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Managers Cup: Round 1 Schedule, 1B: russa03 vs zzzorf vs OldAle1 (Sep 26th)

Managers Cup, Match 1B: russa03 vs zzzorf vs OldAle1 (Sep 26th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Managers Cup, Match 1B: russa03 vs zzzorf vs OldAle1 (Sep 26th)

#1

Post by joachimt »

This is match 1B of iCM Forum's Managers Cup.

Original TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
Aeg mahaTime Out1985russa03linklink
MôjûBlind Beast1969zzzorflinklink
Bé omid é didarGoodbye2011OldAle1linklink

Screenshots
Aeg maha
Image

Môjû
Image

Bé omid é didar
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 3 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 3 films from most favorite to least favorite.

Voting deadline = Sep 26th
Countdown till deadline

The manager that ends at 1st place proceeds to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Ranked by highest average ranking (= lowest number).
- In case of a tie between two movies, head-to-head determines the winner (how many people thought A>B and how many thought B>A).
- In case there's still a tie after the previous rule or there is a tie between three movies, most #1-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? Fewest #3-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? The match will have a 3 day extension.
- The best two #2-movies (based on average ranking) proceed to the 2nd round as well.
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works
We start with 18 movies selected by 18 managers. In the first round the movies are divided into 6 groups of 3. From each group the countries that end up at #1 proceed to the next round. The two best #2's proceed as well. In the 2nd round the 8 remaining managers will be divided into 8 matches of 2 and they pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.
Rules for picking movies:
- Less than 1000 checks on iCM in round 1. Quarter finals: … checks. Semi finals: … checks. Final: … checks.
- Maximum runtime 180 min.
- No movies that have previously been selected for the World Cup.
- Not multiple movies by the same director.
- If two managers pick the same movie, the one who picked first gets it.
iCM-list of all movies in this Managers Cup

List of all topics related to the Managers Cup including previous seasons of the World Cup
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#2

Post by 72aicm »

1. Aeg maha
2. Bé omid é didar
3. Môjû
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#3

Post by joachimt »

72aicm is going for the first voter award.
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#4

Post by 72aicm »

joachimt wrote: September 5th, 2021, 2:02 pm 72aicm is going for the first voter award.
What do I win? An automatic place in the quarters? :D
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#5

Post by pitchorneirda »

Going for the second voter award then...

1. Bé omid é didar
2. Aeg maha
3. Môjû

Liked neither of them but I'm a fan of other works by Rasoulof so I'll give him the edge
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#6

Post by Angel Glez »

Three I had already seen before:

1. Bé omid é didar
2. Môjû
3. Aeg maha
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#7

Post by russa03 »

1. Aeg maha
2. Môjû
3. Bé omid é didar
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#8

Post by beavis »

1. Môjû - 7,5
2. Bé omid é didar - 7
3. Aeg maha - ?

Difficult to rate round this!

Moju is far from the best Masumura has to offer, but I did not dislike it; and I love Masumura.

Goodbye is not a movie with many faults and I guess one could appreciate both the difficult working conditions for everyone involved in this clandestine production and what they are trying to say... but I found the style too heavy handed / on the nose for my taste. Maybe it was only the claustrofobic feelings of all the restrictions that the director wanted to make accesible to the viewer, but it felt more to me like I was tought a lesson (in Dutch there is a saying that translates into something like the director was "waving his finger at me"... not sure if the meaning of that translates...)... I don't like movies like that so much.

The animated short... sure is fun... and I appreaciate all the work needed to make something like it... but is it more special than either an avarage feature from a director I love or a feature I did not like much but could not fault for much and still has some special things going for it...?? no, I don't think so. All the crazy transformations where not thát crazy for me (similar transformations are to be found in the very first animated movie ever made) and besides being entertained for a few minutes there was zero impact for me, nothing to really evaluate or think about (and I am not sure if that would be even the purpose of a work like this anyway... so I can't either fault or praise it for that). So I am confident that it is in third place for me here, but for what the short sets out to do and then does a numerical rating would not be comparable to the other two ratings... so I'll abstain from giving it to avoid needlessly confusing the matter...
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#9

Post by shugs »

1. Time Out (Priit Pärn, 1985, 🇪🇪) - 6/10
2. Goodbye (Mohammad Rasoulof, 2011, 🇮🇷) - 5/10
3. Blind Beast (Yasuzô Masumura, 1969, 🇯🇵) - 3/10

This was a rough group for me.

