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#1521

Post by Torgo »

Lakigigar wrote: February 20th, 2021, 3:52 pm Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith
What the actual f...
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#1522

Post by zuma »

Excited for this update...except the sith.
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#1523

Post by Lakigigar »

It will probably fall off next year or in 2023, but at this point there should be enough alternatives for it.
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#1524

Post by edward5 »

There are 24 films from 2020 in the top1000, only Minari and Days(Tsai Ming-liang) are non-English speaking films.
It is ridiculous that Palm Springs (AKA Another remade of Groundhog Day) made it.
And a top reviewed Spanish film like The Year of the Discovery failed.
There are crammed English speaking critics' voters.
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#1525

Post by joachimt »

PA, do you have a useful spreadsheet to update this one as well?
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#1526

Post by GruesomeTwosome »

First Cow was the best new movie I saw last year, so I’m happy to see that it placed the highest out of the new crop.

Though it seems that, probably due to the pandemic limiting the number of new films, quite a few new entries made the list that probably wouldn’t have in a “normal” year. Stuff like The Invisible Man and the previously mentioned Palm Springs among others.
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#1527

Post by Ebbywebby »

Cool to see that David Byrne production slip in there. "First Cow" is the only new movie I've seen in over a year that really grabbed me.
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#1528

Post by Torgo »

edward5 wrote: February 20th, 2021, 7:20 pm There are 24 films from 2020 in the top1000, only Minari and Days(Tsai Ming-liang) are non-English speaking films.
It is ridiculous that Palm Springs (AKA Another remade of Groundhog Day) made it.
And a top reviewed Spanish film like The Year of the Discovery failed.
There are crammed English speaking critics' voters.
I don't usually have the feeling that the TSP lists are too American-/ English-skewed :blink: Take a look at the overall list, seriously. I guess the way the 2020-part looks has a lot to do with how the film year turned out due to Covid. Assumably many 'foreign' productions weren't properly released due to circumstances.

By the way, Palm Springs was one of 2020's greatest movies. :P So different to Groundhog Day. Like saying Interstellar was a remake of 2001. :yucky:
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#1529

Post by Teproc »

If you look at entries for the last year, it's always going to skew English, because those immediately reach their audience for the most part. This list is quite good at being pretty international for the most part, but it often takes a year or two: take Bacurau for example.

Revenge of the Sith is quite the headscratcher though.
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#1530

Post by edward5 »

And here is a good comparation
International Cinephile Society Awards Best PICTURE of 2020 (ICS award)
01. Dwelling in the Fuchun Mountains *
02. First Cow
03. Days *
04. Nomadland
05. Lingua Franca
06. Lovers Rock
07. La virgen de agosto *
08. A Portuguesa *
09. Bacurau *
10. If It Were Love *French/English
11. Never Rarely Sometimes Always
12. I’m Thinking of Ending Things
13. The Year of the Discovery *
14. The Wasteland *
15. Fauna *
16. Identifying Features *
17. The Works and Days (of Tayoko Shiojiri in the Shiotani Basin) *
18. Malmkrog *
19. The Disciple *
20. Residue
21. À l’abordage *
22. DAU. Degeneration *
23. Madre *
24. Undine *
25. Love Affair(s) *

* Non-English Speaking Films
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#1531

Post by Melvelet »

Lakigigar wrote: February 20th, 2021, 3:57 pm Mixed feelings, just think the list at a whole isn't very interesting, steered towards the earliest decade, American cinema, mediocre blockbusters (like what is Revenge of the Sith doing there) and arty-farty movies. I suppose it's not the worst list out there, but overall not a fan (also stop incl. fucking tv series)
My guess is that the 2010s will get a decent boost when the 2022 S&S Greatest Film results are included. Although I wonder what else is causing the bias towards the 2000s
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#1532

Post by cinewest »

edward5 wrote: February 20th, 2021, 7:20 pm There are 24 films from 2020 in the top1000, only Minari and Days(Tsai Ming-liang) are non-English speaking films.
It is ridiculous that Palm Springs (AKA Another remade of Groundhog Day) made it.
And a top reviewed Spanish film like The Year of the Discovery failed.
There are crammed English speaking critics' voters.
There is a reason for this: The majority of critics factored into the equation (mostly American or from English language countries) just haven’t seen most 2020 “foreign language” films yet, and so 2020 films not made in English will increase next year, and even the year after as more critics included in this poll get to see them.

That said, I agree that there are too many English language movies on the list, especially in an age where the entire world is producing good films. But, I really don’t see a fair way around that, as foreign critics are often more biased for American films than American critics.

Bottom line is that American, and English language films dominate the market, as well as define what the vast majority expect from a movie, and so they will receive more than their fair share of attention
Last edited by cinewest on February 21st, 2021, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1533

Post by cinewest »

Melvelet wrote: February 21st, 2021, 9:00 am
Lakigigar wrote: February 20th, 2021, 3:57 pm Mixed feelings, just think the list at a whole isn't very interesting, steered towards the earliest decade, American cinema, mediocre blockbusters (like what is Revenge of the Sith doing there) and arty-farty movies. I suppose it's not the worst list out there, but overall not a fan (also stop incl. fucking tv series)
My guess is that the 2010s will get a decent boost when the 2022 S&S Greatest Film results are included. Although I wonder what else is causing the bias towards the 2000s
In my opinion, the 2000”s might be the second best film decade after the 1960’s, and is significantly better than the 2010’s, but I think the bias here has more to do with appraisal over time
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#1534

Post by cinewest »

double post.
Last edited by cinewest on February 21st, 2021, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1535

