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World Cup, Season 5, Match 1D: Italy vs Sweden vs Serbia vs Canada vs Ecuador (Mar 19th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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sol
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#41

Post by sol »

What an interesting round. I managed to watch these films in reverse order of preference, meaning they got better and better for me each time. :ph43r:

Congrats to pitchorneirda for selecting the film that I liked the most this round. Added to my 500<400 list. Also many thanks to Gloede whose pick likewise cracked my hidden gems list. Additional congrats to Ferg for getting Canada into the second round of a WC season, and thanks to Angel and sacmer for selecting films that I thought were decent and which I would have never prioritised otherwise were it not for the World Cup.

As usual, I've attached links to my Letterboxd reviews for anybody interested in my thoughts on the individual films this round.

1. Image Elvira Madigan https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/elvira-madigan/
2. Image Pre istine https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/before-the-truth/
3. Image Les ordres https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/orderers/
4. Image Il cavaliere misterioso https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/the-my ... ider-1948/
5. Image Ratas, ratones, rateros https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/rodents/
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#43

Post by pitchorneirda »

sol wrote: March 18th, 2023, 2:41 am Added to my 500<400 list
Yay, mission accomplished then ;) Would have preferred to qualify for next round, but that's a heartwarming consolation
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#44

Post by sol »

pitchorneirda wrote: March 18th, 2023, 9:25 pm
sol wrote: March 18th, 2023, 2:41 am Added to my 500<400 list
Yay, mission accomplished then ;) Would have preferred to qualify for next round, but that's a heartwarming consolation
Glad to hear. :thumbsup: And I'm glad that I finally sat down to watch the film, which I had been aware of for at least a decade. I'm kind of surprised that it isn't on any Official Lists (yet) given the director's reputation. Or maybe it was on the FLM list before it got updated. I'm certainly surprised that it is not only absent from the current 1000<400 list, but the current 2000<400 list too, which meant that it received less than 95 points last year. That should change this year though between you, me and and whoever else adds it to their list.
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#45

Post by zzzorf »

1. Il cavaliere misterioso (1948)
2. Ratas, ratones, rateros (1999)
3. Les ordres (1974)
4. Elvira Madigan (1967)
5. Pre istine (1968)
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#46

Post by shugs »

1. 🇷🇸 Before the Truth
2. 🇮🇹 The Mysterious Rider
3. 🇸🇪 Elvira Madigan
4. 🇨🇦 Orderers
5. 🇪🇨 Rodents
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#47

Post by lineuphere »

Image 1. Pre istine
Image 2. Elvira Madigan
Image 3. Il cavaliere misterioso
Image 4. Ratas, ratones, rateros
Image 5. Les ordres
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#48

Post by joachimt »

Back to a tie on #1 and #2.

Image Les ordres: 2.444 (46-26)
Image Pre istine: 2.444 (46-26)
Image Elvira Madigan: 2.944 (37-35)
Image Ratas, ratones, rateros: 3.5 (27-45)
Image Il cavaliere misterioso: 3.667 (24-48)

Head-to-head on #1:
Image Serbia - Image Canada: 8 - 10
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#49

Post by joachimt »

I still expect about 6 more voters, so Sweden still has a chance. Nine points difference is possible to overcome. Each vote can give a maximum of four points.
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#50

Post by Angel Glez »

1.Il cavaliere misterioso
2.Ratas, ratones, rateros
3.Les ordres
4.Elvira Madigan
5.Pre istine
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#51

Post by zuma »

01 - Les ordres

02 - Elvira Madigan

03 - Il cavaliere misterioso

04 - Pre istine

05 - Ratas, ratones, rateros
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#52

Post by avb »

1. Pre istine
2. Il cavaliere misterioso
3. Elvira Madigan
4. Ratas, ratones, rateros
5. Les ordre
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#53

Post by Fergenaprido »

1. 7.8 - Canada - Les ordres [The Orderers] (1974)
2. 7.4 - Italy - Il cavaliere misterioso [The Mysterious Rider] (1948)
3. 7.2 - Serbia - Pre istine [Before the Truth] (1968)
4. 6.4 - Sweden - Elvira Madigan (1967)
5. 6.2 - Ecuador - Ratas, ratones, rateros [Rodents] (1999)


