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2020 Challenges: Country/Region Challenges Discussion Thread

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2020 Challenges: Country/Region Challenges Discussion Thread

#1

Post by sol » September 7th, 2019, 3:06 am

One of the biggest issues over the past two years that I have been hosting the Challenge Schedule polls is what to do with all of the regions of the world. Should various countries and regions be merged if it helps them make the cut, or should similar countries/regions be merged to make room for other countries and regions?

Last year, Mario Gaborović made an amazing suggestion that we will be following this year in order to avoid such conundrums. Rather than spend ages debating which countries to vote on and which to merge afterwards, we will instead be deciding on a predetermined set of world zones with as minimal overlap as possible.

These are the zones that Mario and the SCFZ team use:

Africa, Balkan, Benelux, Canada, Central America/Caribbean, China/HK/Taiwan, Eastern Europe, France, Germany/Austria/Switzerland, India, Iran, Italy, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Middle East, Nordic countries, Oceania, Russia/USSR, South America, Southeast Asia, Spain/Portugal, UK/Ireland and USA.

So, the question here is whether we want to go with those exact zones or generate our own zones.

Something that I particularly like about the SCFZ zones is splitting Central America/Caribbean, Mexico and South America, as opposed to giant Latin American/Caribbean Challenge that will be rolling out this year. I do, however, think that there is probably enough filmic output between Switzerland and Austria to run them as a separate challenge to Germany. Thoughts on this? I also think we might be excluding a region of the world unless we also include Central Asia to cover the countries east of the Middle East and west of China and India. Are there any other film producing countries not covered in the SCFZ split?

Adapted from the SCFZ zones, this is what we will be voting on this year at the moment. NOTE: This thread is not a poll, but rather a discussion thread about poll options.

Happy to take feedback on and adjust this. What does everyone else think about making Latin America less of a massive challenge?

2019 Challenges

Benelux
China/Hong Kong/Taiwan
Eastern Europe - excluding Russia and Balkans
France
Italy
Japan
Korean Peninsula
Mexico/Central America/Caribbean
Oceania
Russia/USSR
South America
UK/Ireland

Non-2019 Challenges

Africa
Balkans
Canada
Germany/Austria/Switzerland
Iberia (Spain, Portugal and surrounds)
India/Pakistan/Myanmar/Bangladesh
Iran/Central Asia
Middle East - excluding Iran
Nordic countries
Southeast Asia
Last edited by sol on September 11th, 2019, 10:06 am, edited 5 times in total.
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#2

Post by blocho » September 7th, 2019, 3:38 am

Are you asking us to vote in this thread or to comment on the geographic groupings into regions?

Assuming the latter, I would support grouping Mexico with Caribbean/Central America. Overall, I tend to favor larger groupings. For example, if Austria/Switzerland was put up for a vote separate from Germany, I doubt they would get voted in. A larger Germanosphere region would work better: Germany/Austria/Switzerland (plus all movies made in plautdietsch!).

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#3

Post by sol » September 7th, 2019, 4:28 am

blocho wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 3:38 am
Are you asking us to vote in this thread or to comment on the geographic groupings into regions?

Assuming the latter, I would support grouping Mexico with Caribbean/Central America. Overall, I tend to favor larger groupings. For example, if Austria/Switzerland was put up for a vote separate from Germany, I doubt they would get voted in. A larger Germanosphere region would work better: Germany/Austria/Switzerland (plus all movies made in plautdietsch!).
Yes - I'm looking for commentary and discussion about which country/regions to lump together before I open the polls.

You might have a point about grouping Mexico and Central America together, but keeping them separate from South America. Would love to hear more opinions about this, and also whether we should group Austria and Switzerland or not.
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#4

Post by peeptoad » September 7th, 2019, 11:02 am

blocho wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 3:38 am
Are you asking us to vote in this thread or to comment on the geographic groupings into regions?

Assuming the latter, I would support grouping Mexico with Caribbean/Central America. Overall, I tend to favor larger groupings. For example, if Austria/Switzerland was put up for a vote separate from Germany, I doubt they would get voted in. A larger Germanosphere region would work better: Germany/Austria/Switzerland (plus all movies made in plautdietsch!).
Agree. I think the last time we did this one it was German-speaking countries, incl. certain Swiss films, which opened it up a bit more. I also can get onboard with grouping Latin Amer and Mexico.

