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2021 Challenges: Setting Up the Schedule

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#81

Post by sol »

So, we hit Page 3 of this thread. At this stage, I would say that:
  • All of the theme/genre options are locked in place. There has been minimal complaining about the theme pairings and I think we have distributed them fairly.
  • The country/regions are unlocked for now. If we can't reach a consensus in a couple of days, I'll jump in with whatever majority decision seems to be, but at this stage, it is still open to debate country/region placement. Please refer to the Challenge Index though before making suggestions. We are trying to avoid pairing countries/regions with themes/genres that they have been paired up with before.
Side note: I'm back at work tomorrow, so I might not be able to attend to this thread as regularly as I would like. Will chime in as often as I can, but there might be some 9 hours gaps where I just can't.

Here's the Schedule as it currently stands:

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress
MonthCountry ChallengeTheme ChallengeTheme Challenge
January Latin America - excl. Ar, Br, Uy & Mx Sci-Fi/Fantasy 1000<400
February Japan Experimental/Avant-Garde Run the Director
March UK/Ireland Directed by Women Waves from Around World
April Middle East - excl. Iran Doubling the Canon Nominees Animation
May Oceania Western Mystery & Thriller
June Italy One Film From Each Year LGBTIQ+
July France Travel the World Run the Actor
August Korean Peninsula <400 Checks Action & Adventure
September Eastern Europe - excl. Russia & Balkans Silent Era Low IMDb Rating
October Benelux Horror One Film From Each iCM List
November Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay Film Noir War movies
December Iran & Central Asia Documentary Unofficial


Current debate: Should we swap Japan and Benelux?
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#82

Post by Melvelet »

If the idea is to switch it with something less prolific, I'd rather switch with Oceania for example.

(also I just realized that the word is 'prolific', not 'profilic'. It always struck me as slightly weird :lol: )
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#83

Post by OldAle1 »

sol wrote: October 11th, 2020, 9:27 am Fine. Let's put in the change. I agree that keeping Japan and Fantasy apart makes sense. :) Sorry, Ale. :(

Updated version:

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress
MonthCountry ChallengeTheme ChallengeTheme Challenge
January Latin America - excl. Ar, Br, Uy & Mx Sci-Fi/Fantasy 1000<400
February Japan Experimental/Avant-Garde Run the Director
March UK/Ireland Directed by Women Waves from Around World
April Middle East - excl. Iran Doubling the Canon Nominees Animation
May Oceania Western Mystery & Thriller
June Italy One Film From Each Year LGBTIQ+
July France Travel the World Run the Actor
August Korean Peninsula <400 Checks Action & Adventure
September Eastern Europe - excl. Russia & Balkans Silent Era Low IMDb Rating
October Benelux Horror One Film From Each iCM List
November Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay Film Noir War movies
December Iran & Central Asia Documentary Unofficial
It's not really a biggie. I'm at least considering dropping out of a lot of challenges (at least, trying to be competitive, which is pointless) next year regardless. Of course I thought I'd do that this year too...

Anyway had I gotten to this earlier I'd have said that pairing Japan with ANY genre would yield loads of doubles - with the exception of western and maybe musical (which isn't scheduled anyway). You can't easily avoid doubles with Japan any more than you can with France so I don't think there's much point in trying too hard. But as you have it certainly it doesn't seem likely that anybody will be getting 50+ doubles between Uruguary/Peru etc and SF/fantasy.
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#84

Post by peeptoad »

How about moving Oceania to February, Japan to August, Korea to May? I agree there would be ample overlap for Japan with almost everything; it might increase samurai views for AA, for example. Not married to this, and otherwise only have a mild preference to move Japan away from Feb, as some others have said.
eta: the schedule generally looks great to me, even as is... nice work! :thumbsup:
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#85

Post by St. Gloede »

Switch Japan with Oceania and I think we're set. (Don't mind the other suggestion either).
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#86

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

peeptoad wrote: October 11th, 2020, 12:48 pm How about moving Oceania to February, Japan to August, Korea to May?
Gets a big +1 from me. Cheers, peeps!
That's all, folks!
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#87

Post by St. Gloede »

(Technically it would have have been good to not put France next to Travel the World, as it was the number 2 option and is placed next to a juggernaut of a country, which may take a lot of participants away - but that section is locked now).
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#88

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

Switch France with one of the regions, maybe? Lat Am, Middle East or Central Asia.
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#89

Post by sol »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:26 pm Switch France with one of the regions, maybe? Lat Am, Middle East or Central Asia.
No. We can swap France with a single country, but a group of countries provide too easy overlap.

