New Official List Discussion

[John Milton]

Nice observation! I don’t know why, but I see it’s one of my favorites as well

[Lakigigar]

Have I already mentioned how cool I find the ICM hivemind filmbuff taste?

I think that's partially because when a film gets momentum it gets more visibility or is discussed more about on that place. You see those things appear in the forum lists, it maybe appeared in one, and there are projects like world cup too where it could've appeared. And maybe it appeared in ICM <400 checks before.

[AdamH]

I think this one is a lost film: https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/danse+serpentine/ with people mistakenly checking it instead of https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/dan ... tine-1897/.

Various users from the forum have checked it including: jal90 (favourited it as well), wowwee123, Cinephage, tourdesb etc.

It isn't in the list but can't be far off with 3 faves and 91 checks.

[mjf314]

I think this one is a lost film: https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/danse+serpentine/ with people mistakenly checking it instead of https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/dan ... tine-1897/.

Various users from the forum have checked it including: jal90 (favourited it as well), wowwee123, Cinephage, tourdesb etc.

It isn't in the list but can't be far off with 3 faves and 91 checks.

If you tell jal90 to unfavorite it, that will reduce the chances of it showing up on the list.

[mjf314]

Isn't that unbelievable? How come us check folks love these gems so much and scholars and film historians looked over it?
(There are other cases in the history of <400 if you observe that for a while)

Maybe they just don't watch enough films? Some of them probably rely on the S&S list, and they don't try to seek out other classics.

I could ask the same question about Harakiri. It's close to the top of pretty much every cinephile list, but the critics still haven't discovered it.

[zzzorf]

So now another issue. I was just going to make a list of everything I had seen but haven't checked to make a need to rewatch list just to find that movies I have rated didn't cross over properly. In the end 170 movies won't cross over including some very important checks.

OK so after finding the 170 movies and checking them I have now started to make a list of all the official checks that I have seen previous to my start as a "cinephile' back in July 2016 using Tim's lists. I have done all the movies on at least 3 official lists and am currently sitting at 151 movies. Previously these were all checked before I nuked the account but now I'm trying to decide what I am going to do. I lost a lot of awards yesterday due to me not checking these but I am thinking that I should work on the awards just on my journey and not on my lifetime watching, if that makes sense. What do others do with checks from earlier in their life?

[Torgo]

Isn't that unbelievable? How come us check folks love these gems so much and scholars and film historians looked over it?
(There are other cases in the history of <400 if you observe that for a while)

I could ask the same question about Harakiri. It's close to the top of pretty much every cinephile list, but the critics still haven't discovered it.

This. It's insane how underseen & underrated it is .. outside of the film fan bubble
Very similar with The Human Condition. Not nearly as undervalued, but a bit under the radar given its love on film sites: Come and See

[Fergenaprido]

So now another issue. I was just going to make a list of everything I had seen but haven't checked to make a need to rewatch list just to find that movies I have rated didn't cross over properly. In the end 170 movies won't cross over including some very important checks.

OK so after finding the 170 movies and checking them I have now started to make a list of all the official checks that I have seen previous to my start as a "cinephile' back in July 2016 using Tim's lists. I have done all the movies on at least 3 official lists and am currently sitting at 151 movies. Previously these were all checked before I nuked the account but now I'm trying to decide what I am going to do. I lost a lot of awards yesterday due to me not checking these but I am thinking that I should work on the awards just on my journey and not on my lifetime watching, if that makes sense. What do others do with checks from earlier in their life?

If I've seen a film, I've seen it and it should be checked off, regardless of where I was on my "cinephile journey". Not remembering a lot of the plot, or not being able to appreciate it due to lack of knowledge does not invalidate the fact that I've indeed seen it. I just prioritize for a rewatch. Whether its official or not is immaterial, but that's just me.

