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Noirvember Challenge (Official, November 2020)

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Which of the following Rogues are your favorite (based solely on their acting in films noir)?

Dana Andrews
2
3%
Humphrey Bogart
9
12%
Richard Conte
2
3%
Brian Donlevy
0
No votes
Dan Duryea
6
8%
Glenn Ford
0
No votes
Gloria Grahame
8
10%
Van Heflin
0
No votes
Alan Ladd
1
1%
Veronica Lake
3
4%
Burt Lancaster
1
1%
Ida Lupino
7
9%
Fred MacMurray
4
5%
Robert Mitchum
9
12%
Dick Powell
2
3%
Edward G. Robinson
4
5%
Robert Ryan
8
10%
Lizabeth Scott
4
5%
Barbara Stanwyck
8
10%
Claire Trevor
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 78

blocho
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Noirvember Challenge (Official, November 2020)

#1

Post by blocho » October 30th, 2020, 12:31 am

Noirvember Challenge

Image
Image

Welcome to Noirvember -- an alluring but deadly month when the surface splendor of modern life erodes until you can see the moral decadence lying beneath.


Goal:
Watch noirs. Discuss them.


Rules:
- I leave eligibility up to the discretion of participants. I ask only for good-faith submissions and the understanding that not all crime movies or all movies with chiaroscuro lighting are noirs.
- Challenge runs November 1, 2020 - November 30, 2020.
- A feature film (at least 40 minutes) counts as one point.
- A total of 90 minutes of short films, TV episodes, or miniseries episodes counts as one point.
- Films must be watched on single speed (not sped-up), one at a time (no two screens at once), and in their entirety in order to be included.
- Not a rule but a request: When you post what you have watched, please include your reaction or at least a rating so that other people can learn about movies they might not know about.


Stats & Formatting:
- Title (Year) is the preferred format.
- Don't edit posts to include new movies you've watched. Always make new posts.


Previous Editions:
2011 - Led by ormazd with 115 points.
2013 - Led by WalterNeff with 109 points.
2014 - Led by frbrown with 84 points.
2015 - Led by PeacefulAnarchy with 111 points.
2016 - Led by flavo5000 with 96 points.
2017 - Led by WalterNeff with 160 points.
2018 - Led by Simba63 with 122 points.
2019 - Led by flavo5000 with 147 points.


Official Lists:
IMDb Top 50 Film-Noir
TSPDT 100 Essential Noir Films
TSPDT 1000 Noir Films


Bonus Challenge #1 - Rogues' Gallery
See at least one movie/episode featuring each of the 20 notable noir actors listed below. Once you have seen all 20, you win the challenge. If you see a movie that features more than one, you have to choose which "Rogue" counts towards this bonus challenge. Once you indicate your choice, you can't change it later. Indicate your choice in the same manner as the following notation:
3. Pushover (1954) #FredMacMurray
4. Cry Danger (1951) #DickPowell
RoguesShow
Dana Andrews
Humphrey Bogart
Richard Conte
Brian Donlevy
Dan Duryea
Glenn Ford
Gloria Grahame
Van Heflin
Alan Ladd
Veronica Lake
Burt Lancaster
Ida Lupino
Fred MacMurray
Robert Mitchum
Dick Powell
Edward G. Robinson
Robert Ryan
Lizabeth Scott
Barbara Stanwyck
Claire Trevor


Bonus Challenge #2 - Blocho's Recommendations
See the following movies, all of which are available on youtube:
Pushover -- youtube link
The October Man -- youtube link
Cry Danger -- youtube link
The Long Memory -- youtube link
La Otra -- youtube link (this is in Spanish and the link doesn't have subs, but I'm sure there's a way to find and add subs -- it's also a challenge double)


Bonus Challenge #3 - Best Contributor
The winner of this challenge will be the person who makes the best contribution to this thread beyond listing movies. Good contribution can include screenshots, ratings, reviews, comments, thoughts, discussion, etc. It is an entirely subjective bonus challenge. A winner will be picked at the end of the month by the host.