I'm pleasantly surprised that my pick has done well so far, as despite knowing it had a few fans on here already it still felt like a risk, and the "love it or hate it" response it seems to be getting so far (in terms of 1st or 5th place, not ratings) makes me feel lucky. I've probably written about this film before, but the first time I saw it I didn't care for it much, maybe a 7.0 rating; I had to watch it for French class in university (I forget which one), and it didn't have subtitles at the time so I didn't fully grasp it and I felt a bit bored, but I knew that I eventually wanted to give it another go. 7 years later I showed it to my colleagues at our weekly film night, and enjoyed it much more, and my friends all liked it as well. My Russian colleague in particular was struck by the similarities to what happened in the film to what happened in Soviet times, and she was surprised that stuff like that had happened in a "freer" Western country. I think what gets me the most about the film, aside from it's interesting blend of fact and fiction, is that it covered a part of our history that was often glossed over (I only learned about it in university, in one of my French Canadian studies classes, never in elementary or high school aside from a brief mention about the October Crisis), despite it being a really key important political turning point in Québec and Canada as a whole. The fact that this film was released only a few years later is astonishing to me. Anyway, glad that many of you enjoyed it, and glad to share a bit about my country's troubled history with you all.

The Italian film is not one I would have sought out on my own, but it ended up being rather enjoyable. I think Gassman was a pretty perfect choice for Casanova (and in some shots he looked like Heath Ledger, who also played Casanova 50+ years later), and his charm carried most of the film. It moved along at a nice pace for the first hour or so, but the last big dragged some. The script was a bit disjointed at times, and some of the editing was off (especially the scene where Casanova meets Catherine in the woods and the snow cover changes from shot to shot), but overall it was pleasant and the best surprised of the match.

I think being a non-Scandinavian puts me at a detriment for the Swedish film, because I wasn't familiar with the historical story and it felt like it got started with a lot of assumptions about what the intended audience already knew about the couple. That, plus the romanticized rewriting of the actual story, left me cold to what was happening, and no amount of pretty pictures or pleasant classical music could draw me in. A lot of the plot was laughable, too (the little girl barely glimpsing two people in the grass at the start and then running away immediately, only to be able to give an accurate description of them to her mother a few scenes later?), and it just felt like a jumbled mess. This was style over substance for me, and the style didn't draw me in.

The Serbian film was pretty good, and I'm glad to have finally seen it; I am indeed interested in the sequel. What ended up downgrading the film was the non-sequential storytelling of the present day sections; it was fine for the first half of the movie, but then by the time they encountered the 5 or 6 gentlemen in the streets I started to get lost. I don't understand the choice to tell the story that way, and ultimately it caused me to drift away from it. There were some really stellar shots in the cinematography, though. I wonder what it would look like if the film was recut for all the modern scenes to be chronological (while keeping the flashbacks where they are), and if that would change my opinion or appreciation of the film. I also understand it was a fansub, but I felt a bit lost not knowing what the signs at the protest said at the beginning, or what some of the speeches were near the end. Given the year of release I assume it was something akin to the May '68 student protests in France, but I don't know. It feels like it could have had some affect on the plot/mood of the film, as it seems to have been intentionally set during these protests, so it feels like I'm missing some context a native viewer would implicitly understand, but I could be mistaken.

I think a better English title for the Ecuadorian film would be Vermin instead of Rodents, as it gives a better connotation of what the original Spanish title is trying to convey (though that alliteration is pretty brilliant). To tie in to a recent podcast episode (which I haven't listened to, mind you), this film is a stress film, and I'm not a fan. I want to be entertained or educated, not stressed out and fearful during a film (though I know I'm a minority on this forum in that respect), and I just couldn't get into or enjoy this one (though I suppose sacs will be unsurprised given my responses to his clem's Secret Santa choices for me). I did start to like it more the second half of the film, and it almost overtook Elvira for me, but then
Spoiler
the way the film just ended without any resolution whatsoever killed any appreciation or goodwill I had going for it. No redemption for anyone, not consequences for anyone else, just a sudden cliffhanger like it was setting itself up for a sequel that never came to fruition, or like they just ran out of budget. I found it hard to care about a group of largely self-centred irredeemable characters making bad decision after bad decision... I don't find that interesting and would have probably turned off the film if it wasn't a WC pick.
I also don't know if the graininess was from the filmstock or not, but it looked like it was added in afterward digitally, and I found that distracting. Still, I'm glad to get another Ecuadorian film under my belt.