[Torgo]

+1

I did an odd thing for a few James Bond movies which I've all seen at some point during my childhood: I checked even most ones where I was skeptical if I 100% saw them because I couldn't remember a single aspect of ANYthing .. got unhappy when seeing them pop up on the Marshall action list, for example; finally did the rewatches one day and unchecked & re-checked the films.

[OldAle1]

Yeah I'm with Ferg and Torgs here for the most part. I started up my current IMDb account in 2006; I had some ratings saved on *gasp* physical paper - notebooks - and started entering all that in, and of course all the movies I was seeing new. Took me a while - and looking at those ratings now, I unaccountably just did a few at first, and waited about a year until late January 2007 to really get going. No memory as to why. Anyway when icheckmovies came along I was all caught up and exported everything there and I've kept up rating and checking since. Occasionally I do run across something that I know for sure I saw and haven't checked or rated - though it's been at least couple of years now. I'll definitely check it if I'm positive I saw it, and if I cannot remember at all how I felt about it and don't have a good sense of how I'd feel now I'll usually rate it 6 on IMDb and, as Ferg say, try to prioritize re-watching it.

But this makes me think of something. I came across a bunch of old calendars my mom had saved, and she sometimes wrote down movies or TV shows - and 99% of the time I saw them also if it was when I still lived with my parents. Haven't gone through those in earnest yet, might be some interesting surprises there.

[xianjiro]

So now another issue. I was just going to make a list of everything I had seen but haven't checked to make a need to rewatch list just to find that movies I have rated didn't cross over properly. In the end 170 movies won't cross over including some very important checks.

OK so after finding the 170 movies and checking them I have now started to make a list of all the official checks that I have seen previous to my start as a "cinephile' back in July 2016 using Tim's lists. I have done all the movies on at least 3 official lists and am currently sitting at 151 movies. Previously these were all checked before I nuked the account but now I'm trying to decide what I am going to do. I lost a lot of awards yesterday due to me not checking these but I am thinking that I should work on the awards just on my journey and not on my lifetime watching, if that makes sense. What do others do with checks from earlier in their life?

If I understand correctly, I don't differentiate in the sense that everything that I've watched since I started rating on IMDb, keeping my spreadsheet, and finally joining iCM are included. I know that a handful of films remembered from my youth got a rating from memory, but that quickly stopped making sense to me. I knew I was rating remembered films too highly, so now I rewatch before I check/rate something seen in my youth. I have only been checking/rating films I've watched after I committed myself to cinema. (Okay, and TV series. I'm not ashamed to admit it.)

Does that answer the question?

[joachimt]

I often already forgot most of some movies I watched a year ago. I watched almost 500 movies last year. How the hell am I supposed to remember all of them after a year? I enjoy movies when I watch them. Some stick, some don't. That doesn't effect me checking it or not.

[Onderhond]

Personally, I try to keep my ratings (on IMDb and other sites) in sync with my checks on ICM, which is why I never bothered with films I watched before I started rating (couldn't rate those in good faith). Of course, in my case I'm talking films I watched more than two decades ago. I just wait for a rewatch before checking them.

I don't see a problem with checking a film you watched long before ICM though, even when you hardly remember anything from the film. You watched it, you can check it. Unless other neuroses interfere

[xianjiro]

So, updated my spreadsheet today with the new lists -- only have platinum on two: 1950s & 1960s. Otherwise, everything from 1930s - 2010s need less than 10 checks to finish. The Pre 1910s was the only new list that I had to watch some films for bronze (and to get my estimated rank below 200). Only need to see two films to finish the new BAFTA list.

edit: oh, I now have 206 awards according to my spreadsheet -- bronze or better though I'm acquiring the new awards as I watch a film from each of the new lists. Had to uncheck/check a film each from 50s and 60s to generate those awards.

[cinephage]

When I joined ICM, I tried to check all the movies I'd seen before, but I know I've forgotten many of them. It took me quite a while to go through all the lists... But then it was done, however bad my memory is.

Currently, anytime I notice a film I know I've seen, but didn't check, I simply check it. Sometimes a film from the 90s becomes official, and I've seen it. It becoming official brings back the memory of having seen that picture, so I check it. That's pretty simple.