Participants
RankParticipant# of PointsRogues' GalleryBlocho's Recs
1WalterNeff1319---
2flavo5000121---1
3adwest86Completed!---
4Obgeoff75Completed!1
5frbrown7218---
6AssonFire49131
7DudeLanez46Completed!Completed!
8blueboybob44---1
9jdidaco42------
10weirdboy31Completed!---
11Lu-Chin3018Completed!
12maxwelldeux2710---
13sol26162
14klaus7825------
14ororama256---
1672aicm23------
17RogerTheMovieManiac8822------
17AB537226---
191SO2121
20PUNQ12------
20cinephage1221
22Lonewolf2003117---
23Knaldskalle10------
24VincentPrice9------
25hurluberlu8------
25burneyfan8------
27Daviddoes73---
27Lammetje731
29max-scl53---
29insomnius5------
29blocho52---
32Onderhond4------
32zzzorf41---
34OldAle12------
34Coryn2------
36connordenney1------
36allisoncm1------
36sebby1------
Last edited by blocho on November 27th, 2020, 11:29 pm, edited 20 times in total.

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#2

Post by WalterNeff » October 30th, 2020, 1:07 am

I, of course, am in.

Having completed the Official Lists, I will be selecting from these unofficial lists:
A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of Film Noir https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/a+co ... ignatzkat/
BFI 100 Key Noir Films https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/bfi+ ... ulanarchy/
Another 100 Film Noirs (BFI Screen Guide https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/anot ... ide/timec/
British Film Noir Guide (369 Films 1937-1964) https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/brit ... -1964/apu/
Film Noir Guide - 745 Films of the Classic Era (1940-1959) https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/film ... -1959/apu/
Film Noir. 100 All-Time Favorites. Taschen, 2014 https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/film ... ancleeffr/
FILM NOIR - From Berlin to Sin City (Mark Bould) https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/film ... bould/apu/
"Death on the Cheap - The Lost B Movies of Film Noir" by Arthur Lyons https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/deat ... d.hexapus/
Neo-Noir (from: FILM NOIR, THE ENCYCLOPEDIA) https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/neo- ... ancleeffr/
Japanese Film-Noir https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/japa ... oir/zeppo/
Western Film-Noir https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/west ... kasparius/

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#3

Post by 72aicm » October 30th, 2020, 7:23 am

I’m in. I’ll try to get bronze on the big list. Thanks for hosting Blocho.

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#4

Post by Onderhond » October 30th, 2020, 7:37 am

I'll probably see a couple, since my two worst-performing lists are both Noir lists (IMDb and TSPDT's 100).

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#5

Post by OldAle1 » October 30th, 2020, 3:53 pm

In. Despite my love for this stuff I've never really rocked this challenge - just hasn't worked out. But with no family issues to get in the way this year, only the (very real) possibility of violence in the streets and mass chaos in my pretend-democracy of a country will stop me from beating the 48-54 I've hit every one of the last three years. Unlike the previous years I expect to focus mostly on new(er) noir this year alongside the few Mexican classic-era films that I can find subbed.

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#6

Post by blueboybob » October 30th, 2020, 7:02 pm

This is the challenge I don't want to participate in, but I will. And that makes me sad. Is this addiction?

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#7

Post by Lonewolf2003 » October 31st, 2020, 9:37 pm

blueboybob wrote:
October 30th, 2020, 7:02 pm
This is the challenge I don't want to participate in, but I will. And that makes me sad. Is this addiction?
Yes

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#8

Post by sol » November 1st, 2020, 2:21 am

It starts! First in. :D

1. House of Bamboo (1955) #RobertRyan

Image

Shot on location in vibrant colour and 2.55:1, this noir about an American soldier investigating a criminal syndicate in post-war Tokyo certainly looks great; as a narrative though, it is less effective. The film begins with bland narration, and while this eventually disappears, lead actor Robert Stack is not enticing - and he soon romances a local Japanese woman who quickly falls head-over-heels in love with him despite no chemistry between them.
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#9

