World Cup, Season 5, Match QFB: Romania vs Argentina (Sep 27th)

[joachimt]

This is match QFB of the fifth season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Romania	Apa ca un bivol negru	Water Like a Black Buffalo	1970	shugs	link	link
Argentina	El rufián		1961	zhangalan	link	link

Screenshots

Apa ca un bivol negru


El rufián

Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, post which of the two movies is your favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Sep 27th
Countdown till deadline

The country that ends at 1st place proceeds to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Movie with most votes wins.
- In case of a tie the match will have a 3 day extension.
- In case there's still a tie then, the next voter decides by sudden death.

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

We start with 40 films from 40 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 8 groups of 5. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 16 remaining countries will be divided into 4 groups of 4. The managers pick a new movie. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. The remaining 8 countries will play one on one in the QF. This continues till the final.

iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons

[hurluberlu]

1. El rufián 7-
2. Water Like a Black Buffalo 6-

[Mario Gaborović]

1. El rufián
2. Apa ca un bivol negru

Best pair of the 3rd round. I almost feel bad for voting against Romania, but this one was on my 500<400 list.

[klaus78]

1. El rufián
2. Apa ca un bivol negru

[Smoover]

1. El rufián 6.0
2. Apa ca un bivol negru 6.0

[beavis]

1. El rufián - 7.0
2. Apa ca un bivol negru - 6.0

After a very strong round comes maybe the most mediocre so far. And this is not only because rufian is only available in a copy with clear VHS artifacts and poor cropping and Apa only on youtube which means 9 commercial interuptions over an hour runtime for me. Overlong noir and a news report made by filmstudents just isn't the best these countries have to offer.

[Armoreska]

Well one of these countries needs to save their best ones for the SF. Imagine Argentina wins this cup now.

[zhangalan]

Well one of these countries needs to save their best ones for the SF. Imagine Argentina wins this cup now.

I view it differently though. With other big countries still in the title race, at this stage it is more important to promote hidden gems than picking safe ones for advancing to next stage. I guess it is the same for Shug. It is a big thumb up for choosing a film only the manager watched it before and it is even a documentary, which tends to have a disadvantage against drama films. I was expecting something like Stone Wedding, so this decision really takes a lot of courage. But again, apart from winning, the World Cup is really the big opportunity to promote your favourite yet obscure films to the forum, so we just can't miss the chance. I'd say I love El Rufian more than some other well-known Argentina canon though.

[zuma]

Well one of these countries needs to save their best ones for the SF. Imagine Argentina wins this cup now.

But again, apart from winning, the World Cup is really the big opportunity to promote your favourite yet obscure films to the forum, so we just can't miss the chance.

But it is the world cup...that you are trying to win. Pick a film to win.

[Mario Gaborović]

Well one of these countries needs to save their best ones for the SF. Imagine Argentina wins this cup now.

But again, apart from winning, the World Cup is really the big opportunity to promote your favourite yet obscure films to the forum, so we just can't miss the chance.

But it is the world cup...that you are trying to win. Pick a film to win.

I think shugs intended to win, actually. After all, he was the only manager able to get two countries in the quarterfinals.

Sometimes, however, our view of good is often at odds with other people's view. Plus there's the element of luck, too.

[filmbantha]

I think I'm going to sit this one out sadly. Watching the low quality version of the man with three coffins earlier in the cup was one of the most awful viewing experiences of recent memory and something I would rather not repeat. I had a similar reaction to The Green Wall a few years back also but felt compelled to sit through that one too and there may have been others I have forgotten about. I can't bring myself to watch any more poor quality vhs rips of films just to maintain a perfect attendance record in the wc since I started participating. 360p does not equate to a good time on my home cinema setup. You can listen to the latest talking images episode for more on that

Watch me get screwed over now when the Wc finalists both pick films only available in 360p to compete in the final round

I have enjoyed your picks for Argentina so far Zhangalan, with both of them making my 500<400 list, so I'm sure El rufián would be a good film and can only hope that someday it is uncovered in a format that is more acceptable for my personal preferences. Anything dvd quality or above would have been absolutely fine. Please don't take it personally, if anyone had submitted a film only available in this quality I would have ended up skipping it, even if it was against my own pick. I have tried to watch it a couple of times but can't get further than the five minute mark as I find the poor quality too distracting. My mind wanders too much in a situation like that to get the best out of a film as I can't become fully engrossed in it.

I think it's unlikely that one vote would make the difference anyway and I wish both managers the best of luck.

[shugs]

I was expecting something like Stone Wedding

Well, the directors of Stone Wedding are part of the group that made my pick for this round.

I took a risk with my choice this round, even if it's one of my favorite films I found while searching for nominees, and as the bird puts it:

[Armoreska]

btw Argentina still has movies on 7 and 8 lists that seem available for participation being below 1000 checks

[St. Gloede]

Not seen either film yet, but I am disappointed that we once more only have bad copies on YouTube available, for BOTH OPTIONS. At least that evens the odds a little. Good timing for the last podcast episode too.

I'll try to squeeze them in soon, but I have to admit this round is a bit unappealing for that reason.

