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rank a director

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Caracortada
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#801

Post by Caracortada »

Howard:
  1. A Beautiful Mind 7
  2. Splash 6
  3. Far and Away
  4. Apollo Thirteen
  5. Frost/Nixon
  6. How the Grinch Stole Christmas 5
  7. The Da Vinci Code 4
  8. The Dilemma
  9. Rush
  10. Solo: A Star Wars Story 3
  11. Angels & Demons
  12. Cinderella Man
Kiarostami:
  1. Like Someone in Love 6
  2. Copie conforme
  3. Taste of Cherry 5
  4. Ten on Ten
  5. Close Up 4
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Ivan0716
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#802

Post by Ivan0716 »

1. Like Someone in Love 2012 ★★★★½
2. Certified Copy 2010 ★★★★½
3. Close-Up 1990 ★★★★½
4. Taste of Cherry 1997 ★★★★
5. Shirin 2008 ★★★★
6. Where Is My Friend’s House? 1987 ★★★★
7. The Wind Will Carry Us 1999 ★★★★
8. Life, and Nothing More… 1992 ★★★½
9. Ten 2002 ★★★
10. The Traveler 1974 ★★★
11. 24 Frames 2017 ★★½
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OldAle1
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#803

Post by OldAle1 »

Time to move on....how about something a little different, a directing duo?

Danièle Huillet & Jean-Marie Straub

Here's what I said in response to prodigalgodson posting his favorite directors list (H-S were at #5):

probably every time I've written anything about one of their films I've mentioned how difficult they are; what sticks out is the absolute mastery of 20th century European history they have, and how they don't make any concessions to their audiences' possible lack of such knowledge. Half the time at least I really don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Still I always find them interesting and keep seeing more, albeit only occasionally. Favorite so far is definitely the Bach film but I suspect Not Reconciled will knock me out whenever I revisit it. And I would add that knowledge of socialism - as a philosophy as well as an economic system - and a great many other areas of high-culture would be helpful. No doubt the toughest filmmakers, from a narrative or content perspective, in my film-watching repertoire, and the difficulty is certainly enhanced by their style of typically inflectionless readings of the thorny texts they choose. Concentration is more important here than it is for any other filmmakers' work I know.

I'm including films credited to both partners and those listed just under Straub. I've seen each of these just once and none in the cinema; all of them were challenging and ratings or designations of quality are I think particularly meaningless here - the top film is the one I felt I "got" for the most part and enjoyed the most - the rest are ordered in some combination of a) how much I feel I understood and b) how interested I am in re-visiting, and trying to understand more. I probably should find a book on them as well.

GREAT
1. Chronik der Anna Magdalena Bach (1968)

EXCELLENT
2. Nicht versöhnt oder Es hilft nur Gewalt, wo Gewalt herrscht / Not Reconciled (1965)
3. Moses und Aron (1975)
4. Dalla nube alla resistenza / From the Clouds to the Resistance (1979)
5. Der Bräutigam, die Komödiantin und der Zuhälter / The Bridegroom, The Comedienne and the Pimp (1968)

VERY GOOD
6. Machorka-Muff (1963)
7. Lothringen! (1994)
8. Einleitung zu Arnold Schoenbergs Begleitmusik zu einer Lichtspielscene / Introduction to Arnold Schoenberg's Accompaniment to a Cinematic Scene (1973)
9. En rachâchant (1982)

GOOD
10. Umiliati (2003)
11. Toute révolution est un coup de dés / Every Revolution is a Throw of the Dice (1977)
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Torgo
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#804

Post by Torgo »

Ah, finally!

none so far
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OldAle1
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#805

Post by OldAle1 »

Torgo wrote: September 14th, 2021, 10:52 pm Ah, finally!

none so far
but... I tried to go the popular, box-office champion route!
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#806

Post by Torgo »

They're quite the ICM power couple though: 17 films on official lists!, a few of them short films of only 7 to 20 minutes length, others in the grey area of 40 to 60 minutes; a rewarding experience for the stat-hungry, check-whoring crowd who'd get only 1 Rivette check in the same time ..

I hand over to the next poster.
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Lilarcor
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#807

Post by Lilarcor »

Lots to watch and lots I look forward to, finding it difficult to find the right mood to watch their films though after a full workday. Although my first watch of Eyes.... didn't live up to the hype in the reviews I had read beforehand, it is a film that I have a strong memory of and want to revisit at some point. It wasn't the right film to follow Not Reconciled I guess..