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#5

Post by hurluberlu » September 7th, 2019, 11:48 am

I would group indeed:
- Mexico+Central America/Caribean
- Germany+Swiss/Austria
but also
-Iran+Central Asia

Assuming South East Asia is actually South Asia excl. India (Pakistan...) and South East Asia.
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#6

Post by 3eyes » September 7th, 2019, 12:37 pm

hurluberlu wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 11:48 am
I would group indeed:
- Mexico+Central America/Caribean
- Germany+Swiss/Austria
but also
-Iran+Central Asia

Assuming South East Asia is actually South Asia excl. India (Pakistan...) and South East Asia.
I agree with this. Central Asia to include Afghanistan as well as Kazakhstan/Kirgizstan/Tajikistan/Turkmenistan / Uzbekistan (all post-USSR?)
(Pashto & Tajik are Persianate Languages, rest I think are Turkic.)

Where do Pakistan & Bangladesh fit into the larger scheme?
And what about Swiss movies in French or Italian (or Rhaetoromanisch)?
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#7

Post by sol » September 7th, 2019, 4:30 pm

Based on the suggestions so far here, I will currently merge Mexico with Central America and Germany with Austria and Switzerland.
3eyes wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 12:37 pm
hurluberlu wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 11:48 am
I would group indeed:
- Mexico+Central America/Caribean
- Germany+Swiss/Austria
but also
-Iran+Central Asia

Assuming South East Asia is actually South Asia excl. India (Pakistan...) and South East Asia.
I agree with this. Central Asia to include Afghanistan as well as Kazakhstan/Kirgizstan/Tajikistan/Turkmenistan / Uzbekistan (all post-USSR?)
(Pashto & Tajik are Persianate Languages, rest I think are Turkic.)

Where do Pakistan & Bangladesh fit into the larger scheme?
And what about Swiss movies in French or Italian (or Rhaetoromanisch)?
Yes, that's the whole idea of Central Asia -- to include Afghanistan and those former Soviet states.

Pakistan - I would personally include this in a Central Asian Challenge - same goes for all Asian countries east of Turkey/Iraq and west of India/China.

Bangladesh - I would personally include this in a Southeast Asian Challenge. Same for Bhutan, Myanmar and Nepal.

The trickiest one for me to work out is Mongolia. It's not really Central Asia, but that might be the best region to place it in Challenge-wise since it's not a big enough film producing country to have its own Challenge, and merging Mongolia with China or Russia feels weird to me.

All Swiss movies will be covered by the Swiss Challenge regardless of language. The Country/Region polls are based on geography, not language.
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#8

Post by maxwelldeux » September 7th, 2019, 7:45 pm

I don't feel super strong about the countries or their groupings, but I do like the idea of breaking up the "south of the USA" block into multiple regions.

The one I'd like to highlight is India - I think it gets an unfair shake, and we have three official lists specifically for that country. That would be the one country I'd like to promote.

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#9

Post by albajos » September 7th, 2019, 8:05 pm

India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma/Myanmar would make sense to put together though

All part of what once was British India

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#10

Post by maxwelldeux » September 7th, 2019, 9:24 pm

No clue if this would be popular, but what about the American South (i.e., Southeast, geographically)? It's a weird region with its own cultural identity that tends to be underdepicted in American film.

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#11

Post by sol » September 8th, 2019, 1:27 am

albajos wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 8:05 pm
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma/Myanmar would make sense to put together though

All part of what once was British India
Yes, I can do that.
maxwelldeux wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 9:24 pm
No clue if this would be popular, but what about the American South (i.e., Southeast, geographically)? It's a weird region with its own cultural identity that tends to be underdepicted in American film.
I don't object to that in principal, though I'm not sure how easy it would be to keep track of whether films were actually financed in the American South and made by American South filmmakers or simply shot down there.
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#12

Post by maxwelldeux » September 8th, 2019, 3:48 am

sol wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 1:27 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 9:24 pm
No clue if this would be popular, but what about the American South (i.e., Southeast, geographically)? It's a weird region with its own cultural identity that tends to be underdepicted in American film.
I don't object to that in principal, though I'm not sure how easy it would be to keep track of whether films were actually financed in the American South and made by American South filmmakers or simply shot down there.
Money is screwed up in the US so that's hard, but something shot in/set in the South is what I'm thinking - plenty of easy to tell films (e.g., Civil War/Slavery stories, Les Blank docs), some more difficult.