[Mario Gaborović]

Guys what are you talking about, I mean Romanian entry is on YT and has pretty good image quality. Have we watched different copies, or what??

[shugs]

Yeah, the copy on the cinepub channel (which I've shared like twice now) looks pretty good.

[St. Gloede]

Phew, that's great. As mentioned I have not seen either yet.

[zuma]

Yeah I am also happy to hear the YT version looks good. Usually I would rather stab myself in the eye than watch a YT quality film.

[Mario Gaborović]

Yeah I am also happy to hear the YT version looks good. Usually I would rather stab myself in the eye than watch a YT quality film.

Irony I guess.

But I'd also rather stab myself in the patience organ than searching for films in this non-torrent, copyright "download is no-no" era of ours. It was so easy finding movies years before. At least YT is one click away.

Today not even 2+ seeders/leechers can't move the torrent forward.

[Armoreska]

1 Romania
2 Argentina

[Mario Gaborović]

1 Romania
2 Argentina

Is this a vote?

[joachimt]

(note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

[Armoreska]

well i hope you can figure out which film is from which country.
maybe you're in disbelief that i put the flood above the dark noir
however sometime films do pretty much tie so then country preference does come out as a tie breaker who knows if this is the time

[Mario Gaborović]

well i hope you can figure out which film is from which country.
maybe you're in disbelief that i put the flood above the dark noir
however sometime films do pretty much tie so then country preference does come out as a tie breaker who knows if this is the time

Armo please the iCM master, come on. Bow to the chosen one.

[zhangalan]

I think I'm going to sit this one out sadly. Watching the low quality version of the man with three coffins earlier in the cup was one of the most awful viewing experiences of recent memory and something I would rather not repeat. I had a similar reaction to The Green Wall a few years back also but felt compelled to sit through that one too and there may have been others I have forgotten about. I can't bring myself to watch any more poor quality vhs rips of films just to maintain a perfect attendance record in the wc since I started participating. 360p does not equate to a good time on my home cinema setup. You can listen to the latest talking images episode for more on that

Watch me get screwed over now when the Wc finalists both pick films only available in 360p to compete in the final round

I have enjoyed your picks for Argentina so far Zhangalan, with both of them making my 500<400 list, so I'm sure El rufián would be a good film and can only hope that someday it is uncovered in a format that is more acceptable for my personal preferences. Anything dvd quality or above would have been absolutely fine. Please don't take it personally, if anyone had submitted a film only available in this quality I would have ended up skipping it, even if it was against my own pick. I have tried to watch it a couple of times but can't get further than the five minute mark as I find the poor quality too distracting. My mind wanders too much in a situation like that to get the best out of a film as I can't become fully engrossed in it.

I think it's unlikely that one vote would make the difference anyway and I wish both managers the best of luck.

Don't worry, I can fully understand it.
I also find it a pity for the only available version of El Rufian being of poor quality, especially considering that it has brilliant cinematography.
Really hope that one day it can be restored, but looks like this is a long way to go since not many people know about the film.

[zhangalan]

well i hope you can figure out which film is from which country.
maybe you're in disbelief that i put the flood above the dark noir
however sometime films do pretty much tie so then country preference does come out as a tie breaker who knows if this is the time

So true. I was once a voter for the Ballon d'Or, and I put C. Ronaldo over Messi because I favour Brazil over Argentina, and then I realized I screwed thing up because I hate Portugal (just kidding, no insult ).

[Mario Gaborović]

Armoreska, will you type the proper way, or we'll just have to consider the vote submitted? I am not a picky-picker myself, but you know...

[Mario Gaborović]

Alright so, the current scoreline is:

Apa ca un bivol negru 1
El rufián 5

A little more than a week left.

[St. Gloede]

1. Apa ca un bivol negru / Water Like a Black Buffalo (1970, Seemingly Everyone)

A gripping portrait of a community after a disaster, that balances first-hand accounts, with the destruction itself, the current reality the survivors are still living in and hopes for the future. It has striking photography of streets still covered with water after the dam burst, tearing down homes and bridges, killing unknown numbers (people are still being fished out) and ruining the livelihood of the farmers that worked the land. It manages to strike a balance between contemplative and sometimes almost unnerving shots capturing the devastations, with the faces of the people. It has an engaging sense of resistance from those choosing to stay, while making the pains of rebuilding everything very clear. 8/10


2. El rufián (1961, Daniel Tinayre)

El rufián is a cool and twisty thriller it is sadly not possible to give a fair score to as I have no idea how the film actually looks in its current scratchy VHS TV recording. The opening is excellent, and I have to give the film credit for its unusual use of character/story changes:

Opening - Where we follow the couple we think the film will be about. It really captures the chaos of the funfair and makes us intrigued as to what their story might be, before their encounter with a fortune teller changes everything.

Fortune Teller - We follow the fortune teller certain that someone wants to kill her, and the suspense grows.

Ex-con - We travel through the crystal ball into the story of the ex-con the fortune teller thinks will kill her as he looks for a woman he used to know.

Flashback - An extended section of the film telling us the backstory of our characters.

Resolution - Back in the current time with both our two established leads.