Goodbye felt like a standard misery porn movie. Growing up and living in a shithole country kind of leaves you desensitized to this kind of movies.
Blind Beast didn't work for me, at all. This LB reviews sums it better than I could https://letterboxd.com/joe_hughey/film/blind-beast/

So my top vote goes to Time Out which, while rough around the edges, still had some amount of fun in it.
Last edited by shugs on September 8th, 2021, 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#10

Post by Mario Gaborović »

1. Môjû
2. Aeg maha
3. Bé omid é didar
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#11

Post by Mario Gaborović »

shugs wrote: September 7th, 2021, 9:40 pm 1. Time Out (Priit Pärn, 1985, USSR) - 6/10
2. Goodbye (Mohammad Rasoulof, 2011, 🇮🇷) - 5/10
3. Blind Beast (Yasuzô Masumura, 1969, 🇯🇵) - 3/10

This was a rough group for me.

Goodbye felt like a standard misery porn movie. Growing up and living in a shithole country kind of leaves you desensitized to this kind of movies.
Blind Beast didn't work for me, at all. This LB reviews sums it better than I could https://letterboxd.com/joe_hughey/film/blind-beast/

So my top vote goes to Time Out which, while rough around the edges, still had some amount of fun in it.
Estonian flag, shugs.
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#12

Post by shugs »

Mario Gaborović wrote: September 8th, 2021, 1:34 pm Estonian flag, shugs.
Fixed.
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#13

Post by Onderhond »

Again three films that didn't really do it for me. Kudos to OldAle1 for finding a Middle-Eastern drama that looked elevated. Môjû could've been a film that I'd liked better, but somehow I don't think the execution was entirely there. It reminded me of a lesser Teruo Ishii film. Aeg Maha, well ... let's say ICM(f) thought me that I'm really not that big of an animation fan after all.

1. 2.5* - Bé Omid é Didar
Spoiler
Iranian drama that has quite a history, mostly due to the imprisonment of its directors. My track history with Middle-Eastern dramas isn't exactly great, Goodbye didn't do quite enough to change my mind, but there are some definite positives here. If only the drama itself had worked for me, I probably would've been able to give this a much higher rating. Noura is a young woman whose attorney's license has been revoked by the Iranian government. Her husband, a political writer, is also on the run from the law. Noura is fed up with the situation, and she tries to apply for a visa. Her pregnancy poses quite a problem, so she considers ending it just to escape the country. I quite liked the stark cinematography, the color palette in particular was cold but beautiful. The framing too deserves a mention. The glacial pace, repetitive scenes and restrained acting make this a difficult drama to crack though. I didn't really care enough for Noura's trials and tribulations, but it's certainly a lot better than some other prominent Middle-Eastern drama's I've seen so far.
2. 2.0* - Môjû
Spoiler
A film that could've been directed by Teruo Ishii (he made the sequel) and feels like a spiritual predecessor to the work of Takashi Ishii. If that doesn't ring a bell, it means you'll be watching the darker and kinkier side of Japanese cinema. Sadly, Masumura didn't fully deliver, especially not in the first half. Aki is a nude model who did some work for an exposition. On the day of the opening, a blind man comes along and touches Aki's statue. She feels a little uncomfortable, but forgets about the incident. When she orders a masseur a couple of days later, the same blind man shows up on her doorstep. The first 45 minutes of Blind Beast are pretty tough. Performances are very mediocre, and the artsy decors look a little cheap. Once it reaches the halfway point the film gets a bit darker and freakier, though it can't quite compete with the films of Ishii. At least the second half has some appeal. Not quite the classic I was hoping for, but it wasn't all bad either.
3. 1.0* - Aeg Maha
Spoiler
Before I joined ICM, I considered myself a pretty big fan of animation. Nowadays, I'm not so sure anymore. When going through the official shorts I've come across so many animated film that are so eye-poppingly ugly and blunt when it comes to the animation itself, that the reputation of the entire medium has gotten a blow. Aeg Maha is one of those films where I just don't see the appeal at all. The animation is very crude, the art style is hideous, the absurdist ideas feel very random and plain. In a way, it reminded me a little of Cat Soup, but then that's what I consider to be a proper version of what a film like this should be. Also, that soundtrack, hnnnghhh.
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#14

Post by pitchorneirda »

Onderhond wrote: September 8th, 2021, 10:04 pm Again three films that didn't really do it for me. Kudos to OldAle1 for finding a Middle-Eastern drama that looked elevated. Môjû could've been a film that I'd liked better, but somehow I don't think the execution was entirely there. It reminded me of a lesser Teruo Ishii film. Aeg Maha, well ... let's say ICM(f) thought me that I'm really not that big of an animation fan after all.

