Welcome to the ICM Forum.
Check out our Magazine

If you notice any issues please post in the Q&A thread. Email issue should be fixed. If you encounter this issue, contact PeacefulAnarchy
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 64 released December 2nd: How Everything Everywhere All at Once Was Suddenly Eveything Everywhere All at Once)
iCinema Magazine: WE ARE LIVE! (We just need more content)
ICMForum Film Festival 2022 Nov 14 - Dec 12
World Cup - Season 5: Round 1 Schedule
Polls: 2000s (Results), 1924 (Results), Canada (Nov 30th), Horror (Nov 30th), 1941 (Dec 26th)
Challenges: Cult/Grindhouse, Documentary, Turkey and Caucasus
About: Welcome All New Members, Terms of Use, Q&A

New Official List Discussion

User avatar
hurluberlu
Donator
Posts: 3405
Joined: January 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Contact:

#7001

Post by hurluberlu »

beasterne wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 1:03 pm
hurluberlu wrote: July 22nd, 2022, 7:41 am
Fergenaprido wrote: July 21st, 2022, 9:40 pm

That's what the "New" tab is for.
It is something but not as convenient as the full list in reverse chronological order.
Reverse chronological order can still be viewed by using “Order by:” -> “rank” -> the list will flip and last will be first.
Thanks beasterne, I know that and I don’t object that aligning the one exception with the rest of the lists is wrong. I am just saying reverse chronological order by default would be better and probably make the lists more appealing for some users too.
ImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 10865
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#7002

Post by xianjiro »

Certainly newer films are easier to locate. Additionally, with the default list length of 50 titles upon page load, there is an argument to be made for reverse-chrono (or more technically, reverse-chrono by year with alpha-numeric within a given year), but clearly this provides a possible conflict with the idea of "ranking". If the list isn't ranked by its creator, then I can see the argument for ranking based on chronology of addition to the list (with alpha-numeric sorting within a given addition year).

Guess the question is, would reverse-chrono somehow confuse and how might that impact users? Also, guess there is also the issue of how the lists are displayed by their creators: does Cahiers du Cinéma have a complete listing on their website? Both "source" links take us to other sites (Wikipedia & Truely?)
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 6175
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#7003

Post by Torgo »

Torgo wrote: July 21st, 2022, 6:58 pm Excuse me if this has been addressed before, but
.. the icon color for Roy Menarini's Il Grande Cinema Italiano is completely off - it's orange, not red. I'm almost inclined to believe someone has just tilted the Hungarian list's logo by 90 degrees, because it's the same color (only there, it is correct). :huh:
The other Italian list has it right, a saturated, deep red [profondo rosso].
User avatar
Mothravka
Posts: 236
Joined: January 18th, 2016, 7:00 am
Location: Европа
Contact:

#7004

Post by Mothravka »

Torgo wrote: July 24th, 2022, 5:08 pm
Torgo wrote: July 21st, 2022, 6:58 pm Excuse me if this has been addressed before, but
.. the icon color for Roy Menarini's Il Grande Cinema Italiano is completely off - it's orange, not red. I'm almost inclined to believe someone has just tilted the Hungarian list's logo by 90 degrees, because it's the same color (only there, it is correct). :huh:
The other Italian list has it right, a saturated, deep red [profondo rosso].
The flag of Hungary should not be orange, but crimson red. This is already explained in official documents with the exact hexadecimals etc. It's defined in the one called MSZ 1361:2009.
dirty_score
Posts: 826
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7005

Post by dirty_score »

Correct. The Hungarian flag should be the reverse Iran. Both italian and hungarian (tilted) look like a Ireland flag.

On a different note, it has been 3 months since the last round of adoptions. Surely the next round is coming... :mw_confused:
User avatar
RogerTheMovieManiac88
Posts: 2536
Joined: February 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Contact:

#7006

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

Ireland IS orange, though.
That's all, folks!
magnusbernhardsen
Posts: 453
Joined: June 25th, 2022, 9:47 pm
Location: Moss, Norway
Contact:

#7007

Post by magnusbernhardsen »

RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote: August 16th, 2022, 12:15 pm Ireland IS orange, though.
12th of July-vibes
User avatar
RogerTheMovieManiac88
Posts: 2536
Joined: February 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Contact:

#7008

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

magnusbernhardsen wrote: August 16th, 2022, 12:24 pm
RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote: August 16th, 2022, 12:15 pm Ireland IS orange, though.
12th of July-vibes
:mrgreen: :hug: :mrorange:
That's all, folks!
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27092
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7009

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

dirty_score wrote: August 16th, 2022, 10:19 am Correct. The Hungarian flag should be the reverse Iran. Both italian and hungarian (tilted) look like a Ireland flag.

