Future challenges

[Melvelet]

No, I meant having a recommendation-based bonus challenge (basically the 1>500<400 challenge that we used to have) as I suggested a couple of posts above

[flavo5000]

Okay cool Does anybody have an objection against including 1>500<400 in the <400 checks challenge?

I say have at it. Especially if when people nominate a film, they describe why they like it.

[sol]

Okay cool Does anybody have an objection against including 1>500<400 in the <400 checks challenge?

I say have at it. Especially if when people nominate a film, they describe why they like it.

Doesn't matter. Nobody will watch my top pick anyway.

[flavo5000]

Okay cool Does anybody have an objection against including 1>500<400 in the <400 checks challenge?

I say have at it. Especially if when people nominate a film, they describe why they like it.

Doesn't matter. Nobody will watch my top pick anyway.

The only way to guarantee failure is to never try to begin with.

[peeptoad]

I say have at it. Especially if when people nominate a film, they describe why they like it.

Doesn't matter. Nobody will watch my top pick anyway.

The only way to guarantee failure is to never try to begin with.

That's got Homer Simpson written all over it...

[psychotronicbeatnik]

Doesn't matter. Nobody will watch my top pick anyway.

The only way to guarantee failure is to never try to begin with.

That's got Homer Simpson written all over it...

Or Yogi Berra...

[3eyes]

Is anyone thinking about next year's official challenges yet? With the magazine coming, we should Plan Ahead....

[sol]

Is anyone thinking about next year's official challenges yet? With the magazine coming, we should Plan Ahead....

I've always traditionally done this in September. Will publish a few discussion threads in a couple of weeks (there is some stuff I'd like to try differently) but voting won't be until October and even if I bring the schedule forward, I don't think we'll be able to finalise anything until at least early November.

There are still quite a few months with challenges assigned to for this year. Why not publish that instead in the interim?

[3eyes]

Is anyone thinking about next year's official challenges yet? With the magazine coming, we should Plan Ahead....

I've always traditionally done this in September. Will publish a few discussion threads in a couple of weeks (there is some stuff I'd like to try differently) but voting won't be until October and even if I bring the schedule forward, I don't think we'll be able to finalise anything until at least early November.

There are still quite a few months with challenges assigned to for this year. Why not publish that instead in the interim?

Good, Sol. Thanks. We seem to be planning to start the zine in Oct - so that gives horror & noir for the first 2 issues, and of course Christmas stuff and whatever else for Dec.

[sol]

Less than one week away from September; who wants to host next month's Challenges?

- Russian / USSR

- Silent Era

- Animation

It would be easier for me if I took September and October off from hosting since I'll be dealing with trying to set up the 2021 challenge schedule and managing all of the heated discussion that comes with that. If I did need to step in for September:

- Silent Era - I could host at pinch with no fun stats or pie charts and simple leaderboard updates

- Animation - If I end up hosting this one, I will be excluding all TV

- Russia/USSR - Again, could host with no stats/charts, but I wouldn't have the spare time to double check eligibility (not ideal)

Tentative Schedule for 2021 Challenges

Saturday Sep 5 -- release challenge ideas thread and one or two other threads as I want feedback to altering the voting process this year

Saturday Sep 19 -- preliminary polls for challenge ideas

Saturday Sep 26 to Sunday October 11 -- voting period (and maybe less days than that)

[frbrown]

- Animation - If I end up hosting this one, I will be excluding all TV

No, no, nooooo!

[sol]

- Animation - If I end up hosting this one, I will be excluding all TV

No, no, nooooo!

Do you really want the winner of the Animation Challenge to be the one person who watches all 24 seasons of South Park?

But you're welcome to volunteer to host if you want to make sure that the winner is whoever watches the most Simpsons, Family Guy or South Park eps.

[sol]

Oh, and for what it's worth, I believe we excluded TV the last couple of times the Comedy Challenge was run... so there's a precedent for doing so.

[mjf314]

I vote for allowing TV in the animation challenge.

[flavo5000]

I vote for allowing TV in the animation challenge.

Ditto. I've never really seen TV abused on this one in this past.

[flavo5000]

I vote for allowing TV in the animation challenge.

Ditto. I've never really seen TV abused on this one in this past.

Or as a compromise, maybe restrict it to no more than one season of a TV series (and hopefully there won't be any shenanigans about what constitutes a season... "You mean all 700+ episodes of One Piece aren't just one long season?")

[frbrown]

- Animation - If I end up hosting this one, I will be excluding all TV

No, no, nooooo!

