500 <400 2020 RESULTS! Sponsored by Torgo

[cinewest]

I hope that sortile9io once again does his "Top Affinities" post showing which users have the most films (as a percentage) in common with each other, as seen in last year's post: viewtopic.php?p=605340#p605340. Always enjoy seeing that.

Sure, but first I think we'll have to see the runners-up.

That’s interesting. Pretty easy to recognize the different “mafias” on board, and I didn’t realize Xianjiro was everyone’s friend, or my best friend, though I am pretty far down on his list of friends. No wonder I get so cranky around here.

[albajos]

1. Megane
Seen at a film festival
2. Jakten
Curriculum at university, but I saw it in cinema before that
3. O le tulafale
Dug it up in a Oceania challenge
4. Leve blant løver
Seen at a film festival
5. Resan till Melonia
TV
6. Terror by Night
Saw it on DVD because of Sherlock Holmes
7. O Primeiro Dia
Saw it in cinema
8. Ma-ma
It's on TV every year here
9. Herr Bohm och sillen
Animated short often shown on TV in the 80s and early 90s
10. Senaste Nytt
Short film festival, I guess. I have only seen it once. It's probably the one in my list I question the most as it has been so long ago :p

so only 1/10 is because of this forum, and that wasn't even recommended by anyone. On the positive side I saw it because of a bonus challenge, as it is Samoan. Otherwise I probably never would have found it.

For the question for what has been in the list the longest, I think it's the movie Mormor og de åtte ungene i skogen

but also the shorts Veslefrikk med fela, Den standhaftige tinnsoldat, Karius og Baktus, Gutten som kappåt med trollet, Min bedstefar er en stok
or the mini-series Brødrene Dal og professor Drøvels hemmelighet or Serum Serum could be first as they have all been on TV several times.

[AdamH]

Ok, some more stats. Number of films still eligible from each edition so far:

Jan. 2013-120
Sep. 2013-148
2014-206
2015-253
2016-308
2017-356
2018-412
2019-448
2020-498

[Melvelet]

Seeing the relatively small amount of films in people's top 10s that were directly watched because of this list really makes me wonder how people can go through the countdown and not get the urge to watch every single film on the list.
It's quite diverse, I basically find everything that I watch from it at least interesting, with many films being good or even great. I'm almost as keen on finishing this list as I am with TSPDT. After I'm done with latter, 500<400 and all it's previous version will become my main list to work on.
Huge thanks to everyone involved.

Went down from 229 to 222. I'll try to get to over 300 before the next version.

[mightysparks]

Well, I've watched a few films because they are on this list but most of them I didn't like enough to go on my list... Most are in the bad to meh range, as are all films in general for me. Also, I assume most people's top 10s would be more personal/long-term so they might have plenty of other films from the forum/this list further down on their list.

[Mothravka]

I don't like most films (of what I've seen) either. But I like watching films and try to see each viewing experience as something positive and something I can learn from, even if the film itself is bad. If a film is good, it's a bonus.

[clemmetarey]

1. Trans-Europ-Express (1966): saw it because it's directed by Robbe-Grillet
2. Ship of Theseus (2012): World Cup
3. Shura (1971): forum rec (Art)
4. Histórias que Só Existem Quando Lembradas (2011): Saw it during the Latin America challenge in February 18
5. Die Parallelstrasse (1962): not sure, but most likely because of the talk on the forum
6. Comment je me suis disputé... (ma vie sexuelle) (1996): working on the French list
7. L'eau froide (1994): I saw this one in theaters, during a film festival
8. November (2017): World Cup
9. La muerte de un burócrata (1966): I started working on Alea's filmography 4 years ago, to this day this and Memories of Underdevelopment are still the only one I've seen.
10. Rengoku eroica (1970): it was on 500<400

Also made me realise that my top 12 is on 500<400. Feels good to be part of a forum with such great tastes

[Onderhond]

Seeing the relatively small amount of films in people's top 10s that were directly watched because of this list really makes me wonder how people can go through the countdown and not get the urge to watch every single film on the list.