1. 2.5* - Bé Omid é Didar
Spoiler
Iranian drama that has quite a history, mostly due to the imprisonment of its directors. My track history with Middle-Eastern dramas isn't exactly great, Goodbye didn't do quite enough to change my mind, but there are some definite positives here. If only the drama itself had worked for me, I probably would've been able to give this a much higher rating. Noura is a young woman whose attorney's license has been revoked by the Iranian government. Her husband, a political writer, is also on the run from the law. Noura is fed up with the situation, and she tries to apply for a visa. Her pregnancy poses quite a problem, so she considers ending it just to escape the country. I quite liked the stark cinematography, the color palette in particular was cold but beautiful. The framing too deserves a mention. The glacial pace, repetitive scenes and restrained acting make this a difficult drama to crack though. I didn't really care enough for Noura's trials and tribulations, but it's certainly a lot better than some other prominent Middle-Eastern drama's I've seen so far.
That's not how I understood the plot
Spoiler
An "agency" found a way to make her flee Iran legally: her being pregnant. She gets pregnant but her foetus has the Down syndrome. As her pregnancy is the only way to escape, she decides to keep the child anyway.
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#15

Post by Onderhond »

pitchorneirda wrote: September 9th, 2021, 6:52 am That's not how I understood the plot
I'm sure your version is the correct one. When the drama doesn't really engage me, but the atmosphere does, I tend to zone out, not really minding the subs anymore. Though it's quite rare for me to be this far off base. Thanks for the rectification!
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#16

Post by sol »

Nothing that I disliked or thought was mediocre this round. :) I liked all of these films, but to varying degrees. Congrats to russa03 for selecting the film that I liked the most out of this lot. I have no idea what on earth was going on plot-wise, but it was wonderfully surreal and dreamlike with nary a boring moment. Also, many thanks to OldAle1 and zzzorf for prodding me to check out a couple of films that I would not have prioritised otherwise. And zzzorf got me another check on the Asian Field Guide list. Only 259 more to go for a Bronze now!

1. Aeg maha / Time Out - https://64.media.tumblr.com/0100a7e0b6c ... 1_400.gifv
2. Bé omid é didar / Goodbye - https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/goodbye/
3. Môjû / Blind Beast - https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/blind-beast/
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#17

Post by mightysparks »

Liked all of these to some extent. Haven't seen Moju in nearly 10 years so a little hard to compare.

1. Bé omid é didar (2011) 6/10
2. Aeg maha (1985) 6/10
3. Môjû (1969) 6/10
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#18

Post by joachimt »

1. Môjû 7+
2. Aeg maha 6
3. Bé omid é didar 6-
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#19

Post by pitchorneirda »

Maybe time to have our first graph? I have no idea who's leading
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#20

Post by zzzorf »

pitchorneirda wrote: September 15th, 2021, 9:47 pm Maybe time to have our first graph? I have no idea who's leading
Do I have to see how much I'm losing by, lol
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#21

Post by joachimt »

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#22

Post by sol »

zzzorf wrote: Yesterday, 4:48 am
pitchorneirda wrote: September 15th, 2021, 9:47 pm Maybe time to have our first graph? I have no idea who's leading
Do I have to see how much I'm losing by, lol
I don't know if it is any consolation to know, but I liked your pick more than two of the Match 1A films. Competition was tougher for me this round. :pinch:
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#23

Post by russa03 »

zzzorf wrote: Yesterday, 4:48 am
pitchorneirda wrote: September 15th, 2021, 9:47 pm Maybe time to have our first graph? I have no idea who's leading
Do I have to see how much I'm losing by, lol
It's a pity Môjû was in this match as it's the third best (of the 16 i've seen) in the round for me.
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#24

Post by filmbantha »

Don't be disheartened Zzzorf, Môjû is my highest rated film out of the first two matches so far and a great pick for the tournament. It's been a while since I have seen it but I don't need a rewatch as its the clear winner in my eyes, even though it came up against two solid contenders.

