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Managers Cup, Match 1F: Onderhond vs filmbantha vs clemmetarey (Nov 21th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Managers Cup, Match 1F: Onderhond vs filmbantha vs clemmetarey (Nov 21th)

#1

Post by joachimt »

This is match 1F of iCM Forum's Managers Cup.

Original TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
Watashi no otokoMy Man2014Onderhondlinklink
Rocks in My Pockets2014filmbanthalinklink
Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal2002clemmetareylinklink

Screenshots
Watashi no otoko
Image

Rocks in My Pockets
Image

Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 3 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 3 films from most favorite to least favorite.

Voting deadline = Nov 21th
Countdown till deadline

The manager that ends at 1st place proceeds to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Ranked by highest average ranking (= lowest number).
- In case of a tie between two movies, head-to-head determines the winner (how many people thought A>B and how many thought B>A).
- In case there's still a tie after the previous rule or there is a tie between three movies, most #1-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? Fewest #3-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? The match will have a 3 day extension.
- The best two #2-movies (based on average ranking) proceed to the 2nd round as well.
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works
We start with 18 movies selected by 18 managers. In the first round the movies are divided into 6 groups of 3. From each group the countries that end up at #1 proceed to the next round. The two best #2's proceed as well. In the 2nd round the 8 remaining managers will be divided into 8 matches of 2 and they pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.
Rules for picking movies:
- Less than 1000 checks on iCM in round 1. Quarter finals: … checks. Semi finals: … checks. Final: … checks.
- Maximum runtime 180 min.
- No movies that have previously been selected for the World Cup.
- Not multiple movies by the same director.
- If two managers pick the same movie, the one who picked first gets it.
iCM-list of all movies in this Managers Cup

List of all topics related to the Managers Cup including previous seasons of the World Cup
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#2

Post by 72aicm »

1. Rocks in My Pockets
2. Watashi no otoko
3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal
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#3

Post by Armoreska »

Interesting bunch, look forward to watching em. 1 from Time Out 100, 2 more included in lists of interest that I submitted
he or A. or Armo or any

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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
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#4

Post by Mario Gaborović »

1. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal
2. Rocks in My Pockets
3. Watashi no otoko
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#5

Post by russa03 »

1. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal
2. Watashi no otoko
3. Rocks in My Pockets

I can't remember Disneyland too well but it wins this because Watashi no otoko, while it has a couple of engrossing scenes, is a dull unaffecting film which builds to nothing. Rocks in My Pockets might have been slightly interesting but the story is ruined by sub-Plympton animation which is frustratingly stilted and accompanied by a contender for the worst voice in film history.
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#6

Post by Armoreska »

1. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal 8ish
2. Rocks in My Pockets 7ish
3. Watashi no otoko 5ish
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#7

Post by Onderhond »

1. 4.5* - Watashi no Otoko
Spoiler
My Man has its fair share of uncomfortable scenes. I've become quite accustomed to sitting through some fucked up stuff, but Kumakiri still managed to make me twist in my chair on several occasions. It's not quite up there with Omori's Whispering of the Gods, and it's not as nihilistic or barren compared to similar films, but Kumakiri doesn't shy away from anything. He is quite open and direct when it comes to the film's themes, which is sure to put some off the queasier people in the audience. If you're up for a slice of madness wrapped up in heavy-handed dramatics, Kumakiri created quite the masterpiece. With a superb soundtrack, two killer leads and some visual panache, Kumakiri delivers a film that has the power to linger. That is, if you can stomach the punches My Man dishes out. My Man is probably a film that only speaks to a selected audience, but if you think you're a part of that audience, you simply cannot let this film slip by. My Man is a sublime kick to the gut that screams future classic.
2. 1.5* - Rocks in My Pockets
Spoiler
Signe Baumane tackles her troubled family history and her own mental health through the creation of an animated feature film. It's a highly personal story brought with a surprising level of wit, but the English narration is excruciating, and the animation quality is disappointing, undermining the entire film. Anna is a young woman who falls in love with a businessman 30 years her senior. Their love runs deep, but Anna's husband gets jealous and moves her to the forest, where she gets 8 kids. Years later, Anna's granddaughter asks her father about Anna's death, suspecting that she killed herself. I haven't found a trailer or excerpt from the Latvian version, but Baumane's English narration is simply horrendous. The animation is very bland too, it feels more like an afterthought, something that moves for people to look at while they listen to Baumane's story. It's a shame not more effort was put into the presentation, as it is now, it's better suited as a radio/podcast recording.
3. 0.5* - Disneyland, My Old Homeland
Spoiler
My best guess is that Arnaud des Pallières doesn't like Disneyland. Not sure what else to make of this documentary. The man sets up an analogy between Disneyland and Pied Piper of Hamelin, then plans a visit to the amusement park to shoot some footage, making that appear as depressing as possible. The doc clearly lacks an openness to experience this world many people love to visit, instead Pallières seems more interested in supporting his own ideas and talking about them endlessly. It really feels like this documentary was already "finished" before a single frame of footage was recorded.It certainly doesn't help that Pallières' attempts to add dread are horrendous. The music is cheap, the sound effects are hilarious, the short bits of animation are grating. It certainly wants to be very deep and serious and people sharing Pallières' sentiments might get a kick out of it, personally I didn't see anything more than 45 minutes of misdirected whining.
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#8