Not Reconciled (1965) 8/10
Sicilia! (1999) 7/10
Eyes Do Not Want to Close at All Times, or, Perhaps One Day Rome Will Allow Herself to Choose in Her Turn (1970) 6/10
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Fergenaprido
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#808

Post by Fergenaprido »

Not my cup of tea.

1. 3.6 - Die Antigone des Sophokles nach der Hölderlinschen Übertragung für die Bühne bearbeitet von Brecht 1948 (Suhrkamp Verlag) [Antigone] (1992) - the only good thing about this is now I'm more familiar with the story, so watching future adaptations should be easier.

Shorts

1. 6.6 - En rachâchant (1982) - I don't remember anything about this.
🧚‍♂️🦫
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RBG
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#809

Post by RBG »

oldale i'll give you a hand

my favorites:

moses und aron (1975)
history lessons (1972)
othon (1970)
too early/too late (1981)
from the clouds to the resistance (1979)

followed by:

the chronicle of anna magdelena bach (1968)
antigone (1992)
sicilia! (1999)
der tod des empedokles (1987)
en rachachant (1962)

in summary, i seem to enjoy their earlier period most
icm + ltbxd

NO GODS NO MASTERS
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tobias
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#810

Post by tobias »

I'm a big fan of theirs, especially how they work with the material world, location, bodies, movements, gestures, etc. is often very focussed. I'm really excited for Empedokeles and Antigone still.

1. Zu Früh / Zu Spät
2. Nicht versöhnt oder Es hilft nur Gewalt wo Gewalt herrscht (Not Reconsiled)
3. Moses und Aron
4. Eyes do not want to close at all times... (Othon)
5. Chronik der Anna Magdalena Bach
6. Klassenverhältnisse
7. Der Bräutigam, die Komödiantin und der Zuhälter
8. Sicilia!
9. Dalla nube alla resistenza
10. En Rachachant
11. Machorka-Muff
12. Einleitung zu Arnold Schoenbergs Begleitmusik zu einer Lichtspielscene
13. La France contre les robots
14. Toute révolution est un coup de dés
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St. Gloede
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#811

Post by St. Gloede »

Jean-Marie Straub and Danièle Huillet are easily one of the most intriguing director duos in cinema, exciting both in terms of their appliance of extreme minimalism and theoretical framework. Based on the ratings below it should be quite clear that they hit their sweet spot for me at the very end of the 70s, which was the point when the level of artifice was tuned up ever so slightly and there were more experimentation with style and atmosphere. This did not always turn out well, for instance, their quite slight musical adaptation From Today Until Tomorrow - but it still looked stunning. In contrast, a film like Othon, which I somehow still liked a fair bit, was just stripped down to such an extreme that it mainly works as an exercise/experiment. I probably appreciate them slightly more on account of aesthetics and visceral value than I should, and may change my mind on certain works, especially their earliest films if I get more caught up in the theory behind it. That said, Trop tôt/Trop tard may also be one of their most extreme films and that managed to limp into my heart, if only by an inch.

Favourites

From the Clouds to the Resistance (1979)

Great

Sicily! (1999)
Class Relations (1984)
Antigone (1992)
Trop tôt/Trop tard (1981)

Very good

The Death of Empedocles (1987)
Othon (1970)

Good enough

Moses and Aaron (1975)
Cézanne - Conversation with Joachim Gasquet (1990)
Fortini/Cani (1976)

Mediocre

The Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach (1968) - Top rewatch priority
From Today Until Tomorrow (1997)

Poor

History Lessons (1972)
Not Reconciled (1965) - Should rewatch
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beavis
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#812

Post by beavis »

Intriguing indeed! I like the calm of the movies sometimes, and the political aspects, but the... frustrating... of the language, which seems to be their technique, is something that causes more dislike than wonderment for me... the same thing that trips me up with Bresson (with him more in the entire mis-en-scene not (just) the language). Dutch director Frans van der Staak was admired by Straub and Huillet and he also focusses on language and Bressonian techniques, but with him I always feel a deep sense of poetry coming through... maybe something is lost in translation when the language is not my mother tongue...?

