Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
NOTE: Board emails should be working again. Information on forum upgrade and style issues.
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 22 released November 17th * EXCLUSIVE * We Are Mentioned in a Book!!! Interview with Mary Guillermin on Rapture, JG & More)
Polls: Coming of Age (Results), DtC - Ratings (Results), 1933 (May 12th), 1970s (May 29th)
Challenges: Japan, Mystery/Thriller, Western
Film of the Week: La donna del lago, June nominations (May 28th)

2021 Challenges: Leaderboard and Rules Discussion

User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 6842
Joined: December 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#81

Post by Onderhond »

RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote: November 20th, 2020, 6:26 am I'm not saying this because I want to splurge on hours of TV. I just think it makes sense to allow those few users who are interested in TV fare (in a perfectly reasonable manner from what I've seen; the only ''abuse'' I can recall is from the Ch/HK/Tw Challenge a couple of years ago) to work in the TV they are interested in exploring, for whatever challenge it might be.

I don't believe film watchers on here want to abuse the challenge rules.
I'm sorry, that was a little sarcasm I'm afraid :)
User avatar
RogerTheMovieManiac88
Posts: 2012
Joined: February 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Contact:

#82

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

Yeah, I know. I just thought I would take the chance to clarify my position.
That's all, folks!
User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 11431
Joined: February 3rd, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#83

Post by sol »

I would like to thank the contributions of everyone on this thread so far. I am about to release an interim poll.

This poll does not include the 60 minutes of TV = 1 point option. I recognise and appreciate the fact that some participants here want this rule, but the whole idea of adjusting the minutes obtained by watching TV is in order to create a fairer system in which television watching earns similar points to movie watching.

I recognise that this decision may be met with disappointment, but:

1. The poll is just intended as an interim poll to fuel discussion. It is not the be-all-and-end-all.

2. With this thread being active for 5 days, I feel that there has been plenty of time for someone to present a case for 60 minutes of TV = 1 point being a fair system. While there has been a lot of discussion about the minute-threshold, nobody has presented a compelling case to argue that this is fair with acknowledgement to the fact that average film length is 90 minutes and one film = 1 point.
Last edited by sol on November 20th, 2020, 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image
User avatar
cinephage
Donator
Posts: 4302
Joined: November 11th, 2011, 7:00 am
Contact:

#84

Post by cinephage »

Onderhond wrote: November 20th, 2020, 6:05 am 3 votes of TV-favoring and/or short people should equal 1 point whereas 1 vote of a film-favoring person also equals one point. Just to make sure our forum keeps a film focus.
Is there really a major risk of having this forum lose its focus on film ??? Seriously ?
User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 6842
Joined: December 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#85

Post by Onderhond »

cinephage wrote: November 20th, 2020, 9:57 am
Onderhond wrote: November 20th, 2020, 6:05 am 3 votes of TV-favoring and/or short people should equal 1 point whereas 1 vote of a film-favoring person also equals one point. Just to make sure our forum keeps a film focus.
Is there really a major risk of having this forum lose its focus on film ??? Seriously ?
I'll repeat what I said a couple a few posts back:
I'm sorry, that was a little sarcasm I'm afraid :)
User avatar
cinephage
Donator
Posts: 4302
Joined: November 11th, 2011, 7:00 am
Contact:

#86

Post by cinephage »

Onderhond wrote: November 20th, 2020, 11:14 am
cinephage wrote: November 20th, 2020, 9:57 am
Onderhond wrote: November 20th, 2020, 6:05 am 3 votes of TV-favoring and/or short people should equal 1 point whereas 1 vote of a film-favoring person also equals one point. Just to make sure our forum keeps a film focus.
Is there really a major risk of having this forum lose its focus on film ??? Seriously ?
I'll repeat what I said a couple a few posts back:
I'm sorry, that was a little sarcasm I'm afraid :)
I guess I'm losing perspective here... :lol:
User avatar
Lonewolf2003
Donator
Posts: 11366
Joined: December 29th, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#87

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

I read some many people saying they don't do challenge to compete, including myself. I suggest we completely radically change the whole system, that we get rid of the whole competitive aspect of challenges by abolishing the counting. And just turn them into "What kind of [X-topic/country/region/decade/theme] movie, series or short do you watch during this month" threads. We can still do fun Bonus Challenges, f.e. Check of the Deaths list with Horror, to keep a gaming aspect. :D
User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 6842
Joined: December 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#88