Post by sol » November 1st, 2020, 8:15 am

NoirShow
1. House of Bamboo (1955) #RobertRyan

2. The Window (1949)

Image

Bobby Driscoll is excellent in the lead role here and with well-distributed shadows and darkness, the film gets very deep into the paranoid existence he begins to feel, scared of the neighbours knowing what he saw and unable to find anybody to trust. Lots of intense moments (key under the door) throughout too. His parents' constant refusal to listen to him grows a little weary, but only the tonally inconsistent ending really mars the experience.
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#10

Post by sol » November 1st, 2020, 2:06 pm

More Noirs from TSPDTShow
1. House of Bamboo (1955) #RobertRyan
2. The Window (1949)

3. Road House (1948) #IdaLupino

Image

Nothing noir-like happens until the second half here - and then the turns feel rather ridiculous. The film looks sensational throughout though, especially during the fog-heavy climax, and Richard Widmark is excellent, starting off as a little eccentric and then turning downright maniacal. With such an uneventful (if seldom boring) first half, there is not really a lot else worth writing home about here, though we do get to see Ida Lupino bowl and sing.

Weird Trivia Note:

This is the first film that I have seen from 1948 this year. That might not sound too odd out of context, but when you consider that I have seen over 1000 films in 2020, clocking every year from 1919 to 2020 except for 1948, it does seem a bit bizarre. :blink:
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#11

Post by frbrown » November 1st, 2020, 5:16 pm

Time to give sol some company


1. Edge of Doom (1950) #DanaAndrews

Very bitter movie - an appropriate way to start the challenge

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#12

Post by burneyfan » November 1st, 2020, 5:38 pm

I usually wind up watching some noir films over the course of a month, so if I see any in November, I'll post them here.

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#13

Post by 72aicm » November 1st, 2020, 7:30 pm

1. Calling Homicide (1956)
2. Inherent Vice (2014)

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#14

Post by WalterNeff » November 1st, 2020, 11:52 pm

Kicking things off with some Pre-Code Noirs - from the list: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of Film Noir

1. As You Desire Me (1932) Is alcoholic singer Zara really Bruno's amnesiac wife Maria?
2. Blood Money (1933) The corrupt world of a Los Angeles bail bondsman.
3. I Cover the Waterfront (1933) Reporter covers the waterfront and uncovers illegal immigrant smuggling ring.
4. Midnight Mary (1933) Hoodlum's moll finds salvation in the arms of a blue-blood lawyer.
5. The Racketeer (1929 It was beauty killed the beast as racketeer Robert Armstrong falls in love and lets down his guard.
6. The Sphinx (1933) The old one-twin-provides-an-alibi-for-the-murderous-twin routine.

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#15

Post by DudeLanez » November 2nd, 2020, 12:17 am

1. Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) - 7/10
2. Pushover (1954) - 8/10 #FredMacMurray
3. Journey Into Fear (1943) - 6/10
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#16

Post by frbrown » November 2nd, 2020, 4:56 am

2. Marriage of Convenience (1960)

One of the Edgar Wallace Mysteries. I'll have a few more of those this month.

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3. The Sleeping City (1950) #RichardConte

Conte opens the film by informing us it was shot on location in the real Bellevue Hospital. And indeed, the locations are one of the film's strong points, including many shots of the New York skyline in the background. There is a great chase scene near the end that begins underground and moves to the rooftops.

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4. City of Shadows (1955)

Mediocre - until the action-packed climax. Despite the quintessentially noirish title, there are few shadows, and few views of a city. In fact, the climactic shootout I mentioned takes place in snow-covered mountains, and in bright sunlight. Some good stuntwork during the shootout, and also some obvious (is there any other kind?) rear projection.

