iCM Forum's Favourite TV-series 2nd edition; Results

[weirdboy]

I totally forgot about Metalocalypse, but now I wish I had added that to my list even if nobody else voted for it.

[sebby]

Almost every TV show gets worse as it goes along. While a TV show may improve from season 1 to 2 or season 2 to 3, by the time season 5 or 8 or 11 come around, it's usually on a downward trajectory. So here's my question: How did a show's decline affect your voting?

I've realized that I completely ignored it for some shows. Twin Peaks is good enough that I'm not holding the second half of season 2 against it. And it helps that I haven't seen the most recent 21 seasons of The Simpsons. On the other hand, I probably would have included The Office and House in my list if I had stopped watching each one after three or four seasons. But by watching one or two seasons more, I not only saw some bad TV but I also came to recognize some of the significant flaws in earlier seasons.

I dropped Arrested Development down a bit because of the last 2 seasons not being up to the standard of the first three.

With the Simpsons there was a decade of greatness so I was willing to ignore the fall from best to worst thing on TV.

Long running shows that never wavered in quality got extra points from me (Curb your Enthusiasm for instance).

Parks and Rec is off my list completely bc when the show fell off it never recovered and the only good seasons (2 and 3), despite being very good, make up too small a number of the total episodes.

[Lonewolf2003]

To go on from the America vs UK, were there any Aussie shows on the list? Or on your personal list, or sol's or anybody else from Downunder? I didn't look very closely and there were a few dozen shows on the list that aren't even vaguely familiar names to me.

There was one on my list: Heartbreak High

[Lonewolf2003]

Almost every TV show gets worse as it goes along. While a TV show may improve from season 1 to 2 or season 2 to 3, by the time season 5 or 8 or 11 come around, it's usually on a downward trajectory. So here's my question: How did a show's decline affect your voting?

I've realized that I completely ignored it for some shows. Twin Peaks is good enough that I'm not holding the second half of season 2 against it. And it helps that I haven't seen the most recent 21 seasons of The Simpsons. On the other hand, I probably would have included The Office and House in my list if I had stopped watching each one after three or four seasons. But by watching one or two seasons more, I not only saw some bad TV but I also came to recognize some of the significant flaws in earlier seasons.

Simply said it's all about average to me. F.e. South Park: the last seasons are less than it was on its highmark, but they are still solid and the highmark seasons were so great, therefore the whole series got a high ranking. Other series, f.e. 30 Rock have a bigger decline in quality and/or the high weren’t as high so the ranking was lower than it would be based purely on the highpoints. Other series, f.e. Dexter, the decline was so steep I never considered adding the series to my list.

Also indeed with some series the shortcomings of later season also make the flaws of earlier seasons more apparent, this goes mostly for drama's like f.e. Dexter and HoC. For other shows the lesser seasons don't diminish the quality of its best seasons, f.e. Simpsons.

[OldAle1]

Almost every TV show gets worse as it goes along. While a TV show may improve from season 1 to 2 or season 2 to 3, by the time season 5 or 8 or 11 come around, it's usually on a downward trajectory. So here's my question: How did a show's decline affect your voting?

I've realized that I completely ignored it for some shows. Twin Peaks is good enough that I'm not holding the second half of season 2 against it. And it helps that I haven't seen the most recent 21 seasons of The Simpsons. On the other hand, I probably would have included The Office and House in my list if I had stopped watching each one after three or four seasons. But by watching one or two seasons more, I not only saw some bad TV but I also came to recognize some of the significant flaws in earlier seasons.

I don't really agree with your premise, so it's hard for me to say I see things this way. I think just as often as shows fall apart, they improve from poor beginnings - sometimes quite dramatically - although if they're on long enough they do often fall again. A great example is Star Trek: The Next Generation; I watched the first season, maybe 1 1/2, when originally on, because I was in college and that's what my friends and I were into and it was exciting, seeing a new fairly big-budget SF show on TV. It was fucking terrible. So we mostly abandoned it when it didn't seem to be getting any better - but it did, and while I haven't seen the whole show (and didn't put it on my list because it fell below the vague knowledge-threshold I had in my mind) what I've seen from later seasons, particularly the last 3, has been vastly better. "The Inner Light", which is in the running for my favorite single TV episode ever, is from Season 5, and the last episode of the series "All Good Things" and several others in this period are pretty terrific.

