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New Official List Discussion

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Re: New Official List Discussion

#4761

Post by Knaldskalle » July 14th, 2020, 3:26 pm

Onderhond wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 12:53 pm
Tasselfoot wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 12:23 pm
If you were going to do a fan/forum top1000... why would you not use iCM forums?
The main reason would be that we'd be running in circles. But considering the current adoption criteria, that's pretty much the case already.
I agree with the first part, not sure I agree with the second part.

I know most people here won't fall into that category (or will at least deny that they do), but there's a sizable bias in which movies people check, with official checks far more likely to happen than unofficial checks. That means that the movies people are exposed to are more likely to be official checks, which in turn means that people's favorites are more likely to be official (faves being a subset of the total) and that in turn means that any 'favorite' list of ours is more likely to contain a lot of official checks. It's not just running in circles, it's almost incestuous at that point. Blech!

As for the second part, I think it's reasonable that mods set some criteria for the lists they want to consider for "officialdom." As to exactly what those criteria are (or should be) can always be debated, but I think that the mods in general have a pretty good handle on that part. The problem is, of course, that the habit(?) of making lists of movies seems to be particular to Western critics or Western film audiences (there's also a language barrier, and other factors), which means that most movie lists I've seen are Western focused (not the genre, the geo-political entity). Even most of the lists of other Continents are by Westerners who have developed an interest in that area's films (the African Movies list and Asian Film Guide for instance). So yes, if you want to stick to your criteria you may have a hard time finding good "qualifiying" lists from these areas, but I'm not sure whether that's an implicit Western bias towards other areas (because list-making seems to be a Western cultural activity that's not readily seen elsewhere) or it's because the critera set are poor. I think you can reasonably argue either way. I think that if you keep looking you'll eventually find good lists that will cover the lacking areas, but we do have to have patience for that approach to work.

Full disclosure: I used to be a mod on iCM, so take my opinion with the appropriate amount of salt. ;)
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#4762

Post by Knaldskalle » July 14th, 2020, 3:29 pm

Onderhond wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 1:46 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 1:08 pm
I think there is enough ground still to cover without having to look beyond our current adoption criteria.
Well yes, it's a matter of either plugging that final 10% or arthouse and critics favorites, or trying to cover some of the vast masses of unexplored genre, indie and commercial films (especially the non-so-English ones).
You just made the same point I did in my post above, but much more succinct and to the point. Touche!
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#4763

Post by Lonewolf2003 » July 14th, 2020, 3:38 pm

Onderhond wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 1:46 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 1:08 pm
I think there is enough ground still to cover without having to look beyond our current adoption criteria.
Well yes, it's a matter of either plugging that final 10% or arthouse and critics favorites, or trying to cover some of the vast masses of unexplored genre, indie and commercial films (especially the non-so-English ones).
My point was that we are able to cover unexplored genres, indie, countries, commercial films and so on with lists that fit our criteria. I wasn't talking about covering the remaining 10% of the arthouse and critics favorites. Tho I'm not sure all those country and genres lists would appeal to you and they probably still will be way too arthouse and critics favorited orientated for you.

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#4764

Post by Lakigigar » July 14th, 2020, 3:40 pm

From popular genre films to cult avant-garde works, this book is an essential guide to Japan's vibrant cinema culture. It collects two decades of the best of Mark Schilling's film writing for Variety, Japan Times, and other publications. The book offers an in-depth look at hundreds of landmark Japanese movies as well as undeservedly neglected ones. The essays and detailed analyses are interwoven with more than sixty interviews showcasing Japan's most talented directors and stars. This book enables students, teachers, and lovers of Japanese cinema to make new discoveries while learning more about their favorite films.

Mark Schilling set off for Japan in 1975 to immerse himself in the culture, learn the language, and haunt the theaters. He has been there ever since. In 1989 he became a regular film reviewer for The Japan Times, and has written on Japanese film for publications including Variety, Screen International, Premier, Newsweek, Wall Street Journal, Japan Quarterly, Winds, Cinemaya, and Kinema Jumpo.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... onderhond/

This is such a great list for Japan.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/best ... plists&asc

Great list, but it's a bit short. I'm looking further.

https://www.easternkicks.com/features/t ... the-decade

Also a great list, will add this to ICM.