Made at Republic, and directed by their serials specialist William Witney; I don't know if that might explain the good stuntwork.

Image


SpoilerShow
1. Edge of Doom (1950) #DanaAndrews
2. Marriage of Convenience (1960)
3. The Sleeping City (1950) #RichardConte
4. City of Shadows (1955)

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#17

Post by maxwelldeux » November 2nd, 2020, 5:40 am

1. Fargo (1996)

Started off with this rewatch because a) Wife hadn't seen it, and b) I love it. So yeah. I mean, I assume just about everyone is familiar with it. I just want to say how much I love how Minnesotan it was. So culturally appropriate. Hilarious. Made me so happy. 10/10

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#18

Post by adwest » November 2nd, 2020, 7:46 am

The fear already ate my soul in October so why not keep November dark. I'll spend my time on this challenge.

I actually did adult today as my thoroughly clean kitchen and laundry will attest, and yet my new addiction still got its due. Much like the horror genre, I haven't watched a lot of Noir (my parents actually shut off Fargo after about 15 minutes when we rented it while I was still in high school if that tells you anything). The one thing I do know, thanks to my lover Max, is that the production code is annoying and if my ratings are a little lower than with horror it is probably because of the paternalistic morality police of the 40s and 50s.

1. Scarlet Street (1945) 7/10 #Dan Duryea
I thought the story was interesting and the protagonist was fairly well-developed. Most of the other characters were pretty one-dimensional, even his love interest. But overall I enjoyed the story.

2. Internal Affairs (1990) 4/10
This movie was a case study in toxic masculinity. And the "good" guy was worse than the supposed "bad" guy in this respect. I can't count the number of slaps I've already seen this month and the macho crap was off the charts. Made me want to puke.

3. The Killer is Loose (1956) 6/10
The story was decent. A man's wife is accidentally killed by police and he wants to hurt the cop who did it. But again, as with most revenge stories I keep noticing that the person seeking revenge never takes into account their own culpability and I feel a more true-to-life vengeance story needs to address that. Yes, I know I was wrong, but here's why you were more wrong and that's why I have a right to harm you.

4. Fargo (1996) 8/10
Max loves this movie and I totally understand why. I also enjoyed it but couldn't rate it as highly as Max because it felt unfinished to me. I wanted more. I wanted to understand the psychotic, kind of weird looking tall guy more and I wanted to see what happened when they realized almost a million dollars was missing. There just wasn't enough falling action and wrap-up for me.

5. The Hitch-Hiker (1953) 5/10 #Ida Lupino
I couldn't really get into this one. It was just one long chase with a pretty stereotypical bad guy who, because of the production code, gets his due in the end. I didn't really feel connected to any of the characters and didn't find the scenes or cinematography compelling.

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#19

Post by cinephage » November 2nd, 2020, 10:53 am

01. Hollow Triumph / The Scar, by Steve Sekely (1948) 7,5/10

The script must have been original and surprising at the time. Today, one can foresee it in advance. Still, the direction is solid, and Paul Henreid gives a great performance, which make this film a very enjoyable watch.

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#20

Post by sol » November 2nd, 2020, 11:14 am

More Noirs from TSPDTShow
1. House of Bamboo (1955) #RobertRyan
2. The Window (1949)
3. Road House (1948) #IdaLupino

4. Railroaded! (1947)

Image

This begins well with a hold-up shot in very low lighting and a gun barrel pointed directly at the camera. The police investigation side of the film does not really work though. There is never any doubt that the framed protagonist is innocent and the cops constantly going after him seems attributable to sheer stupidity. A more interesting movie may have toyed with why they refuse to believe that he is innocent - or them needing to get a conviction.
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#21

Post by frbrown » November 2nd, 2020, 2:39 pm

5a. Peter Gunn: Murder on the Midway (1959)
5b. Peter Gunn: Pecos Pete (1959)
5c. Peter Gunn: Scuba (1959)
5d. Peter Gunn: Edie Finds a Corpse (1959)