Post by Lakigigar »

cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 12:31 pm
Melvelet wrote: February 21st, 2021, 9:00 am
Lakigigar wrote: February 20th, 2021, 3:57 pm Mixed feelings, just think the list at a whole isn't very interesting, steered towards the earliest decade, American cinema, mediocre blockbusters (like what is Revenge of the Sith doing there) and arty-farty movies. I suppose it's not the worst list out there, but overall not a fan (also stop incl. fucking tv series)
My guess is that the 2010s will get a decent boost when the 2022 S&S Greatest Film results are included. Although I wonder what else is causing the bias towards the 2000s
In my opinion, the 2000”s might be the second best film decade after the 1960’s, and is significantly better than the 2010’s, but I think the bias here has more to do with appraisal over time
In my top 250, 121 movies are from the 2010's (48 in top 100) - 432 seen
64 movies are from the 2000's (20 in top 100) - 312 seen
32 from the 1990's (ONLY 9 in top 100) - 99 seen
11 from the 1980's (7 in top 100) - 32 seen
12 from the 1970's (9 in top 100) - 23 seen
4 from the 1960's (3 in top 100) - 12 seen
5 from the 1950's (3 in top 100) - 14 seen
none from before that - 3 seen7
One seen from 2020, one in top 100 (WolfWalkers)

If we compare 2000's with 2010's
28% of what i've seen from 2010's enter top 250, 11% makes it into the top 100 WHILE
20,5% of what i've seen from 2000's enter top 250, 6,4% makes it into top 100

That being said, I believe i've seen more critically acclaimed movies from the 2010's than from the 2000's, where i've seen more mainstream movies and blockbusters, but in terms of blockbusters, mainstream movies and cult, i believe the 2010's are far better since there's more focus on audiovisual experiences and better cinematography (like one take films).
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#1536

Post by cinewest »

cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 12:32 pm
edward5 wrote: February 21st, 2021, 6:48 am And here is a good comparation
International Cinephile Society Awards Best PICTURE of 2020 (ICS award)
01. Dwelling in the Fuchun Mountains *
02. First Cow
03. Days *
04. Nomadland
05. Lingua Franca
06. Lovers Rock
07. La virgen de agosto *
08. A Portuguesa *
09. Bacurau *
10. If It Were Love *French/English
11. Never Rarely Sometimes Always
12. I’m Thinking of Ending Things
13. The Year of the Discovery *
14. The Wasteland *
15. Fauna *
16. Identifying Features *
17. The Works and Days (of Tayoko Shiojiri in the Shiotani Basin) *
18. Malmkrog *
19. The Disciple *
20. Residue
21. À l’abordage *
22. DAU. Degeneration *
23. Madre *
24. Undine *
25. Love Affair(s) *

* Non-English Speaking Films
Thanks for posting that list. I have half of those foreign language films on my "to see" list already, but this list has helped me add to my own
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#1537

Post by cinewest »

Lakigigar wrote: February 21st, 2021, 12:55 pm
cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 12:31 pm
Melvelet wrote: February 21st, 2021, 9:00 am

My guess is that the 2010s will get a decent boost when the 2022 S&S Greatest Film results are included. Although I wonder what else is causing the bias towards the 2000s
In my opinion, the 2000”s might be the second best film decade after the 1960’s, and is significantly better than the 2010’s, but I think the bias here has more to do with appraisal over time
In my top 250, 121 movies are from the 2010's (48 in top 100) - 432 seen
64 movies are from the 2000's (20 in top 100) - 312 seen
32 from the 1990's (ONLY 9 in top 100) - 99 seen
11 from the 1980's (7 in top 100) - 32 seen
12 from the 1970's (9 in top 100) - 23 seen
4 from the 1960's (3 in top 100) - 12 seen
5 from the 1950's (3 in top 100) - 14 seen
none from before that - 3 seen7
One seen from 2020, one in top 100 (WolfWalkers)

If we compare 2000's with 2010's
28% of what i've seen from 2010's enter top 250, 11% makes it into the top 100 WHILE
20,5% of what i've seen from 2000's enter top 250, 6,4% makes it into top 100

That being said, I believe i've seen more critically acclaimed movies from the 2010's than from the 2000's, where i've seen more mainstream movies and blockbusters, but in terms of blockbusters, mainstream movies and cult, i believe the 2010's are far better since there's more focus on audiovisual experiences and better cinematography (like one take films).
You seem to be riding a confirmation bias based on the percentages of what you have actually seen decade by decade< which as you have noted is heavily weighted towards the 2010's. As for your notion that the 2010's offers more interesting "audio visual" experiences, and better cinematography, I think you are mistaken. Once again the same "confirmation bias" comes into play, though it could be that you just happen to resonate more with the nature of 2010 films, which could be a "cultural" / "generational" thing.
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#1538

Post by Lakigigar »

cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 1:08 pm
Lakigigar wrote: February 21st, 2021, 12:55 pm
cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 12:31 pm

In my opinion, the 2000”s might be the second best film decade after the 1960’s, and is significantly better than the 2010’s, but I think the bias here has more to do with appraisal over time
In my top 250, 121 movies are from the 2010's (48 in top 100) - 432 seen
64 movies are from the 2000's (20 in top 100) - 312 seen
32 from the 1990's (ONLY 9 in top 100) - 99 seen
11 from the 1980's (7 in top 100) - 32 seen
12 from the 1970's (9 in top 100) - 23 seen
4 from the 1960's (3 in top 100) - 12 seen
5 from the 1950's (3 in top 100) - 14 seen
none from before that - 3 seen7
One seen from 2020, one in top 100 (WolfWalkers)

If we compare 2000's with 2010's
28% of what i've seen from 2010's enter top 250, 11% makes it into the top 100 WHILE
20,5% of what i've seen from 2000's enter top 250, 6,4% makes it into top 100