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#4765

Post by Lonewolf2003 » July 14th, 2020, 3:48 pm

Knaldskalle wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:26 pm
Onderhond wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 12:53 pm
Tasselfoot wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 12:23 pm
If you were going to do a fan/forum top1000... why would you not use iCM forums?
The main reason would be that we'd be running in circles. But considering the current adoption criteria, that's pretty much the case already.
I agree with the first part, not sure I agree with the second part.

I know most people here won't fall into that category (or will at least deny that they do), but there's a sizable bias in which movies people check, with official checks far more likely to happen than unofficial checks. That means that the movies people are exposed to are more likely to be official checks, which in turn means that people's favorites are more likely to be official (faves being a subset of the total) and that in turn means that any 'favorite' list of ours is more likely to contain a lot of official checks. It's not just running in circles, it's almost incestuous at that point. Blech!

As for the second part, I think it's reasonable that mods set some criteria for the lists they want to consider for "officialdom." As to exactly what those criteria are (or should be) can always be debated, but I think that the mods in general have a pretty good handle on that part. The problem is, of course, that the habit(?) of making lists of movies seems to be particular to Western critics or Western film audiences (there's also a language barrier, and other factors), which means that most movie lists I've seen are Western focused (not the genre, the geo-political entity). Even most of the lists of other Continents are by Westerners who have developed an interest in that area's films (the African Movies list and Asian Film Guide for instance). So yes, if you want to stick to your criteria you may have a hard time finding good "qualifiying" lists from these areas, but I'm not sure whether that's an implicit Western bias towards other areas (because list-making seems to be a Western cultural activity that's not readily seen elsewhere) or it's because the critera set are poor. I think you can reasonably argue either way. I think that if you keep looking you'll eventually find good lists that will cover the lacking areas, but we do have to have patience for that approach to work.

Full disclosure: I used to be a mod on iCM, so take my opinion with the appropriate amount of salt. ;)
Another simple reason is that all mods don't speak Asian languages so the change of encountering such list on Asian websites is less. That's why we need input from others too.

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#4766

Post by mjf314 » July 14th, 2020, 3:53 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:00 pm
Cinema Tropical already started that precedent.
If we adopt region-decade lists, there are only about 4 or 5 regions to consider, which isn't too much. If we open it up to countries, then it's a lot more.
Lakigigar wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:00 pm
I'm not sure, but I would like a list as well that focuses on the best coming-of-age movies, although i haven't find any
I didn't look at it carefully, so I'm not sure if it's good, but here's a list: https://filmschoolrejects.com/best-comi ... ge-movies/
Lakigigar wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:00 pm
We can always consider deleting the Filmtotaal official list which has been reset to it's earliest edition, is less interesting overall, only a top 100 and composed by much fewer members.
FilmTotaal was adopted to thank them for helping iCM, so I don't think Marijn will want to unadopt it.

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#4767

Post by Lakigigar » July 14th, 2020, 4:04 pm

I can't find good and long European top decade / 21st century. Northern America doesn't need lists. Latin America is already covered. And I have a hard time finding something for Eastern Asia, but I did found something. https://www.easternkicks.com/features/t ... the-decade

The coming-of-age list is good, but not perfect. Might add it to ICM as well.

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#4768

Post by brokenface » July 14th, 2020, 4:07 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:40 pm
From popular genre films to cult avant-garde works, this book is an essential guide to Japan's vibrant cinema culture. It collects two decades of the best of Mark Schilling's film writing for Variety, Japan Times, and other publications. The book offers an in-depth look at hundreds of landmark Japanese movies as well as undeservedly neglected ones. The essays and detailed analyses are interwoven with more than sixty interviews showcasing Japan's most talented directors and stars. This book enables students, teachers, and lovers of Japanese cinema to make new discoveries while learning more about their favorite films.