SpoilerShow
1. Edge of Doom (1950) #DanaAndrews
2. Marriage of Convenience (1960)
3. The Sleeping City (1950) #RichardConte
4. City of Shadows (1955)
5a. Peter Gunn: Murder on the Midway (1959)
5b. Peter Gunn: Pecos Pete (1959)
5c. Peter Gunn: Scuba (1959)
5d. Peter Gunn: Edie Finds a Corpse (1959)

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#22

Post by 72aicm » November 2nd, 2020, 7:41 pm

3. Without Honor (1949)
4. Døden er et kjærtegn (1949) (l)
SpoilerShow
1. Calling Homicide (1956)
2. Inherent Vice (2014)
3. Without Honor (1949)
4. Døden er et kjærtegn (1949) (l)

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#23

Post by blocho » November 2nd, 2020, 8:40 pm

adwest wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 7:46 am
I wanted to see what happened when they realized almost a million dollars was missing.
Thankfully, there's a TV show out there that's happy to explain.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2802850/

Happy to have all of you folks here who are trying to detox from a horror overdose.

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#24

Post by OldAle1 » November 2nd, 2020, 10:30 pm

Most of my choices will be coming from either

COMP - a Comprehensive Encyclopedia of Film Noir, or
NEO - films tagged as "neo noir" on IMDb

Or both.

Day 1 - an old favorite, and a tribute to the original Bond

1. The Seventh Victim (Mark Robson, 1943) (re-watch) COMP

Image

TCM. Wouldn't have planned to start out with this one, or maybe even watch it at all, but it happened to be on Sunday morning and I'd never seen Eddie Muller introduce it, so why not? Also as he mentions, it's closer to horror than most classic-era noir - it involves Satanism - and it probably had been a decade since I last saw. Probably up to four viewings now; this is still quite clearly my favorite Val Lewton production, though I love the whole cycle. It's a strange film to call "great" as it's so imperfect - the editing and narrative in the first third or half of the film in particular are just a bit... askew. Everything's off-kilter, we get introduced to characters who seem like they'll be major players only to see them disappear from the story or get killed, and there's a dreamlike quality to the whole thing that combined with the sense of religious doom - the opening shot is of a stained glass window and there's a John Donne quote to get us prepared - gives it a feeling unlike anything else from the era. One thing I noticed in this viewing is how the film steadily gets darker and darker - the first 10-15 minutes are nearly all in the daytime, well-lit, and more and more shadows keep appearing, with our dark anti-heroine, Jacqueline (Jean Brooks) not appearing at all until the second half of the film - the first part is all wholesome sister Mary, the "light" protagonist (Kim Hunter) looking for her only and finding - and at first disbelieving - that she's mixed up in a sinister world far outside the realm of school and children that Mary knows. Creepy, melancholy, and brilliant despite feeling like it should be just a touch longer and more developed in the early stages.

2. The Frightened City (John Lemont, 1961) COMP

Very average Brit-noir really notable only for it's cast - Herbert Lom as Waldo, an accountant who occasionally deals with shady characters, until he figures out a financial way to bring various mobs together under his own control, and the just-departed Sean Connery in an early co-starring role as Paddy, a young petty catburglar who ends up doing much dirtier work than he bargained for under Waldo when his partner gets injured and he has to go it alone. Some nice noirish lighting from DP Desmond Dickinson, who had worked on plenty of b/w crime and horror films over the previous few decades, and competently enough done, but there's really nothing of interest here that hasn't been seen a million times, apart maybe from the fight in the medievally-appointed and beweaponed room at the finish. Also Connery just never is convincing as a more hardened character - too smiling, too genial to be a guy who cracks heads and smashes up bars (which we don't really see him doing much, but the narrative implies). Eh, just OK overall.