That being said, I believe i've seen more critically acclaimed movies from the 2010's than from the 2000's, where i've seen more mainstream movies and blockbusters, but in terms of blockbusters, mainstream movies and cult, i believe the 2010's are far better since there's more focus on audiovisual experiences and better cinematography (like one take films).
You seem to be riding a confirmation bias based on the percentages of what you have actually seen decade by decade< which as you have noted is heavily weighted towards the 2010's. As for your notion that the 2010's offers more interesting "audio visual" experiences, and better cinematography, I think you are mistaken. Once again the same "confirmation bias" comes into play, though it could be that you just happen to resonate more with the nature of 2010 films, which could be a "cultural" / "generational" thing.
46.55% from all movies i've seen are produced in the 2010's. 33.62% from 2000's. It's heavily noted towards the 21st century, not just 2010's. I've seen more from the 2010''s, but a bigger percentage of the 2010's pool of movies makes it into the toplist than the 2000's movies. I probably watched more "trash" from the 2000's, while being more selective of the 2010's, which could partly explain it.

But the 2010's have more NWR-type of movies, more purplewave movies, more 80's revival which is also very stylistic, better arthouse coming-of-age films, and 2000's movies are already showing painfully it's age in some cases (esp. early 2000's), since cinema keeps evolving.
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#1539

Post by cinewest »

Lakigigar wrote: February 21st, 2021, 1:16 pm
cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 1:08 pm
Lakigigar wrote: February 21st, 2021, 12:55 pm
In my top 250, 121 movies are from the 2010's (48 in top 100) - 432 seen
64 movies are from the 2000's (20 in top 100) - 312 seen
32 from the 1990's (ONLY 9 in top 100) - 99 seen
11 from the 1980's (7 in top 100) - 32 seen
12 from the 1970's (9 in top 100) - 23 seen
4 from the 1960's (3 in top 100) - 12 seen
5 from the 1950's (3 in top 100) - 14 seen
none from before that - 3 seen7
One seen from 2020, one in top 100 (WolfWalkers)

If we compare 2000's with 2010's
28% of what i've seen from 2010's enter top 250, 11% makes it into the top 100 WHILE
20,5% of what i've seen from 2000's enter top 250, 6,4% makes it into top 100

That being said, I believe i've seen more critically acclaimed movies from the 2010's than from the 2000's, where i've seen more mainstream movies and blockbusters, but in terms of blockbusters, mainstream movies and cult, i believe the 2010's are far better since there's more focus on audiovisual experiences and better cinematography (like one take films).
You seem to be riding a confirmation bias based on the percentages of what you have actually seen decade by decade< which as you have noted is heavily weighted towards the 2010's. As for your notion that the 2010's offers more interesting "audio visual" experiences, and better cinematography, I think you are mistaken. Once again the same "confirmation bias" comes into play, though it could be that you just happen to resonate more with the nature of 2010 films, which could be a "cultural" / "generational" thing.
46.55% from all movies i've seen are produced in the 2010's. 33.62% from 2000's. It's heavily noted towards the 21st century, not just 2010's. I've seen more from the 2010''s, but a bigger percentage of the 2010's pool of movies makes it into the toplist than the 2000's movies. I probably watched more "trash" from the 2000's, while being more selective of the 2010's, which could partly explain it.

But the 2010's have more NWR-type of movies, more purplewave movies, more 80's revival which is also very stylistic, better arthouse coming-of-age films, and 2000's movies are already showing painfully it's age in some cases (esp. early 2000's), since cinema keeps evolving.
You have probably explained it, here, and maybe the only way your notion would change is if you do. Age, more and broader experience, opening up to things one doesn't already have a taste for, etc... I agree the cinema is always evolving,* but hopefully so are we.

*evolution isn't a continual arch of progression, either, and my own study of film history has shown that some decades have been richer than others, for example the infamous 60's, though interestingly enough it was a time when Hollywood nearly went belly up, and the richness of that decade in film is largely non-English speaking.
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#1540

Post by GruesomeTwosome »

Lakigigar wrote: February 21st, 2021, 1:16 pm
cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 1:08 pm
Lakigigar wrote: February 21st, 2021, 12:55 pm
In my top 250, 121 movies are from the 2010's (48 in top 100) - 432 seen
64 movies are from the 2000's (20 in top 100) - 312 seen
32 from the 1990's (ONLY 9 in top 100) - 99 seen
11 from the 1980's (7 in top 100) - 32 seen
12 from the 1970's (9 in top 100) - 23 seen
4 from the 1960's (3 in top 100) - 12 seen
5 from the 1950's (3 in top 100) - 14 seen
none from before that - 3 seen7
One seen from 2020, one in top 100 (WolfWalkers)

If we compare 2000's with 2010's
28% of what i've seen from 2010's enter top 250, 11% makes it into the top 100 WHILE
20,5% of what i've seen from 2000's enter top 250, 6,4% makes it into top 100

That being said, I believe i've seen more critically acclaimed movies from the 2010's than from the 2000's, where i've seen more mainstream movies and blockbusters, but in terms of blockbusters, mainstream movies and cult, i believe the 2010's are far better since there's more focus on audiovisual experiences and better cinematography (like one take films).
You seem to be riding a confirmation bias based on the percentages of what you have actually seen decade by decade< which as you have noted is heavily weighted towards the 2010's. As for your notion that the 2010's offers more interesting "audio visual" experiences, and better cinematography, I think you are mistaken. Once again the same "confirmation bias" comes into play, though it could be that you just happen to resonate more with the nature of 2010 films, which could be a "cultural" / "generational" thing.
46.55% from all movies i've seen are produced in the 2010's. 33.62% from 2000's. It's heavily noted towards the 21st century, not just 2010's. I've seen more from the 2010''s, but a bigger percentage of the 2010's pool of movies makes it into the toplist than the 2000's movies. I probably watched more "trash" from the 2000's, while being more selective of the 2010's, which could partly explain it.