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#13

Post by 72allinncallme » September 8th, 2019, 11:43 am

Same goes here as well sol. I don’t see a reason why we need to repeat six country/region challenges next year.

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#14

Post by sol » September 8th, 2019, 11:54 am

72allinncallme wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 11:43 am
Same goes here as well sol. I don’t see a reason why we need to repeat six country/region challenges next year.
Of course. I said as much on the other thread (3 rather 6 polls) - assuming everyone is on board with the suggestion on the other thread.
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#15

Post by albajos » September 8th, 2019, 11:58 am

Wouldn't that be 2 polls then. One for 12 and one for 24.

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#16

Post by sol » September 8th, 2019, 12:03 pm

albajos wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 11:58 am
Wouldn't that be 2 polls then. One for 12 and one for 24.
If we go ahead with my second suggestion, then yes.

Essentially, there are two suggestions on the table, which I want approval for before going ahead:

(1) Change things around so that there are 12 Country/Region and 24 Anything Else Challenges

(2) Change the polling system so that we vote for everything in a single poll, rather than separating Repeat and 'New in 2020' options

I guess I could clarify this on the other thread.
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#17

Post by 3eyes » September 8th, 2019, 1:38 pm

Hmm. I'm OK with the first suggestion, I guess - how we would then divide them into 3 challenges might be a question, but that's so messy already....

Second one, no. It's very important to guard against repeating the same things over and over. Back when we used to do this by consensus, we looked forward and back and had some sense of cycling things with a certain regularity. We still need to pay attention to that. I lobbied for 3 monthly challenges instead of 2 because we also have to make room for new ideas.
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#18

Post by 72allinncallme » September 8th, 2019, 1:47 pm

3eyes wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 1:38 pm
Second one, no. It's very important to guard against repeating the same things over and over. Back when we used to do this by consensus, we looked forward and back and had some sense of cycling things with a certain regularity. We still need to pay attention to that. I lobbied for 3 monthly challenges instead of 2 because we also have to make room for new ideas.
I think we’ll end up with more repeating challenges if we stick to what was the original plan... Of course I have no way of knowing that, but that’s my belief.

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#19

Post by 3eyes » September 8th, 2019, 1:56 pm

You could be right. Assuming you do mean 2 or 3 polls instead of 4 or 6?
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#20

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » September 8th, 2019, 7:26 pm

Yes, I think Central Asia should probably be added to this.

I know this is an idea that isn't going to go anywhere but I must admit I quite like the thought of a Baltic Challenge just for Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania. I can dream, right. Don't think it would be very successful in terms of numbers...
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#21

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » September 9th, 2019, 7:16 am

One thing that could be an issue with the SCFZ way of dividing things up is overlap. I think that when a country is generally accepted to straddle various regions it should be eligible for the various challenges. For example, Egypt is in Africa and it is also in the Middle East. I think it would look rather silly to have an African Challenge without Egypt. Most of the Balkan nations are in Eastern Europe. I certainly wouldn't be in favour of an Eastern European Challenge excluding those Balkan countries in the future.

Basically what I'm advocating is that we should allow for reasonable overlap in our challenges.
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#22

Post by sol » September 9th, 2019, 8:24 am

One of the biggest issues that we have had (at least over the two years that I have run the challenge polls) is everybody taking the region/country results at the end of the polls, pulling them apart and working out what countries/regions can be shoved and squeezed together. I don't think this is productive and therefore I think it is better to have predetermined regions before voting. While some overlap is unavoidable (Egypt indeed), I think such cases should be rare exceptions rather than the rule. If we as a forum community don't think that the Balkans is a viable option on its own, then it should be included as part of the East European option before polling, rather than afterwards. For the moment, I'll merge Eastern European and the Balkans together. The other option would be to have "East Europe (excluding Balkans and Russia)" and Balkans on its own, just like we currently have Russia on its own.
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#23

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » September 9th, 2019, 8:33 am

I'd favour keeping Eastern Europe as it has been in recent incarnations. Let's see what others might think.