Post by zzzorf »

Onderhond wrote: November 3rd, 2021, 7:47 am 1. 4.5* - Watashi no Otoko
Spoiler
My Man has its fair share of uncomfortable scenes. I've become quite accustomed to sitting through some fucked up stuff, but Kumakiri still managed to make me twist in my chair on several occasions. It's not quite up there with Omori's Whispering of the Gods, and it's not as nihilistic or barren compared to similar films, but Kumakiri doesn't shy away from anything. He is quite open and direct when it comes to the film's themes, which is sure to put some off the queasier people in the audience. If you're up for a slice of madness wrapped up in heavy-handed dramatics, Kumakiri created quite the masterpiece. With a superb soundtrack, two killer leads and some visual panache, Kumakiri delivers a film that has the power to linger. That is, if you can stomach the punches My Man dishes out. My Man is probably a film that only speaks to a selected audience, but if you think you're a part of that audience, you simply cannot let this film slip by. My Man is a sublime kick to the gut that screams future classic.
2. 1.5* - Rocks in My Pockets
Spoiler
Signe Baumane tackles her troubled family history and her own mental health through the creation of an animated feature film. It's a highly personal story brought with a surprising level of wit, but the English narration is excruciating, and the animation quality is disappointing, undermining the entire film. Anna is a young woman who falls in love with a businessman 30 years her senior. Their love runs deep, but Anna's husband gets jealous and moves her to the forest, where she gets 8 kids. Years later, Anna's granddaughter asks her father about Anna's death, suspecting that she killed herself. I haven't found a trailer or excerpt from the Latvian version, but Baumane's English narration is simply horrendous. The animation is very bland too, it feels more like an afterthought, something that moves for people to look at while they listen to Baumane's story. It's a shame not more effort was put into the presentation, as it is now, it's better suited as a radio/podcast recording.
3. 0.5* - Disneyland, My Old Homeland
Spoiler
My best guess is that Arnaud des Pallières doesn't like Disneyland. Not sure what else to make of this documentary. The man sets up an analogy between Disneyland and Pied Piper of Hamelin, then plans a visit to the amusement park to shoot some footage, making that appear as depressing as possible. The doc clearly lacks an openness to experience this world many people love to visit, instead Pallières seems more interested in supporting his own ideas and talking about them endlessly. It really feels like this documentary was already "finished" before a single frame of footage was recorded.It certainly doesn't help that Pallières' attempts to add dread are horrendous. The music is cheap, the sound effects are hilarious, the short bits of animation are grating. It certainly wants to be very deep and serious and people sharing Pallières' sentiments might get a kick out of it, personally I didn't see anything more than 45 minutes of misdirected whining.
Hey, no need to hate on you opposition, your low scores don't make no difference and the rankings are what's taken into account. You don't have to make yours sound so much better.





........







..........







............





:sarcasm:
Yeah I realise who I'm saying this to and I realise that these scores are genuine, but alcohol makes me want to have some fun. :P
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#9

Post by Smoover »

1. Rocks in My Pockets 7/10
2. Watashi no otoko 6/10
3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal 6/10
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#10

Post by Armoreska »

Disneyland is crashing from a high

3-1-1-1-3-3

Rock is leading now
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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
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/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#11

Post by joachimt »

Only need to watch Onderhond's choice and he already has a very good chance of getting my vote.
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#12

Post by joachimt »

1. Watashi no otoko 7/10
2. Rocks in My Pockets 5/10
3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal 5/10
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#13

Post by Teproc »

1. Rocks in My Pockets - 8/10
2. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal - 6/10
3. Watashi no otoko - 3/10