On a different note, it has been 3 months since the last round of adoptions. Surely the next round is coming... :mw_confused:
We're working on it, but not that soon.
User avatar
hurluberlu
Donator
Posts: 3405
Joined: January 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Contact:

#7010

Post by hurluberlu »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: August 16th, 2022, 2:21 pm
dirty_score wrote: August 16th, 2022, 10:19 am Correct. The Hungarian flag should be the reverse Iran. Both italian and hungarian (tilted) look like a Ireland flag.

On a different note, it has been 3 months since the last round of adoptions. Surely the next round is coming... :mw_confused:
We're working on it, but not that soon.
Venice festival is coming so this an opportunity to adopt the Grand Prix list ! Which ended up #7 of the poll. :thumbsup:
ImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 6175
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#7011

Post by Torgo »

Mothravka wrote: August 16th, 2022, 9:47 am The flag of Hungary should not be orange, but crimson red. This is already explained in official documents with the exact hexadecimals etc. It's defined in the one called MSZ 1361:2009.
dirty_score wrote: August 16th, 2022, 10:19 am Correct. The Hungarian flag should be the reverse Iran. Both italian and hungarian (tilted) look like a Ireland flag.
Sloppy me again. :sweat: You're right of course, I confused it with Ireland.
The Italian list basically has an Irish flag .. for how many years now?
:mw_confused:
User avatar
Panunzio
Posts: 375
Joined: October 19th, 2013, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7012

Post by Panunzio »

Just checking, but is there any chance of a couple new lists alongside the big Sight & Sound update next month?
User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 8072
Joined: June 3rd, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

#7013

Post by Fergenaprido »

Panunzio wrote: September 7th, 2022, 4:00 pm Just checking, but is there any chance of a couple new lists alongside the big Sight & Sound update next month?
Yes, there's a chance.
Cinematic Omnivore 🧚‍♂️🦫
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27092
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7014

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

We're working on deciding on the lists for the next adoption. The decision should be done this month, the actual adoption, I don't know.
User avatar
blueboybob
Donator
Posts: 2601
Joined: March 11th, 2013, 6:00 am
Location: DC
Contact:

#7015

Post by blueboybob »

AVN 100 greatest movies!
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 10865
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#7016

Post by xianjiro »

Spring is always nice ...
User avatar
erde
Posts: 471
Joined: January 2nd, 2019, 9:13 pm
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Contact:

#7017

Post by erde »

Cannes jury prize! Every year about ten academy award nominees become instantly official, but somehow the third prize of the most prestigeous film festival in the world is a bit much? I find it strange.
Image
User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 9126
Joined: December 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#7018

Post by Onderhond »

erde wrote: September 9th, 2022, 5:22 pm Every year about ten academy award nominees become instantly official
Yeah, and it sucks.
User avatar
xianjiro
Donator
Posts: 10865
Joined: June 17th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Kakistani Left Coast
Contact:

#7019

Post by xianjiro »

Especially when one considers some of those made official are just nominees ...
User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 8072
Joined: June 3rd, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

#7020

Post by Fergenaprido »

erde wrote: September 9th, 2022, 5:22 pm Cannes jury prize! Every year about ten academy award nominees become instantly official, but somehow the third prize of the most prestigeous film festival in the world is a bit much? I find it strange.
I don't think that's a valid comparison.

There are thousands of films made every year, all of which are eligible for the Oscars, in theory. Of course not all of them are submitted or meet the screening requirements, but last year there were 276 films eligible for Best Oscar (and I'm guessing it's more in a regular non-pandemic year). So 3.6% of eligible films got nominated in 2021.

For Cannes, The Jury Prize is chosen from the "official selection" films. I'm not clear on if that's for those films In Competition only, or also the Un Certain Regard films. There were 21 of the former and 20 of the latter at this year's competition. That means, with the Palme d'Or and Grand Prix, 3-5 films become official (depending on ties, which there seem to be a lot of). That's 14-24% of just the In Competition films and 7-12% of both sections combined.