Buffy isn't really very good in it's first season - it wasn't until I got to REALLY love the show as a whole and probably on my third run-through that I started to appreciate it significantly, but it's clearly the weakest season by far to me. Season 2 is better but still not great; seasons 3-7 are all terrific IMO, and for me it's the last three that hit the peak. Quite a few fans disagree with this though if you look at IMDb ratings (not necessarily that off-base for older TV series IMO) my own prejudices are borne out, and quite a few of the most-lauded episodes - "The Body", "Once More With Feeling", "Chosen" - are from the last 3 years.

Frasier is a remarkably consistent show throughout, though over 11 years of course there are going to be some peaks and valleys. I'm not alone in really loving the run-up to Niles and Daphne finally getting together and I'd imagine seasons 6-7 are probably the most popular, but the show doesn't really fall off after that except maybe for season 10 (a little). The last season though is great and the last story arc with Frasier and new love Laura Linney is one of the best in the whole show.

I could go on but to me there are just as many examples of shows that stayed good for a long time as shows that fell off. And maybe it's that I'm a more limited TV viewer than most who participated in the poll, and haven't seen a lot of long-running shows, but certainly I've seen enough to be fairly sure that to buy your premise, I'd need to see a LOT more. I think the downfall of The Simpsons for so long, the long-running jumped-the-shark meme from Happy Days, and the longevity of quite a few shows that people got bored with over time, that probably did overstay their welcomes - E.R., Law and Order & CSI and all their many offshoots, etc, etc, probably helps feed this notion and perhaps it's generally true. But I've avoided a lot of that stuff so for me... not really.

[outdoorcats]

How on earth is it possible that Young Ones got only four votes?!
And then it's followed by several things I never heard of. And a news show? Didn't expect something like that to pop up.

Never heard of The Young Ones. So...it's good?

[outdoorcats]

#72 (▼-20 #52) Dexter (James Manos Jr., 2006 - 2021) 276.43 points
Seasons: 8, Episodes: 96
10144 checks,

7 voters

AB537 (unranked>40)
AssonFire (#8)
Carmel1379 (#32)
Gordon_Gekko (#40)
maxwelldeux (#12)
mightysparks (#50)
Smoover (#30)

Very surprised Dexter made the list! I remember forums and recap comment sections back when it was airing; if they were any indication, the final seasons in particular were some of the most universally hate-watched on television. I tried to stay positive and focus on what I liked, but by the train wreck of a final season - I think the worst attempt to stick the landing I've ever seen - I threw in the towel.

[outdoorcats]

#41 (NEW) The Leftovers (Damon Lindelof, Tom Perrotta, 2014 - 2017) 460.67 points
Seasons: 3, Episodes: 28
456 checks,

7 voters

Lonewolf2003 (#15)
monclivie (#13)
outdoorcats (#2)
prodigalgodson (#6)
rnilsson19 (#14)
sebby (#60)
Smoover (#9)

Suspect it will continue to rise in future polls as more people get curious and watch it. Strongly, strongly recommended to anyone who likes arthouse television.

[joachimt]

Drop off from last edition Top 100 that were eligible this time:

#257 (▼-201 #56) Bottom (, 1991) 88.79 points
Seasons: , Episodes:
270 checks,

3 voters

Caracortada (#87)
joachimt (#8)
mightysparks (#86)

More proof British comedy didn't do well this time.

[joachimt]

Drop off from last edition Top 100 that were eligible this time:

#360 (▼-269 #91) Jiskefet (, 1990) 69.06 points
Seasons: , Episodes:
26 checks,

2 voters

joachimt (#15)
Lonewolf2003 (unranked>47)

Did we have more Dutch voters last time? I doubt any non-Dutchy would vote for this.

[OldAle1]

Drop off from last edition Top 100 that were eligible this time:

#257 (▼-201 #56) Bottom (, 1991) 88.79 points
Seasons: , Episodes:
270 checks,

3 voters

Caracortada (#87)
joachimt (#8)
mightysparks (#86)

More proof British comedy didn't do well this time.