1 . Sicilia! (1999) - 8
2 . Die Antigone des Sophokles nach der Hölderlinschen Übertragung für die Bühne bea (1992) - 7,5
3 . Dalla nube alla resistanza (1979) - 7,5
4 . Klassenverhältnisse (1984) - 7,5
5 . Geschichtsunterricht (1972) - 7,5
6 . Quei Loro Incontri (2006) - 7,5
7 . Der Tod des Empedokles oder: Wenn dann der Erde Grün von neuem Euch erglänzt (1987) - 7
8 . Trop tôt, trop tard (1982) - 7
9 . Nicht versöhnt oder Es hilft nur Gewalt wo Gewalt herrscht (1965) - 7
10 . Chronik der Anna Magdalena Bach (1968) - 6,5

also seen two shorts:
Artemis' Knee (2008)
Der Bräutigam, die Komödiantin und der Zuhälter (1968)

have some still on my watchlist for this year, so this list is a bit too little, too early ;)
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Onderhond
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#813

Post by Onderhond »

01. 1.5* - En Rachâchant

Very much with Fergenaprido on that one.
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brokenface
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#814

Post by brokenface »

I can't say i have got anything out of watching any of their films, they were just a chore on the way to completing tspdt that made me wonder why I was bothering.

So I probably didn't go in with the right mindset and not surprising I did not get much out. More a reflection on me than them, etc. Maybe in a decade or so I'll give them another go
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beavis
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#815

Post by beavis »

brokenface wrote: September 15th, 2021, 12:05 pm I can't say i have got anything out of watching any of their films, they were just a chore on the way to completing tspdt that made me wonder why I was bothering.

So I probably didn't go in with the right mindset and not surprising I did not get much out. More a reflection on me than them, etc. Maybe in a decade or so I'll give them another go
I get that; and a sensible description.
If something really feels like a chore and my only goal for it would be to complete a list, I wouldn't bother with it. For me the intriguing part is winning it from the frustrating part. They feel like a challenge more than a chore, and a good challenge at that.

This doc on their working method I found somewhat Illuminating
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/ou+ ... iquestion/

Besides reviews of specific works I haven't read or seen anything else about them... if I recall correctly... and they haven't engaged me enough, yet, that I would seek that out as a priority. The doc being made by Costa (reason enough to watch it) felt like it gave me some grip on what they want to achieve, which was good enough for me for now.
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OldAle1
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#816

Post by OldAle1 »

RBG wrote: September 15th, 2021, 12:11 am oldale i'll give you a hand

my favorites:

moses und aron (1975)
history lessons (1972)
othon (1970)
too early/too late (1981)
from the clouds to the resistance (1979)

followed by:

the chronicle of anna magdelena bach (1968)
antigone (1992)
sicilia! (1999)
der tod des empedokles (1987)
en rachachant (1962)

in summary, i seem to enjoy their earlier period most
:cheers:

Nice to see you again. I suppose on the whole I've gotten more out of the earlier films but it's really hard to say at this point.
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prodigalgodson
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#817

Post by prodigalgodson »

Since I hadn't seen any in a few years, just watched a few more to make sure, and yep, along with a handful of others (Tarkovsky, Hou, Bresson, Naruse), pretty much my ideal of narrative film form. Also I'd forgotten what gripping and entertaining work they make once you get keyed in to the style; I remember on FG3 describing Othon as like Game of Thrones, but better, and I can totally see why. So, thanks for the push Ale!

Othon 10
Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach
Sicilia!
Not Reconciled
Too Early, Too Late 9
Moses und Aron
A Visit to the Louvre
The Bridegroom, The Comedienne, and the Pimp
Artemis' Knee 8
Machorka-Muff 7
France Versus the Robots
Class Relations 6 - needs a rewatch, but I want to read Kafka's novel first

Think I've seen one or two other shorts too; need to hunt those down on YouTube again. The Bach one's the only one I've seen on film -- a monumental experience, to borrow one of Straub's favorite adjectives. Also I guess I saw Love Is Colder Than Death on film too, which contains the infamous car dolly from The Bridegroom, the Comedienne, and the Pimp.
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#818

Post by tobias »

prodigalgodson wrote: Yesterday, 5:31 am Since I hadn't seen any in a few years, just watched a few more to make sure, and yep, along with a handful of others (Tarkovsky, Hou, Bresson, Naruse), pretty much my ideal of narrative film form. Also I'd forgotten what gripping and entertaining work they make once you get keyed in to the style; I remember on FG3 describing Othon as like Game of Thrones, but better, and I can totally see why. So, thanks for the push Ale!