Do you really want the winner of the Animation Challenge to be the one person who watches all 24 seasons of South Park?

How else can we keep up with flavo and blueboy

More seriously, I'm less worried about who wins the challenge, and how, and more interested in myself and others watching (and occasionally discussing) a large mix of animation.


Fun fact: with 307 episodes, and with 3 episodes needed for a point, complete South Park would be worth "only" 102 points, which is often not enough to win a challenge.

[sol]

I vote for allowing TV in the animation challenge.

Ditto. I've never really seen TV abused on this one in this past.

Or as a compromise, maybe restrict it to no more than one season of a TV series

I guess that would be acceptable.

I know some TV series are Official Checks, but I just generally don't see the point of including TV in most challenges.

I mean, with some of the country/region challenges it makes some sense because it might be hard to see a film from every Latin American country (for example) without hitting a bit of TV, but for a big genre/style like Animation, there really isn't a shortage of stuff out there to dip into, and given that TV episodes are weighted differently to feature films, somebody who spends their whole time watching TV ultimately amasses far more points that someone who uses the exact same amount of time to invest in movies.

We should maybe address this issue in December again before we begin the 2021 Challenge Series. If we want TV to be a regular part of each and every challenge it doesn't make sense to weight them the same as one hour of shorts (maybe the one hour of shorts should be increased?). Anyway, something to discuss in December, or maybe late November depending when we get the 2021 schedule finalised.

[sol]

I'm less worried about who wins the challenge, and how, and more interested in myself and others watching (and occasionally discussing) a large mix of animation.

In that case, the 1 entire season = 1 point rule should be acceptable to you? I try to go with that as often as possible.

[mjf314]

Or as a compromise, maybe restrict it to no more than one season of a TV series

Challenges are about exploration, and trying something new. Or maybe watching something popular or acclaimed that I haven't seen yet.

I've seen over 400 animated movies, and 50 something series. So if I want to explore, it makes more sense to watch TV.

[peeptoad]

I am in favor of TV being included in animation, but possibly the running time for TV series that delivers 1 point to the viewer could be lengthened to 2 hours? (up from 1 hour in 2018) or, alternatively, 4 shorter episodes (20-30min) of a series equals 1 point, for the 45-60 min eps, then 2 eps equals 1 point. I mean really I could watch Bugs Bunny all month and win and that's not entirely better than watching 50 South Parks eps...

If that's acceptable let me know and I can host, if no one else wants to. That's only my preference though, and I am very busy with other things right now (prob won't even partake heavily in challenges next month), so if someone else wants to host then go for it! I'll abide by whatever rules are established...

[sol]

possibly the running time for TV series that delivers 1 point to the viewer could be lengthened to 2 hours? (up from 1 hour in 2018) or, alternatively, 4 shorter episodes (20-30min) of a series equals 1 point, for the 45-60 min eps, then 2 eps equals 1 point. I mean really I could watch Bugs Bunny all month and win and that's not entirely better than watching 50 South Parks eps...

If that's acceptable let me know and I can host

I guess that's acceptable. It certainly makes more sense than the "let's treat TV episodes like short films" rule that has be beating maxwelldeux in the 1970s Challenge despite spending less time than he has spent this month watching stuff from the 1970s.

Okay, let's put you as host for the moment. Unless somebody with a harsher stance on TV volunteers.

[mjf314]

I am in favor of TV being included in animation, but possibly the running time for TV series that delivers 1 point to the viewer could be lengthened to 2 hours? (up from 1 hour in 2018) or, alternatively, 4 shorter episodes (20-30min) of a series equals 1 point, for the 45-60 min eps, then 2 eps equals 1 point. I mean really I could watch Bugs Bunny all month and win and that's not entirely better than watching 50 South Parks eps...

On the BFI animation list, the median runtime is 87.5 minutes. On OFCS it's 84 minutes.

I think 88 minutes per entry would be fair. A typical episode is 22-24 minutes, so 4 episodes per entry.

[peeptoad]

I am in favor of TV being included in animation, but possibly the running time for TV series that delivers 1 point to the viewer could be lengthened to 2 hours? (up from 1 hour in 2018) or, alternatively, 4 shorter episodes (20-30min) of a series equals 1 point, for the 45-60 min eps, then 2 eps equals 1 point. I mean really I could watch Bugs Bunny all month and win and that's not entirely better than watching 50 South Parks eps...

On the BFI animation list, the median runtime is 87.5 minutes. On OFCS it's 84 minutes.

I think 88 minutes per entry would be fair. A typical episode is 22-24 minutes, so 4 episodes per entry.