This train of thought I don't get. You'd expect people to really dig through this list because they have a low amount of films from the list in their top 10?
Sounds to me like a good reason not to go through the list, as it doesn't seem to yield that many favorites for people?

Whether the list is diverse is mainly a matter of perspective. For someone like me, diversity seems rather low to be honest.

[AdamH]

Top 10s don't really tell us much. I have plenty of films in my list that I watched because of the forum/500<400 but that doesn't necessarily mean many of them are in my top 10.

[weirdboy]

1. Trans-Europ-Express (1966): saw it because it's directed by Robbe-Grillet
2. Ship of Theseus (2012): World Cup
3. Shura (1971): forum rec (Art)
4. Histórias que Só Existem Quando Lembradas (2011): Saw it during the Latin America challenge in February 18
5. Die Parallelstrasse (1962): not sure, but most likely because of the talk on the forum
6. Comment je me suis disputé... (ma vie sexuelle) (1996): working on the French list
7. L'eau froide (1994): I saw this one in theaters, during a film festival
8. November (2017): World Cup
9. La muerte de un burócrata (1966): I started working on Alea's filmography 4 years ago, to this day this and Memories of Underdevelopment are still the only one I've seen.
10. Rengoku eroica (1970): it was on 500<400

Also made me realise that my top 12 is on 500<400. Feels good to be part of a forum with such great tastes

Die Parallelstrasse was also a world cup entry.

[Fergenaprido]

Die Parallelstrasse was also a world cup entry.

No it wasn't, weirdboy. It was FOTW though.

[Melvelet]

Seeing the relatively small amount of films in people's top 10s that were directly watched because of this list really makes me wonder how people can go through the countdown and not get the urge to watch every single film on the list.

This train of thought I don't get. You'd expect people to really dig through this list because they have a low amount of films from the list in their top 10?
Sounds to me like a good reason not to go through the list, as it doesn't seem to yield that many favorites for people?

Whether the list is diverse is mainly a matter of perspective. For someone like me, diversity seems rather low to be honest.

I rather mean: people list their top 10s, they include plenty of movies that are on 500<400 but barely anyone seems to have seen the movies BECAUSE they were on the list. Which gives the (maybe not entirely accurate) impression that most forumers don't take the list as a source for recommendations (that they actually end up watching). I do suspect something similar to what mighty said - that the top is not that representative with regards to the list influence of viewing choices and that there might be a higher percentage of 'watched because of 500<400' outside of the top 10s.

And I actually imagined you'd say something like that when I typed my statement about the diversity Of course it still has a strong focus on the kind of movies that the members of this board are - as a whole - most interested in (arthouse, 'classic'/non-contemporary cinema, more generally speaking dramas) while other parts of cinema as a medium are barely represented. But if we look at the represented countries and the distribution of release years there's a lot of variety. A Russian silent movie, a film noir and a 2018 Chinese arthouse movie would give me 3 viewing experiences that feel very different for me, even if they typically get watched by a similar audience. But there's also films on the list that I'd say are outside of that sphere (Assassination Nation, Who Killed Captain Alex? & LA Plays Itself come to mind) and I'm looking forward to crush my own comfort zone a bit with that. I do agree that there could be a bit more of that and also more genre movies for example. Or generally more people like you with a quite different outlook on cinema. But I feel there could be Hidden Gems lists in other communities that are much more anglocentric, mostly focussed on contemporary cinema, etc. and therefore less diverse.

[clemmetarey]

Die Parallelstrasse was also a world cup entry.

No it wasn't, weirdboy. It was FOTW though.

I saw it in June 2016, and it was FOTW on February 2016, and already on 500<400. The fact it is on 500<400 is probably the reason I saw it then.

[Onderhond]

I rather mean: people list their top 10s, they include plenty of movies that are on 500<400 but barely anyone seems to have seen the movies BECAUSE they were on the list. Which gives the (maybe not entirely accurate) impression that most forumers don't take the list as a source for recommendations (that they actually end up watching). I do suspect something similar to what mighty said - that the top is not that representative with regards to the list influence of viewing choices and that there might be a higher percentage of 'watched because of 500<400' outside of the top 10s.