[Lakigigar]

I used to rate and check films i didn't finish watching because i didn't like it but that is a long time ago, and I unchecked everything of those years ago, so everything checked and rated is fully seen (unless my memory is bad for a certain film but that is virtually non-existent). ICM also does discourage rewatching films because you have seen something you checked which is part of why i don't watch blockbuster films because i would have to rewatch the first ones again, or because they're unfinished film series and so on. And because when i start watching one, i feel like i have to finish all of them and are bound to something that I don't want to be bound to.

For checking what you remember seeing, there is no issue. I didn't encounter that problem, given i had an ICM account pretty early on. It's impossible to have fresh memories of every film you've seen and I know that opinions might change or that a different mindset could lead to a different viewing experience (which is why i try to fully dedicate to a film i see). As memories fade, some memories can be kind of altered i guess or be seen differently, but that applies to common life experiences as well. And my memories for film is arguably better because everytime you think about a film or see its title, you're reminded of it and have an exact point of rememberance wheras with life memories this is not the case unless you can pinpoint, have strong emotions or feelings to attached it or attach it to something else (which can be learning methods) but otherwise they continue to fade.

Remember on ICM, it's a check feature, you cannot rate something on ICM other than like or dislike. If you've checked it, you checked it.

[John Milton]

I joined IMDb in 2001, and spent quite a bit of time during those first years rating everything I’d seen as a teenager, movies that I still could rate with some confidence, that is. Usually this meant movies I saw in the movie theater, rented or owned on VHS or dvd, or seen multiple times over the years. So the many, many made for tv/based on a true story movies I vaguely remembered having seen between like 9 and 15 years old (but not really whether I liked them), I did not vote on. But from 2001 onwards, I diligently rated everything I watched.

When I joined ICM eleven years later in 2012, it was just a matter of importing my votes and going through some of the bigger lists for the few films that I’d missed. My routine after watching a film now is checking it, and rating it on IMDb, MovieMeter.nl & Letterboxd.

All things considered, I don’t think there are many movies I’ve seen and not checked. But the ones that are, I watched between 1988 and 1994 and are pretty forgettable TV movies.

[Onderhond]

I joined IMDb in 2001, and spent quite a bit of time during those first years rating everything I’d seen as a teenager

I did something similar when I joined MM in 2003 (but on a smaller scale, mostly films I'd seen in the last year or two). I'm still catching up with that list of 100 films (about 50 rewatches to go I believe). They're the only films I've rated and never reviewed, so it's easy to keep track of them. But I'm getting there, a handful of films at a time!

[gunnar]

I started tracking the movies I watched in 2005. I went through that list during the first couple of months after joining ICM and checked those films. I also checked films I'd watched before that as I came across them, though if I wasn't sure that I'd watched it, I left it unchecked. Last year, I went through all of my ticket stubs (which date back to 1986) and added them to the list of movie I'd watched and then checked any films from there that I hadn't checked yet. This led to 100-200 or so more checks. I'm sure there are many more that I've seen because I watched quite a bit of cable tv back in the 1980s. I also worked at a store that had a video rental section and would play movies on a tv in the store each day. I've probably seen many of the kaiju movies, but I don't know for sure which ones. I only occasionally run across one now that I'm certain I watched.

[brokenface]

Have I already mentioned how cool I find the ICM hivemind filmbuff taste?