That's kind of what I was thinking (~4 eps for the shorter running times = 1pt.). I'd prefer not to have to add up minutes so if we could agree on anything shorter than a given running time would fall under that.
Any opinion on longer episodes? I would be inclined to double the time that's typically used for film (40+ minutes), so if a series had eps at 40 minutes or longer than watching 2 would be required for 1 point. Obviously this is only for series (as opposed to TV film, miniseries, etc. where you'd have to watch the entire thing to get a point).

possibly the running time for TV series that delivers 1 point to the viewer could be lengthened to 2 hours? (up from 1 hour in 2018) or, alternatively, 4 shorter episodes (20-30min) of a series equals 1 point, for the 45-60 min eps, then 2 eps equals 1 point. I mean really I could watch Bugs Bunny all month and win and that's not entirely better than watching 50 South Parks eps...

If that's acceptable let me know and I can host

I guess that's acceptable. It certainly makes more sense than the "let's treat TV episodes like short films" rule that has be beating maxwelldeux in the 1970s Challenge despite spending less time than he has spent this month watching stuff from the 1970s.

Okay, let's put you as host for the moment. Unless somebody with a harsher stance on TV volunteers.

If someone harsher (or someone with more free time on their hands) comes along by all means give it to them.... I'm not married to this by any means, though I also don't mind hosting if other people similarly are very busy.

[mjf314]

That's kind of what I was thinking (~4 eps for the shorter running times = 1pt.). I'd prefer not to have to add up minutes so if we could agree on anything shorter than a given running time would fall under that.

What if someone watches Chii's Sweet Home? (it's 3 minutes per episode)

[peeptoad]

That's kind of what I was thinking (~4 eps for the shorter running times = 1pt.). I'd prefer not to have to add up minutes so if we could agree on anything shorter than a given running time would fall under that.

What if someone watches Chii's Sweet Home? (it's 3 minutes per episode)

I'm inclined to use 120 minutes for the total on TV eps, which I know is longer than required for film, but maybe that's where the harshness sets in.
Do you like Chii enough to watch 40 episodes?
If someone has a better idea, then by all means speak up. I'd rather do what the masses want or can accept than have to field disputes all month long and shove rules down peoples' throats...

[mjf314]

I did watch all 104 episodes Chii's Sweet Home. I thought it was ok, but I don't have any desire to watch the sequel (the sequel is 104 episodes too).

If I watch series for this challenge, it'll be normal ~24 minute episodes.

I think 120 is too much. I'd prefer 88 (or 90 if you prefer round numbers).

[hurluberlu]

I'm inclined to use 120 minutes for the total on TV eps,

Agree

[peeptoad]

This is one reason why I'd prefer to go with 120 min vs. 90-

3547 tv shorts 20-30min
1221 tv shorts 31-40min
136 tv shorts 41-60min
165 tv animation 60-120min
(from IMDB filters for animated TV series).

The vast majority of the animated tv series eps out there are under 40 minutes. Maybe it's the sadist in me, but i just would prefer people have to "work" a little harder when going for the lowest hanging fruit on the tree.

Like I said though ill go with majority rules on this if everyone other hurluberlu and myself disagree strongly.

[mjf314]

The vast majority of the animated tv series eps out there are under 40 minutes. Maybe it's the sadist in me, but i just would prefer people have to "work" a little harder when going for the lowest hanging fruit on the tree.

Why can't we let everyone "work" equally hard? If movie watchers get 1 entry per 90 minutes (on average), then TV watchers should get 1 entry per 90 minutes.

I don't know what you mean by lowest hanging fruit.

[peeptoad]

The vast majority of the animated tv series eps out there are under 40 minutes. Maybe it's the sadist in me, but i just would prefer people have to "work" a little harder when going for the lowest hanging fruit on the tree.

Why can't we let everyone "work" equally hard? If movie watchers get 1 entry per 90 minutes (on average), then TV watchers should get 1 entry per 90 minutes.

I don't know what you mean by lowest hanging fruit.

Re bolded: because we're a film board not a TV board, but i think this has been discussed before.

Low hanging fruit means the easiest to find and procure with minimal effort. If sol is host he'd put barbed wire and land mines around the tree.
Again, if like 10 people come in here and disagree then I'll cave on that rule. And then sol will get his roll of barbed wire from the storage shed.

[jal90]

I would even exclude TV series at all if it was me, but it's probably just my obsession to not mix different formats all in the same blender, I'm even hesitant to listing short and feature films together.