Well, looking at the setup and result it's a list that appeals to a limited amount of users. For gamification it isn't that great (because tough to complete and relatively few films appearing in multiple toplists), for challenge participation and random recommends many of the films are quite hard to find and require active looking around. And if you want to take it as a diverse list, it's still a bit of a gamble to take on the odd film.

But there's also films on the list that I'd say are outside of that sphere (Assassination Nation, Who Killed Captain Alex? & LA Plays Itself come to mind)

True enough, but then it's usually just one kind of "representative" for a niche or genre. It's not like you can go "oh, this film's on here, I loved that, let's look for something similar", because you probably won't find it But in that sense the list definitely improved compared to last year, at least looking at my own favorites.

[ckfilm88]

This may be a stupid question, but how does someone get into the Top 150 people of icheckmovies without enjoying movies? Most people I know who don't like films or watching them don't watch any or only watch 1-4 a month. People I know who do like movies have seen less (myself included) and are well below that threshold.

[joachimt]

This may be a stupid question, but how does someone get into the Top 150 people of icheckmovies without enjoying movies? Most people I know who don't like films or watching them don't watch any or only watch 1-4 a month. People I know who do like movies have seen less (myself included) and are well below that threshold.

Certainly not a stupid question and most of us have been wondering about this for nine years.
But I doubt mightysparks wants to explain it again.

[Torgo]

This may be a stupid question, but how does someone get into the Top 150 people of icheckmovies without enjoying movies? Most people I know who don't like films or watching them don't watch any or only watch 1-4 a month. People I know who do like movies have seen less (myself included) and are well below that threshold.

Don't worry, it's not a stupid question. I fail to understand this since I first came into contact with cinephiles who were largely resistant to any forms of enjoyment, trapped in their cage of superiority.
It's not an ICM-exclusive phenomenon but even more baffling when one consumes these huge masses of movies and goes through hundreds of ones which aren't even of their interest, weren't it for lists.

[Cippenham]

It’s like an obsession, all consuming and the desire to complete lists, so you have to watch films early morning and evening and all shorts as long as they are official. I no longer suffer from this obsession but am still in the top 100.

[Teproc]

I think it's probably more a case of people having different definitions of enjoyment than anything else.

[joachimt]

It’s like an obsession, all consuming and the desire to complete lists, so you have to watch films early morning and evening and all shorts as long as they are official. I no longer suffer from this obsession but am still in the top 100.

This doesn't apply to mightysparks. She watched tons of movies long before iCM existed. After discovering iCM she surely had a period of focusing on official checks, but quickly she went her own way again and watched loads of unofficial stuff. There are certainly checkwhores on iCM, but mightysparks isn't one of them.

[AdamH]

Mightysparks also doesn't really watch that many films now (certainly compared to many iCMers). People on iCM would be watching lots of films with or without iCM and with or without lists. Sure, it might drive the watching up but my experience of reading on here is that most of the top people in the rankings tend to burn out eventually.

Depends on how busy a person's life is/family commitments etc. as well probably.

[Cippenham]

I was already a long way working on TSPDT before ICM as I wanted to see the greatest films, for me it was about the theme or story, the performance and the quality m broadening horizons of time, appreciating films of all times and cultures and languages. It was hard to track down some of the most obscure at that time. I still have not seen The Art of Vision, no longer a feature of that list. Then with ICM to appreciate other lists, popular or otherwise. I followed a website by Kevin Lee, called Shooting down pictures documenting his efforts to complete TSPDT. That was started in 2007. He finished in 2010 but I took a little longer.
He talked about it here.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-SEB-30054

[ckfilm88]

Certainly not a stupid question and most of us have been wondering about this for nine years.
But I doubt mightysparks wants to explain it again.

Don't worry, it's not a stupid question. I fail to understand this since I first came into contact with cinephiles who were largely resistant to any forms of enjoyment, trapped in their cage of superiority.
It's not an ICM-exclusive phenomenon but even more baffling when one consumes these huge masses of movies and goes through hundreds of ones which aren't even of their interest, weren't it for lists.

It’s like an obsession, all consuming and the desire to complete lists, so you have to watch films early morning and evening and all shorts as long as they are official. I no longer suffer from this obsession but am still in the top 100.