But the 2010's have more NWR-type of movies, more purplewave movies, more 80's revival which is also very stylistic, better arthouse coming-of-age films, and 2000's movies are already showing painfully it's age in some cases (esp. early 2000's), since cinema keeps evolving.
“Purplewave” movies? Say what now?
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#1541

Post by Lakigigar »

GruesomeTwosome wrote: February 21st, 2021, 6:40 pm
Lakigigar wrote: February 21st, 2021, 1:16 pm
cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 1:08 pm

You seem to be riding a confirmation bias based on the percentages of what you have actually seen decade by decade< which as you have noted is heavily weighted towards the 2010's. As for your notion that the 2010's offers more interesting "audio visual" experiences, and better cinematography, I think you are mistaken. Once again the same "confirmation bias" comes into play, though it could be that you just happen to resonate more with the nature of 2010 films, which could be a "cultural" / "generational" thing.
46.55% from all movies i've seen are produced in the 2010's. 33.62% from 2000's. It's heavily noted towards the 21st century, not just 2010's. I've seen more from the 2010''s, but a bigger percentage of the 2010's pool of movies makes it into the toplist than the 2000's movies. I probably watched more "trash" from the 2000's, while being more selective of the 2010's, which could partly explain it.

But the 2010's have more NWR-type of movies, more purplewave movies, more 80's revival which is also very stylistic, better arthouse coming-of-age films, and 2000's movies are already showing painfully it's age in some cases (esp. early 2000's), since cinema keeps evolving.
“Purplewave” movies? Say what now?
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PURPLEWAVE: Surrealist Sci-Fi / Horror Dripping in Pink and Blue

Starting with Panos Cosmatos' 2010 sci-fi giallo weirdie, BEYOND THE BLACK RAINBOW, a thread of psychedelic, visually stunning and narratively minimalist filmmaking has been sending ripples across indie circles. This list covers them.

It's not complete, there are more to be added. I might add some RYM lists to ICM (i have 2 I want to add). He was going to add Like Me. Perhaps The Guest, L'etrange couleur des larmes de ton corps and Amer could be added as influences. I haven't seen the latter two, but i'm going to later.
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#1542

Post by Ebbywebby »

I have a glaring chronological bias, and it's even more extreme than favoring an entire decade. The brief period from 1966 through 1972 has weirdly dominated my check history for a long time. It's probably not coincidence that this is basically "the hippie era" (which I didn't really experience firsthand), though it's partly because short film had its heyday around then.

Years where I have the most checks
1966: 241 checks, including 143 shorts
1968: 234 checks
1967, 1969, 1971: 224 checks
1972: 217 checks
1970: 212 checks
.........big drop.........
1974: a mere 179 checks

And what am I in the middle of right now? A movie from 1970.

I have 50 features on my watchlist, and 13 of them (including the top three) are from 1966-1972.
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#1543

Post by Lakigigar »

For music, i tend to listen more to 1967 to 1972 than other years in the 1970's, but I don't see such a trend in movies, even if i look at movies on my short watchlist, for that age it's evenly distributed from 1960 to 1980.

My best years are:
2015: 74 (and I haven't seen Mad Max: Fury Road and The Hateful Eight LOL)
2014: 63
2016: 52
2013: 50
2011: 47
2012: 43
2010: 42
2005: 41
2007: 39
2009: 36
2008: 36
2004: 36
2006: 33
2017: 27
2003: 25
2000: 24
2001: 23
2002: 20
1997: 20

2018 only 18 and 2019 only 11.
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#1544

Post by St. Gloede »

40% of the films you have seen from the 70s are in your top 100, that's a pretty incredible success rate.

For me I'd say the 60s and 70s are undoubtedly the greatest decades for film (and music), with the general peak, just in sheer volume of greatness being in the late 60s, early 70s (the year I have seen the most from us '72, followed by' 70 and '71).

I used to lean on the 70s as my favourite decade, but as I've gotten older, and rewatch ING more, the 60s have been putting up a stronger and stronger case. This is the time when cinema flipped, arthouse exploded, New waves were popping up everyone and the number of incredible directors shot through the roof. If you like the vibe of the music, you'll most likely enjoy the vibe of the films too.
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#1545

Post by Onderhond »

My top 5:
2016 - 465
2014 - 441
2017 - 437
2015 - 411
2013 - 409

Top 5 in my toplist:
2009 - 47
2010 - 39
2007 - 39
2006 - 38
2004 - 38

Guess I like the 00s a bit better than the 10s so far, even though that's where my main focus lies.
cinewest wrote: February 21st, 2021, 1:08 pm As for your notion that the 2010's offers more interesting "audio visual" experiences, and better cinematography, I think you are mistaken.
If only I got 5 cent for every time that discussion popped up B)
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#1546

Post by Ebbywebby »

St. Gloede wrote: February 21st, 2021, 10:25 pm For me I'd say the 60s and 70s are undoubtedly the greatest decades for film (and music), with the general peak, just in sheer volume of greatness being in the late 60s, early 70s (the year I have seen the most from us '72, followed by' 70 and '71).
So you're pretty much in agreement with me. Including shorts, I've seen the most films from 1966 and 1968. But counting features alone, 1970-1972 rule my world. I've checked 134 features from 1971, 130 from 1970 and 116 from 1972. My top three years.
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#1547

Post by cinewest »

St. Gloede wrote: February 21st, 2021, 10:25 pm 40% of the films you have seen from the 70s are in your top 100, that's a pretty incredible success rate.

