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2024 Challenges: Decade Challenges Discussion

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gunnar
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2024 Challenges: Decade Challenges Discussion

#1

Post by gunnar »

Back in June during the 1970s Challenge, adding decade challenges on a rotational basis was discussed. This could be done in a similar way to the genre challenges. I want to use this thread to hear what others think of this idea and how to implement it if it is decided that we want to go through with it.

Options that I've thought of include

1) Having decade challenges from 1930s-2010s on a three year rotation

If we decided to do that, it might look something like this:

2024 - 1930s, 1960s, 2000s
2025 - 1940s, 1980s, 2010s
2026 - 1950s, 1970s, 1990s

Since the 1970s and 1990s are the most recent decade challenges that were held, I put them in the third year. If they were added in this fashion, this would cut down the number of available slots by 3 each year. 1920s and earlier are mostly covered by the Silent Era challenge, except for a few stray 1920s sound films which could be allowed in the 1930s challenge if the host was so inclined. It also leaves out 2020s, though that could be run as a write in like the New Releases Challenge.

or if we wanted to just keep them 30 years apart, we could go:

2024 - 1950s, 1980s, 2010s
2025 - 1930s, 1960s, 1990s
2026 - 1940s, 1970s, 2000s

or some variation on that

The downside would be 3 fewer slots for new or other ideas.

2) Having decade challenges on a 5 year cycle

It might look like this:

2024 - 1960s, 2010s
2025 - 1950s, 2000s
2026 - 1940s, 1990s
2027 - 1930s, 1980s
2028 - 1970s, 2020s

A downside for this would be the length of time that it would take to cycle through all of the decades. Who knows how things will have changed by 2028.


3) Having decade challenges on a 4 year cycle

It might look like this:

2024 - 1960s, 2000s
2025 - 1950s, 1980s, 2010s
2026 - 1940s, 1990s
2027 - 1930s, 1970s, 2020s

This could be seen as a compromise between options 1 and 2. It would be 2 challenges in some years and 3 challenges in others.


4) Having challenges which include multiple decades, either consecutive decades or not.

example:

2024 - 1930s and 1940s, 2000s and 2010s
2025 - 1950s and 1960s, 1980s and 1990s
2026 - 1970s and 2020s, 1930s and 1940s

5) Don't implement the decades on a rotational basis at all. Keep them as write in challenges only and let people decide on a year to year basis which challenges they want to hold.

This would maintain the status quo.


If we do decide to implement these on a rotational basis, we could also wait until the 2025 challenges to implement them and keep them as write in candidates for 2024.


Any thoughts or other suggestions?

--edited to add in a new option #3
Last edited by gunnar on September 23rd, 2023, 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#2

Post by Silga »

I would support 2nd option. I wanted to suggest having two decade challenges per season. That would keep more spots open for voting other ideas.
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#3

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

I am very much on the same page as Silga. I would love two decade challenges per year. I think three slots may be too many, and detract from new options.
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#4

Post by cinephage »

I usually enjoy the decade challenges, and I'm not too keen on new options, so I would favor your first proposal. Furthermore, 5 years to cover all the decades seems much too long for me.
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#5

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

I can smell a poll coming on.
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#6

Post by gunnar »

I figured I would add a poll after time for discussion and any other suggestions/ideas that crop up.

I lean toward the first option since I agree with cinephage that 5 years seems like a long time to cover all of the decades.
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#7

Post by shugs »

I'm also leaning towards the first option.
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#8

Post by gunnar »

I added in a new option #3 which would have decade challenges run on a 4 year cycle.
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#9

Post by OldAle1 »

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I don't like the decade challenges at all and so will vote 5, since "no, decade challenges are stupid, are you kidding?" isn't an option.
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#10

Post by gunnar »

OldAle1 wrote: September 23rd, 2023, 10:06 am I know I'm in the minority on this one, but I don't like the decade challenges at all and so will vote 5, since "no, decade challenges are stupid, are you kidding?" isn't an option.
There are probably others who feel like you do so thanks for sharing your opinion. All input is welcome.
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#11

Post by sortile9io »

I can understand the benefits in the use of a rotational basis: It simplifies the yearly scheduling and guarantees that everybody will get their favourite decade sooner or later regardless of the interest of the rest of people (although I'm horrified by the idea of having to wait up to four years for it!).

But it leaves even less room for fresh/different ideas (only 6-7 free slots, if I'm not wrong). Should we discard proposals with a fair number of votes so that a decade challenge with less interest can be run? What if people just want to do 1970s twice in a row? I guess there are not single correct answers but I quite like the idea of having the freedom to choose every year. So I would choose option 5 (the same goes for the other two rotational plans: major genres and geography).
Last edited by sortile9io on September 23rd, 2023, 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#12

Post by St. Gloede »

I don't have a strong opinion as I rarely participate in the decade challenges. I would lean towards:

5

As that leaves more potential spots to more creative/different challenges.