Post by Onderhond »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: November 20th, 2020, 4:52 pm I read some many people saying they don't do challenge to compete, including myself. I suggest we completely radically change the whole system, that we get rid of the whole competitive aspect of challenges by abolishing the counting. And just turn them into "What kind of [X-topic/country/region/decade/theme] movie, series or short do you watch during this month" threads. We can still do fun Bonus Challenges, f.e. Check of the Deaths list with Horror, to keep a gaming aspect. :D
I'd honestly support that, but I think some of the hardcore players aren't going to like that (even when a win means nothing more than minimal clout and/or some raised eyebrows).
blocho
Donator
Posts: 4619
Joined: July 20th, 2014, 6:00 am
Contact:

#89

Post by blocho »

I also don't care much about the competitive aspects. I've tried to really emphasize discussion over competition in the recent challenges I've hosted. For Noirvember, I changed the goal from "Watch as many noirs as possible" to "Watch noirs. Discuss them."

But other people really enjoy the competition of challenges. I'm not going to rain on their parade. There's enough room in challenges for everyone, whatever their purpose in participating.
User avatar
albajos
Posts: 6942
Joined: May 24th, 2016, 6:00 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

#90

Post by albajos »

It's in the nature of the word "challenge"

Or else it's just noir month. See a movie, or not, we really don't care'

For these who don't care about points, that's why we have bonus goals. I always try to make goals so people get to experience several different factors of a theme. See movies frm all countries in Nordic, all letters in LGBT etc

I also add the Personal Best column to the leaderboards, so players can chose to compete against their previous best score, and not everyone else
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 13491
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#91

Post by Armoreska »

What about movies about [topic]? Should they count for something?
I don't usually participate but discovered today that country-on-imdb/maybe director is all that's taken into account.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 11431
Joined: February 3rd, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#92

Post by sol »

Armoreska wrote: April 20th, 2021, 11:48 am What about movies about [topic]? Should they count for something?
I don't usually participate but discovered today that country-on-imdb/maybe director is all that's taken into account.
Probably the best place to bring this up will be in the Challenge Rules discussion thread that I will initiate around November this year. Or maybe in September when I open the discussion threads for 2022 Challenge Ideas. I know that we will be discussing the current cycle that we are using to visit every region of the world once every two years and debating whether that continues. That might be a good time to look at discussing the ways that stuff are counted for challenges next year. Seems a bit weird to alter the system that has been used for yonks though partway into this year.

Also, [random topic] Challenges can be the best, so the September Challenge Ideas for 2022 discussion threads would be a great place to put ideas across.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 12364
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#93

Post by St. Gloede »

Armoreska wrote: April 20th, 2021, 11:48 am What about movies about [topic]? Should they count for something?
What do you mean?

Edit: Ah, yes, like a Coming of Age Challenge, etc. Absolutely.
I don't usually participate but discovered today that country-on-imdb/maybe director is all that's taken into account.
You mean for the geo-challenges? Yes, those two, plus where it was shot is the standard criteria for challenges and polls if we need to make a call. I.e. funding/production, talent, location. Usually, the country is enough, but in this era of co-productions, it can get a little difficult. If there is a split here, for instance, it is an entirely German production, but the director is Mongolian and it is shot in Mongolia, there is usually a broader discussion to see if it can still be eligible, and exceptions can be made.
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 13491
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#94

Post by Armoreska »

Well a documentary shot in Syria about Syria with Syrians didn't count, as well as a documentary shot in Yemen about Yemen with...Yemenis? when neither the director is from region nor production country is listed.

I get the idea about November and such but who knows where I'll be by then.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 11431
Joined: February 3rd, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#95

Post by sol »

I don't agree with the logic that Nanook of the North is a Canadian film just because it is entirely shot in Canada with Inuit actors. It's an American outsider's perspective.

But regardless of what our differing stances may be, this is indeed a conversation for November. Not fair to change the rules on everyone when we are almost a third of the way into the challenge series this year. And especially when these are the same rules that we have used since before I even joined the forum.