For me I'd say the 60s and 70s are undoubtedly the greatest decades for film (and music), with the general peak, just in sheer volume of greatness being in the late 60s, early 70s (the year I have seen the most from us '72, followed by' 70 and '71).

I used to lean on the 70s as my favourite decade, but as I've gotten older, and rewatch ING more, the 60s have been putting up a stronger and stronger case. This is the time when cinema flipped, arthouse exploded, New waves were popping up everyone and the number of incredible directors shot through the roof. If you like the vibe of the music, you'll most likely enjoy the vibe of the films too.
I used to bemoan the fact that I was born just a tad too late (1960) to really be part of that generation, which was mostly born in the 1940’s, and though I was somewhat aware of what was going on (especially in SanFrancisco where I grew up), I was too young to really take part as it was happening.

My own generation was a bore by comparison, and I particularly disliked the popular culture of the 80’s, when I came of age. Thankfully, I was able to dive into the cultural expression of previous generations by delving into history and the arts. And though I made wondrous discoveries, I was usually alone in my celebration.

That said, I have not continued to live in the past, and found that the generation after mine embraced many of the things I was into, and began producing interesting things themselves.

I have continued to stay in touch with the evolution of film, as well as derive great pleasure from discovering great films in the era I am living, at the time I am living it, and I believe the worldwide explosion in filmmaking that only partially occurred in the 60’s, really took off in the mid 90’s and beginning of this century, during which time my own excitement about movies was reinvigorated.
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#1548

Post by St. Gloede »

I don't think I ever felt out of place, as every generation creates a massive number of great films. The only difference with the 60s/70s, based on my preferences and what I have seen - the rate was much higher. I'd also never bemoan coming in at a time when we quickly got access to all these great films.

If I were ever to bemoan missing the 60s/70s it would be for the music, as there are so many bands and musicians I could not see live.
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#1549

Post by cinewest »

St. Gloede wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 8:13 am I don't think I ever felt out of place, as every generation creates a massive number of great films. The only difference with the 60s/70s, based on my preferences and what I have seen - the rate was much higher. I'd also never bemoan coming in at a time when we quickly got access to all these great films.

If I were ever to bemoan missing the 60s/70s it would be for the music, as there are so many bands and musicians I could not see live.
It wasn't just the music of that time, but the entire countercultural movement, and general rebellion of youth around the world. As with film, during the 80's my own explorations led me to various niche interests (I was able to catch, for example, many of the great jazz ensembles of the 50's and 60's in small clubs before they passed on), and I was able to see pre-80's classic films in a multitude of revival movie theaters that existed around San Francisco prior to video stores putting most of them out of business by the end of the decade.

What was missing for me wasn't the access to what I was interested in but the lack of a social context that was buzzing with excitement for something (like a social, cultural, intellectual, or political movement) that was "happening" at that time. My own youthful passions just didn't jibe with what was fashionable or even "hip" at the time.

I don't mean to make too much of this, as I have connected to people and cultures, and cultivated interests contemporaneously all over the world since, and perhaps in part because I felt somewhat estranged from my own peers and cultural context of my early adulthood.
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#1550

Post by St. Gloede »

Ebbywebby wrote: February 21st, 2021, 11:53 pm
St. Gloede wrote: February 21st, 2021, 10:25 pm For me I'd say the 60s and 70s are undoubtedly the greatest decades for film (and music), with the general peak, just in sheer volume of greatness being in the late 60s, early 70s (the year I have seen the most from us '72, followed by' 70 and '71).
So you're pretty much in agreement with me. Including shorts, I've seen the most films from 1966 and 1968. But counting features alone, 1970-1972 rule my world. I've checked 134 features from 1971, 130 from 1970 and 116 from 1972. My top three years.
:cheers: I wonder if this is a coincidence or a more common phenomenon.
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#1551

Post by St. Gloede »

cinewest wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 8:58 am It wasn't just the music of that time, but the entire countercultural movement, and general rebellion of youth around the world.
True, and not just the youth - the political environment of the 60s and 70s was certainly one of hope and possibilities, especially when seen in retrospect, but then again, that was all crushed - so I'm not sure if I would have enjoyed that blow.
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#1552

Post by tobias »

Lakigigar wrote: February 20th, 2021, 3:57 pm Mixed feelings, just think the list at a whole isn't very interesting, steered towards the earliest decade, American cinema, mediocre blockbusters (like what is Revenge of the Sith doing there) and arty-farty movies. I suppose it's not the worst list out there, but overall not a fan (also stop incl. fucking tv series)

Respire is somewhere around 2500, but my all-time favourite movie even isn't in the list of 9000 movies. Morons! Luckily it's in the top 20 of ICM <400 checks movies, but it has over 400 checks now.

Glad with Neon Demon and Mandy, but we lose Victoria and Climax instead. Doesn't make much sense. Also glad with LONG DAY'S JOURNEY INTO NIGHT and ON BODY AND SOUL which i both haven't seen. Very surprised with After Lucia, considering what we lose (it's now official). Losing Your Name is weird though, but it has many back-up lists to stay official.

I think of the ones I care Climax is in danger of losing official status, but it might return next year or in a few years. It should. It's the best Noé movie, IMO.
Revenge of the Sith is one of the greats, definitely belongs way higher on the list :worship:

Oh, and On Body and Soul is quite good, I don't really like the kind of genre (at least what Hollywood makes of it) but this is actually a very good take on it, with some very good imaginary visuals, also some gorgeous use of long lenses (l)

Out of curiosity what is your favourite film?