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#25

Post by flavo5000 » November 2nd, 2020, 10:55 pm

Image
1. Among the Living (1941) List: TSPDT Noir #273

Image
2. Ladies in Retirement (1941) List: TSPDT Noir #609

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3. Yao shou du shi a.k.a. Wicked City (1992)

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4. The Sleeping City (1950) TSPDT Noir #260

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5. Man in the Vault (1956) #646 on Previous TSPDT Noir list
Hang on ‘til he dropped deadShow
1. Among the Living (1941) List: TSPDT Noir #273
2. Ladies in Retirement (1941) List: TSPDT Noir #609
3. Yao shou du shi a.k.a. Wicked City (1992)
4. The Sleeping City (1950) TSPDT Noir #260
5. Man in the Vault (1956) #646 on Previous TSPDT Noir list

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#26

Post by Onderhond » November 2nd, 2020, 11:01 pm

Just out of curiosity, because I never really paid much attention to this niche (it's typically old black/white crime films, which aren't really my thing), but can someone tell me how you recognize contemporary noirs/neo-noirs (apart from the neon styling)? Specifically, when does a crime film become a noir?

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#27

Post by DudeLanez » November 3rd, 2020, 12:00 am

4. Force of Evil (1948) - 7/10
5. Sorry, Wrong Number (1948) - 8/10 #BurtLancaster
SpoilerShow
1. Stranger on the Third Floor (1940) - 7/10
2. Pushover (1954) - 8/10 #FredMacMurray
3. Journey Into Fear (1943) - 6/10
Last edited by DudeLanez on November 3rd, 2020, 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#28

Post by maxwelldeux » November 3rd, 2020, 12:24 am

Onderhond wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 11:01 pm
Just out of curiosity, because I never really paid much attention to this niche (it's typically old black/white crime films, which aren't really my thing), but can someone tell me how you recognize contemporary noirs/neo-noirs (apart from the neon styling)? Specifically, when does a crime film become a noir?
I don't have an answer, but I'm quoting you because I also want to know... :whistling:

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#29

Post by blocho » November 3rd, 2020, 12:31 am

maxwelldeux wrote:
November 3rd, 2020, 12:24 am
Onderhond wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 11:01 pm
Just out of curiosity, because I never really paid much attention to this niche (it's typically old black/white crime films, which aren't really my thing), but can someone tell me how you recognize contemporary noirs/neo-noirs (apart from the neon styling)? Specifically, when does a crime film become a noir?
I don't have an answer, but I'm quoting you because I also want to know... :whistling:
It happens only at the exact moment when Dan Duryea gives you this look:
Image

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#30

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » November 3rd, 2020, 12:57 am

Neo noirs are easy because they are convention bound. Chinatown, Bound, Miller’s Crossing, The Last Seduction etc. Even when they break some conventions they stick to enough of them, especially in character archetypes, that it's pretty easy to tell. A lot of the time they're based on old pulp stories or remakes of noir films, and even when they aren't they intentionally tell you "hey I'm a neo noir" with their stylings.

Modern noir is a bit trickier because it runs into that question you ask of when does a crime film become noir. I think the first thing is to realize noirs are about people and place (in a wider sociological sense). Most crime films, especially modern ones, are not. A lot of modern crime films are about action or about the crime itself. For crime film noirs I think the best word to use as a basis is quagmire. Classic Noir films, even the less noirish ones, will be exploring frustrating seedy situations and characters who feel stuck. The crime itself is less important than the characters feeling conflicted/railroaded/frustrated/scared/etc before or after the crime. They run on tension. Actual modern noirs are not very common. The only one that comes to mind right now is Hell or High Water.

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#31

Post by blocho » November 3rd, 2020, 1:15 am

Dang, Peaceful. That's genuinely insightful. Thanks for that explanation.

I also had never heard of a distinction between neo-noir and modern noir before.

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#32

Post by OldAle1 » November 3rd, 2020, 1:30 am

Peaceful's explanation is very good but I have to echo blocho - what's the distinction between "neo" and "modern"?