Rocks in My Pockets (Signe Baumane, 2014)
Spoiler
A polymorphic film, starting out as a dark fairytale to evolve into a historical and genealogical exploration of the life of several women in 20th century Latvia, before turning into a deeply personal piece on mental illness, depression and suicide ideation. Bauman's narration has a peculiar rythm to it that can be distancing at times but also gets very touching as the film goes on and you understand how this is film as therapy and as a way to reach others to get away from that terrible underlying fear of going mad, there's a desperate need to connect to survive that comes through. The papier-mâché style of animation works pretty well here, I guess it has that otherworldly weirdness that works for the nature of what Bauman is talking about. Aside from that personal aspect, there's also this recurring pattern of "promising young women" - to take a particularly trendy way to put it - being crushed by the social roles they must fulfill as wives and mothers, bringing a more universal aspect to this very personal work.
Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal (Arnaud des Pallières 2002)
Spoiler
This is mostly succesful in the way it uses the inherently disturbing nature of Disneyland, a fake world that has its internal logic, a strange microcosm, and the idea that entering it is a way to travel in time in a way, to get back to the world of childhood, a world of imagination in a sense, that's all interesting, as is the comparison to the Pied Piper. It's also quite self-indulgent and lacks self-awareness and generally humour, and I don't think the way in which des Pallières is exploring those subjects quite rises to the level of philosophical interest that it would need to be this self-serious, but it's an intriguing enough thought experiment of sorts, and I did enjoy the use of Disneyland's own material as a way to underline the off-key nature of the whole endeavor.
Watashi no otoko (Kazuyoshi Kumakiri, 2014)
Spoiler
I can see some of the ideas that Kumakiri is working through here, notably that the main character gets somewhat brainwashed and that the only way she can live from then on is through attaching herself to "her man", whoever that man may turn out to be... but I found his ponderous, languid approach to be inadequate to this script, which really doesn't seem to have much going on aside from the mere depiction of an abusive relationship from the victim's pov. We never get any sense of any of the other characters, including the abuser himself - Tadanobu Asano can play this kind of role in his sleep, and. well, he kinda does exactly that here. I suppose one might say that's the point, the film is only really interested in her, but it just feels like a tight 90-minute script stretched to a 2-hour+ runtime by holding onto pretty banal shots for no particular reasons, not to mention the shoddy handhelf camerawork. There is some better use of imagery later on in the film, but I guess Kumakiri had long lost my interest by then, as I found the overall experience to feel incredibly monotonous and flat.
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#14

Post by shugs »

1. Rocks in My Pockets - 8/10
2. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal - 5/10
3. My Man - 4/10

Rocks in My Pockets was such a pleasant surprise. Thought I was gonna hate it based on the animation style and subject, but it was an endearing trip.
Disneyland is a meme video stretched to 45 minutes. Didn't have a bad time with it, but also forgot what the guy was rambling about in two days.
My Man tackles its subject matter too amateurishly to be good, using it more for shock value. Some nice visuals here and there, especially with the ice floes.
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#15

Post by pitchorneirda »

1. Rocks in My Pockets 7/10
2. Watashi no otoko 5.5/10
3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal 5/10

Every movie dealt with different kind of emotions, Rocks in My Pockets was probably the one I could relate the most to, and Watashi no otoko the least to, but I rate it higher than "Disneyland" because it's really gorgeous at times. Too slow, almost the Tsai Ming Liang kind of slow, but beautiful, when "Disneyland" isn't that memorable
"Art is like a fire, it is born from the very thing it burns" - Jean-Luc Godard
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#16

Post by Onderhond »

pitchorneirda wrote: November 10th, 2021, 12:12 pm Too slow, almost the Tsai Ming Liang kind of slow
Haha, I watched Tsai's Sand yesterday ... My Man is Tsukamoto compared to that one :P
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#18

Post by klaus78 »

1. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal
2. Watashi no otoko
3. Rocks in My Pockets
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#19

Post by Armoreska »

back to level
3-1-1-1-3-3-3-2-2-3-1-1
he or A. or Armo or any

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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#20

Post by filmbantha »

This has proven to be another divisive round thanks to the diverse selection of film on offer, I'm curious to see how this pans out.

1. Rocks In My Pocket 7/10 - I'm happy to see that my pick is resonating with some other users! I'm hopeful that it will make the 1000<400 list next year and would be very pleased if it sneaked into the main list although I think that could be a stretch. I'm contemplating a rewatch as, on reflection, I'm pretty sure that this would increase to an 8/10.

2. Watashi no otoko 6/10 - A striking film that handles a provocative subject in a somewhat insensitive manner. As others have mentioned there are some alluring shots, particularly the scenes over the ice floes but it does drag during the middle segment and feels a little too raw in places.

