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World Cup S4: Round 1 schedule, 1A: Canada vs England vs Estonia vs Iran (Dec 29th)

World Cup, Season 4, Match 1A: Canada vs England vs Estonia vs Iran (Dec 29th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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World Cup, Season 4, Match 1A: Canada vs England vs Estonia vs Iran (Dec 29th)

#1

Post by joachimt » December 1st, 2019, 9:32 am

This is match 1A of the fourth season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
CanadaWhy Shoot the Teacher?1977sollinklink
EnglandKajaki2014filmbanthalinklink
EstoniaRisttuulesIn the Crosswind2014jvvlinklink
IranBashu, gharibeye koochakBashu, the Little Stranger1989Nathan Treadwaylinklink

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Why Shoot the Teacher?
Image

Kajaki
Image

Risttuules
Image

Bashu, gharibeye koochak
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 4 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 4 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Dec 29th
Countdown till deadline

The countries that end at 1st and 2nd place proceed to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Ranked by highest average ranking (= lowest number).
- In case of a tie between two movies, head-to-head determines the winner (how many people thought A>B and how many thought B>A).
- In case there's still a tie after the previous rule or there is a tie between three or four movies, most #1-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? Fewest #4-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? The match will have a 3 day extension (except when the tie is only between #3 and #4).
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament worksShow
We start with 32 films from 32 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 8 groups of 4. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 16 remaining countries will be divided into 8 matches of 2. The managers pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.
iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons
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#2

Post by Mario Gaborović » December 1st, 2019, 9:43 am

1. Risttuules
2. Why Shoot the Teacher?
3. Bashu, gharibeye koochak
4. Kajaki

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#3

Post by Armoreska » December 2nd, 2019, 3:59 am

Some English-speaking country is going home. Estonia will be hard to beat (and off to a flying start).
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#4

Post by Gershwin » December 2nd, 2019, 8:40 am

Ah, so it's on! I'll try to watch everything, but I rarely watch more than one film a week, so let's see how far I get.
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#5

Post by 72aicm » December 3rd, 2019, 7:36 pm

1. Kajaki
2. Why Shoot the Teacher?
3. Bashu, gharibeye koochak
4. Risttuules
Last edited by 72aicm on December 5th, 2019, 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#6

Post by hurluberlu » December 4th, 2019, 8:16 pm

1. Kajaki 7
2. Bashu, gharibeye koochak 7-
3. Risttuules 6+
4. Why Shoot the Teacher? 6-
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#7

Post by Cocoa » December 5th, 2019, 1:16 am

1. Risttuules 7/10
2. Bashu, gharibeye koochak 5/10
3. Kajaki 4/10
4. Why Shoot the Teacher? 3/10

Risttuules:
This film is like watching a playthrough of the Oregon Trail except that it takes place on another continent, in another time, and the reason why they're traveling is different. Honestly, the comparison wasn't in my mind until I saw the word "dysentery" appear in the subtitle while I was watching the film. I got teary eyed at the end :( My main complaint about the film is the pacing. Sometimes it seems too fast and sometimes it seems too slow. Besides the mixed pacing, it's a great film that I love!

Bashu:
An average (not bad, but not magnificent) film about a boy with a not so great life. I only have it ranked second not because of how much I enjoyed the film, but because of how much I disliked watching the two films I ranked below it.

Kajaki:
SpoilerShow
When you're watching a film...waiting for a guy to die so the story can progress...but it turns out that the guy being injured is the story and the film ends when he's rescued...ugh. Would have been a better film if the characters were actually likable. So much random cursing while talking on the radio (I don't have a problem with cursing while a person does unofficial stuff). The guy cutting the injured person off (when the injured person was telling him what to say to his wife if he's die). If the movie was trying to get me to hate the crew, then congrats, but seeing as the film used a sad song at the end credits of the film makes me think I was supposed to feel sympathy for the crew and love them (something the film failed to make me feel).