Overall, not a bad round and all the films had some merit. Hopefully I'll squeak through by the end of this match. Thanks to all the other managers for their picks, and for the participants for voting.

And yes, sol, Elvira Madigan was in the FLM list before. It had 2 votes in the 2012 poll, but 0 votes in the 2022 update.
Last edited by Fergenaprido on March 20th, 2023, 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#54

Post by Nopros »

Just in time :whistling:

1. Pre istine (1968) 7.5/10
2. Ratas, ratones, rateros (1999) 7.5/10
3. Les ordres (1974) 7/10
4. Il cavaliere misterioso (1948) 6/10
5. Elvira Madigan (1967) 6/10
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#55

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

Image 1. Pre istine - 9/10
Image 2. Il cavaliere misterioso - 8.5 or 9/10
Image 3. Les ordres - 8.5 or 9/10
Image 4. Elvira Madigan - 7.5 or 8/10
Image 5. Ratas, ratones, rateros - 6/10

Super round! I found it hard to rank the top three here. They could have been arranged differently on another day. The Canadian and Serbian entries delve into the nightmarish in memorable fashion and the comic-book, serial-like adventures of the Italian film's romantic hero made for a nice way to round out these watches. The tragic Swedish film makes exquisite use of imagery and music. The Ecuadorian film was a visceral immersion, but was the one film that kind of jarred with me. Overall, possibly the strongest round of this year's WC so far.

Thanks to the managers!
Last edited by RogerTheMovieManiac88 on March 20th, 2023, 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
That's all, folks!
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#56

Post by Mario Gaborović »

The match is over. Serbia and Canada advance to the second round.

1. Image Pre istine 61-35
2. Image Les ordres 60-36
3. Image Elvira Madigan 45-51
4. Image Il cavaliere misterioso 40-56
5. Image Ratas, ratones, rateros 34-62

Congratulations to St. Gloede and Fergenaprido. Also thanks to pitchorneirda, Angel Glez and sacmersault for their picks and the 24 people who voted this match.
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#57

Post by St. Gloede »

Really happy Before the Truth ended up grabbing so many number 1 positions, especially towards the end of the challenge and that I was able to share it with so many people. If the rules had not forbidden two films by the same director I would likely have followed up with the sequel The Walled-In, which has already been getting some buzz in this round as well. Others mentioned that they actually preferred The Walled-In and I can see why - it has a bit more of a universal prisoner/guard - captive/captor and in some ways steps up the nightmarish under/overtones of just not knowing where you have the other - i.e. the exact same feelings as in Before the Truth, but in a different context. Before the Truth to me feels even braver in how it handled the communist party and suggestions of corruption, cover-up, heartless bureaucracy, etc. I mean, what a start - and I have a slight preference to the outside city ramblings here, to the claustrophobia of The Walled-In - but again, both are fantastic.

Really interesting round once again, and let's see if I can push Serbia all the way to the final.
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#58

Post by Mario Gaborović »

St. Gloede wrote: March 20th, 2023, 10:56 am Really happy Before the Truth ended up grabbing so many number 1 positions, especially towards the end of the challenge and that I was able to share it with so many people. If the rules had not forbidden two films by the same director I would likely have followed up with the sequel The Walled-In, which has already been getting some buzz in this round as well. Others mentioned that they actually preferred The Walled-In and I can see why - it has a bit more of a universal prisoner/guard - captive/captor and in some ways steps up the nightmarish under/overtones of just not knowing where you have the other - i.e. the exact same feelings as in Before the Truth, but in a different context. Before the Truth to me feels even braver in how it handled the communist party and suggestions of corruption, cover-up, heartless bureaucracy, etc. I mean, what a start - and I have a slight preference to the outside city ramblings here, to the claustrophobia of The Walled-In - but again, both are fantastic.