I think it's probably more a case of people having different definitions of enjoyment than anything else.

I greatly appreciate all of the responses! I didn't mean to bring up old news, so feel free to ignore the question going forward. I was just shocked because I had never encountered anyone with a hobby for something they didn't actually enjoy, watching movies or otherwise. I can understand the addiction of completing lists and checking. I remember when I first created my account I wanted to check as much as possible so I kept working through the Mark Cousins list and watching the shorts on there. I don't think I am as intense as I was then, but I still try to work my way through lists and I do get enjoyment from it.

With that information I guess it makes sense why some people may not devour the 500 <400 list every year if they suffer from burnout or don't get enjoyment from watching films since the majority of what is on here requires more patience, love for the craft of filmmaking, and/or appreciation of different styles. For example, I'm certainly not going go out of my way to watch a 10-hour tennis tournament considering I don't have passion for tennis. If I didn't like watching movies I certainly wouldn't watch Mekas, or Lav Diaz, or a 10-hour documentary series because it would feel like a waste of time. Of course these are some of the more extreme cases of this list, but I think it still makes sense.

I think Torgo may have touched on why not too many people fly through this list (as long as the films are available enough). In my short time here I've noticed some people on here have very particular tastes and if I personally didn't like certain movies or styles I probably wouldn't touch this list. Although the list may not be as diverse as it could be, it does have a wide range of styles, countries, and directors. Plenty of people have an aversion to Miike and Mekas, which I can understand, but that doesn't mean people can't learn to appreciate why others like them and their films. Sam Levinson didn't get to make a HBO show (Euphoria) because he's a bad filmmaker. I get the sense people want to share hidden or under appreciated films they've seen, but aren't as inclined to see films others put on their lists.

Like I said before, I am new here so I may be wrong about this. It's just what I think I've observed so far.

[mightysparks]

There's a difference between loving film and loving every individual film that you see. Almost every film is 'of interest' to me, but only a handful strongly connect with me. I don't choose which ones these are or how many of them do. Film is about more than just my personal enjoyment and connection, although obviously the ones that tick those boxes are the ones that make all of it worthwhile.

I don't like most films (of what I've seen) either. But I like watching films and try to see each viewing experience as something positive and something I can learn from, even if the film itself is bad. If a film is good, it's a bonus.

I think it's probably more a case of people having different definitions of enjoyment than anything else.

+1

[Ebbywebby]

I do use the <400 list to get tips....every year, I paste my unseen films from the top 500 to a text file and try to narrow them down to a sub-list of films that sound interesting. And then I'll watch some of them. I never quite finished narrowing down the rough list during the past year, but I generally pluck out about 70 films worth keeping in mind.

Of the current top 500, I saw 13 of them during 2020. Several of those choices like "Who Killed Captain Alex" (just watched recently), "The Tall Target," "The Silent Partner," "Tiger Bay" and "By the Bluest of Seas" were strongly influenced by their <400 rank. I must have watched some "dropoffs" during the past year too, but those are harder to look up. I know I saw "Our Man in Havana" in recent months, though that was more because I just like old Alec Guinness movies. I watched "Style Wars" after last year's poll was revealed, only because it was on the list (and was short-ish). I watched "Seduced and Abandoned" during the past year, but that was half just because it was on TCM. I watched "Park Row," mostly because it was on the <400 list (and, yeah, TCM showed it). I probably missed a couple of other examples.

I think I've been enjoying film a little less during the past year or two, just because I'm truly nearing the bottom of unseen old films that personally excite me. I'm quite tight about what I add to my watchlist, and my list is down to just 65 features. And that's despite me adding about 15 fresh titles just 2.5 months ago. I was much more consumed with music than film up until the mid 2000's, but lately my music passion has been refueled. Partly because I realized I'm long overdue to sift through my collection and pull out stuff that I don't need anymore. I'm very, very bitter about the unjust media campaign to bury the CD, because it's costing me lots of money in potential sales.

[Torgo]

It's funny; some of us would be glad if their watchlist ever shrank down to just 65 films instead of growing longer each and every month ..
For any film I "get out of the way", 2 fill its spot. It's a Sisyphean task, except an entertaining one.