Why Shoot the Teacher?:
When watching a bad movie based off a book that you haven't read, it's sometimes hard to know who should get the blame for the horribleness of the film. The film came off as pretentious and fake. So many unnecessary, out-of-place weird quickly spoken lines by one scene(/minor) characters as if those lines were maybe in the book but I don't know (as I haven't read the book) so I don't know who to hate more for the production of this film. This film was directed like a poorly made horror film but without the gore and nudity. When I looked at the director, Silvio Narizzano, I wasn't surprised that it was someone who has directed a horror movie before. This is the fourth movie of his that I've seen. I loved Georgy Girl (1966) and apparently thought that the other two films of his I saw [Fanatic (1965) and Las flores del vicio (1979)] were decent at best but they're forgettable to me. Strange that he directed a Canadian film when all the other films of his that I've seen have been European films.

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#8

Post by Cocoa » December 5th, 2019, 1:25 am

With four films being ranked, I wonder how long it will be before(/how long it will take for) two people post the same order.

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#9

Post by Mate_cosido » December 5th, 2019, 3:29 pm

1. Bashu, gharibeye koochak


2. Risttuules
3. Kajaki
4. Why Shoot the Teacher?

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#10

Post by Mario Gaborović » December 5th, 2019, 6:21 pm

1. Image Bashu, gharibeye koochak: 9-6
2. Image Risttuules: 9-6
3. Image Kajaki: 8-7
4. Image Why Shoot the Teacher?: 4-11

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#11

Post by joachimt » December 6th, 2019, 5:55 am

Double checking my spreadsheet with Mario's:

Image Bashu, gharibeye koochak: 2.2 (9-6)
Image Risttuules: 2.2 (9-6)
Image Kajaki: 2.4 (8-7)
Image Why Shoot the Teacher?: 3.2 (4-11)

Head-to-head on #1 and #2
Image Risttuules - Image Bashu, gharibeye koochak: 2 - 3
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#12

Post by joachimt » December 6th, 2019, 3:29 pm

1. Risttuules 9/10 :wub:
2. Bashu, gharibeye koochak 7+/10 :thumbsup:
3. Kajaki 7/10 :)
4. Why Shoot the Teacher? 6-/10 :think:
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#13

Post by joachimt » December 7th, 2019, 8:17 am

I just added some columns to my spreadsheet to make a graph like this. It shows average ranking after each vote.

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#14

Post by hurluberlu » December 7th, 2019, 9:17 am

Talking about statistics, voting looks super slow compared to first match of Season 3...
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#15

Post by joachimt » December 7th, 2019, 9:31 am

hurluberlu wrote:
December 7th, 2019, 9:17 am
Talking about statistics, voting looks super slow compared to first match of Season 3...
I think a lot of people had yet to see all four of these movies.
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#16

Post by Armoreska » December 7th, 2019, 2:13 pm

All the movies have already been #1 overall based on the graph, and only Iran has never been the sole #1, yet experiences a steady climb.
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currently working towards a vegan/low waste world + thru such film lists (besides TV): 2010s bests, RW Fassbinder, Luis Bunuel, Yasujiro Ozu, Eric Rohmer, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#17

Post by klaus78 » December 7th, 2019, 10:15 pm

1. Risttuules (Estonia) 8/10
2. Why Shoot the Teacher? (Canada) 7/10
3. Bashu, gharibeye koochak (Iran) 7/10
4. Kajaki (England) 6/10
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#18

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 7th, 2019, 11:06 pm

Cocoa wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 1:25 am
With four films being ranked, I wonder how long it will be before(/how long it will take for) two people post the same order.
Klaus just copied Mario's rankings, I think that's the first identical rankings thus far?