Mark Schilling set off for Japan in 1975 to immerse himself in the culture, learn the language, and haunt the theaters. He has been there ever since. In 1989 he became a regular film reviewer for The Japan Times, and has written on Japanese film for publications including Variety, Screen International, Premier, Newsweek, Wall Street Journal, Japan Quarterly, Winds, Cinemaya, and Kinema Jumpo.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... onderhond/

This is such a great list for Japan.
I note in the description it says:

"All the films reviewed in Art, Cult and Commerce - Japanese cinema since 2000, a collection of reviews, interviews and personal best lists of writer Mark Schilling"

is this list made up from his personal best lists or all reviews? I'm assuming latter, but thinking personal bests might make for a better list for ICM?
Last edited by brokenface on July 14th, 2020, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#4769

Post by Onderhond » July 14th, 2020, 4:08 pm

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:38 pm
and they probably still will be way too arthouse and critics favorited orientated
Exactly. Hence why I wouldn't be very happy with the Kinema Junpo representing modern Japan.
Last edited by Onderhond on July 14th, 2020, 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#4770

Post by brokenface » July 14th, 2020, 4:16 pm

I notice someone's made a partial list of his yearly top 10s, maybe that would be route to go if could be completed.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... s/max-scl/

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#4771

Post by Onderhond » July 14th, 2020, 4:17 pm

brokenface wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:07 pm
is this list made up from his personal best lists or all reviews? I'm assuming latter, but thinking personal bests might make for a better list for ICM?
Most of them are positive, only a few negative review, all are notable films.

Still better than the Asian Field Guide (check Seven Years in Tibet last week!)

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#4772

Post by mjf314 » July 14th, 2020, 4:18 pm

brokenface wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:16 pm
I notice someone's made a partial list of his yearly top 10s, maybe that would be route to go if could be completed.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... s/max-scl/
Do you know if he has any older top 10s? Or was 2007 his first top 10?

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#4773

Post by Lonewolf2003 » July 14th, 2020, 4:19 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:00 pm
mjf314 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 2:25 pm
I agree, there should be more national award lists. There are a few that the mods are considering.
Lakigigar wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 11:30 am
http://www.modernkoreancinema.com/2019/ ... 2010s.html

A good Korea decade list that would cover the decade.
If we adopt a country-decade list, then it starts a precedent. If we start adopting country-decade lists for every country and every decade, there would be too many, and if we only adopt a few, the choice of which ones to adopt would seem arbitrary.

Cinema Tropical already started that precedent. We could consider good decade country lists for major film countries and decades not covered in other lists, filling gaps (for now / temporarily). If a list is very qualitative, i'm not sure why it couldn't been added. Some countries that could use decade / 21st century lists are Italy, France, Germany, South-Korea, Japan, China/HK, Eastern Europe/Russia as a whole and maybe India / other large regions, unless the region / country is already covered by multiple lists with this decade covered, which is not the case yet. Ideally, the Korea and Asia book lists should be updated, than there is less of a problem, although the Asian cult cinema is less covered. My point is that Korean cinema started to flourish only in the 21st century, and that Japanese cult / genre cinema is underrepresented, and both countries recent movies from the last 12 years aren't well represented in lists, which is why I believe they need it more than other countries / regions, although i'm less informed about their status.
I personally am not against adopting lists for the 21st century (or 2000 or 2010s decade) list for regions and in lesser extent for the biggest movie countries. I would draw the line at the 21st century decades. I don't think we need a list for all regions or big countries for every decade.

Asian cult and genre, and not just contemporary ones, are indeed underrepresented. Any tips for good list for those are most welcome.

I also agree that 21st century Korean cinema isn't covered well enough by the current two lists, hopefully we can replace one of those with a list that focus (more) on 21st century movies, cause that is indeed the heydays of Korean cinema and what most people are interested in.
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on July 14th, 2020, 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#4774

Post by Onderhond » July 14th, 2020, 4:20 pm

mjf314 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:18 pm
brokenface wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:16 pm
I notice someone's made a partial list of his yearly top 10s, maybe that would be route to go if could be completed.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... s/max-scl/
Do you know if he has any older top 10s? Or was 2007 his first top 10?
2001 & 2019 are missing, 2018 is just 5 entries (they're in the book too)

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#4775

Post by Knaldskalle » July 14th, 2020, 4:24 pm

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:48 pm
Knaldskalle wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 3:26 pm
Onderhond wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 12:53 pm

The main reason would be that we'd be running in circles. But considering the current adoption criteria, that's pretty much the case already.
I agree with the first part, not sure I agree with the second part.