It often leads me to cases like this, which I haven't seen yet but already gets me excited: Lucky Star (1929)
.. and which always make me wonder: #11 on our 1920s list (a decade where it's rivaling a staggering amount of masterpieces, beloved by cinephiles through the decades). #166 on the overall ICM Favorite list. Also present in the IMDb 1920 list with a pretty good score (7.8), and other than that .. somewhere in the middle of Paul Rotha's 300+ silent list. NOWHERE, I repeat, nowhere to be found in the SilentEra list, a Top 300 dedicated only to this artform. Somewhere in DtC, another 100% fan based internet project. Not. On a. Single. Critics List. (1000 polls, the canonTM and stuff)
Isn't that unbelievable? How come us check folks love these gems so much and scholars and film historians looked over it?
(There are other cases in the history of <400 if you observe that for a while)

I'd say this is a case where it is overshadowed by a predecessor. 7th Heaven was two years earlier, same director, same leading couple, some overlap in plot and tone. Critics are unlikely to find space on a list for two silent Borzage romance-dramas, in most cases if they do pick one it'll be the earlier better known one.

Could cite similar examples of this phenomenon in same era:
Sunrise -> City Girl
Pandora's Box -> Diary of a Lost Girl

Latter films are acclaimed and liked but when it comes to lists, mostly it'll be the first one cited.

I'm sure it repeats in all eras. e.g. I can imagine people in future rediscovering Us as the hidden gem overshadowed by Get Out

[Lakigigar]

I'd say this is a case where it is overshadowed by a predecessor. 7th Heaven was two years earlier, same director, same leading couple, some overlap in plot and tone. Critics are unlikely to find space on a list for two silent Borzage romance-dramas, in most cases if they do pick one it'll be the earlier better known one.

Could cite similar examples of this phenomenon in same era:
Sunrise -> City Girl
Pandora's Box -> Diary of a Lost Girl

Latter films are acclaimed and liked but when it comes to lists, mostly it'll be the first one cited.

I'm sure it repeats in all eras. e.g. I can imagine people in future rediscovering Us as the hidden gem overshadowed by Get Out

That's very true, one example is About Elly which is overshadowed by A Separation in critics list, but well loved in some internet communities, incl. ICM. It's 25th in the 2000s forum poll and ICM 250 Most Favorited, made the new ICM 2000s list, while also appearing in Fok top 250 (another forum list) as 56th best film of all-time by users on that forum board but outside of that never appears in a critics list, except for the Iranian one. About Elly on fok top 250 is even ranked higher than A Separation.

However A Separation is 17th in the TSPDT 21st century list while About Elly is not even in the top 1000.

[Knaldskalle]

I actually have the french blu-ray of Lucky Star, but I wish I had Street Angel instead. That's my favorite silent Borzage. Now OOP and really expensive. Oh well.

[OldAle1]

Count me as a Lucky Star fan, at the moment I'd pick it as Borzage's best, though I do like 7th Heaven almost as much, and Lazybones is criminally underrated. I really need to go back and watch all of them again though, and most of his other films that I've seen, and catch up to the dozen others that are available that I never bothered with.

[kongs_speech]

Haven't seen Lucky Star. Sure as hell haven't wished upon one either.

[Tim2460]

Seems to me the new iCM decade lists are updated Daily right ?

Pre-1910 just changed by more than 10 % ...

[Fergenaprido]

Seems to me the new iCM decade lists are updated Daily right ?

Pre-1910 just changed by more than 10 % ...

No, Monday and Thursday is the regular auto-update schedule as far as I know, which checks out with the two most recent Notifications I received: Jan 2 & Jan 5.

[Lakigigar]

Whisper of the Heart entered the 1990s list. Which one left that one?

One problem I noticed with the 2010s list is that the declining user base on ICM seems to have an impact on that list.

31 films are from the second half of the 2010s: 2015-2019 (which should be around 50%)
22 films are from 2016-2019 (which should be around 40%)
13 films are from the last three years 2017-2019 (this should be 30%)
6 films are from the last two years (which should be 20%)
2 films are from 2019 (which should be 10%)

14 films from 2010
14 films from 2011
14 films from 2012
12 films from 2013
15 films from 2014
9 films from 2015
8 films from 2016
7 films from 2017
4 films from 2018
2 films from 2019

I don't think that the first half was much better than the second half, but because of the declining user base and the weight given to more seen films, the second part is at a notable and clear disadvantage, which causes an inequal list, and i think it's on the problematic side.