Never heard of that one. I might well have voted for The Young Ones and the various Blackadder series if I remembered them well enough; I think I watched most of that stuff when I lived with my 2nd girlfriend, 1993-6 - she was much more into comedy than I was and watched a lot of British and American series (including Friends, yecch). Since that period my TV watching was much more limited until about 2013 but of course all that stuff's faded now and just getting it back into my mind enough to the point where I think "hey maybe I should check that out again" requires a certain amount of brainspace devoted to it, which hasn't happened.

I think I've also been subconsciously less attracted to Brit comedy in the past 20 years because my parents watched a lot, but they watched the stuff that I considered pretty lame - Keeping Up Appearances - which had it's moments I guess; a worse show set I think in a hotel or a shop or something which had a blue-haired woman as a major character; and something else that is really foggy in the brain now, just on the tip of memory. Anyway, didn't like any of that stuff much and it's kind of replaced a lot of the good British comedy in memory until recently.

And what about Ab Fab?

[joachimt]

How on earth is it possible that Young Ones got only four votes?!
And then it's followed by several things I never heard of. And a news show? Didn't expect something like that to pop up.

Never heard of The Young Ones. So...it's good?

Young Ones is one of the most famous classic comedy shows from the UK not containing Rowan Atkinson or one of the Monty Python guys. Surprised you don't know it. I think it's hilarious.

[Torgo]

IMDb sometimes is weird. Dexter ended in 2013. Misleading to preview it as "2006-2021".

I remember the days when Dexter ended. Fans weren't super-satisfied by the last season, but extremely disappointed by the last episode itself. That stood as the biggest negative reaction to a series final on the internet for what I experienced.
IMDb drop-off for the last episode by more than 3.0 points compared to the season average

With House of Cards, it's a bit different. I guess many fans just didn't accept the last season at all. Rating all of them 4.0ish almost looks like it was plotted; probably victim of an old-school internet shitstorm.

And then there's Game of Thrones, arguably the series to be most slammed and ridiculed for its final season, online as well as offline. What's impressing here is the sheer amount of votes for the single episodes - not many theatrical productions make it to 200,000 votes.
Who would have a better story?

[mightysparks]

The Young Ones is the best show ever made so yes it’s good. Was my dads favourite show as a teen too. I’m surprised by how much of it I still remember even though I haven’t really watched it in years. So many scenes I can recite word for word. I also quite regularly quote ‘it better be good this Norman Tebbit’ and I said it the other day and my boyfriend was just like ‘I wonder if you’ll say that forever’

Also went to Bristol to visit some of the shooting locations. Saw the house, ate at the pub from Boring, etc. Love it

[Tim2460]

IMDb sometimes is weird. Dexter ended in 2013. Misleading to preview it as "2006-2021".

Heard an new Dexter Season is on the way ...

[Lonewolf2003]

Drop off from last edition Top 100 that were eligible this time:

#360 (▼-269 #91) Jiskefet (, 1990) 69.06 points
Seasons: , Episodes:
26 checks,

2 voters

joachimt (#15)
Lonewolf2003 (unranked>47)

Did we have more Dutch voters last time? I doubt any non-Dutchy would vote for this.

Yes. In bold the ones that didn't vote this time.

5 voters:
ErikSchierboom (#19)
Joachimt (unranked)
jvv (#38)
Lammetje (#11)
Lonewolf2003 (#69)

[GruesomeTwosome]

IMDb sometimes is weird. Dexter ended in 2013. Misleading to preview it as "2006-2021".

Heard an new Dexter Season is on the way ...

Indeed there is. Not sure if Torgo was unaware of that, or meant that IMDB listing the show as "2006-2021" is misleading because that implies that the show continuously kept running from 2014 to 2020, which it didn't of course.

[Lonewolf2003]

IMDb sometimes is weird. Dexter ended in 2013. Misleading to preview it as "2006-2021".

Heard an new Dexter Season is on the way ...