1. Môjû 7/10
2. Bé omid é didar 6/10
3. Aeg maha 6/10

Thanks to all three managers for another close round with an intriguing mix of films, the second and third place decision was particularly tough.
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#25

Post by joachimt »

In the graph it seems zzzorf hasn't got a chance so far, but one vote from filmbantha already makes a lot of difference so it's getting pretty close.

Image Bé omid é didar: 1.917 (13-11)
Image Aeg maha: 2 (12-12)
Image Môjû: 2.083 (11-13)
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#26

Post by Teproc »

Aeg maha (Priit Pärn, 1985)
Spoiler
I was worried initially that the first bit would just go on for 7 minutes - I mean it's an ok bit where the character is trying to do everything at once, but it gets repetitive pretty fast. Thankfully, we then get into a very fun and wacky dream which really plays around with what animation can offer, playing with the medium to get these jokes and fun use of dream logic. I quite liked the music too. All in all, a fun, playful short.
Môjû (Yasuzo Masumura, 1969)
Spoiler
A very interesting film that starts out as a thriller which felt somewhat reminiscent of Psycho, at least in that the kidnapper has a bit of a Norman Bates vibe to him, except in this instance, instead of Janet Leigh dying, she gets raped and... falls in love with the guy? Yeesh, I thought, there goes any good will I have towards this film and its crazy set design and somewhat interesting musings on what being deprived of a sense can do to your psyche in the worst of cases. And then... it turns out into a In the Realm of the Senses scenario, which I found pretty fascinating. It's really a film of two halves (though I guess the latter part is really just a third of it), but both halves work really well, it's the transition between the two that's the problem, because I don't really buy that this character getting raped magically makes her into who she becomes in the latter part, no matter how traumatic that event might have been. It does get away from the idea that this rape is "succesful" in the sense that what ensues feels more like a traumatic response to the murder. I noted that she had an opportunity to kill her kidnapper at one point and didn't, so I can see her character completely snapping because of the murder as well as the rape. They're both reacting to this event by throwing themselves into this deadly hedonistic spiral, rather than it being the kidnapper reaching his goal, I think.

In any case, it's a film that raises a lot of questions, and in the end I'm leaning on it being interesting and evocative rather than, you know, morally irresponsible. The set is also remarkable, and really enhances the last act, which benefits from the surreal surroundings a lot.
Bé omid é didar (Mohammad Rasoulof, 2011)
Spoiler
My second Rasoulof film, and the second one I just don't connect with at all, after Lerd / A Man of Integrity. I'm still looking forward to There Is No Evil, but I think I'm starting to understand what's missing here. I obviously have a lot of sympathy for Rasoulof, who is trying to express himself in a country that wants to hear none of it, and I get that this limits him in many ways, but I can't help but compare his work to Jafar Panahi's, and I find that Rasoulof lacks Panahi's sense of humour, which leads him to make these ponderous and dreary misery porn dramas that just don't bring much other than "woe is me". Which, fair enough, woe is you indeed (does that even make sense grammatically?) and I sympathize with your plight, but it doesn't make for very engaging filmmaking, as it turns out. The cinematography is drab, the storytelling repetitive and the acting monotonous. The only scenes that elevated my interest a bit where when government agents actually intervened in it, specifically the scene in which her home is searched stands out as an actual moment of cinema, but everything around it is just a big bowl of nothing which holds some interest for the context in which it all takes place, but does very little with it.
1. Môjû - 7/10
2. Aeg maha - 7/10
3. Bé omid é didar - 3/10
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#27

Post by joachimt »

You see.... it's a three way tie now. First tiebreaker doesn't make a difference. Second tiebreaker is a lead for Moju.

Image Aeg maha: 4
Image Môjû: 5
Image Bé omid é didar: 4
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#28

Post by zzzorf »

Maybe I spoke to soon because with my vote I officially take the lead outright.

1. Môjû - 10/10
2. Aeg maha - 7/10
3. Bé omid é didar - 5/10
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