[TalkingElvish]

It's funny; some of us would be glad if their watchlist ever shrank down to just 65 films instead of growing longer each and every month ..
For any film I "get out of the way", 2 fill its spot. It's a Sisyphean task, except an entertaining one.

Same. I can't really point to any single users whose tastes I find especially useful, but I really love the list-making that happens here. I've already watched all the shorts I hadn't already seen and they're all absolute revelations. Very keen to see the 501-1000 list.

[cinewest]

Seeing the relatively small amount of films in people's top 10s that were directly watched because of this list really makes me wonder how people can go through the countdown and not get the urge to watch every single film on the list.
It's quite diverse, I basically find everything that I watch from it at least interesting, with many films being good or even great. I'm almost as keen on finishing this list as I am with TSPDT. After I'm done with latter, 500<400 and all it's previous version will become my main list to work on.
Huge thanks to everyone involved.

Went down from 229 to 222. I'll try to get to over 300 before the next version.

While I agree that the list is quite diverse, there is quite a bit that doesn’t really appeal to me for a variety of reasons:
Unlike many here I am not hooked on completing official lists, nor am I as interested in watching as many movies as most here do. Even in my heyday of movie watching (back in my 20’s) I probably averaged no more than 8 movies per month, if only because I had a myriad of other interests, including my studies, and making my own short films, etc.

Over 40+ years of cinephilia, I have watched a huge variety of films, and while I continue to enjoy the diversity Of films available, the kinds of films I am attracted to has both broadened and narrowed at the same time.

These days I watch far less older stuff (in fact the older a movie is the less likely I am to be attracted to it, with certain exceptions, of course), and far fewer English language movies, though at times a given mood takes me back to places I have already mined substantially.

I am also not in a situation where it is convenient for me to search high and low for films that are difficult to find.
That said, I have added at least 250 films from this list over the past few years, and definitely watched quite a few films off this list since I first stumbled upon it.

The fact that I was unfamiliar with so many of the titles when I first came to the list added to its appeal, as I love Learning about and discovering quality things that have escaped most people’s attention, as well as continuing to develop my knowledge and taste around those things.

[ckfilm88]

There's a difference between loving film and loving every individual film that you see. Almost every film is 'of interest' to me, but only a handful strongly connect with me. I don't choose which ones these are or how many of them do. Film is about more than just my personal enjoyment and connection, although obviously the ones that tick those boxes are the ones that make all of it worthwhile.

Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with not connecting with a lot of films. I certainly don't love every film I watch though. I wouldn't even say I love every film in my Top 10. I don't think every film I watch that I don't love is bad or just okay. There's definitely plenty of area between those assertions.

[Dolwphin]

Here I thought mightysparks was a curiosity, but then a user named ckfilm88 emerges who coldly remarks that he doesn't love some of her/his favorite films.

[ckfilm88]

Here I thought mightysparks was a curiosity, but then a user named ckfilm88 emerges who coldly remarks that he doesn't love some of her/his favorite films.

It seems you took my response out of context. I was only trying to defend myself because it seemed to be suggested that I unabashedly love almost anything I watch without criticism. I was referring to my Top 10 from my submission list for this year, which I thought others were previously talking about, but maybe I misinterpreted. I definitely should have made that clearer. I think all of the films in my Top 10 for my 2020 500 <400 list are great, but I would save "love" for my absolute favorite films of all time, which some of them are not.

[viktor-vaudevillain]

Only 1 of my top 10 films made the list... well well well. Which is Reality's Invisible, and I would have thought that Valérie Massadian's Milla (2017) would be at least a minor favorite among some members on this forum, and would make the list.

I've seen some 92 films from the list, but only 40 of those were on my list.