So while in in terms of raw numbers, yes, more films become official because of the Oscars BP noms, but a far higher percentage of eligible Cannes films would become official if we adopt a third list.
Cinematic Omnivore 🧚‍♂️🦫
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 6175
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#7021

Post by Torgo »

The Oscar is the most known film prize of the world by light years, that's a fact. Like it or not

Ending up in BP nominees - even when the category is a bit watered down by the expansion to 6-10 titles each year - will boost a film's popularity by a factor that's way beyond a winner of Cannes.

And yes, a lot of their kitsch will leave a bad taste in my mouth too, but I won't dream of something like removing the BP noms list.

That said, I have no problem with adopting the third Cannes list one day, well, because Cannes.
User avatar
hurluberlu
Donator
Posts: 3405
Joined: January 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Contact:

#7022

Post by hurluberlu »

Fergenaprido wrote: September 9th, 2022, 7:59 pm
erde wrote: September 9th, 2022, 5:22 pm Cannes jury prize! Every year about ten academy award nominees become instantly official, but somehow the third prize of the most prestigeous film festival in the world is a bit much? I find it strange.
I don't think that's a valid comparison.

There are thousands of films made every year, all of which are eligible for the Oscars, in theory. Of course not all of them are submitted or meet the screening requirements, but last year there were 276 films eligible for Best Oscar (and I'm guessing it's more in a regular non-pandemic year). So 3.6% of eligible films got nominated in 2021.

For Cannes, The Jury Prize is chosen from the "official selection" films. I'm not clear on if that's for those films In Competition only, or also the Un Certain Regard films. There were 21 of the former and 20 of the latter at this year's competition. That means, with the Palme d'Or and Grand Prix, 3-5 films become official (depending on ties, which there seem to be a lot of). That's 14-24% of just the In Competition films and 7-12% of both sections combined.

So while in in terms of raw numbers, yes, more films become official because of the Oscars BP noms, but a far higher percentage of eligible Cannes films would become official if we adopt a third list.
In 2019, Cannes selection committee watched 1849 films that met pre-selection criteria. I think this is the number you need to compare with the Oscar 276 pooi...

It is time folks, no more funny excuse. :cowbow:
ImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 6175
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#7023

Post by Torgo »

Fergenaprido wrote: July 21st, 2022, 8:00 pm
Torgo wrote: July 21st, 2022, 6:58 pm Excuse me if this has been addressed before, but I won't have my peace of mind until this is cleared:
The Cahiers annual list is chronologically reverse, opposed to all our other lists. Not only is it an exception, it also leads to every title losing 10 spots every update which looks like fake movement (of course it is a static list).
Why.
I need answers.
It will be changed. I got agreement from the rest of the mods to reverse it, but didn't have time to go through and properly reorder it before the last annual results. My goal is to have it done in time for this year's announcement, so that when we add the new films the list will be reordered at the same time. If I manage to get it done sooner, I'll ask max to do a minor edit to the list, since he's the last one who updated it, but he's not around much anymore from what I can tell. Hope he's doing well.
The S&S update could be a chance to make wrongs right :whistling:
User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 8072
Joined: June 3rd, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

#7024

Post by Fergenaprido »

hurluberlu wrote: September 9th, 2022, 8:20 pm
Fergenaprido wrote: September 9th, 2022, 7:59 pm
erde wrote: September 9th, 2022, 5:22 pm Cannes jury prize! Every year about ten academy award nominees become instantly official, but somehow the third prize of the most prestigeous film festival in the world is a bit much? I find it strange.
I don't think that's a valid comparison.

There are thousands of films made every year, all of which are eligible for the Oscars, in theory. Of course not all of them are submitted or meet the screening requirements, but last year there were 276 films eligible for Best Oscar (and I'm guessing it's more in a regular non-pandemic year). So 3.6% of eligible films got nominated in 2021.

For Cannes, The Jury Prize is chosen from the "official selection" films. I'm not clear on if that's for those films In Competition only, or also the Un Certain Regard films. There were 21 of the former and 20 of the latter at this year's competition. That means, with the Palme d'Or and Grand Prix, 3-5 films become official (depending on ties, which there seem to be a lot of). That's 14-24% of just the In Competition films and 7-12% of both sections combined.

So while in in terms of raw numbers, yes, more films become official because of the Oscars BP noms, but a far higher percentage of eligible Cannes films would become official if we adopt a third list.
In 2019, Cannes selection committee watched 1849 films that met pre-selection criteria. I think this is the number you need to compare with the Oscar 276 pooi...