But yeah, let's discuss this more in November. Hopefully you're still around and interested then.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image
User avatar
flavo5000
Posts: 4511
Joined: July 10th, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Arkansas, USA
Contact:

#96

Post by flavo5000 »

sol wrote: April 29th, 2021, 3:00 pm
But regardless of what our differing stances may be, this is indeed a conversation for November. Not fair to change the rules on everyone when we are almost a third of the way into the challenge series this year. And especially when these are the same rules that we have used since before I even joined the forum.
To be fair, there aren't really strict rules defined about eligibility of a given title. It seems to be fluid based on the challenge and host. Some are more lenient than others.
User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 11431
Joined: February 3rd, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#97

Post by sol »

Yes and no. Some hosts care less about eligibility. Some care more. For those who do, having correct country of production listed is a fairly common norm. It is not unusual for hosts to exclude films from regional challenges that don't have that region listed on IMDb. Armo just hasn't participated in many challenges so he isn't accustomed to it.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image
User avatar
flavo5000
Posts: 4511
Joined: July 10th, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Arkansas, USA
Contact:

#98

Post by flavo5000 »

sol wrote: April 29th, 2021, 3:14 pm Yes and no. Some hosts care less about eligibility. Some care more. For those who do, having correct country of production listed is a fairly common norm. It is not unusual for hosts to exclude films from regional challenges that don't have that region listed on IMDb. Armo just hasn't participated in many challenges so he isn't accustomed to it.
But I've also seen hosts exclude titles despite the country being included. That's what I mean.
User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 11431
Joined: February 3rd, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#99

Post by sol »

flavo5000 wrote: April 29th, 2021, 3:55 pm
sol wrote: April 29th, 2021, 3:14 pm Yes and no. Some hosts care less about eligibility. Some care more. For those who do, having correct country of production listed is a fairly common norm. It is not unusual for hosts to exclude films from regional challenges that don't have that region listed on IMDb. Armo just hasn't participated in many challenges so he isn't accustomed to it.
But I've also seen hosts exclude titles despite the country being included. That's what I mean.
Oh, yes - that's true. Armo should have seen the Canadian Challenge last year. Ferg is really big into Canadian cinema so he has a pretty good idea of what is actually Canadian and what isn't. Lots of stuff excluded by Ferg there -- far more than what I have been excluding.

Unfortunately the Middle East isn't an area of expertise for me, so having a Middle Eastern country listed as a country-of-production as a bare minimum is the easiest way for me to host the challenge while still providing some guidance on eligibility. I've had some really random things listed by users in the past years when I have had no guidelines in place.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 12364
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#100

Post by St. Gloede »

That's what I referred to earlier.

The first standard is having the country listed, but generally a film is only associated with one country (with very few exceptions) so if more than one country is listed we look at setting, director, talent, language, etc. If the country is not listed it is (almost) always excluded.
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 13491
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#101

Post by Armoreska »

I fail to see the purpose of such gatekeeping. If humans make a movie on Mars about Mars with martians, that movie fits the Mars challenge.

Also those outsider movies have more chance to be in English and therefore be actually properly understood, since quite a few people seem to be worried about that.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 12364
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#102

Post by St. Gloede »

That's a misunderstanding of the purpose of the country challenges and how these challenges have been run do far. The country challenges are not set up to explore films about X but by X.

We could of course change that in the future, or for specific challenges (for instance the German challenge is usually the German language challenge rather than focusing on films by Germany alone, and a similar change could be made where the Middle East challenge, for instance, started to be about films both by and about the Middle East) though I would personally be against it as I believe the key strength of the country challenges is to inspire us to explore the cinema of each country, region, language, etc. and especially for a region like the Middle East, where most countries are not explored deeply by cinephile, that small bi-yearly push should not be diminished.
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 13491
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#103

Post by Armoreska »

Well docus are not banned, and they are rarely culture-dependent. Countries don't make movies, unless it's a state order I guess. People make movies.

So in my situation a movie the description of which states "struggle for freedom from the Caliphate, as told by those who endured it" might not count, even though even the director is a Kurd (living in Europe).
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 12364
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#104

Post by St. Gloede »

I think you are looking at this through a very specific philosophical/ideological lens that is not (currently) used in the set-up of these challenges and go against their purpose.

For the purposes of these challenges, at present, countries do actually make films, or rather films come from specific countries, as they are produced/created by their citizens.

When we decide on the next batch of challenges we can discuss if any challenges should be changed to "about" rather than "from/by".
mjf314
Moderator
Posts: 11903
Joined: May 8th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#105

Post by mjf314 »

Armoreska wrote: April 30th, 2021, 5:50 am I fail to see the purpose of such gatekeeping. If humans make a movie on Mars about Mars with martians, that movie fits the Mars challenge.