I think the film were doing very well in building momentum, suspense and atmosphere for the first three of the above, but the flashbacks, which much have lasted for at least half an hour, really slowed the film down and took away momentum, and became more of a by the numbers kind of thriller/noir. By the end, I also cared less. That said,it is impossible to say how good or even great the film is in its current condition. 7/10

[zhangalan]

1. El rufián
2. Apa ca un bivol negru

I hope I can introduce the film to more people, but it seems that I might fail it.

[zhangalan]

1. Apa ca un bivol negru / Water Like a Black Buffalo (1970, Seemingly Everyone)

A gripping portrait of a community after a disaster, that balances first-hand accounts, with the destruction itself, the current reality the survivors are still living in and hopes for the future. It has striking photography of streets still covered with water after the dam burst, tearing down homes and bridges, killing unknown numbers (people are still being fished out) and ruining the livelihood of the farmers that worked the land. It manages to strike a balance between contemplative and sometimes almost unnerving shots capturing the devastations, with the faces of the people. It has an engaging sense of resistance from those choosing to stay, while making the pains of rebuilding everything very clear. 8/10


2. El rufián (1961, Daniel Tinayre)

El rufián is a cool and twisty thriller it is sadly not possible to give a fair score to as I have no idea how the film actually looks in its current scratchy VHS TV recording. The opening is excellent, and I have to give the film credit for its unusual use of character/story changes:

Opening - Where we follow the couple we think the film will be about. It really captures the chaos of the funfair and makes us intrigued as to what their story might be, before their encounter with a fortune teller changes everything.

Fortune Teller - We follow the fortune teller certain that someone wants to kill her, and the suspense grows.

Ex-con - We travel through the crystal ball into the story of the ex-con the fortune teller thinks will kill her as he looks for a woman he used to know.

Flashback - An extended section of the film telling us the backstory of our characters.

Resolution - Back in the current time with both our two established leads.

I think the film were doing very well in building momentum, suspense and atmosphere for the first three of the above, but the flashbacks, which much have lasted for at least half an hour, really slowed the film down and took away momentum, and became more of a by the numbers kind of thriller/noir. By the end, I also cared less. That said,it is impossible to say how good or even great the film is in its current condition. 7/10

Thanks for your review on El Rufian, St Gloede.
The opening really surprises me and it is brilliant. I thought I was watching a comedy at first, but the atmosphere changed all of a sudden. But this is really a clever way to make me soak into the world of the film. I agree after the flashback the plot becomes relatively weak and predictable. Still, I love the feel of noir with inescapable fate it gives me, and somehow it is sad to see what happen to the female lead in the end (I don't know if it is good or bad she regains the memory, and also she is the victim for the whole time).
I really want to dig deeper into Daniel Tinayre's works after this one, but it seems that El Rufian is the only one with Eng sub available, and the quality of the rip is not good.

[zzzorf]

1. El rufián
2. Apa ca un bivol negru

[zuma]

01 - El rufián

02 - Apa ca un bivol negru

Best thing about this round is, thanks to YouTube ads, I now know about the different upcoming VW cars and things to do in Ottawa (where I live). Win-win-win.

[shugs]

1. Apa ca un bivol negru / Water Like a Black Buffalo (1970, Seemingly Everyone)

A gripping portrait of a community after a disaster, that balances first-hand accounts, with the destruction itself, the current reality the survivors are still living in and hopes for the future. It has striking photography of streets still covered with water after the dam burst, tearing down homes and bridges, killing unknown numbers (people are still being fished out) and ruining the livelihood of the farmers that worked the land. It manages to strike a balance between contemplative and sometimes almost unnerving shots capturing the devastations, with the faces of the people. It has an engaging sense of resistance from those choosing to stay, while making the pains of rebuilding everything very clear. 8/10

Glad to see it clicked with someone.

I think I'll pass on watching El Rufian, the available quality is just too low for my tastes and I doubt my vote will make any sort of difference. I also doubt I will be managing Romania in future World Cups, main issue I had as a native speaker was with subtitle availability, and if they were available they got on my nerves a lot of times with how things were translated.

[jvv]

1. El rufián
2. Apa ca un bivol negru

[Mario Gaborović]

3 days left. The scoreline:

Apa ca un bivol negru: 2
El rufián: 9

[sol]

Two great movies this round - both 500<400 worthy and both on zero official lists. It's always nice great to discover unknown gems beyond officialdom.

1. Black Buffalo Water (1970) https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/water- ... k-buffalo/
2. The Ruffian (1961) https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/the-ruffian/

Many thanks to both managers. Like I said during QFA, once again either film would be a worthy winner.

[St. Gloede]

Could the tide be turning?

(Is that a cruel pun? Been 53 years)

[pitchorneirda]

1. El rufián
2. Apa ca un bivol negru

I dreaded this round but it ended up being one of the most interesting.
Both films couldn't be more different so it's tough to compare them but I was just more drawn to the Argentinian one, it has more the feeling of a hidden gem than the Romanian one.

[pitchorneirda]

and Apa only on youtube which means 9 commercial interuptions over an hour runtime for me

Why doesn't everybody in the world use uBlock Origin?