Putting decades together into eras is also not a bad idea (4).
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#13

Post by Tngy »

My choice would be option 3 here. I enjoyed the last decade challenge and 2 to 3 decade challenges a year would be perfect. :)
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#14

Post by blocho »

Personally, I like decade challenges. I would vote to add them, but ...

If decade challenges are added on a rotational basis, I think it should begin in 2025 because we already established the basis that the 9 currently undetermined challenges for next year are up for nomination and voting.

Of course, some of those 9 challenges could be decade challenges, and I think it would be a good test to see if any decade challenges get enough votes for 2024. Last year, a bunch of decade challenges were nominated, but only one (1970s) made the cut in voting, which makes me wonder whether these challenges are really popular enough to become part of a regular rotation.
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#15

Post by St. Gloede »

blocho wrote: September 23rd, 2023, 2:13 pm Personally, I like decade challenges. I would vote to add them, but ...

If decade challenges are added on a rotational basis, I think it should begin in 2025 because we already established the basis that the 9 currently undetermined challenges for next year are up for nomination and voting.

Of course, some of those 9 challenges could be decade challenges, and I think it would be a good test to see if any decade challenges get enough votes for 2024. Last year, a bunch of decade challenges were nominated, but only one (1970s) made the cut in voting, which makes me wonder whether these challenges are really popular enough to become part of a regular rotation.
Very good point, Blocho.
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#16

Post by peeptoad »

I like the decade challenges, but I don't have a strong opinion about whether or not they become part of the standard rotation. I agree with you, blocho, that using 2024 as the acid test to see if they are popular enough would be a good idea (esp. given that it would overlap with what is already in progress for 2024).
Having said that I'll suggest one of the decades as a voting option, since I had suggested one last year that didn't make the cut.
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#17

Post by jdidaco »

I love the decade challenges, and I would vote for options 1-3. The current challenge ideas (the last two, three years, precisely) have left very little opportunities to explore films from the 30s or 40s, so I would push these decades upfront. Yes, the rotation would limit options for new challenge possibilities, but I remember someone saying how conservative and traditional icmers are about really new ideas - I don't think I can go for another TSPDT, Criterion, 1000<400, Sight & Sound, Oscars and such. Let's use the spots for some really different things then (I like some of the ideas already mentioned in the other thread).
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#18

Post by gunnar »

I decided to go ahead and run a poll and see what the numbers look like from those who care to cast a vote. If the support is there, we would still need to decide what that rotation would look like, though that could wait until later since it is too late to change the process this year anyway. If the support is not there, then at least we will know and can continue with things as they are.
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#19

Post by St. Gloede »

gunnar wrote: September 24th, 2023, 11:31 pm I decided to go ahead and run a poll and see what the numbers look like from those who care to cast a vote. If the support is there, we would still need to decide what that rotation would look like, though that could wait until later since it is too late to change the process this year anyway. If the support is not there, then at least we will know and can continue with things as they are.
The link: viewtopic.php?p=825046#p825046

(In case the poll disappears from active topics).
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#20

Post by gunnar »

St. Gloede wrote: September 25th, 2023, 10:30 am
The link: viewtopic.php?p=825046#p825046

(In case the poll disappears from active topics).
Thanks!
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#21

Post by Minkin »

Whenever we add in the decades - perhaps for the first year, we can just do it twice - to see how it goes - rather than go all in @3?

I like the idea of decades, but I think I'd prefer them over some of the rotating genres (do we honestly need to do Mystery, Thriller, and Crime (isn't Noir close enough??) each every year?)?

Are the genres not on the table - because the more I think about, the more silly it sounds to have those four genres count separately - whereas decades are a lot more interesting? important? whatever the English word, than those.
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#22

Post by gunnar »

If we end up with enough support for adding decades, how we implement it in 2025 would definitely be something that we would need to discuss, though I would wait and see if any of the decade challenges make the 2024 schedule first. One of the options that I thought of for the decade challenge discussion thread was to have 2 challenges one year, 3 challenges the next year, and then keep alternating between 2 challenges and 3 challenges. That would cover all of the decades over a 4 year period. It's still kind of a long time to get through them all, but is a compromise between 2 challenges per year (5 years to get through) and 3 challenges per year (3 years to get through, but 2020s would have to be worked in eventually).

I wasn't around when the genres were implemented on a rotational basis, but I'd be okay with moving them to 2 per year so they are on a 3 year cycle if people wanted to keep more write in options open. I don't mind keeping them the way they are, though.
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#23

Post by flavo5000 »

I would vote for 5. I mean, if people really want decade challenges, they'll vote for them, right? Of course, I feel the same about the country challenges too.
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#24

Post by gunnar »

Final results of the poll

17 in favor of having Decade Challenges held on a regular schedule
9 against
6 not caring either way

To me, this means that we should figure out a way to add them on some sort of a schedule starting in 2025 since almost twice as many people voted yes compared to the no votes and it was still a majority even with the 'not caring' votes factored in.