Edit: Anyone seen the Steve McQueen stuff? I'm not his biggest fan but it looks interesting.
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#1553

Post by Lakigigar »

tobias wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 6:53 pm
Lakigigar wrote: February 20th, 2021, 3:57 pm Mixed feelings, just think the list at a whole isn't very interesting, steered towards the earliest decade, American cinema, mediocre blockbusters (like what is Revenge of the Sith doing there) and arty-farty movies. I suppose it's not the worst list out there, but overall not a fan (also stop incl. fucking tv series)

Respire is somewhere around 2500, but my all-time favourite movie even isn't in the list of 9000 movies. Morons! Luckily it's in the top 20 of ICM <400 checks movies, but it has over 400 checks now.

Glad with Neon Demon and Mandy, but we lose Victoria and Climax instead. Doesn't make much sense. Also glad with LONG DAY'S JOURNEY INTO NIGHT and ON BODY AND SOUL which i both haven't seen. Very surprised with After Lucia, considering what we lose (it's now official). Losing Your Name is weird though, but it has many back-up lists to stay official.

I think of the ones I care Climax is in danger of losing official status, but it might return next year or in a few years. It should. It's the best Noé movie, IMO.
Revenge of the Sith is one of the greats, definitely belongs way higher on the list :worship:

Oh, and On Body and Soul is quite good, I don't really like the kind of genre (at least what Hollywood makes of it) but this is actually a very good take on it, with some very good imaginary visuals, also some gorgeous use of long lenses (l)

Out of curiosity what is your favourite film?
Kreuzweg [Stations of the Cross], perhaps a weird pick (esp. given my taste) but everything felt together.

The Neon Demon (beauty isn't everything it's the only thing)
Suspiria (amazing experience, very hypnotic, right up my alley, and big influence on most movies I like now)
Respire (most emotional experience ever)
Eyes Wide Shut (One of the first movies that i've seen out of the ones I name - even before Neon Demon i believe)
The Tale of Princess Kaguya (Very emotional, absorbed me, and deeply-layered/deeply philosophical fairytale that changed my worldview. Only seen it 2 weeks ago)
Blade Runner (the detail in this movie is stunning, in terms of what this movies does with lightning and set design, you know it will never get better than this. Very stylish, extremely atmospheric)
Heathers (That dark humor, that atmosphere. I love it!)

Other HM:
Midsommar (I really like the theme, Aster's style and more)
Home (i'm planning to study psychology and am selected to be a volunteer for youth mental health support. This movie shows me why i do it. If i ever directed a movie, this will get very close to what I'll do)
Assassination Nation (I loved it so much)
Victoria (one night, one take, hell of an experience. I also love one take movies, not one has disappointed me)
Nightcrawler (deeply layered and original thriller, with lots of suspense. Also very well shot, but it's the message that tilts it this high)
Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter... And Spring (So freaking beautiful)
Spring Breakers (I really liked it as a movie, very coloured, well shot, but the satire makes it deeply layered)

The movies that got me into film I still like The Exorcist, City of God and Taxi Driver. Mean Creek and Wolf Creek are HM's too. Except for Taxi Driver, all seen as a teenager
The Exorcist is a movie i've seen when I was 16. My Dad never knew I watched it. I think it's one of the first horrors i've ever seen and all my friends said it was boring and bad. But I liked it. It was my favourite movie. I think i've seen it in summer 2012 when i was 16. My best friend said it was a copy of Scary Movie 2 i think LOL.
Wolf Creek: I saw it in 2008, 2009 or 2010 together with my step mom. She doesn't like horror's. I've never seen a horror before. We both like it. She probably has seen it 5 times. It's the only horror movies she watches. I also (still) like it.
Mean Creek: Watched it at school when i was 14 or 15, but hell yeah I love my religion teacher to force us to watch that. I've seen it two times and I really like it.
City of God: I've probably seen it when I was 16-17-18. I really loved i and it became my new fav movie. Watched it 2 or 3 times, but it's been a while ago. No other gangster / mob movie ever beat this, because the favelas are a more interesting setting and more realistic / contemporary. But it didn't made me watch me more movies, it would be the following
Taxi Driver: I loved it. This movie is very atmospheric and I loved everything about this. Before this, i only watched yeah commercial stuff. This changed my taste, made me go to the cinema for the first time alone, and made me watch different movies (slowly)

Victoria and The Neon Demon were gamechangers too. Spring Breakers perhaps too. Spring Breakers is the movie I rewatched the most.
Last edited by Lakigigar on February 22nd, 2021, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#1554

Post by tobias »

Re: the decade discussion. I tend to agree with cinewest that the 2000s were a pretty strong decade with a lot of really diverse stuff going on. Though I'm tending towards the earlier half being kinda stronger. There was this weird time inbetween the fall of the USSR and 9/11 where people wrote books like the end of history. I think in the arts and in public perception this is really shifted a few years backwards. So it's more '93/'94 til 2005 or so where there is a certain aimlessness in films that is very interesting. Like nothing will ever happen anymore. 2 particularly interesting films to me are for example Demonlover and Suicide Club which both hit that feeling perfectly, Elephant in another one or US Go Home or lovely independent stuff like Primer or Blairwitch Project. It really feels like we're opening the carcass of cinema in a way that previous decades didn't dare.

However I have to admit, I filtered through my favourite films list and it skews very heavily towards the 60's through 80's. It's far away from a perfect sample size (309 films and biased with regards to what I watched and didn't watch) but it ranks as folows in terms of number of films: 60s>70s>80s>50s>90s>40s>2000s>30s>20s>2010s>1910s.

I previously had a much longer list which didn't skew as hard. For example on my old top 500 list which was last updated almost 3 years ago the 90s narrowly edge out the 80s and 50s and the 2000s beat the 40s.