As for myself, all I would really add is that to my mind, too much emphasis on action tends to kill the noir quality. I know Dirty Harry is often listed as noir, but to me that's a perfect example of going too far both in the action sense, and in the cop-as-hero sense. Cops aren't typically outright villains in classic noir, but they also aren't as in control of the situation as Harry is in those films; even if a noir is about a cop primarily you always get the sense that he's vulnerable to either corruption or death; Harry is invulnerable. And nobody in noir is invulnerable.

I think most of what's in the enormous list (3000+ titles) that Walter provides in his first link fits the noir paradigm to a significant extent; everybody who gets really into it probably has their own definition though and that's fine, just as with horror some of the fun here is to be had in just seeing how much a film really fits or doesn't fit the style/genre/whatever. Or what elements of the style appeal to you most. That list only goes through 2013 though, so for myself I'm relying on the IMDb neo-noir tag for my first few films when I begin my backwards-looking portion of the challenge. IMDb as you might expect is pretty liberal with the tags so you just have to judge for yourself - typically if it's got "action" listed it's not gonna really be noir to me though there are exceptions, and I think that comic noirs are a rarity, a hard fit. But I think when you've seen enough of the generally accepted examples - whether from the classic era or later - you'll know it when you see it.

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#33

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » November 3rd, 2020, 2:03 am

Neo noir is about style. They are films that are explicitly conscious of noir as a genre and are trying to make a new noir film. The examples I gave are rather different from each other, but they're all making repeated stylistic choices using noir tropes, noir characterizations, noir visuals, etc.

Modern noirs are kind of what would happen if no one had ever said "hey these films are noir" and they kept making films like that. Evolving into modern times with underlying currents of noir preoccupations, but their own films first and foremost. Classic noirs are a lot more diverse than their common conception. There aren't many such noirs because the way filmmaking has evolved, and the world has evolved, has made it so that exploring noir themes in noir contexts isn't all that necessary, so the anchor is gone. There are a lot of films that have seeds of what would have been noir, but they go off in completely different directions. The elimination of the hayes code allowed for a lot of things to become explicit in dramas, and for crime films to actually be about crime, and even films that blend them together are doing so in very different ways. Noir isn't the only genre that fractured like this, but, because of how tied noir was to the post war reconstruction period, what held it together was ephemeral. Horror is a good example of another genre that fractured and changed completely from the 40s/50s through the 70s and 80s and into today, but the cohesive webbing of "what is horror" was more distinct, so its descendants are more easily grouped together.

The distinction I'm making seems very natural to me (both The Last Seduction and Hell or High Water era easy enough to compare to noirs, but relating them to each other is much harder, for example), but I don't know how common it is. Some people definitely just call them all neo-noir, but I think that misses that they are very different experiences.

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#34

Post by jdidaco » November 3rd, 2020, 2:58 am

Thank you for hosting, blocho!!!

(Screenshots from 'Minagoroshi no kenjû' & 'Alphabet City'),

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1. Que Dios me perdone (May God Forgive Me, Tito Davison, 1948) 8/10
2. La noche avanza (Night Falls, Roberto Gavaldón, 1952) 8/10
3. The House Across the Lake (Ken Hughes, 1954) 7/10
4. A Prize of Arms (Cliff Owen, 1962) 8/10
5. Minagoroshi no kenjû (Massacre Gun, Yasuharu Hasebe, 1967) 8/10
6. Hakucyu no syugeki (Attack on the Sun, Kiyoshi Nishimura, 1970) 9/10
7. Union City (Marcus Reichert, 1980) 7/10
8. Alphabet City (Amos Poe, 1984) 7/10

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#35

Post by WalterNeff » November 3rd, 2020, 2:59 am

Continuing with some Pre-Code Noirs - from the list: A Comprehensive Encyclopedia of Film Noir