I think that any discussion on implementation should wait until we see which decade challenges (if any) make it into the 2024 schedule.
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#25

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

Thank you for doing this, gunnar. I agree with all of that.
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#26

Post by gunnar »

None of the decade challenges made it onto the 2024 schedule, though 21st Century made it which is related to the decade challenges, though broader. 1980s came closest to making it, finishing 3 points out of the final position. I think that support here was diluted somewhat with so many different options to pick from.

This leads me to think that the five year rotation with 2 decade challenges per year might be the way to go. I would still prefer having them show up more frequently, such as in the four year cycle that I had in the original post, but putting more than two into the rotation without taking anything else out might be pushing it. Somebody raised the point elsewhere about demoting some of the less popular 'permanent' challenges to a rotational schedule. How that would be done (if it is done at all) would be something for somebody else to pursue, though I tend to agree.

For now, I can do another poll and see what options people prefer, whether it would be options 1, 2, 3, or something else that somebody proposes, but I would like to hear any ideas or discussion that people may have. Some have already expressed their support for a particular option earlier in the thread.
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#27

Post by peeptoad »

gunnar wrote: October 17th, 2023, 5:23 pm This leads me to think that the five year rotation with 2 decade challenges per year might be the way to go.
I'd agree based on the poll results, although with the stand-alone poll you ran in advance I'm a little surprised that none of the decades made it in. Maybe there was just a glut of other options to choose from, as you mentioned. Or maybe some voted in that poll but not the other.

Another consideration: re-run the other poll you had about generally including the decades as permanent sometime in the spring, or around 4-6 months before we start the fall 2025 challenge discussions. If you get similar results again, then run a poll to see how many per year to include. Possible that the board demographic changes slightly over time, or peoples' tastes change over time, etc. It would kind of be like having more experimental pools to get a clearer result on a study.

Anyway, as an occasional host, part of me likes the decade challenges because they are easier to manage, but truthfully they didn't get my top vote #s (except 1950s which I suggested two years in a row and it failed, so I"ll just resort to a 50s log if I get the jones)... B)
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#28

Post by flavo5000 »

I think it's much easier for people to say "Sure, decades challenges! why not?" than for people to choose Decades Challenges OR other challenges you like more.
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#29

Post by blocho »

flavo5000 wrote: October 17th, 2023, 8:15 pm I think it's much easier for people to say "Sure, decades challenges! why not?" than for people to choose Decades Challenges OR other challenges you like more.
Yes agreed,

There's another option. Wait for next year and then start a discussion about rethinking perma-challenges and rotational challenges in their entirety. Maybe people want to keep going with what we have. But maybe they want to change. Maybe they want an up-or-down vote on all of them. It's not a discussion I particularly want to lead. But it's a possibility.
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#30

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

flavo5000 wrote: October 17th, 2023, 8:15 pm I think it's much easier for people to say "Sure, decades challenges! why not?" than for people to choose Decades Challenges OR other challenges you like more.
I would like a couple of decade challenges a year, but I could only find space for one ('60s) in the nine I voted for.
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#31

Post by sortile9io »

Apparently, the interest in decades has been very disparate over the years. This is a summary of all the challenges run since the beginning (taken from the general index); it could be helpful to make a decision.

Year Challenges
2024 -
2023 1970s
2022 1990s
2021 -
2020 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s
2019 1930s, 1940s, 1950s
2018 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s (+21st Century)
2017 -
2016 -
2015 -
2014 2010s
2013 1960s
2012 Pre-1930s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s
2011 -


Sorted by frequency: 1970s (4), 1990s (4), 1950s (3), 1980s (3), 1930s (2), 1940s (2), 1960s (2), 2000s (1), 2010s (1) and 2020s (0).
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#32

Post by gunnar »

That is interesting information. Thanks for organizing it. It does seem like feast or famine.
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#33

Post by Fergenaprido »

It might work better if we time the decade challenges with their associated polls. We have the 2020s poll this month, and I guess when we start the discussion on 2025 polls, we'll decide whether or not we want to restart the cycle again. If there's a challenge one month followed by a poll the next, I think participation and interest will go up.
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#34

Post by gunnar »

I like that idea. Do you know what polls would potentially be in 2025 and 2026 if the current cycle continues/repeats?
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#35

Post by Fergenaprido »

gunnar wrote: October 19th, 2023, 5:31 am I like that idea. Do you know what polls would potentially be in 2025 and 2026 if the current cycle continues/repeats?
If we start over, it would be with the 1920s or 1930s, probably.
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#36

Post by gunnar »

Following peeptoad's suggestion, I'll plan on bringing this back up in late spring so that we can continue discussion about implementation and perhaps run a poll or two.
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