There is indeed a new limited series coming next year.: https://tvline.com/2020/10/14/dexter-re ... el-c-hall/
I did mean to state that Dexter ended in 2013, since I didn't want to state future seasons and episodes.

[Lonewolf2003]

Drop off from last edition Top 100 that were eligible this time:

#257 (▼-201 #56) Bottom (, 1991) 88.79 points
Seasons: , Episodes:
270 checks,

3 voters

Caracortada (#87)
joachimt (#8)
mightysparks (#86)

More proof British comedy didn't do well this time.

Never heard of that one. I might well have voted for The Young Ones and the various Blackadder series if I remembered them well enough; I think I watched most of that stuff when I lived with my 2nd girlfriend, 1993-6 - she was much more into comedy than I was and watched a lot of British and American series (including Friends, yecch). Since that period my TV watching was much more limited until about 2013 but of course all that stuff's faded now and just getting it back into my mind enough to the point where I think "hey maybe I should check that out again" requires a certain amount of brainspace devoted to it, which hasn't happened.

I think I've also been subconsciously less attracted to Brit comedy in the past 20 years because my parents watched a lot, but they watched the stuff that I considered pretty lame - Keeping Up Appearances - which had it's moments I guess; a worse show set I think in a hotel or a shop or something which had a blue-haired woman as a major character; and something else that is really foggy in the brain now, just on the tip of memory. Anyway, didn't like any of that stuff much and it's kind of replaced a lot of the good British comedy in memory until recently.

And what about Ab Fab?

You mean "Are You Being Served?"?

[peeptoad]

I hardly ever watch TV series so didn't participate here, but I'm not surprised on the #1. That would have been my #1 as well.... we used to have weekly Twin Peaks viewing parties back when I was in University. Also, yay on Sherlock since I just finished that last week and loved it. Matter of fact most of what I would have had on a tv list is here: those two, X Files, GoT, and Seinfeld primarily.

And I totally forgot about Whose Line is it Anyway... my roommate and I used to watch that back in the late 90s. Great stuff.

[outdoorcats]

Dexter's final season was particularly unflattering, when you consider it was airing at the same time as the final season of Breaking Bad (and I guess there was plenty of audience overlap between the two shows, so that people were constantly comparing them).

I stopped watching House of Cards (US) after the third season; my understanding from those who kept watching is that the show had hit rock bottom long before Kevin Spacey was fired. The main problem is that it's based on a trilogy of miniseries' with a concentrated rise to power in the first two and fall in the third...and the show followed the same pace for two seasons. Then presumably Netflix said, well, this is our flagship show, so you need to keep it going indefinitely...so it just started spinning its wheels with subplots without major permanent consequences, suddenly becoming a much different show. And there was a change in showrunners too, IIRC.

For sure, the ratings might be unusually low because of Kevin Spacey fans ( ) but at the same time it doesn't seem like the show even had a fanbase to fight back.

The online reaction to Game of Thrones' finale made the reaction to the finales of LOST or The Sopranos look tame in comparison. I thought it was a perfectly fine final season.

Anyone think Sherlock dropped because of Season 4?

[OldAle1]

More proof British comedy didn't do well this time.

Never heard of that one. I might well have voted for The Young Ones and the various Blackadder series if I remembered them well enough; I think I watched most of that stuff when I lived with my 2nd girlfriend, 1993-6 - she was much more into comedy than I was and watched a lot of British and American series (including Friends, yecch). Since that period my TV watching was much more limited until about 2013 but of course all that stuff's faded now and just getting it back into my mind enough to the point where I think "hey maybe I should check that out again" requires a certain amount of brainspace devoted to it, which hasn't happened.

I think I've also been subconsciously less attracted to Brit comedy in the past 20 years because my parents watched a lot, but they watched the stuff that I considered pretty lame - Keeping Up Appearances - which had it's moments I guess; a worse show set I think in a hotel or a shop or something which had a blue-haired woman as a major character; and something else that is really foggy in the brain now, just on the tip of memory. Anyway, didn't like any of that stuff much and it's kind of replaced a lot of the good British comedy in memory until recently.

And what about Ab Fab?

You mean "Are You Being Served?"?