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#19

Post by Smoover » December 8th, 2019, 1:22 pm

1. Bashu, gharibeye koochak (Iran) 7.5/10
2. Risttuules (Estonia) 7/10
3. Kajaki (England) 6.5/10
4. Why Shoot the Teacher? (Canada) 6/10

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#20

Post by joachimt » December 8th, 2019, 5:55 pm

Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 7th, 2019, 11:06 pm
Cocoa wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 1:25 am
With four films being ranked, I wonder how long it will be before(/how long it will take for) two people post the same order.
Klaus just copied Mario's rankings, I think that's the first identical rankings thus far?
So far these three orders have been posted twice:
England-Iran-Canada-Estonia
Iran-Estonia-Canada-England
Iran-Estonia-England-Canada
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#21

Post by joachimt » December 8th, 2019, 5:56 pm

Wait, need to check my calculations......
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#22

Post by joachimt » December 8th, 2019, 6:09 pm

This is correct. These are the orders that have been posted twice so far.
Estonia-Canada-Iran-England
Estonia-Iran-England-Canada
Iran-Estonia-England-Canada
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#23

Post by Nathan Treadway » December 8th, 2019, 6:26 pm

Next question: Who's going to be the first manager from this round to vote? It probably won't be me, as I'm in the middle of another project, and probably won't get to the three I haven't seen yet until after Christmas.

filmbantha has seen all four of them. sol, jvv and I have only seen the ones we've nominated.

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#24

Post by Cinepolis » December 8th, 2019, 7:30 pm

1. Risttuules
2. Kajaki
3. Bashu, gharibeye koochak
4. Why Shoot the Teacher?

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#25

Post by tarr » December 8th, 2019, 7:49 pm

1. Bashu, gharibeye koochak
2. Risttuules
3. Why Shoot the Teacher?
4. Kajaki

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#26

Post by zuma » December 8th, 2019, 10:10 pm

01 - Risttuules (Estonia)

02 - Why Shoot the Teacher? (Canada)

03 - Kajaki (England)

04 - Bashu, gharibeye koochak (Iran)

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#27

Post by kingink » Yesterday, 8:20 am

1. Risttuules 8/10 The extensive use of tableau vivant (that's what it's called. You learn new things every day!) was very refressing for me. Otherwise it would be another foreign oscar-bait. It would be probably a nice movie if it was directed in a more conventional way, but I think the story wasn't that original or strong, so this directing style really gave a push in the ratings for me.
2. Bashu, gharibeye koochak 8/10 Another good Iranian movie, like the ones they know how to make.
3. Kajaki 7/10 Not bad at all, but it felt like it lacked character for the most part. I wasn't relly engaged in the story.
4. Why Shoot the Teacher? 3/10 :whistling: What can I say? An utterly pointless and irritatingly amateurish movie... Sorry... tehe

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#28

Post by joachimt » Yesterday, 10:26 am

I wonder if it's necessary to continue this match. :whistling:

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#29

Post by jvv » Yesterday, 11:21 am

joachimt wrote:
Yesterday, 10:26 am
I wonder if it's necessary to continue this match. :whistling:
Of course it's necessary. We haven't even got half of the (expected number of) voters.

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I know you were joking. :D

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#30

Post by sol » Yesterday, 1:42 pm

jvv wrote:
Yesterday, 11:21 am
joachimt wrote:
Yesterday, 10:26 am
I wonder if it's necessary to continue this match. :whistling:
Of course it's necessary. We haven't even got half of the (expected number of) voters.

SpoilerShow
I know you were joking. :D
Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 8th, 2019, 6:26 pm
Next question: Who's going to be the first manager from this round to vote? It probably won't be me, as I'm in the middle of another project, and probably won't get to the three I haven't seen yet until after Christmas.

filmbantha has seen all four of them. sol, jvv and I have only seen the ones we've nominated.
I might as well put it out there that I am probably not going to participate. I have been going through a challenging period at work lately that is taking a significant emotional toll on me and reading through this thread is not helping my depression.
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#31

Post by Mario Gaborović » Yesterday, 1:55 pm

sol wrote:
Yesterday, 1:42 pm
jvv wrote:
Yesterday, 11:21 am
joachimt wrote:
Yesterday, 10:26 am
I wonder if it's necessary to continue this match. :whistling:
Of course it's necessary. We haven't even got half of the (expected number of) voters.