All of that being said I really love the 80s, mostly for the stuff that wasn't made in the USA. France alone gives the US a beating in that decade.
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#1555

Post by Lakigigar »

In terms of music, Grimes - Halfaxa changed my life literally. I don't get why it's so underrated. Because of this album i started exploring music. I never found something which overtook it, but it had some successes (FKA Twigs - Magdalene comes closest I believe, even more than other Grimes' albums. Bjork - Vespertine also has a similar vibe). Kate Bush does have it too in some albums (the eclectic thing that separates it, but that you can listen a million times) and the Twins too.

HM's:
My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
Slowdive - Souvlaki
FKA Twigs - Magdalene
All of Cocteau Twins's discography
The Cure - Disintegration
The Velvet Underground - The Velvet Underground & Nico
Yeule - Serotonin II
Panda Bear - Person Pitch
All of Yukari's and Aseul's discography

I haven't seen many tv-series, but there is one clear number one:
The End of the F**cking World (which would be in my top 10 perhaps top 5 best movies list)

All other tv shows wouldn't make it into the top 250, exc. for first season of Prison Break but season 4 is so bad it wouldn't make it anymore.

Image

I want to watch these though most... (incl. season 2 of The End of the F**cking World)
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#1556

Post by tobias »

@ Lakigigar - Really didn't expect Kreuzweg, lol. I've actually seen it. I remember liking it, especially the way it made small observations along the way but I found Brüggeman's approach quite conservative. I definitely prefer someone like say Maren Ade myself.

I think we're actually similarly old (I was born in '96) but it seems we have very different tastes. I also got into film when I was 16 but my entry drugs were Kubrick, Murnau, Chaplin, Lang, Tarkovsky, even some Griffith and Ophüls (I was also very enamoured with visuals then). I was one of the guys who thought the Excorcist was boring (I also watched it when I was 16) and I was disappointed by City of God too. I'm also not a big fan of Victoria, really, though that's mostly the script and the direction (it feels very conveniently cobbled together and falls apart quickly for me), I think Grøvlen does a really good job as a DP (I actually met him twice last year). His career is going very strong too.

However Eyes Wide Shot is actually also in my top 5 and I also like some of the others you mentioned. I watched Spring Breakers with a friend around the time we finished school. That was a lot of fun.

Btw what's your thoughts on De Palma? It feels like you'd like his stuff a lot (stuff like Blow Out, Carlito's Way, Femme Fatale, Phantom of the Paradise, Dressed to Kill). He's long been my favourite of the movie brat guys. I also could see you liking Assayas and Denis.

Oh yeah and I also like Soulavki a lot.
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#1557

Post by xianjiro »

cinewest wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 8:58 am
St. Gloede wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 8:13 am I don't think I ever felt out of place, as every generation creates a massive number of great films. The only difference with the 60s/70s, based on my preferences and what I have seen - the rate was much higher. I'd also never bemoan coming in at a time when we quickly got access to all these great films.

If I were ever to bemoan missing the 60s/70s it would be for the music, as there are so many bands and musicians I could not see live.
It wasn't just the music of that time, but the entire countercultural movement, and general rebellion of youth around the world. As with film, during the 80's my own explorations led me to various niche interests (I was able to catch, for example, many of the great jazz ensembles of the 50's and 60's in small clubs before they passed on), and I was able to see pre-80's classic films in a multitude of revival movie theaters that existed around San Francisco prior to video stores putting most of them out of business by the end of the decade.

What was missing for me wasn't the access to what I was interested in but the lack of a social context that was buzzing with excitement for something (like a social, cultural, intellectual, or political movement) that was "happening" at that time. My own youthful passions just didn't jibe with what was fashionable or even "hip" at the time.

I don't mean to make too much of this, as I have connected to people and cultures, and cultivated interests contemporaneously all over the world since, and perhaps in part because I felt somewhat estranged from my own peers and cultural context of my early adulthood.
You were in San Francisco in the 80s "but the lack of a social context that was buzzing with excitement for something (like a social, cultural, intellectual, or political movement) that was "happening" at that time."

I'm really not sure what to make of how you were able to insulate yourself from that epidemic. And it's not like AIDS was the only thing happening at the time either. There was a honest backlash against Reagan and I have to believe San Francisco didn't sit that one out since it can't be divorced from AIDS.

Sorry, guess "fighting for our lives" and "Silence = Death" just wasn't nearly as hip and cool as the Summer of Love and Haight-Ashbury but counter-cultural movements were quite alive and well in the 80s. Maybe if you'd ventured south of Market a bit ... I don't really mean this to read like a personal attack, but your post does feel a bit dismissive of my formative years and I didn't have anything like the luxury of living in a place were social movements and counter-culture were accepted let alone celebrated. I had no choice but to be immersed in the straight world. I could have easily chosen to make that world very Anglo as well as lots of people living on the border in Texas still do.

Could it be that by choosing to focus on the niche interests you ignored or forgot about what was actually happening in the world at the time? I think people have been doing this as of late - by immersing themselves in superhero fantasies and mega-conspiracy theories they can escape from the real-world ordeals of political and viral upheaval.

Honestly, I can't think of a time in my entire life that wasn't happening.
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#1558

Post by Lakigigar »

tobias wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 8:07 pm @ Lakigigar - Really didn't expect Kreuzweg, lol. I've actually seen it. I remember liking it, especially the way it made small observations along the way but I found Brüggeman's approach quite conservative. I definitely prefer someone like say Maren Ade myself.

I think we're actually similarly old (I was born in '96) but it seems we have very different tastes. I also got into film when I was 16 but my entry drugs were Kubrick, Murnau, Chaplin, Lang, Tarkovsky, even some Griffith and Ophüls (I was also very enamoured with visuals then). I was one of the guys who thought the Excorcist was boring (I also watched it when I was 16) and I was disappointed by City of God too. I'm also not a big fan of Victoria, really, though that's mostly the script and the direction (it feels very conveniently cobbled together and falls apart quickly for me), I think Grøvlen does a really good job as a DP (I actually met him twice last year). His career is going very strong too.