Yes that's it, thank you. Don't know why I couldn't remember it. Really didn't like that at all, though to be fair I only saw a handful of episodes when visiting my parents. Saw more of Keeping Up Appearances, and liked it more, but still not nearly enough to think of putting on my list. Wish I could remember the third series they watched dammit. Nothing's coming up at all and I don't feel like doing a long search of every British comedy show from the 60s through the 90s.

[peeptoad]

Anyone think Sherlock dropped because of Season 4?

It was my least fav season, but I still hope they film s5.

[outdoorcats]

Me too. They can't let that be the finale, the weird Saw knockoff that felt like an episode of a much dumber show.

peep have you seen Bryan Fuller's Hannibal?

(If not, drop everything and give the first episode a try)

[peeptoad]

Nope, haven't seen Hannibal.... but I like Mikkelsen well enough I suppose. I'll give it a shot sometime, thanks.

[brokenface]

I've checked 73/100

But I'm pretty lax with checking tv series, if I have seen enough to judge it I check it. F.e. I don't know if I've seen every last episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but I did follow it, but in those days pre-streaming and playback options life sometimes got in the way of seeing an episode of a series. And I'm certain I didn't see every last episode of the Daily Show, but I've seen enough to like it.

I'm similar, I've checked 50 on the list, at a scroll through I'd say 1/3rd of them I haven't seen every episode. On the flipside, of the 50 unchecked, I'd estimate about 10 I've seen some episodes, but not enough to feel I should check.

Drama series I do try to watch every episode once I'm invested and generally wait til complete to check (exceptions would be a few ongoing current shows where I checked at some point when up-to-date and then another season has subsequently been released that I haven't got to yet*, like say Fargo).

Comedy/animation is a bit more varied, I'm not generally as completist here, particularly where they are the US series with 100+ episodes and I watched them back in the days of watching on actual TV, e.g. Frasier, no idea how many of the 264 episodes I've seen. It's a lot easier with streaming services now to watch complete series in order.


*this is where I mention one of my hobby-horses that IMDB/ICM really really need Seasons to be separate checkable/rateable entities, rather than just Episodes/Series.

[Torgo]

*this is where I mention one of my hobby-horses that IMDB/ICM really really need Seasons to be separate checkable/rateable entities, rather than just Episodes/Series.

You are so right about this.
It's ridiculous that you can either rate only the whole series or a single episode. For the 3 seasons of True Detective, my ratings would probably look like 9/10, 6/10 and 7,5/10. How do I squeeze that into a single rating? It's the case for many series. Meh.

IMDb sometimes is weird. Dexter ended in 2013. Misleading to preview it as "2006-2021".

Heard an new Dexter Season is on the way ...

There is indeed a new limited series coming next year.: https://tvline.com/2020/10/14/dexter-re ... el-c-hall/
I did mean to state that Dexter ended in 2013, since I didn't want to state future seasons and episodes.

Alright, I absolutely didn't want to bitch to you about this - you did a fantastic job!
By IMDb logic, it could (and should) also say Twin Peaks (1990-2017). Which is nonsensical.
I'm afraid sometimes a reboot is a separate reboot, sometimes it isn't. Like how did the X Files run from 1993–2018.

[blocho]

Matter of fact most of what I would have had on a tv list is here: those two, X Files, GoT, and Seinfeld primarily.

Everything I voted for finished in the top 100. A weird feeling. I must be very basic (or, more likely, I watch very little TV).

[weirdboy]

I would be interested to see if anyone at al besides myself voted for some of the ones on my list.

[Jimi Antiloop]

I think Family Guy and Rick and Morty are the only shows that I hate on this list, based on one episode each and various glimpses.

you don't like rick and morty

[Jimi Antiloop]

Oh hey, final confirmation that Twin Peak is a TV series after all.

Indeed, let's ban it completely from all movie-polls from now on.

[mightysparks]

I think Family Guy and Rick and Morty are the only shows that I hate on this list, based on one episode each and various glimpses.

you don't like rick and morty

Why is that funny? it’s just science fiction Family Guy and I hate that teenage boy meme crap.