3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal 5/10 - An intriguing pick from Clemm but one that I struggled to connect with. The shots of the theme park were engaging at times but the philosophical pondering of the voiceover left me cold.
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#21

Post by pitchorneirda »

Come on guys, we need more votes
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#22

Post by Armoreska »

pitchorneirda wrote: November 19th, 2021, 6:27 pm Come on guys, we need more votes for Disneyland
that's better
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#23

Post by sol »

Many thanks to all the managers this round. Nothing that I hated - and a really tough choice between second and third spot for me.

1. Rocks in My Pockets https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/rocks-in-my-pockets/
2. My Man https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/my-man-2014/
3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/disney ... e-country/

No graph yet? :unsure:
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#24

Post by clemmetarey »

Almost forgot to vote...

1. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal (2002) 9/10
2. Watashi no otoko (2014) 6/10
3. Rocks in My Pockets (2014) 6/10
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#25

Post by pitchorneirda »

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#26

Post by pitchorneirda »

All other things being equal, the players that would proceed to the next round are:

beavis, OldAle1, toromash, pitchorneirda, sol, filmbantha (match winners)
and 72aicm (1.842), sacmersault (1.85) (best 2nd)

wasabi (2), zzzorf (2), Lakigigar (1.905), clemmetarey (2.067) fail to be among the two best 2nd
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#27

Post by pitchorneirda »

Still 33 hours (and at least 3 more voters) to change that

Edit: I think we can reasonably hope for the votes of beavis and mightysparks at the very least
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#28

Post by mightysparks »

1. Rocks in My Pockets - 5/10
2. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal - 4/10
3. My Man - 4/10

Rocks was interesting but I found it hard to enjoy. The narration was irritating and I thought more could've been done with the animation to bring out the humour and story more effectively.

Disneyland was a bit pointless and didn't know what I was meant to get out of it. Humourless and bland and picking on an easy target without anything new to say about it.

My Man felt about 5 hours long and was a drag. The beginning with the kid was good but after that it skipped all the potentially interesting parts of the characters lives and stories and ultimately just felt like nothing happened.
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#29

Post by joachimt »

sol wrote: November 20th, 2021, 4:51 am No graph yet? :unsure:
No JT, no graph, but luckily pitch stepped in. Here's confirmation.

15 hours left.

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#30

Post by beavis »

1. Watashi no otoko 7.5/10
2. Rocks in My Pockets 7/10
3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal 7/10
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#31

Post by OldAle1 »

Easiest ranking of the challenge so far - big gap between each of these three. No time or energy to write anything now, but may get around to it tomorrow.

1. Rocks in My Pockets EXCELLENT, and my favorite film of this exercise apart from my own pick

2. Watashi no otoko GOOD

3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal SO SO
edward5
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#32

Post by edward5 »

1. Rocks in My Pockets
2. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal
3. 私の男 (My Man)
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filmbantha
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#33

Post by filmbantha »

OldAle1 wrote: November 22nd, 2021, 2:39 am Easiest ranking of the challenge so far - big gap between each of these three. No time or energy to write anything now, but may get around to it tomorrow.

1. Rocks in My Pockets EXCELLENT, and my favorite film of this exercise apart from my own pick

2. Watashi no otoko GOOD

3. Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal SO SO
Really pleased to see my pick struck a chord with you OldAle! Looks like I'm through to round 2 so I hope I will be able to deliver the goods for you once again with my next film :thumbsup:
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joachimt
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#34

Post by joachimt »

Final score:
Image Rocks in My Pockets: 1.684 (25-13)
Image Watashi no otoko: 2.158 (16-22)
Image Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal: 2.158 (16-22)

Head to head:
Image Watashi no otoko - Image Rocks in My Pockets: 7 - 12
Image Watashi no otoko - Image Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal: 9 - 10
Image Rocks in My Pockets - Image Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal: 13 - 6

So Disneyland ended at 2nd place.

Other stats:

Number of #1-votes
Image Watashi no otoko: 3
Image Rocks in My Pockets: 10
Image Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal: 6

Number of #3-votes
Image Watashi no otoko: 6
Image Rocks in My Pockets: 4
Image Disneyland, mon vieux pays natal: 9
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joachimt
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#35

Post by joachimt »

Participation in round 1:

Image
17 users with 6/6
72aicm
pitchorneirda
Teproc
sol
Onderhond
shugs
clemmetarey
filmbantha
zzzorf
klaus78
Armoreska
Smoover
mightysparks
joachimt
OldAle1
Mario Gaborović
edward5
the rest
beavis (5)
russa03 (5)
Marazmatique (4)
wasabi (3)
Angel Glez (3)
sacmersault (2)
Melvelet (1)
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Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
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