However Eyes Wide Shot is actually also in my top 5 and I also like some of the others you mentioned. I watched Spring Breakers with a friend around the time we finished school. That was a lot of fun.

Btw what's your thoughts on De Palma? It feels like you'd like his stuff a lot (stuff like Blow Out, Carlito's Way, Femme Fatale, Phantom of the Paradise, Dressed to Kill). He's long been my favourite of the movie brat guys. I also could see you liking Assayas and Denis.

Oh yeah and I also like Soulavki a lot.
Nothing wrong with different tastes. On ICM i think Onderhond comes closest to me (could not have noticed someone else), and Onderhond's taste is so apart that the difference between me & him is still insanely large, so i feel out of place here (but I still like it). My biggest annoyance is that there's not a single good official list for me. Ironically the list I like the most I've ever seen made by people is ICM's Favourite Unofficial Movies (lol), but I might have had unexpectedly a strong influence on that list, and luck (always 1 or 2 other people helping me voting a movie up, making it appear in the list, and because there's such a large pool of unofficial movies to choose from it's usually enough to have 2 or 3 voters.

I like Kubrick, but haven't explored the others. I hope i'll like Solyaris, which is going to be my first Tarkovsky for sure, but I'm afraid I won't like it. I'm less interested in the others.

I've only seen Carrie and Scarface from De Palma. I like Carrie a lot (just outside top 50), but I thought Scarface was only average or slightly above average and a bit too long. Couldn't concentrate on it very well. Haven't seen the ones you mentioned, but someday i'll explore it.

Not seen a movie from Denis and Assayas. Personal Shopper is on my watchlist. I've seen Clouds of Sils Maria also being mentioned here a lot. Claire Denis is not someone i was going to delve in soon.

I'm also starting to really like Cronenberg!
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#1559

Post by OldAle1 »

Interesting discussion. Looking at my own numbers, there isn't a huge range between 1939 and 2002 or so - over 100 films for almost every year, but no more than 190 for any year (1988 is the peak). I have 1000-1400 seen for every decade from the 1940s-2000s. Does this mean I like all eras equally? Not necessarily, but... maybe. I find a lot to love in every period, just different things. I grew up in the 80s but my "serious" filmgoing didn't really start until 1987 when I started working at an artsy video store. I had gone to school for English literature and so I took some of that taste with me to film, and my tastes were arthouse-oriented from the get-go - though I never forgot or entirely erased my childhood Lucas/Spielberg love either. I do have very fond memories of the 80s, personally, or rather the period from about 1983-95, as it was the period where I saw the most movies (in the cinema, new) and was probably overall the happiest. I didn't really start to get tired of the big city until the late 90s, and didn't really start to really despair over my life (and the world) until a little later. My film viewing over the past 15 years has been colored heavily by participating in yearly polls and other internet threads and discussions, which probably has contributed to my fairly stable numbers.

But I don't think the 80s are "better" in any sense than any other decade, and in fact they are a decade that seems a little weak compared to most, in most countries and perhaps most genres. There was something of a sequel to the French New Wave going on, with the arrival of filmmakers like Carax and Beineix among others in France; in the USA there was the rise of a new independent film movement; the Kiarostami-led Iranian New Wave (or second New Wave after the 60s) got started towards the end of the decade, but... I'm not sure it was a decade of top-notch level in any major film country. I guess it was a good decade for SF and fantasy; it was the decade where theatrically-released anime really got a boost in 1988, and with American animation recharging somewhat with the Disney renaissance at the same time, but it was also the worst decade ever for the western and as bad as any for the musical. What I actually cherish about the decade was that it feels in retrospect like the last period when studios were actually willing to take some chances on totally weird and unproven stuff; hard to imagine a Remo Williams or Buckaroo Banzai getting made today on the equivalent budgets. This willingness to take a few risks - particularly if it was on stuff that was at least vaguely fantastic - lasted into the early 90s I'd say, but it seems pretty dead now.

So I dunno. I look for different things from different eras. My new-movie watching plummeted over the past year because of the pandemic and a still-strong unwillingness to watch much new stuff at home, but I'm sure that's a passing phase. I'm still as up on cinema overall as I've ever been - after all my favorite film came out just 5 years ago - but I'm still as interested in exploring the past as I've ever been as well.
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#1560

Post by tobias »

xianjiro wrote: February 22nd, 2021, 8:12 pm You were in San Francisco in the 80s "but the lack of a social context that was buzzing with excitement for something (like a social, cultural, intellectual, or political movement) that was "happening" at that time."

I'm really not sure what to make of how you were able to insulate yourself from that epidemic. And it's not like AIDS was the only thing happening at the time either. There was a honest backlash against Reagan and I have to believe San Francisco didn't sit that one out since it can't be divorced from AIDS.

Sorry, guess "fighting for our lives" and "Silence = Death" just wasn't nearly as hip and cool as the Summer of Love and Haight-Ashbury but counter-cultural movements were quite alive and well in the 80s.
I'm by no means a great authority on 80's USA but coming of age under Reagan in a country that is overwhelmingly content with him (who I think is in debate for worst US president of all time) sounds fucking depressing. To me it doesn't read like cinewest says there was no counterculture but rather that there wasn't any big hope of major systemic change. I mean Reagan won so fucking hard, it's unbelievable. There was a massive shift to the right in that time, in much of the world even. I mean compare Reagan to Nixon, it's night and day (some of this is also in the congress elections of course but still). In the USA, UK and Germany it was all the same, neo-con's for over a decade and then the third way afterwards in the 90s, really devastating... (but at least Schröder said no thanks to invading Iraq). To be fair though, it's not like the social climate today is uplifting at all either.
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