It is time folks, no more funny excuse. :cowbow:
The selection committee is different from the jury, though. And the 1849 would be comparable to the number of films made and thus meet the criteria for the Oscars, which would be in the thousands. And I found some more numbers, and the number of eligible BP films have been 300-350 every year since 2014, pre-pandemic.
Cinematic Omnivore 🧚‍♂️🦫
User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 8072
Joined: June 3rd, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Canada
Contact:

#7025

Post by Fergenaprido »

Torgo wrote: September 9th, 2022, 8:37 pm
Fergenaprido wrote: July 21st, 2022, 8:00 pm
Torgo wrote: July 21st, 2022, 6:58 pm Excuse me if this has been addressed before, but I won't have my peace of mind until this is cleared:
The Cahiers annual list is chronologically reverse, opposed to all our other lists. Not only is it an exception, it also leads to every title losing 10 spots every update which looks like fake movement (of course it is a static list).
Why.
I need answers.
It will be changed. I got agreement from the rest of the mods to reverse it, but didn't have time to go through and properly reorder it before the last annual results. My goal is to have it done in time for this year's announcement, so that when we add the new films the list will be reordered at the same time. If I manage to get it done sooner, I'll ask max to do a minor edit to the list, since he's the last one who updated it, but he's not around much anymore from what I can tell. Hope he's doing well.
The S&S update could be a chance to make wrongs right :whistling:
What is the correlation between the two? :mw_confused:
Cinematic Omnivore 🧚‍♂️🦫
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 6175
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#7026

Post by Torgo »

There's none. I'm just bumping this matter in a slightly more original way than saying "bump".
:sweat:
User avatar
hurluberlu
Donator
Posts: 3405
Joined: January 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Contact:

#7027

Post by hurluberlu »

Fergenaprido wrote: September 9th, 2022, 9:26 pm
hurluberlu wrote: September 9th, 2022, 8:20 pm
Fergenaprido wrote: September 9th, 2022, 7:59 pm

I don't think that's a valid comparison.

There are thousands of films made every year, all of which are eligible for the Oscars, in theory. Of course not all of them are submitted or meet the screening requirements, but last year there were 276 films eligible for Best Oscar (and I'm guessing it's more in a regular non-pandemic year). So 3.6% of eligible films got nominated in 2021.

For Cannes, The Jury Prize is chosen from the "official selection" films. I'm not clear on if that's for those films In Competition only, or also the Un Certain Regard films. There were 21 of the former and 20 of the latter at this year's competition. That means, with the Palme d'Or and Grand Prix, 3-5 films become official (depending on ties, which there seem to be a lot of). That's 14-24% of just the In Competition films and 7-12% of both sections combined.

So while in in terms of raw numbers, yes, more films become official because of the Oscars BP noms, but a far higher percentage of eligible Cannes films would become official if we adopt a third list.
In 2019, Cannes selection committee watched 1849 films that met pre-selection criteria. I think this is the number you need to compare with the Oscar 276 pooi...

It is time folks, no more funny excuse. :cowbow:
The selection committee is different from the jury, though. And the 1849 would be comparable to the number of films made and thus meet the criteria for the Oscars, which would be in the thousands. And I found some more numbers, and the number of eligible BP films have been 300-350 every year since 2014, pre-pandemic.
1849 is not all films made and eligible for Cannes either, it is the films submitted to the pre-selection committee. Cannes is the world, it will always have a bigger pool than what was released in Los Angeles county.
ImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Torgo
Posts: 6175
Joined: June 30th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

#7028

Post by Torgo »

.. why IS the Academy Award for cinematography official, though? So early in the history of ICM list officialization?
You could think directing would be at least as worthy (maybe too tied to winning BP?). Or both screenplay awards. And I'm pretty sure many more people would've been interested in films which won for best actor/actress than that camera thingy.
:think:

I'm not complaining btw, just wondering, somehow.
dirty_score
Posts: 826
Joined: October 10th, 2016, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7029

Post by dirty_score »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: September 7th, 2022, 4:36 pm We're working on deciding on the lists for the next adoption. The decision should be done this month, the actual adoption, I don't know.
*crosses fingers*

Here's hoping for some christmas presents, for a change!
:smilz19:
User avatar
PeacefulAnarchy
Moderator
Posts: 27092
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7030

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Don't remind me it's already the end of November. I certainly hope everything will be ready next month.
User avatar
WalterNeff
Donator
Posts: 3649
Joined: July 27th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7031

Post by WalterNeff »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: November 25th, 2022, 2:57 am Don't remind me it's already the end of November. I certainly hope everything will be ready next month.
I haven't got my Pre-Code list request yet.
Post Reply