I think post-results discussion around mergings and the like can be fruitful and sensible but I understand that it might make things more difficult and fiddly for you.
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#24

Post by maxwelldeux » September 9th, 2019, 8:34 am

RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 7:16 am
Basically what I'm advocating is that we should allow for reasonable overlap in our challenges.
I agree with you in principle, but the obligatory point of clarification I would have is that I wouldn't want countries/regions large enough for a challenge on their own to be included in another challenge (e.g., we don't need Russia in the Eastern European challenge if we're having a Russian challenge).

And just saw sol's comment, and like the point there. Deciding this stuff a priori will help smooth the processes up later.

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#25

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » September 9th, 2019, 8:41 am

maxwelldeux wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 8:34 am
RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 7:16 am
Basically what I'm advocating is that we should allow for reasonable overlap in our challenges.
I agree with you in principle, but the obligatory point of clarification I would have is that I wouldn't want countries/regions large enough for a challenge on their own to be included in another challenge (e.g., we don't need Russia in the Eastern European challenge if we're having a Russian challenge).

And just saw sol's comment, and like the point there. Deciding this stuff a priori will help smooth the processes up later.
I agree on Russia. Having an Eastern Europe Challenge with Russia included would just be incongruous and out of place. Even if we were not to have a Russia Challenge in the same year, I wouldn't be in favour of it.
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#26

Post by 3eyes » September 9th, 2019, 12:27 pm

I agree.

Are we agreed about what to do about the non-Russian parts of the former USSR? - my understanding is that they count in Russian challenge during the Soviet period but not afterwards (or before, in case there are any silent Tajik films) -- ?
And Georgia/the Caucasus goes with Eastern Europe post -USSR?
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#27

Post by sol » September 9th, 2019, 12:33 pm

3eyes wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 12:27 pm
Are we agreed about what to do about the non-Russian parts of the former USSR? - my understanding is that they count in Russian challenge during the Soviet period but not afterwards (or before, in case there are any silent Tajik films) -- ?
And Georgia/the Caucasus goes with Eastern Europe post -USSR?
They count for the USSR section of the Russian Challenge if they were part of the USSR when the films were made.

Post-USSR, it depends on geography, but yes - contemporary films from that region would fall either in the East Europe or Central Asian Challenge - to the best of my understanding.
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#28

Post by sol » September 9th, 2019, 12:37 pm

maxwelldeux wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 3:48 am
sol wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 1:27 am
maxwelldeux wrote:
September 7th, 2019, 9:24 pm
No clue if this would be popular, but what about the American South (i.e., Southeast, geographically)? It's a weird region with its own cultural identity that tends to be underdepicted in American film.
I don't object to that in principal, though I'm not sure how easy it would be to keep track of whether films were actually financed in the American South and made by American South filmmakers or simply shot down there.
Money is screwed up in the US so that's hard, but something shot in/set in the South is what I'm thinking - plenty of easy to tell films (e.g., Civil War/Slavery stories, Les Blank docs), some more difficult.
Sorry, max - just realised that I forgot to get back to you on this.

From my point of view, if you are talking chiefly about setting, then that should come under the Theme/Anything Else banner, since for the Country/Region Challenges we tend to look at finance and filmmakers involved as opposed to where the film takes place or is set. Let's take another example. Would an Antarctica Challenge really be an Antarctica Country/Region Challenge if we all watched Herzog and Morgan Freeman documentaries shot there?
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#29

Post by 3eyes » September 9th, 2019, 2:35 pm

sol wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 12:37 pm
maxwelldeux wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 3:48 am
sol wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 1:27 am
I don't object to that in principal, though I'm not sure how easy it would be to keep track of whether films were actually financed in the American South and made by American South filmmakers or simply shot down there.
Money is screwed up in the US so that's hard, but something shot in/set in the South is what I'm thinking - plenty of easy to tell films (e.g., Civil War/Slavery stories, Les Blank docs), some more difficult.
Sorry, max - just realised that I forgot to get back to you on this.