I know most people here won't fall into that category (or will at least deny that they do), but there's a sizable bias in which movies people check, with official checks far more likely to happen than unofficial checks. That means that the movies people are exposed to are more likely to be official checks, which in turn means that people's favorites are more likely to be official (faves being a subset of the total) and that in turn means that any 'favorite' list of ours is more likely to contain a lot of official checks. It's not just running in circles, it's almost incestuous at that point. Blech!

As for the second part, I think it's reasonable that mods set some criteria for the lists they want to consider for "officialdom." As to exactly what those criteria are (or should be) can always be debated, but I think that the mods in general have a pretty good handle on that part. The problem is, of course, that the habit(?) of making lists of movies seems to be particular to Western critics or Western film audiences (there's also a language barrier, and other factors), which means that most movie lists I've seen are Western focused (not the genre, the geo-political entity). Even most of the lists of other Continents are by Westerners who have developed an interest in that area's films (the African Movies list and Asian Film Guide for instance). So yes, if you want to stick to your criteria you may have a hard time finding good "qualifiying" lists from these areas, but I'm not sure whether that's an implicit Western bias towards other areas (because list-making seems to be a Western cultural activity that's not readily seen elsewhere) or it's because the critera set are poor. I think you can reasonably argue either way. I think that if you keep looking you'll eventually find good lists that will cover the lacking areas, but we do have to have patience for that approach to work.

Full disclosure: I used to be a mod on iCM, so take my opinion with the appropriate amount of salt. ;)
Another simple reason is that all mods don't speak Asian languages so the change of encountering such list on Asian websites is less. That's why we need input from others too.
That was what I meant by the language barrier. Also not all websites are immediately accessible to Westerners (search engines are not the be-all end-all we tend to think they are) so someone has to "find" the list first and not all lists are on websites. There's a myriad of reasons why we might miss lists from any given area.
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#4776

Post by mjf314 » July 14th, 2020, 4:28 pm

Onderhond wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:20 pm
mjf314 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:18 pm
brokenface wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:16 pm
I notice someone's made a partial list of his yearly top 10s, maybe that would be route to go if could be completed.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... s/max-scl/
Do you know if he has any older top 10s? Or was 2007 his first top 10?
2001 & 2019 are missing, 2018 is just 5 entries (they're in the book too)
Do you have a link to the 2001 list and the 2019 list?

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#4777

Post by Lonewolf2003 » July 14th, 2020, 4:33 pm

mjf314 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:28 pm
Onderhond wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:20 pm
mjf314 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:18 pm


Do you know if he has any older top 10s? Or was 2007 his first top 10?
2001 & 2019 are missing, 2018 is just 5 entries (they're in the book too)
Do you have a link to the 2001 list and the 2019 list?
Here's a link to his personal website: http://japanesemovies.homestead.com/. They might be on there.

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#4778

Post by Onderhond » July 14th, 2020, 4:37 pm

mjf314 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:28 pm
Do you have a link to the 2001 list and the 2019 list?
I think 2001 is missing because he didn't make it. 2019 might've been too close to the release (which was late 2019).

I'm less interested in his Top 10s though.

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#4779

Post by Lakigigar » July 14th, 2020, 4:45 pm

I prefer the book as well, and this https://www.easternkicks.com/features/t ... the-decade

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#4780

Post by mjf314 » July 14th, 2020, 4:53 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:45 pm
I prefer the book as well, and this https://www.easternkicks.com/features/t ... the-decade
When we first found this list, someone pointed out that the country distribution isn't very good. It focuses mostly on Korea, Japan, China, and HK, and only includes 1 Indian film.