But if we are going to do so, why not seasons or cours (AKA packs of 10-14 episodes in anime that air continuously in a weekly schedule) instead of a specific runtime? I feel like rather than runtime we should prioritize that they have a similar standalone nature than a movie.

[frbrown]

I'm willing to host the Animation challenge, and I would use 40/60 rule for TV.

I wouldn't provide any stats, and I can't think of an idea for a bonus challenge (If anyone has suggestions for an easy-to-keep-track-of bonus challenge...)

Just so you know, I have some series lined up to watch, so the above rule would help my own score

[3eyes]

I'm willing to host the Animation challenge, and I would use 40/60 rule for TV.

I wouldn't provide any stats, and I can't think of an idea for a bonus challenge (If anyone has suggestions for an easy-to-keep-track-of bonus challenge...)

Just so you know, I have some series lined up to watch, so the above rule would help my own score

Animation from odd countries other than the usual suspects? (I found a neat Uruguayan one.)

[mjf314]

Just so you know, I have some series lined up to watch, so the above rule would help my own score

Which series do you have lined up to watch?

[frbrown]

I'm willing to host the Animation challenge, and I would use 40/60 rule for TV.

I wouldn't provide any stats, and I can't think of an idea for a bonus challenge (If anyone has suggestions for an easy-to-keep-track-of bonus challenge...)

Just so you know, I have some series lined up to watch, so the above rule would help my own score

Animation from odd countries other than the usual suspects? (I found a neat Uruguayan one.)

For the bonus challenge? Yeah, that could work. However, those who wanted to participate in the bonus challenge would need to report the countries themselves, I wouldn't be able to look up that info for every film.

How should the scoring work? Number of watches, or number of countries or...? Would features and shorts (and episodes!) count the same?

Besides USA and Japan, are there any other countries that should be excluded as "usual suspects"?

[zzzorf]

I'm willing to host the Animation challenge, and I would use 40/60 rule for TV.

I wouldn't provide any stats, and I can't think of an idea for a bonus challenge (If anyone has suggestions for an easy-to-keep-track-of bonus challenge...)

Just so you know, I have some series lined up to watch, so the above rule would help my own score

Animation from odd countries other than the usual suspects? (I found a neat Uruguayan one.)

For the bonus challenge? Yeah, that could work. However, those who wanted to participate in the bonus challenge would need to report the countries themselves, I wouldn't be able to look up that info for every film.

How should the scoring work? Number of watches, or number of countries or...? Would features and shorts (and episodes!) count the same?

Besides USA and Japan, are there any other countries that should be excluded as "usual suspects"?

I would score it as an Around the World challenge. Scoring points for each country a movie is seen from. In this case you would still score a point for US and Japan but it would only be one the same as other countries

[jal90]

Besides USA and Japan, are there any other countries that should be excluded as "usual suspects"?

France, definitely. But I agree with the Around the World challenge idea.

[frbrown]

Just so you know, I have some series lined up to watch, so the above rule would help my own score

Which series do you have lined up to watch?

Quite a few, I don't think I'll manage to watch it all in a month

American:
Blackstar (13 episodes)
Flash Gordon, season 1 (16 episodes)
G.I. Joe, mini-series 1 (5 episodes)
InHumanoids (13 episodes)
Space Ghost Coast to Coast, season 1 (11 episodes, each around 10mins. long, plus Xmas special over 40 mins.)
Ren and Stimpy, season 1 (6 episodes)
Thundarr the Barbarian, season 2 (8 episodes)
Visionaries: Knights of the Magical Light (13 episodes)
Duckman, season 3 (20 episodes)
Batman TAS, volume 2 (28 episodes)


American-Japanese:
Mighty Orbots (13 episodes)


Japanese (mostly OVAs, I'm not sure about episode lengths for all of these):
Video Girl Ai (6 episodes)
Please Save My Earth (6 episodes)
Here Is Greenwood (6 episodes)
New Cutie Honey (8 episodes)
Key the Metal Idol (15 episodes, some over an hour long)
Heroic Legend of Arslan (6 episodes, two hour-long ones)
Ranma 1/2 OVAs (12 episodes)
Robot Hunter Casshan (4 episodes)
Casshern Sins (24 episodes)


I'll download more.

[sol]

I'm inclined to use 120 minutes for the total on TV eps,

Agree

Yes, peeptoad - please solidify your claim as host now. Looks like both jal and myself are okay with 120 minutes.

Using the 40/60 rule frankly seems silly to me. TV episodes are not short films, and even mjf is pushing for around 90 (not 60) for a level playing field.