Also those outsider movies have more chance to be in English and therefore be actually properly understood, since quite a few people seem to be worried about that.
I haven't been following this discussion, so I'm not sure what everyone is talking about. I just want to recommend Aria to anyone who plans to participate in the upcoming Mars challenge (it's set on 24th century terraformed Mars). Hopefully it'll be eligible, even though it was made on Earth.
User avatar
Onderhond
Posts: 6842
Joined: December 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#106

Post by Onderhond »

mjf314 wrote: April 30th, 2021, 8:31 am I haven't been following this discussion, so I'm not sure what everyone is talking about. I just want to recommend Aria to anyone who plans to participate in the upcoming Mars challenge (it's set on 24th century terraformed Mars). Hopefully it'll be eligible, even though it was made on Earth.
If you need some Mars shorts ...
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 13491
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#107

Post by Armoreska »

St. Gloede wrote: April 30th, 2021, 8:23 am I think you are looking at this through a very specific philosophical/ideological lens that is not (currently) used in the set-up of these challenges and go against their purpose.
Yeah I know. Hit me back when you're finally ready to be less rigid.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 12364
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#108

Post by St. Gloede »

There is clearly a miscommunication problem here.

This is not about rigidity but the specific purpose and intent of the challenges.

Current country/region challenges are set up for users to explore films produced by the countries in question (or occasionally made with a certain language). Rigidity would imply that the criteria of how we decide that a film is produced/created by Canada is rigid - but that is not the nature of your complaint/issue.

Rather, you are proposing changing the purpose and intent of the challenge entirely.

As a comparable example for the genre challenges, it is like arguing that the Film Noir challenge should accept all Thrillers and Crime films - which btw is absolutely fine - you can argue the case that the Film Noir challenge should be replaced by the Thrillers and Crime challenge - but having a Film Noir challenge is not rigid. These are different intents and purposes.

This is also decided by everyone, not me or anyone else in particular. If you think that the next Middle East challenge should be Topic oriented instead of focusing on films from the Middle East, that is perfectly fine, and you can argue that case in the planning thread - and similarly, you can argue, if interested, that country/geo challenges should change from "by/from" to "about", i.e. for instance in the German challenge we can include American documentaries and fiction films about the Nazis, etc. I would not support this myself, but others might.
User avatar
hurluberlu
Donator
Posts: 2500
Joined: January 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Contact:

#109

Post by hurluberlu »

Yeah Armoreska, bring your arguments to the next discussion thread on Challenges rules this Sept.-Oct. for 2022 and if you convince enough posters, things will change.
#JeSuisCharlie Liberté, Liberté chérie !

Image
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 13491
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#110

Post by Armoreska »

St. Gloede wrote: April 30th, 2021, 10:11 am As a comparable example for the genre challenges, it is like arguing that the Film Noir challenge should accept all Thrillers and Crime films - which btw is absolutely fine - you can argue the case that the Film Noir challenge should be replaced by the Thrillers and Crime challenge - but having a Film Noir challenge is not rigid. These are different intents and purposes.
If the movie is directed by a person from Levant, is in the language regional only to Levant, is filmed entirely in Levant, shows people living in Levant experiencing problems current to Levant, but country on IMDb says China, is it a chinese movie or a movie from Levant that could really fit a challenge w/o overthinking things?

also
I got an idea. Y'all should put a rule that every winner of a challenge must go make subs or timecodes or at least add a useful list before they can contest another.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 12364
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#111

Post by St. Gloede »

Armoreska wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:58 am
St. Gloede wrote: April 30th, 2021, 10:11 am As a comparable example for the genre challenges, it is like arguing that the Film Noir challenge should accept all Thrillers and Crime films - which btw is absolutely fine - you can argue the case that the Film Noir challenge should be replaced by the Thrillers and Crime challenge - but having a Film Noir challenge is not rigid. These are different intents and purposes.
If the movie is directed by a person from Levant, is in the language regional only to Levant, is filmed entirely in Levant, shows people living in Levant experiencing problems current to Levant, but country on IMDb says China, is it a chinese movie or a movie from Levant that could really fit a challenge w/o overthinking things?l0vt
Without overthinking things that is a Chinese movie, as the main criteria is the IMDB country listing, but the example you list would essentially always be allowed, as it would be clear IMDB either made a mistake or that it would be reasonable to consider it a domestic production. (Edit: If the criteria requires the country to be listed, simply issue a correction on IMDb)