From my point of view, if you are talking chiefly about setting, then that should come under the Theme/Anything Else banner, since for the Country/Region Challenges we tend to look at finance and filmmakers involved as opposed to where the film takes place or is set. Let's take another example. Would an Antarctica Challenge really be an Antarctica Country/Region Challenge if we all watched Herzog and Morgan Freeman documentaries shot there?
That reminds me: Alternatives to official challenges are: 1) find a preexisting unofficial challenge or start your own; 2) Join the Five of a Kind challenge - you can watch 5 (or more) movies on (almost) any theme or configuration you want - I did a set on Antarctica.
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#30

Post by maxwelldeux » September 9th, 2019, 5:13 pm

sol wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 12:37 pm
maxwelldeux wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 3:48 am
sol wrote:
September 8th, 2019, 1:27 am
I don't object to that in principal, though I'm not sure how easy it would be to keep track of whether films were actually financed in the American South and made by American South filmmakers or simply shot down there.
Money is screwed up in the US so that's hard, but something shot in/set in the South is what I'm thinking - plenty of easy to tell films (e.g., Civil War/Slavery stories, Les Blank docs), some more difficult.
Sorry, max - just realised that I forgot to get back to you on this.

From my point of view, if you are talking chiefly about setting, then that should come under the Theme/Anything Else banner, since for the Country/Region Challenges we tend to look at finance and filmmakers involved as opposed to where the film takes place or is set. Let's take another example. Would an Antarctica Challenge really be an Antarctica Country/Region Challenge if we all watched Herzog and Morgan Freeman documentaries shot there?
I mean, I get your point, but there aren't people in Antarctica - a more apt metaphor would be the filmmaker making a film about some history in Western Australia, but the person writing the checks has the business incorporated in Sydney.

Honestly, though, it's discussing too fine of a point, so feel free to scrap the idea. Probably too hard to disentangle all the issues.

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#31

Post by flavo5000 » September 9th, 2019, 10:28 pm

I haven't seen any discussion on what's obviously the best option. 2 Challenges: 'Murica and Foreigners.
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:sarcasm:
But seriously, as far as thoughts on the "American South" goes, I agree with sol. This is really more of a theme. Many films set in the south aren't actually filmed there. And then you have quite a few films being shot in Georgia nowadays thanks to their tax breaks that have nothing to do with the south.

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#32

Post by peeptoad » September 10th, 2019, 12:21 pm

another thought on the Caribbean/Latin American/etc challenge(s): I know it's coming up next month in the larger format, but what are thoughts on splitting Caribbean off entirely on its own? On a quick country search of just 10 of those countries I came up with several thousand films. If even a moderate percentage is eliminated with all countries included that would still leave a substantial number.
Just an idea... Mexico and Central Amer seem like they fit together better than with the Carib. but just my opinion.

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#33

Post by Mario Gaborović » September 11th, 2019, 8:31 am

sol wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 8:24 am
One of the biggest issues that we have had (at least over the two years that I have run the challenge polls) is everybody taking the region/country results at the end of the polls, pulling them apart and working out what countries/regions can be shoved and squeezed together. I don't think this is productive and therefore I think it is better to have predetermined regions before voting. While some overlap is unavoidable (Egypt indeed), I think such cases should be rare exceptions rather than the rule. If we as a forum community don't think that the Balkans is a viable option on its own, then it should be included as part of the East European option before polling, rather than afterwards. For the moment, I'll merge Eastern European and the Balkans together. The other option would be to have "East Europe (excluding Balkans and Russia)" and Balkans on its own, just like we currently have Russia on its own.
Most of the 15 or so Balkan countries alone produced more films than the whole Africa or central Asia as a whole, but you still think it's not viable option on its own?

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#34

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » September 11th, 2019, 8:44 am

I'm not in favour of a Balkan challenge not being offered as a choice. I think it would be very interesting and worthwhile indeed. It probably shouldn't be run in the same year as an Eastern European challenge though.