Othon 10
Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach
Sicilia!
Not Reconciled
Too Early, Too Late 9
Moses und Aron
A Visit to the Louvre
The Bridegroom, The Comedienne, and the Pimp
Artemis' Knee 8
Machorka-Muff 7
France Versus the Robots
Class Relations 6 - needs a rewatch, but I want to read Kafka's novel first

Think I've seen one or two other shorts too; need to hunt those down on YouTube again. The Bach one's the only one I've seen on film -- a monumental experience, to borrow one of Straub's favorite adjectives. Also I guess I saw Love Is Colder Than Death on film too, which contains the infamous car dolly from The Bridegroom, the Comedienne, and the Pimp.
That's a pretty apt description for Othon. It's very intense, especially if you don't speak french and have to keep up with the machine-gun dialouge by reading. It's really all about power games and for a Straub-Huilet film contains unusually involving performances, especially the leading woman. It's also very dramatical. I think if people take the film on its own terms, they might find that in many ways it is more conventional than it looks.

As for Class Relations I did actually read the novel before watching the film and it's interesting because to me it almost feels like they understand the content better than Kafka. I think Neil Bahadur made some very good observation about the film (here: https://letterboxd.com/neilbahadur/film ... lations/1/) and I would add that Straub-Huilet unearth the material undercurrent in Kafka's work. Alienation is not just being a foreigner but it's very much systematic. I also think the expressionism is in a way admirable but in a way perhaps not fully realised. I watched a video on YouTube cut to some music which seemed to show a way in which the images work that is not really obvious while watching the film, Karl always vanishes! I always found something inately inspiring in these aesthetics, in a way the film suggests grandless, like they finally go back to the silent era and reinvent cinema but then it's also so incomplete, still so dry in the face of something so striking as a boy being eradicated before our eyes. I have always been a bit torn about the film. Even though it's maybe their clearest narrative it's not as striking as say Othon, Not Reconciled or others (as you can see in my ranking it's rather in the middle) but still I can't keep myself from thinking that there is something fantastic within that never quite comes through.

Btw here is the video if it is of any interest:
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#819

Post by prodigalgodson »

tobias wrote: Yesterday, 6:38 am That's a pretty apt description for Othon. It's very intense, especially if you don't speak french and have to keep up with the machine-gun dialouge by reading. It's really all about power games and for a Straub-Huilet film contains unusually involving performances, especially the leading woman. It's also very dramatical. I think if people take the film on its own terms, they might find that in many ways it is more conventional than it looks.

As for Class Relations I did actually read the novel before watching the film and it's interesting because to me it almost feels like they understand the content better than Kafka. I think Neil Bahadur made some very good observation about the film (here: https://letterboxd.com/neilbahadur/film ... lations/1/) and I would add that Straub-Huilet unearth the material undercurrent in Kafka's work. Alienation is not just being a foreigner but it's very much systematic. I also think the expressionism is in a way admirable but in a way perhaps not fully realised. I watched a video on YouTube cut to some music which seemed to show a way in which the images work that is not really obvious while watching the film, Karl always vanishes! I always found something inately inspiring in these aesthetics, in a way the film suggests grandless, like they finally go back to the silent era and reinvent cinema but then it's also so incomplete, still so dry in the face of something so striking as a boy being eradicated before our eyes. I have always been a bit torn about the film. Even though it's maybe their clearest narrative it's not as striking as say Othon, Not Reconciled or others (as you can see in my ranking it's rather in the middle) but still I can't keep myself from thinking that there is something fantastic within that never quite comes through.

Btw here is the video if it is of any interest:
Thanks for the thoughts tobias! Interesting comment about silent film and (re-)inventing cinema within their means, that seems to be an explicit interest in the behind the scenes doc of Class Relations (Stroheim and Griffith are especially invoked).

I've gotta give Too Early, Too Late another spin soon too, as much as I loved it I feel like there was a lot I missed the first go-round.
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#820

Post by AB537 »

Sorry to say, but Straub-Huillet films really aren't my cup of tea. I saw a bunch a couple of years ago when MUBI did a retrospective, and just couldn't get into the style, particularly for some of their more stringently political work.

I did like The Chronicle of Anna Magdalena Bach, and thought Not Reconciled, and Moses and Aaron were fine. The others I saw would have received a "dislike" on ICM if I used that feature: From the Clouds to the Resistance, Too Early/Too Late, Sicilia, and Operai Contadini.
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#821

Post by Lakigigar »

For Howard:
3.5* - Rush
3.5* - A Beautiful Mind

He does what he has to do. Make good movies but nothing more than that. I expect the same for his other movies, although those two probably suit me best because of the themes. Need to watch Apollo someday too (although I think I already did someday, but I'm not sure if i finished it, and it was a very long time ago).
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