[matthewscott8]

1. Trans-Europ-Express (1966): saw it because it's directed by Robbe-Grillet
2. Ship of Theseus (2012): World Cup
3. Shura (1971): forum rec (Art)
4. Histórias que Só Existem Quando Lembradas (2011): Saw it during the Latin America challenge in February 18
5. Die Parallelstrasse (1962): not sure, but most likely because of the talk on the forum
6. Comment je me suis disputé... (ma vie sexuelle) (1996): working on the French list
7. L'eau froide (1994): I saw this one in theaters, during a film festival
8. November (2017): World Cup
9. La muerte de un burócrata (1966): I started working on Alea's filmography 4 years ago, to this day this and Memories of Underdevelopment are still the only one I've seen.
10. Rengoku eroica (1970): it was on 500<400

Also made me realise that my top 12 is on 500<400. Feels good to be part of a forum with such great tastes

Die Parallelstrasse was also a world cup entry.

I've been shilling for Die Parallelstrasse for over a decade. Getting folks on the IMDb boards (including many people now on this board) to watch it is one of my few claims to fame as an "influencer".

[Melvelet]

World Cup movies in the current 500<400 edition:

Season 1: 22
Season 2: 23
Season 3: 24
Season 4: 14 (season not finished)

[sol]

I hope that sortile9io once again does his "Top Affinities" post showing which users have the most films (as a percentage) in common with each other, as seen in last year's post: viewtopic.php?p=605340#p605340. Always enjoy seeing that.

Sure, but first I think we'll have to see the runners-up.

Uh, my link has changed since I submitted it for the poll.

I don't know if you use the lists as downloaded by PA, but in case you don't, here's a current link and I'll avoid changing the link name until this is over if that's going to cause problems.

[Armoreska]

btw congrats to the proud owner of the 6 sixes post
viewtopic.php?p=666666#p666666

[Torgo]

btw congrats to the proud owner of the 6 sixes post
viewtopic.php?p=666666#p666666

[Torgo]

Here I thought mightysparks was a curiosity, but then a user named ckfilm88 emerges who coldly remarks that he doesn't love some of her/his favorite films.

It seems you took my response out of context. I was only trying to defend myself because it seemed to be suggested that I unabashedly love almost anything I watch without criticism. I was referring to my Top 10 from my submission list for this year, which I thought others were previously talking about, but maybe I misinterpreted. I definitely should have made that clearer. I think all of the films in my Top 10 for my 2020 500 <400 list are great, but I would save "love" for my absolute favorite films of all time, which some of them are not.

I understood it that way Dolwphin interpreted it weirdly, I'm sure he had no ill intent.

As much as I'd like to continue the debate on perception of films and the definition of enjoyment and how and in which way to benefit from the various manifestations of film -
I think we should get ourselves ready for the rest of the countdown, namely 501-1000!


PS: I feel bad if my comment above read like an attack on a single forum user; maybe I was not clear enough in phrasing a more general thought.

[Dolwphin]

Here I thought mightysparks was a curiosity, but then a user named ckfilm88 emerges who coldly remarks that he doesn't love some of her/his favorite films.

It seems you took my response out of context. I was only trying to defend myself because it seemed to be suggested that I unabashedly love almost anything I watch without criticism. I was referring to my Top 10 from my submission list for this year, which I thought others were previously talking about, but maybe I misinterpreted. I definitely should have made that clearer. I think all of the films in my Top 10 for my 2020 500 <400 list are great, but I would save "love" for my absolute favorite films of all time, which some of them are not.

I understood it that way Dolwphin interpreted it weirdly, I'm sure he had no ill intent.

As much as I'd like to continue the debate on perception of films and the definition of enjoyment and how and in which way to benefit from the various manifestations of film -
I think we should get ourselves ready for the rest of the countdown, namely 501-1000!


PS: I feel bad if my comment above read like an attack on a single forum user; maybe I was not clear enough in phrasing a more general thought.

You could maybe be hired by CNN with that lovely civility? Also, this conversation is very polarized, and people don't agree with my point of view, so that is very alarming don't you think folks?

[Torgo]

You could maybe be hired by CNN with that lovely civility? Also, this conversation is very polarized, and people don't agree with my point of view, so that is very alarming don't you think folks?

I can switch my tone any second, I have enough experience in Reddit, ED, 4chan and troll culture for that.
My (boring) impression was we try to stick closer to a constructive CNN-sort of debate here rather than the commentary section on Breitbart.