Really interesting round once again, and let's see if I can push Serbia all the way to the final.
I don't know if you noticed, but the voice of prison guard in Zazidani is actually that of Mladen (Branko Pleša) from Pre istine. I've no data why the real voice of Danilo 'Bata' Stojković wasn't used.

Ljuba Tadić appears in both films but that's his voice.

I hope you'll consider some recommendations I have for you for the second round, if you didn't decide on it already.
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#59

Post by pitchorneirda »

I can't say I'm not disappointed because Sweden was my "primary" country and I had so many ideas... I just can't stop wonder what would have happened if I had another strategy...

But strong group and deserving winners.
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#60

Post by Mario Gaborović »

pitchorneirda wrote: March 20th, 2023, 11:30 am I can't say I'm not disappointed because Sweden was my "primary" country and I had so many ideas... I just can't stop wonder what would have happened if I had another strategy...

But strong group and deserving winners.
Just look at the next group, how lucky you were.

But then again there was group A (by far the weakest IMO). You simply never know.
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#61

Post by joachimt »

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#62

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Fergenaprido wrote: March 20th, 2023, 6:28 am I felt a bit lost not knowing what the signs at the protest said at the beginning, or what some of the speeches were near the end. Given the year of release I assume it was something akin to the May '68 student protests in France, but I don't know.
Yes those were June protests sparked by the same anti-protests in Paris, and even the other towns like Zagreb, Sarajevo, Ljubljana and Skopje had their own but at much smaller scale.
Somehow anti-war (Vietnam) and the local rebellion against communist bureaucracy merged protesters to one large group, and they quickly gained praise by eminent local writers & intellectuals of the time, which ended with Tito's giving in and with his legendary phrase "The students were right". Of course those who organized the riots got pretty tough afterlife, depending on their hierarchy within protesters. A really small number found themselves in jail, but the majority (of these mostly educated youth) couldn't find work and had troubles because of bureaucrats who sabotaged them at every step.

The slogans say "Guerrilla Fighters We Side with You", "For the World Without Bombs", "Stop the Bad Deeds", "Vietnam, the American Crime", "Boo Fascism", "Let's Live for Peace and Freedom" etc.

This was very important event and Rakonjac merged the idea of his film with this turning point for Yugoslavia, whose leftist youth saw the betrayal of the original communist/partisan ideas of such society that doesn't acknowledge privileged classes. Strahinja is one member of this class, moreover the member of defeated Royalist movement who later advanced his career of an attorney.

That's why great deal of Serbian films have '68 riots in their plot summary, some are set at the time (excellent comedy "The Elusive Summer of 68", the average "How I Was Systematically Destroyed by an Idiot"), and some are set years later where we see what happened with the protesters (one of my favourites "Taiwan Canasta").


In 1982 the Zagreb-based Azra released a song called '68. Here is the link for the song and the translation:
http://balkanmp3.ba/index.php?a=track&id=47590&name=

Doctor, what is happening to me?
I feel strange
I am 37 years old and have a valuable diploma
Night pollution disturbs me
My head hurts
I am a high school professor
I teach some left rights there
I have regular masturbation
The monthly salary is miserable
What can I do without action all day
When I was a student
I used to tear down often
I read "Praxis" (students' paper)
Polemicized well
Anarchism was in my blood
"Everybody to the barricades!"
I dreamed that I was a leader of proletarian youth
And today, doctor, help me
It's hard for me, believe me
What can I do without action all day?
My companions ordain from 19 to 22
They don't even take quick sips
Nor make any noise
They just have a blank stare and they rot
Workers sleep on trams
Children kiss in the streets
Nights are for thugs and always a distraction
Nights are only a nuisance
I'm going to throw myself from the bridge right now
Straight down to Sava river

60
8-60
It will come back again
8-60


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#63

Post by Angel Glez »

Well played, guys. Congrats to the winners! :cheers:
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#64

Post by Fergenaprido »

Thanks for the explanation Mario, that does indeed help. :thumbsup:

I don't remember much about Taiwan Canasta, maybe it's worth a revisit with that new context in mind.
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