[Quartoxuma]

I think Family Guy and Rick and Morty are the only shows that I hate on this list, based on one episode each and various glimpses.

you don't like rick and morty

Why is that funny? it’s just science fiction Family Guy and I hate that teenage boy meme crap.

I think 'Rick and Morty' is rather comparable to 'Futurama' in that it tries to span a cohesive storyline over one or multiple episode to explore philosophical issues. South Park went into that direction as well over time. From these shows I know 'Family Guy' the least, but my impression was that it was mostly a thin storyline and then some throw-away jokes cut in-between. Not my cup of tea, but I don't get how 'Rick and Morty' would be even remotely comparable. Sure, they both have boyish humors and are animated but that's about it.

[mightysparks]

you don't like rick and morty

Why is that funny? it’s just science fiction Family Guy and I hate that teenage boy meme crap.

I think 'Rick and Morty' is rather comparable to 'Futurama' in that it tries to span a cohesive storyline over one or multiple episode to explore philosophical issues. South Park went into that direction as well over time. From these shows I know 'Family Guy' the least, but my impression was that it was mostly a thin storyline and then some throw-away jokes cut in-between. Not my cup of tea, but I don't get how 'Rick and Morty' would be even remotely comparable. Sure, they both have boyish humors and are animated but that's about it.

I only watched one episode so I don't know about any storyline but it seemed like it had the same throwaway joke structure of Family Guy (but I guess maybe with a coherent storyline throughout the series). Not my type of humour regardless.

[Quartoxuma]

Why is that funny? it’s just science fiction Family Guy and I hate that teenage boy meme crap.

I think 'Rick and Morty' is rather comparable to 'Futurama' in that it tries to span a cohesive storyline over one or multiple episode to explore philosophical issues. South Park went into that direction as well over time. From these shows I know 'Family Guy' the least, but my impression was that it was mostly a thin storyline and then some throw-away jokes cut in-between. Not my cup of tea, but I don't get how 'Rick and Morty' would be even remotely comparable. Sure, they both have boyish humors and are animated but that's about it.

I only watched one episode so I don't know about any storyline but it seemed like it had the same throwaway joke structure of Family Guy (but I guess maybe with a coherent storyline throughout the series). Not my type of humour regardless.

Sure, I get it. It has some weird humor sometimes and in the end, I did not find it bearable to watch it when the same storylines have been told in a more mature way somewhere else.

[Jimi Antiloop]

Why is that funny? it’s just science fiction Family Guy and I hate that teenage boy meme crap.

I think 'Rick and Morty' is rather comparable to 'Futurama' in that it tries to span a cohesive storyline over one or multiple episode to explore philosophical issues. South Park went into that direction as well over time. From these shows I know 'Family Guy' the least, but my impression was that it was mostly a thin storyline and then some throw-away jokes cut in-between. Not my cup of tea, but I don't get how 'Rick and Morty' would be even remotely comparable. Sure, they both have boyish humors and are animated but that's about it.

I only watched one episode so I don't know about any storyline but it seemed like it had the same throwaway joke structure of Family Guy (but I guess maybe with a coherent storyline throughout the series). Not my type of humour regardless.

It's satire. And it works best if you are sci-fi nerd at least a bit, or a sociology nerd at best, or an existencialist.
"Crap" it isn't at all, when you can read in between the very surface. But man, I know, people need their pigeonholing.

[prodigalgodson]

I'll weigh in that imo Rick and Morty is pretty brilliant, and I wouldn't be caught dead watching Family Guy.

[beasterne]

I'm glad I gave Rick and Morty a shot as well. Rick is a very unlikeable protagonist, especially early in the series (the burping is so obnoxious) but he does get slightly better as the show goes along. If anyone is looking to give it another shot, I would recommend trying out the episode "One Crew over the Crewcoo's Morty", season 4 episode 3. It's a fun skewering of the heist-movie format, and probably something that film lovers like us will enjoy since we've seen lots of these types of films.

[Onderhond]

Rick and Morty is slightly amusing, but the randomness is often quite boring and whatever can be read between the lines isn't that interesting either. It's really just down to sense of humor imo, and this wasn't really it for me.

[mightysparks]

I’m not pigeonholing anything, just basing my opinion off what I’ve seen of it