SpoilerShow
I know you were joking. :D
Nathan Treadway wrote:
December 8th, 2019, 6:26 pm
Next question: Who's going to be the first manager from this round to vote? It probably won't be me, as I'm in the middle of another project, and probably won't get to the three I haven't seen yet until after Christmas.

filmbantha has seen all four of them. sol, jvv and I have only seen the ones we've nominated.
I might as well put it out there that I am probably not going to participate. I have been going through a challenging period at work lately that is taking a significant emotional toll on me and reading through this thread is not helping my depression.
Actually you never participated at all. Not one time. Unless you changed nickname.

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#32

Post by sol » Yesterday, 2:11 pm

Mario Gaborović wrote:
Yesterday, 1:55 pm
Actually you never participated at all. Not one time. Unless you changed nickname.
Sorry - I posted that under the assumption that country managers were expected to participate. If they are not that's fine; it's easier not to add to a thread that it is making me feel more down than I already am if I am not expected to.... so thanks for that.
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#33

Post by joachimt » Yesterday, 2:18 pm

Don't feel down because your movie is losing. I sucked at this game too as a manager. ;)
And indeed you are certainly not expected to participate if you're a manager. Nobody is. We only hope for people to participate, but everyone is free to choose.
Take care of yourself! That's much more important than movies. :hug:
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#34

Post by Armoreska » Yesterday, 3:23 pm

Dont shoot the manager
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#35

Post by kingink » Yesterday, 5:49 pm

sol wrote:
Yesterday, 1:42 pm
I might as well put it out there that I am probably not going to participate. I have been going through a challenging period at work lately that is taking a significant emotional toll on me and reading through this thread is not helping my depression.
Oh Sol... :hug:
Of course you don't have to participate if you don't want. Don't think about it. And you should certainly not even blink an eye just because some of us ass****s don't like the movie you chose. We blame the director :lol:
As my dear friend Joachim said, just take care of yourself and have fun with this forum.
And don't be afraid to call me out for my 3 B) :whistling:
Best wishes

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#36

Post by Mario Gaborović » Yesterday, 6:48 pm

I wish I'm there to hug you, sol... (not being cynical at all)

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#37

Post by filmbantha » Yesterday, 8:30 pm

1. Kajaki 8/10 - This debut feature from Paul Katis offers an incredibly intense and visceral depiction of the horrors of war and is a personal favourite of mine that I hoped would strike a chord with others as much as it did with me. I will be disappointed if England flounder at the first round but at the very least I'm hoping Kajaki might benefit from a nudge in the right direction for next year's 500<400. Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to watch it so far, and I hope it wasn't too painful for those who haven't enjoyed it B)

2. Bashu, gharibeye koochak 7/10 - A fascinating tale of a young boy trying to survive in war torn Iran. I would suggest visiting the film's IMDB trivia page after watching it as there is some useful information about certain elements of the storyline that would have passed me by had I not read about them.

3. Risttuules 6/10 - I was initially awestruck by the unconventional tableaux style cinematography but the narrative felt distant and the film failed to resonate with me on an emotional level, despite the harrowing subject matter which is something I would usually be captivated by. It's a beautiful work of art and I can certainly appreciate why it is performing well in this matchup, even if it seemed like a missed opportunity that falls short of greatness.

4. Why shoot the teacher 5/10 - I enjoy reading Sol's reviews on the forum and our tastes appear quite similar but sadly this film just didn't work for me. I was intrigued by the opening scenes and curious about the peculiar setting although this eventually gave way to ambivalence as the film progressed.