7. The Man with Two Faces (1934) Actor adopts a second persona to rid his sister, and the world, of his snake of a brother-in-law.
8. The Famous Ferguson Case (1932) Small-town newspaper covers big-league murder, horned in by the major press, proving that Fake News has been around for some time.
9. The Doorway to Hell (1930) Crime boss retires from the rackets but they pull him back in. He exits through the doorway to hell
10. Letty Lynton (1932) Socialite wants to marry, but is blackmailed by former lover. Is there only one way out?
11. Night Nurse (1931) Newly minted nurse foils a murder for inheritance scheme.
12. Two Seconds (1932) In the two seconds between electrocution and death, a man relives the experience that brought him to the death house.
Pre Code NoirShow
1. As You Desire Me (1932) Is alcoholic singer Zara really Bruno's amnesiac wife Maria?
2. Blood Money (1933) The corrupt world of a Los Angeles bail bondsman.
3. I Cover the Waterfront (1933) Reporter covers the waterfront and uncovers illegal immigrant smuggling ring.
4. Midnight Mary (1933) Hoodlum's moll finds salvation in the arms of a blue-blood lawyer.
5. The Racketeer (1929 It was beauty killed the beast as racketeer Robert Armstrong falls in love and lets down his guard.
6. The Sphinx (1933) The old one-twin-provides-an-alibi-for-the-murderous-twin routine.

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#36

Post by adwest » November 3rd, 2020, 4:42 am

blocho wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 8:40 pm
adwest wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 7:46 am
I wanted to see what happened when they realized almost a million dollars was missing.
Thankfully, there's a TV show out there that's happy to explain.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2802850/

Happy to have all of you folks here who are trying to detox from a horror overdose.
I forgot about Fargo the show. Does that count for this challenge?

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#37

Post by blocho » November 3rd, 2020, 5:25 am

adwest wrote:
November 3rd, 2020, 4:42 am
blocho wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 8:40 pm
adwest wrote:
November 2nd, 2020, 7:46 am
I wanted to see what happened when they realized almost a million dollars was missing.
Thankfully, there's a TV show out there that's happy to explain.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2802850/

Happy to have all of you folks here who are trying to detox from a horror overdose.
I forgot about Fargo the show. Does that count for this challenge?
See the first rule in the OP.

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#38

Post by weirdboy » November 3rd, 2020, 6:27 am

1. Dark (2017) - Paul Schrader
2. Kuro no tesuto kâ 黒のテストカー AKA Black Test Car (1962) - Yasuzo Masumura


There is no femme fatale in Dark, but there is Nicholas Cage's continually deteriorating mental state that supplies the same sort of impetus to his character and the narrative. I personally liked it, although you can sense that Schrader was doing what he could with the materials at hand--it is a strange tale of creating an official fan edit for his own film, essentially.

Black Test Car is more of a standard noirish story with plenty of backstabbing to go around, but the pacing and tension is great.

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#39

Post by frbrown » November 3rd, 2020, 7:08 am

6. Blackout (1950)

British. A blind man stumbles onto a crime scene. Later, he regains his sight, and decides to do some investigating on his own - and things get really stupid from there on.

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SpoilerShow
1. Edge of Doom (1950) #DanaAndrews
2. Marriage of Convenience (1960)
3. The Sleeping City (1950) #RichardConte
4. City of Shadows (1955)
5a. Peter Gunn: Murder on the Midway (1959)
5b. Peter Gunn: Pecos Pete (1959)
5c. Peter Gunn: Scuba (1959)
5d. Peter Gunn: Edie Finds a Corpse (1959)
6. Blackout (1950)

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#40

Post by Onderhond » November 3rd, 2020, 8:31 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
November 3rd, 2020, 12:57 am
I think the first thing is to realize noirs are about people and place (in a wider sociological sense).
Thanks all for the input, made me at least a little wiser. I think the quote above aptly illustrates why it's hard for me to wrap my head around, these aren't elements that jump out as very distinctive to me, even thinking back at some of the films mentioned here I find it hard to see whether they'd fit that criteria.

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