That's why I believe there to be value in post-results dissection and arrangement. Whichever of the two proved to be more popular could get the nod.
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#35

Post by sol » September 11th, 2019, 10:05 am

peeptoad wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 12:21 pm
another thought on the Caribbean/Latin American/etc challenge(s): I know it's coming up next month in the larger format, but what are thoughts on splitting Caribbean off entirely on its own? On a quick country search of just 10 of those countries I came up with several thousand films. If even a moderate percentage is eliminated with all countries included that would still leave a substantial number.
Just an idea... Mexico and Central Amer seem like they fit together better than with the Carib. but just my opinion.
I'm happy to have Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean as three separate options if everybody else is.
Mario Gaborović wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 8:31 am
sol wrote:
September 9th, 2019, 8:24 am
If we as a forum community don't think that the Balkans is a viable option on its own, then it should be included as part of the East European option before polling, rather than afterwards.
Most of the 15 or so Balkan countries alone produced more films than the whole Africa or central Asia as a whole, but you still think it's not viable option on its own?
Not me specifically - us (including you). Unfortunately there has not been much feedback on this so far, but given the point you have raised, I will re-separate the Balkans and East Europe.
RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 8:44 am
That's why I believe there to be value in post-results dissection and arrangement.
I'm sorry, but unfortunately that's not going to happen as long as I am running the Challenge polls. The whole point of discussing set regions of the world is to avoid all of the messiness afterwards as everyone tries to squeeze zones together to get more stuff in. If we as a forum community believe that the Balkans has enough output to be considered as a region on its own, I think it should be voted as such.
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#36

Post by sol » September 11th, 2019, 10:17 am

blocho wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 2:30 am
albajos wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 8:10 pm
Just make 24 resonable terrotories, and swap between them bi-yearly
That makes ... perfect sense. It can't be that simple, can it?
Can we actually do this? Let's see:

1. Benelux
2. China/Hong Kong/Taiwan
3. Eastern Europe - excluding Russia and Balkans
4. France
5. Italy
6. Japan
7. Korean Peninsula
8. Mexico
9. Central America
10. Caribbean
11. Oceania
12. Russia/USSR
13. South America
14. UK/Ireland
15. Africa
16. Balkans
17. Canada
18. Germany/Austria/Switzerland
19. Iberia (Spain, Portugal and surrounds)
20. India/Pakistan/Myanmar/Bangladesh
21. Iran/Central Asia
22. Middle East - excluding Iran
23. Nordic countries
24. Southeast Asia

What does everybody else here think of albajos's suggestion? It might be the best way to solve this country/region quagmire.
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#37

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » September 11th, 2019, 10:23 am

Such a re-grouping happened last year with Mystery/Thriller/Suspense and the promotion of Romance (admittedly this wasn't in the regional section).

But, yes, I have no problem whatsoever with the Balkans being a stand-alone option. I might very well vote for it myself as we've had Eastern Europe in two out of the last three years.
That's all, folks!

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#38

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » September 11th, 2019, 10:29 am

Personally, I am not in favour of a roster of 24 fixed options. That's not me just being difficult, I hope.

As far as I can judge, France is run every year. I think Argentinian cinema is rich enough to potentially warrant a challenge of its own. As I've previously mentioned I would potentially like to support the idea of a Baltic challenge in the future.

I don't have a problem with the vast majority of these groupings but I would like there to be the opportunity to play around with things on occasion.
That's all, folks!

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#39

Post by albajos » September 11th, 2019, 10:48 am

sol wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 10:17 am
Can we actually do this? Let's see:
And if we take the 12 that have waited the longest this year, and in case of a tie, the ones held least amount of times, we probably don't need a poll at all.

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#40

Post by sol » September 11th, 2019, 10:54 am

albajos wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 10:48 am
sol wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 10:17 am
Can we actually do this? Let's see:
And if we take the 12 that have waited the longest this year, and in case of a tie, the ones held least amount of times, we probably don't need a poll at all.
Exactly. Do you have the spare time to run the numbers on this?
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