Don't be disheartened if your film doesn't do as well as you had hoped Sol. It can be tricky picking film's for the WC, there are such a diverse group of film fans on here that you are rarely going to please everyone. It's fun to progress to later rounds but it is just as rewarding discovering new favourites from other people's selections if you get the time to watch them. Even if your chosen film only acquires a handful of new fans you can still consider your selection a worthwhile endeavour. :)

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#38

Post by blocho » Yesterday, 8:52 pm

One of the strongest rounds of the World Cup I've seen. Even the movies I put third and fourth had redeeming qualities.

Comments in the spoiler:
SpoilerShow
Risttuules
I've never seen a movie quite like this. I've seen a few that relied on tableaux vivants like this movie, but none with the peculiar technique where the camera inhabits, examines, and travels through the tableaux. Not to mention the strange rule that people were motionless but objects still moved with the forces of nature (when wind blew clothing, for example). The effect at first was off-putting, then intriguing, and eventually blended perfectly with the narrative of the movie.

Kajaki
With a torturous sense of tension born from its realism, this is a war movie that is sometimes bracingly difficult to watch. The first half had me on a razor's edge of anticipation and dread. I wonder, though, if that realism makes the narrative lose focus in the second half.

Why Shoot the Teacher?
This somewhat successful dramedy seemed almost purposefully designed to awaken the trauma from my own years as a teacher. My time as a teacher was the most upsetting and most unsuccessful period of my life, and I can only be thankful that I faced challenges that, though formidable, were not so brutal and insuperable as those faced by the protagonist in this movie. Bud Cort was 28 or so when he made this movie, but in the early scenes I thought he looked like he was about 18. Sending a young man like that, with minimal training, into such a scenario is a disaster, although I was amused that the main impediment to his efforts was identical to what most impeded my teaching efforts: Students who don't give a shit and are willing to disrupt all learning because they also don't give a shit about anyone else learning either. The historical lesson is an important one. I can't speak for Canada, but in the United States the public conversation around education is always one of decline and alarmism. The actual truth is that if people don't like the way education is now (and they shouldn't), then I bet they would scarcely be able to believe what public education was like 30 or 60 or 90 years ago. Anyway, I'm rambling. My main objection to the movie was that the comedic bits didn't work as well as intended, and the attempt to blend comedy with drama was inconsistent. That last line will stay with me. I was a stubborn teacher too, and kept going back for more punishment. There can be a lot of value in quitting.

Bashu, the Little Stranger
I don't know how the filmmakers managed to make a movie that is such a broad indictment of Iranian society in the middle of the Iran-Iraq War, but I'm impressed with their determination to make their critique. Unfortunately, I think the filmmaking takes second place behind the message, and the result is a story that feels hackneyed and predictable.
1. Risttuules (Estonia)
2. Kajaki (UK)
3. Why Shoot the Teacher (Canada)
4. Bashu, the Little Stranger (Iran)

I just want to add my voice to those of others, Sol. My World Cup picks usually are not popular, so I can sympathize, but the truth is you did not do poorly. Very few people do. As long as you picked a movie you cared about and that you thought other people would care about, then you did well. I am glad I saw the movie you chose. And other people are too.
Last edited by blocho on December 9th, 2019, 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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burneyfan
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#39

Post by burneyfan » Yesterday, 8:59 pm

blocho wrote:
Yesterday, 8:52 pm
I am glad I saw the movie you chose. And other people are too.
I heartily agree, sol -- I liked Why Shoot the Teacher? quite a bit -- the black humor was great. It has the unfortunate situation of competing against one of my favorites (Bashu). I haven't seen the other two films yet (and I haven't rewatched Bashu yet, either), so I don't know how all the rankings will fall out yet, but I'm really happy that I saw your film!

The only piece of (completely unsolicited!) advice I can offer as far as the overwhelming and depressive feelings go is: just take one small step at a time, and be very, very nice to yourself. :hug:

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