Otherwise it looks like a good list. I would consider adopting it if the other mods agree.



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#4783

Post by max-scl » July 14th, 2020, 6:25 pm

mjf314 wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:18 pm
brokenface wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:16 pm
I notice someone's made a partial list of his yearly top 10s, maybe that would be route to go if could be completed.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/mark ... s/max-scl/
Do you know if he has any older top 10s? Or was 2007 his first top 10?
I made the list and couldn't find his top 10 from previous years, and 2008 is missing
Edit: oh, so all his top10's are in the book, where can I find them? just to complete the list

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#4784

Post by xianjiro » July 14th, 2020, 7:14 pm

Knaldskalle wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:24 pm

That was what I meant by the language barrier. Also not all websites are immediately accessible to Westerners (search engines are not the be-all end-all we tend to think they are) so someone has to "find" the list first and not all lists are on websites. There's a myriad of reasons why we might miss lists from any given area.
yeah, I'm guessing search engines see the language and location of the user and look for sites that will 'make sense' for that user. (Otherwise think of the gawdawful search results we'd get if searched for "best Chinese restaurant".) I wonder how different the results would be to a query like Top 5 Japanese Film Critics and 日本の映画批評家トップ5 (Nihon no eiga hihyō-ka toppu 5) especially if the latter were run from a computer actually located in Japan. Imagine the same thing for China/HK/Taiwan.

But even if, let's say, we users could run these queries and then parse the results through a translator, it's an awful lot of work and still not quite the same as having Japanese and Chinese users who know something about Japanese and Chinese cinema and criticism. And of course the list isn't quite endless, but could be replicated at least fifty times for other countries/regions wherein the language/script is a barrier (Russia or Thailand are good examples). I also chose "film critics" since it was easy and I can make a little sense of the Japanese/Kanji/katakana. Not sure I could do that with film critic websites or publications. I imagine both Japan and China have equivalents of BFI, AFI, and we already know about Kinema Junpo (Cahiers-like, sorta) and Douban (IMDb-like though I only know what some of the mods have reported about it). Gawd knows they also have equivalents of the BBC, but I don't think relying on the Japan Times (and I don't remember what their film criticism was like) would be anywhere as useful as something written in Japanese by the NHK or any of the large dailies like Asahi Shimbun. Of course China presents other problems with the whole 'official' and censorship thing.

btw: also on full disclosure, I too am also a former iCM mod so I'm no longer part of these 'official' discussions.

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#4785

Post by flavo5000 » July 14th, 2020, 10:28 pm

I'm just catching up on this thread from the last few weeks. Not to derail too much from the contemporary Asian cinema conversation (which I do 100% is grossly underrepresented on official lists right now), but I also want to echo the desire for a new cult movies list for pretty much the same reasons. I quite like the Best B-Movies list and the AVClub canon but both are missing newer films that have gained cult status like The Gingerdead Man and Neil Breen's oeuvre as well as older films that have gained more of a cult audience in recent years like Science Crazed and Death Bed (which did end up getting official through the Certified Weird list). I think if the AV Club list hadn't stopped it would've filled this gap but as-is, what we've got ain't cuttin' it.
As mjf314 mentioned earlier in the thread I think this Paste list is a solid choice: Paste The 100 Best B-Movies of All-Time
This one pulled from the book The Bad Movie Bible would be a good complement as well: The Bad Movie Bible

I do agree that we could use a good Southeast Asia list as well. That seems a large enough industry to warrant at least one official list.

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#4786

Post by sol » July 15th, 2020, 4:05 pm

Are we still replacing the Livejournal Russian list? Would be nice to know before the September Challenge begins.

Also, I hope the mods are still considering the Caribbean list that I highlighted a few months ago. Definitely an area that could benefit from more exposure.
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#4787

Post by joachimt » July 15th, 2020, 5:17 pm

sol wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Are we still replacing the Livejournal Russian list? Would be nice to know before the September Challenge begins.
Yes
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#4788

Post by jeroeno » July 15th, 2020, 5:43 pm

joachimt wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 5:17 pm
sol wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Are we still replacing the Livejournal Russian list? Would be nice to know before the September Challenge begins.
Yes
Replacing it with what?