I am confused by this reply though, as it has nothing to do with your previous argument to change the purpose of the challenges. What is the connection or are you changing the topic?
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 13491
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#112

Post by Armoreska »

St. Gloede wrote: May 1st, 2021, 1:49 pm
Armoreska wrote: May 1st, 2021, 11:58 am
St. Gloede wrote: April 30th, 2021, 10:11 am As a comparable example for the genre challenges, it is like arguing that the Film Noir challenge should accept all Thrillers and Crime films - which btw is absolutely fine - you can argue the case that the Film Noir challenge should be replaced by the Thrillers and Crime challenge - but having a Film Noir challenge is not rigid. These are different intents and purposes.
If the movie is directed by a person from Levant, is in the language regional only to Levant, is filmed entirely in Levant, shows people living in Levant experiencing problems current to Levant, but country on IMDb says China, is it a chinese movie or a movie from Levant that could really fit a challenge w/o overthinking things?l0vt
Without overthinking things that is a Chinese movie, as the main criteria is the IMDB country listing, but the example you list would essentially always be allowed, as it would be clear IMDB either made a mistake or that it would be reasonable to consider it a domestic production. (Edit: If the criteria requires the country to be listed, simply issue a correction on IMDb)

I am confused by this reply though, as it has nothing to do with your previous argument to change the purpose of the challenges. What is the connection or are you changing the topic?
If the movie is sponsored from China and edited in China then that's considered as China by IMDb if I understand the production country correctly.

Not sure how it has nothing to do, as being less anal retentive about allowed movies for no reason whatsoever would solve the issue.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 12364
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#113

Post by St. Gloede »

Armoreska wrote: May 1st, 2021, 4:15 pm If the movie is sponsored from China and edited in China then that's considered as China by IMDb if I understand the production country correctly.

Not sure how it has nothing to do, as being less anal retentive about allowed movies for no reason whatsoever would solve the issue.
You originally argued that films not from the country in question should be included as long as they were about the country. This question on the other hand is regarding what films should be considered to be from a country. That's an entirely different debate, i.e. "Should we change the entire intent of the challenges" vs. "Should the criteria be loosened".

Generally speaking, the criteria is extremely lax, and IMDb almost always lists a long set of countries as associated with the film. I'm not sure of the exact IMDb criteria, generally speaking it looks at funding and production, but if it is truly a Chinese film, i.e. all funding comes from China and the production company is Chinese then it is technically Chinese. This seems like an extreme anomaly, however, and in such cases, it should (IMO) be decided by the host.

However, there have been previous host decisions, such as runtimes, that have been standardised. You can argue that we should standardise country listings when the planning stage come (though that may not go the way you want).
User avatar
Lonewolf2003
Donator
Posts: 11366
Joined: December 29th, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#114

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

St. Gloede wrote: May 1st, 2021, 4:32 pm
Armoreska wrote: May 1st, 2021, 4:15 pm If the movie is sponsored from China and edited in China then that's considered as China by IMDb if I understand the production country correctly.

Not sure how it has nothing to do, as being less anal retentive about allowed movies for no reason whatsoever would solve the issue.
You originally argued that films not from the country in question should be included as long as they were about the country. This question on the other hand is regarding what films should be considered to be from a country. That's an entirely different debate, i.e. "Should we change the entire intent of the challenges" vs. "Should the criteria be loosened".

Generally speaking, the criteria is extremely lax, and IMDb almost always lists a long set of countries as associated with the film. I'm not sure of the exact IMDb criteria, generally speaking it looks at funding and production, but if it is truly a Chinese film, i.e. all funding comes from China and the production company is Chinese then it is technically Chinese. This seems like an extreme anomaly, however, and in such cases, it should (IMO) be decided by the host.

However, there have been previous host decisions, such as runtimes, that have been standardised. You can argue that we should standardise country listings when the planning stage come (though that may not go the way you want).
I think that pretty much sums it up from what I get from this discussion. Some "about country X" movies clearly aren't from country X, because they were produced in country Y made by people from country Y with a country Y perspective on country Y. But there can be movies about country X that are made (mostly) by people from country X, but that from some political or other reason isn't and can't be financed in country X and therefor isn't listed as being produced in country X on IMDb. In those cases, if it were up to me I would count it.
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 12364
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#115

Post by St. Gloede »

I would too.
Post Reply