And quite a lot of films from the second part are also in danger like Mustang (2015), The Lobster (2015), O.J. Made in America (2016), Paterson (2016), Coco (2017), Burning (2018), The Night is Short, Walk on Girl (2017), while I also expected a film like Get Out to be a lot higher than the 75th spot.

Maybe people are becoming more picky with their likes, or maybe it reflects people more less enthusiastic about film on the site, but you don't tell me that the first 5 years all were like at least 50% better years than all what would follow. Especially only 2 films for 2019 (or 4 from 2018) is frankly embarrassing. What makes it even more painful is that 2020-2022 get their own list (for 100 films), making it very unbalanced (even if that would be fixed in 6-7 years from now and improve in the meantime, while giving those films visibility).

[AdamH]

Seems to me the new iCM decade lists are updated Daily right ?

Pre-1910 just changed by more than 10 % ...

It will change a lot early on until films get more checks and it should settle down a bit over time. I don't think you'll get big changes like this after a couple of months. Every new film gets a lot more checks. The more checks, the more stable the favourites ratio will be.

[Lakigigar]

That's true, 1910s also is somewhat vulnerable, less tho than pre-1910s and so is 2020s but outside of that, most lists are relatively stable, the more well known and popular the films in a decades list are, the more stable it is.

[Tim2460]

Problem for me is that if an Official Film enters my Excel File and i collect an file for it ... it stays for good.
I don't really need all the pré-1910 short collected...

Let's hope this will settle down a little then : that's some work keeping up right now.

[Tasselfoot]

Problem for me is that if an Official Film enters my Excel File and i collect an file for it ... it stays for good.
I don't really need all the pré-1910 short collected...

Let's hope this will settle down a little then : that's some work keeping up right now.

I mean... how many pre-1910s shorts can there be, right? Right?

edit: iCM has a bit over 11,000 entries dated 1874-1909. Lol.

[AdamH]

One user went and favourited every single pre-1910s film that fell off the list all at the same time (not after watching them). Obviously trying to keep the checks official by faking favourites. Hmm...

[Torgo]

Problem for me is that if an Official Film enters my Excel File and i collect an file for it ... it stays for good.
I don't really need all the pré-1910 short collected...

Let's hope this will settle down a little then : that's some work keeping up right now.

I mean... how many pre-1910s shorts can there be, right? Right?

edit: iCM has a bit over 11,000 entries dated 1874-1909. Lol.

Oh wow!

[zuma]

And only 9400 of them are solely focused on objects/people suddenly disappearing or reappearing.

[Tasselfoot]

One user went and favourited every single pre-1910s film that fell off the list all at the same time (not after watching them). Obviously trying to keep the checks official by faking favourites. Hmm...

I was thinking about that... especially on the pre-1910 list. 1 person could make a bunch of alt accounts and favorite 100 specific films to pretty much solidify the list. Could probably do it in an hour; two tops.

[AdamH]

One user went and favourited every single pre-1910s film that fell off the list all at the same time (not after watching them). Obviously trying to keep the checks official by faking favourites. Hmm...

I was thinking about that... especially on the pre-1910 list. 1 person could make a bunch of alt accounts and favorite 100 specific films to pretty much solidify the list. Could probably do it in an hour; two tops.

I think it would be noticed by people if that happened although it's not that hard to spot. I noticed that someone was favouriting all the drop-offs just because I went onto the page of a couple of them and saw that the same user had favourited them at the exact same time. User is jlfitz. Not sure if he's on here but 100% he is deliberately favouriting the drop-offs to try to get them back in as he favourited them all at the exact same time. It's frustrating.

[Torgo]

Or maybe .. it's often you realize how dear something is to you the moment it vanishes.


(Yeah I doubt that )

especially on the pre-1910 list. 1 person could make a bunch of alt accounts and favorite 100 specific films to pretty much solidify the list. Could probably do it in an hour; two tops.

That surely would be a problem for a site not on its deathb... I mean, we would probably take notice of that.