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#4789

Post by joachimt » July 15th, 2020, 6:15 pm

jeroeno wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 5:43 pm
joachimt wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 5:17 pm
sol wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Are we still replacing the Livejournal Russian list? Would be nice to know before the September Challenge begins.
Yes
Replacing it with what?
https://discuss.icheckmovies.com/t/shou ... -list/3926
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#4790

Post by xianjiro » July 15th, 2020, 6:42 pm

sol wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Also, I hope the mods are still considering the Caribbean list that I highlighted a few months ago. Definitely an area that could benefit from more exposure.
Is it on your iCM list page? I think I missed it and am certainly curious. edit: just checked by didn't find it.

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#4791

Post by mjf314 » July 15th, 2020, 6:59 pm

xianjiro wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 6:42 pm
sol wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Also, I hope the mods are still considering the Caribbean list that I highlighted a few months ago. Definitely an area that could benefit from more exposure.
Is it on your iCM list page? I think I missed it and am certainly curious. edit: just checked by didn't find it.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/cari ... /ataraxic/
http://cfdb.online/index.php/classics/
http://cfdb.online/index.php/who-we-are/

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#4792

Post by xianjiro » July 15th, 2020, 7:43 pm

mjf314 wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 6:59 pm
xianjiro wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 6:42 pm
sol wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 4:05 pm
Also, I hope the mods are still considering the Caribbean list that I highlighted a few months ago. Definitely an area that could benefit from more exposure.
Is it on your iCM list page? I think I missed it and am certainly curious. edit: just checked by didn't find it.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/cari ... /ataraxic/
http://cfdb.online/index.php/classics/
http://cfdb.online/index.php/who-we-are/
thanks!

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sol can find me here

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#4793

Post by max-scl » July 15th, 2020, 8:27 pm

Great list! (the Caribbean one), I think it needs an update? I count 46 films in the webpage (vs 40 in the icm list)

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#4794

Post by weirdboy » July 15th, 2020, 10:51 pm

xianjiro wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 7:14 pm
Knaldskalle wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:24 pm

That was what I meant by the language barrier. Also not all websites are immediately accessible to Westerners (search engines are not the be-all end-all we tend to think they are) so someone has to "find" the list first and not all lists are on websites. There's a myriad of reasons why we might miss lists from any given area.
yeah, I'm guessing search engines see the language and location of the user and look for sites that will 'make sense' for that user. (Otherwise think of the gawdawful search results we'd get if searched for "best Chinese restaurant".) I wonder how different the results would be to a query like Top 5 Japanese Film Critics and 日本の映画批評家トップ5 (Nihon no eiga hihyō-ka toppu 5) especially if the latter were run from a computer actually located in Japan.
I can tell you that the result is going to depend on the browser, search website, and the OS region & language settings in addition to the location of the actual machine. I often get bizarre blends of English and Japanese results when searching for stuff in English although if I search in Japanese it is generally more consistent. Sometimes Google and others also try to translate my searches which makes for interesting results. Searching on Amazon Japan specifically it almost always tries to automatically translate my search entry even when it's already in Japanese, leading to some hilarious results.


When I ran the specific search above I did not get very useful results. Article about specific actor, wiki entry on the critics prize, and one list which was the critics pick top 10 movies over 3 hours:

https://movie.walkerplus.com › ...
批評家が選ぶ、“3時間超え映画”10選!『七人の侍』など“フレッシュ”な名作がズラリ - MOVIE ...

I am extremely busy with work lately and honestly it has been difficult to do cinema related stuff since pandemic started, but i expect there are a few books around at least. Japan tends to be more paper based so I fully anticipate there are loads of material offline that could be useful.