I'd wonder if we can assemble worthwhile Top 100s for both the 1910s and Pre-1910 .. if I were king of the site, I probably would've left those at Top 50 each (because merging them to one Top 100 could possibly hurt the 1910 feature films ). But I am not; not the jester even.

[xianjiro]

One user went and favourited every single pre-1910s film that fell off the list all at the same time (not after watching them). Obviously trying to keep the checks official by faking favourites. Hmm...

I was thinking about that... especially on the pre-1910 list. 1 person could make a bunch of alt accounts and favorite 100 specific films to pretty much solidify the list. Could probably do it in an hour; two tops.

I think it would be noticed by people if that happened although it's not that hard to spot. I noticed that someone was favouriting all the drop-offs just because I went onto the page of a couple of them and saw that the same user had favourited them at the exact same time. User is jlfitz. Not sure if he's on here but 100% he is deliberately favouriting the drop-offs to try to get them back in as he favourited them all at the exact same time. It's frustrating.

and so it begins ...

I was a bit disappointed when I saw that films with a handful of favorites would become official on a volatile list. Can't say I'm surprised someone would be gaming the gamification. If this continues, those lists effected should be locked/only updated twice a month max. Granted, that won't stop attempted manipulation, but will give the rest of of us time to see things.

[AdamH]

I was thinking about that... especially on the pre-1910 list. 1 person could make a bunch of alt accounts and favorite 100 specific films to pretty much solidify the list. Could probably do it in an hour; two tops.

I think it would be noticed by people if that happened although it's not that hard to spot. I noticed that someone was favouriting all the drop-offs just because I went onto the page of a couple of them and saw that the same user had favourited them at the exact same time. User is jlfitz. Not sure if he's on here but 100% he is deliberately favouriting the drop-offs to try to get them back in as he favourited them all at the exact same time. It's frustrating.

and so it begins ...

I was a bit disappointed when I saw that films with a handful of favorites would become official on a volatile list. Can't say I'm surprised someone would be gaming the gamification. If this continues, those lists effected should be locked/only updated twice a month max. Granted, that won't stop attempted manipulation, but will give the rest of of us time to see things.

I'm pretty certain it will settle down after a couple of months. There's a limit to how many shorts can enter the list. What will happen is the same shorts (plus a tiny number of new ones) will keep entering/re-entering and get more checks and favourites and then the gap to the non-official shorts will get bigger and bigger. What jlfitz is doing simply makes it harder for the non-list films to get in. It's worth noting that, whilst 12 new shorts entered the list on the last update, at least a couple of them were re-entering. I think a high percentage of the changes will be films re-entering rather than brand new shorts.

[xianjiro]

I think it would be noticed by people if that happened although it's not that hard to spot. I noticed that someone was favouriting all the drop-offs just because I went onto the page of a couple of them and saw that the same user had favourited them at the exact same time. User is jlfitz. Not sure if he's on here but 100% he is deliberately favouriting the drop-offs to try to get them back in as he favourited them all at the exact same time. It's frustrating.

and so it begins ...

I was a bit disappointed when I saw that films with a handful of favorites would become official on a volatile list. Can't say I'm surprised someone would be gaming the gamification. If this continues, those lists effected should be locked/only updated twice a month max. Granted, that won't stop attempted manipulation, but will give the rest of of us time to see things.

I'm pretty certain it will settle down after a couple of months. There's a limit to how many shorts can enter the list. What will happen is the same shorts (plus a tiny number of new ones) will keep entering/re-entering and get more checks and favourites and then the gap to the non-official shorts will get bigger and bigger. What jlfitz is doing simply makes it harder for the non-list films to get in. It's worth noting that, whilst 12 new shorts entered the list on the last update, at least a couple of them were re-entering. I think a high percentage of the changes will be films re-entering rather than brand new shorts.

hope you're right, but we do have a few people on the site whose motives are less than honorable. Will see. Certainly less interesting right now than the Speaker of the House circus.