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#4795

Post by weirdboy » July 15th, 2020, 10:57 pm

xianjiro wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 7:14 pm
Knaldskalle wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 4:24 pm

That was what I meant by the language barrier. Also not all websites are immediately accessible to Westerners (search engines are not the be-all end-all we tend to think they are) so someone has to "find" the list first and not all lists are on websites. There's a myriad of reasons why we might miss lists from any given area.
yeah, I'm guessing search engines see the language and location of the user and look for sites that will 'make sense' for that user. (Otherwise think of the gawdawful search results we'd get if searched for "best Chinese restaurant".) I wonder how different the results would be to a query like Top 5 Japanese Film Critics and 日本の映画批評家トップ5 (Nihon no eiga hihyō-ka toppu 5) especially if the latter were run from a computer actually located in Japan.
I can tell you that the result is going to depend on the browser, search website, and the OS region & language settings in addition to the location of the actual machine. I often get bizarre blends of English and Japanese results when searching for stuff in English although if I search in Japanese it is generally more consistent. Sometimes Google and others also try to translate my searches which makes for interesting results. Searching on Amazon Japan specifically it almost always tries to automatically translate my search entry even when it's already in Japanese, leading to some hilarious results.


When I ran the specific search above I did not get very useful results. Article about specific actor, wiki entry on the critics prize, and one list which was the critics pick top 10 movies over 3 hours:

https://movie.walkerplus.com › ...
批評家が選ぶ、“3時間超え映画”10選!『七人の侍』など“フレッシュ”な名作がズラリ - MOVIE ...

And when I click the link it turns out to just be a reference to rotten tomatoes.

I am extremely busy with work lately and honestly it has been difficult to do cinema related stuff since pandemic started, but i expect there are a few books around at least. Japan tends to be more paper based so I fully anticipate there are loads of material offline that could be useful.

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#4796

Post by xianjiro » July 15th, 2020, 11:17 pm

yeah, computers were pretty rare when I was there, but not at rare as credit/debit cards! Thanks for giving it a shot though.

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#4797

Post by dirty_score » July 17th, 2020, 10:12 am

Just having seen "Berlin Calling" I thought a Music list (like the IMDB one) would be really nice. (Are there really any good ones?)

Maybe a new Musical list too. The BFI list only has 6 movies from the 21st century.

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#4798

Post by mjf314 » July 17th, 2020, 12:45 pm

dirty_score wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 10:12 am
Just having seen "Berlin Calling" I thought a Music list (like the IMDB one) would be really nice. (Are there really any good ones?)

Maybe a new Musical list too. The BFI list only has 6 movies from the 21st century.
I don't know if it's good, but here's a music list: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... iedearest/

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#4799

Post by dirty_score » July 17th, 2020, 2:58 pm

mjf314 wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 12:45 pm
dirty_score wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 10:12 am
Just having seen "Berlin Calling" I thought a Music list (like the IMDB one) would be really nice. (Are there really any good ones?)

Maybe a new Musical list too. The BFI list only has 6 movies from the 21st century.
I don't know if it's good, but here's a music list: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... iedearest/
Thanks. It seems quite decent and very eclectic but ideally, to me, would be less documentary and biographical. Something like "Whiplash", "Once" or "Coco".

Maybe with some dancing movies? 31 Best Dance Movies of All Time :sweat:

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#4800

Post by beasterne » July 17th, 2020, 4:02 pm

dirty_score wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 2:58 pm
mjf314 wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 12:45 pm
dirty_score wrote:
July 17th, 2020, 10:12 am
Just having seen "Berlin Calling" I thought a Music list (like the IMDB one) would be really nice. (Are there really any good ones?)

Maybe a new Musical list too. The BFI list only has 6 movies from the 21st century.
I don't know if it's good, but here's a music list: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/time ... iedearest/
Thanks. It seems quite decent and very eclectic but ideally, to me, would be less documentary and biographical. Something like "Whiplash", "Once" or "Coco".

Maybe with some dancing movies? 31 Best Dance Movies of All Time :sweat:
Weird, I have already added a best dance scenes of all time list that also has 31 entries to ICM. I figured it was the same list, but the authors and entries are different. Why the similar number of 31 movies for a list about dancing?

Anyway, here's the article I used, and the ICM list:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... ce-scenes/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/31+b ... beasterne/

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