And contrary to what Chris has said, it is usually better to have two juggernaut challenges next to each other - otherwise, small challenges tend to get squished to smithereens.
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#90

Post by sol »

RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:02 pm
peeptoad wrote: October 11th, 2020, 12:48 pm How about moving Oceania to February, Japan to August, Korea to May?
Gets a big +1 from me. Cheers, peeps!
If that's what people want, this sounds okay to me. Let's see what others think...
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#91

Post by Onderhond »

Japan in August might be a bummer for me, considering it's holiday seasons and it's one of the few challenges I would actively participate in.
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#92

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

OldAle1 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 12:07 pm
sol wrote: October 11th, 2020, 9:27 am Fine. Let's put in the change. I agree that keeping Japan and Fantasy apart makes sense. :) Sorry, Ale. :(

Updated version:

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress
MonthCountry ChallengeTheme ChallengeTheme Challenge
January Latin America - excl. Ar, Br, Uy & Mx Sci-Fi/Fantasy 1000<400
February Japan Experimental/Avant-Garde Run the Director
March UK/Ireland Directed by Women Waves from Around World
April Middle East - excl. Iran Doubling the Canon Nominees Animation
May Oceania Western Mystery & Thriller
June Italy One Film From Each Year LGBTIQ+
July France Travel the World Run the Actor
August Korean Peninsula <400 Checks Action & Adventure
September Eastern Europe - excl. Russia & Balkans Silent Era Low IMDb Rating
October Benelux Horror One Film From Each iCM List
November Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay Film Noir War movies
December Iran & Central Asia Documentary Unofficial
It's not really a biggie. I'm at least considering dropping out of a lot of challenges (at least, trying to be competitive, which is pointless) next year regardless. Of course I thought I'd do that this year too...

Anyway had I gotten to this earlier I'd have said that pairing Japan with ANY genre would yield loads of doubles - with the exception of western and maybe musical (which isn't scheduled anyway). You can't easily avoid doubles with Japan any more than you can with France so I don't think there's much point in trying too hard. But as you have it certainly it doesn't seem likely that anybody will be getting 50+ doubles between Uruguary/Peru etc and SF/fantasy.
Good point, so maybe therefor pair Japan with one of the non genre challenges. Put it in March, June or July?
If we don’t want any of the other big countries, Italy, France and UK, in February paired with Experimental and RTD, maybe put Benelux there. But what to pair with Horror than, France or Italy?
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#93

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:02 pm
peeptoad wrote: October 11th, 2020, 12:48 pm How about moving Oceania to February, Japan to August, Korea to May?
Gets a big +1 from me. Cheers, peeps!
Gets -1 from me.
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on October 11th, 2020, 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#94

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

sol wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:32 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:26 pm Switch France with one of the regions, maybe? Lat Am, Middle East or Central Asia.
No. We can swap France with a single country, but a group of countries provide too easy overlap.

And contrary to what Chris has said, it is usually better to have two juggernaut challenges next to each other - otherwise, small challenges tend to get squished to smithereens.
And single countries provide only one overlap. These ones provide a fixed and limited overlap of 10-20 films so unlike overlaps that let you win both challenges at once these act as encouragement to sample the region before either focusing on it or moving away. In other words, if you compare it to the overlap with individual countries it's a lot, but if you compare it to the overlap of almost any other pair of challenges it's quite limited.
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#95

Post by sol »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:46 pm
sol wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:32 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:26 pm Switch France with one of the regions, maybe? Lat Am, Middle East or Central Asia.
No. We can swap France with a single country, but a group of countries provide too easy overlap.

And contrary to what Chris has said, it is usually better to have two juggernaut challenges next to each other - otherwise, small challenges tend to get squished to smithereens.
And single countries provide only one overlap. These ones provide a fixed and limited overlap of 10-20 films so unlike overlaps that let you win both challenges at once these act as encouragement to sample the region before either focusing on it or moving away. In other words, if you compare it to the overlap with individual countries it's a lot, but if you compare it to the overlap of almost any other pair of challenges it's quite limited.
Actually... you have a good point there.
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#96

Post by peeptoad »

Let's ditch the idea of moving Japan to August since both Onderhond and LW are against and I don't have strong feelings about that. Swapping Japan and Oceania, and possibly moving France somewhere else, if consensus is not to pair it with TTW, seems the most straightfoward solution...?
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#97

Post by Melvelet »

Onderhond wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:39 pm Japan in August might be a bummer for me, considering it's holiday seasons and it's one of the few challenges I would actively participate in.
And in holiday season you have less time for movies than usual?
Would switching it with Oceania in May be better?
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#98

Post by OldAle1 »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:42 pm
OldAle1 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 12:07 pm
sol wrote: October 11th, 2020, 9:27 am Fine. Let's put in the change. I agree that keeping Japan and Fantasy apart makes sense. :) Sorry, Ale. :(

Updated version:

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress
MonthCountry ChallengeTheme ChallengeTheme Challenge
January Latin America - excl. Ar, Br, Uy & Mx Sci-Fi/Fantasy 1000<400
February Japan Experimental/Avant-Garde Run the Director
March UK/Ireland Directed by Women Waves from Around World
April Middle East - excl. Iran Doubling the Canon Nominees Animation
May Oceania Western Mystery & Thriller
June Italy One Film From Each Year LGBTIQ+
July France Travel the World Run the Actor
August Korean Peninsula <400 Checks Action & Adventure
September Eastern Europe - excl. Russia & Balkans Silent Era Low IMDb Rating
October Benelux Horror One Film From Each iCM List
November Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay Film Noir War movies
December Iran & Central Asia Documentary Unofficial
It's not really a biggie. I'm at least considering dropping out of a lot of challenges (at least, trying to be competitive, which is pointless) next year regardless. Of course I thought I'd do that this year too...

Anyway had I gotten to this earlier I'd have said that pairing Japan with ANY genre would yield loads of doubles - with the exception of western and maybe musical (which isn't scheduled anyway). You can't easily avoid doubles with Japan any more than you can with France so I don't think there's much point in trying too hard. But as you have it certainly it doesn't seem likely that anybody will be getting 50+ doubles between Uruguary/Peru etc and SF/fantasy.
Good point, so maybe therefor pair Japan with one of the non genre challenges. Put it in March, June or July?
If we don’t want any of the other big countries, Italy, France and UK, in February paired with Experimental and RTD, maybe put Benelux there. But what to pair with Horror than, France or Italy?
There's not a lot of horror from the middle east, as I've mentioned elsewhere before. Even Turkey which has by far the largest number of genre films only has 241 films listed as horror on IMDb, and almost all of them are from this century - they're just beginning to put out this stuff. Not much from Iran either though like Turkey they have started to make more recently; don't really know about other Central Asian countries. Everywhere else though has shit-tons of horror.
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#99

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

peeptoad wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:50 pm Let's ditch the idea of moving Japan to August since both Onderhond and LW are against and I don't have strong feelings about that. Swapping Japan and Oceania, and possibly moving France somewhere else, if consensus is not to pair it with TTW, seems the most straightfoward solution...?
Sorry I kind of misread cause St.Gloede made a similar suggestion above Roger quote of your suggestion. Still not a big fan of that switch tho. But I think putting Japan in May would be even worse, cause than we have 3 big challenges that month it seems to me. Than I even rather have it in August. And move Korea to May.
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on October 11th, 2020, 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#100

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

OldAle1 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:57 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:42 pm
OldAle1 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 12:07 pm

It's not really a biggie. I'm at least considering dropping out of a lot of challenges (at least, trying to be competitive, which is pointless) next year regardless. Of course I thought I'd do that this year too...

Anyway had I gotten to this earlier I'd have said that pairing Japan with ANY genre would yield loads of doubles - with the exception of western and maybe musical (which isn't scheduled anyway). You can't easily avoid doubles with Japan any more than you can with France so I don't think there's much point in trying too hard. But as you have it certainly it doesn't seem likely that anybody will be getting 50+ doubles between Uruguary/Peru etc and SF/fantasy.
Good point, so maybe therefor pair Japan with one of the non genre challenges. Put it in March, June or July?
If we don’t want any of the other big countries, Italy, France and UK, in February paired with Experimental and RTD, maybe put Benelux there. But what to pair with Horror than, France or Italy?
There's not a lot of horror from the middle east, as I've mentioned elsewhere before. Even Turkey which has by far the largest number of genre films only has 241 films listed as horror on IMDb, and almost all of them are from this century - they're just beginning to put out this stuff. Not much from Iran either though like Turkey they have started to make more recently; don't really know about other Central Asian countries. Everywhere else though has shit-tons of horror.
Middle East to October, Benelux to February, Japan to June, Italy to April?
Downside is that it would put Middle East and Iran&Central Asia close after each other.
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#101

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

I feel like I’m playing chess. :lol:
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#102

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

peeptoad wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:50 pm Let's ditch the idea of moving Japan to August since both Onderhond and LW are against and I don't have strong feelings about that. Swapping Japan and Oceania, and possibly moving France somewhere else, if consensus is not to pair it with TTW, seems the most straightfoward solution...?
Or what about a France-Horror pairing. Could be fun. Like OldAle said pairing any (Major) country with horror will give easy doubles. And put Japan in July? Although pairing with TTW might also not be a popular idea, since TTW ended so high in the poll.
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#103

Post by sol »

A couple of things to consider:

1. Sol needs to sleep soon

2. Sol needs to go to work tomorrow


With that in mind, I'm not going to reply to anything yet or try to alter the Schedule yet.

What I will do is take a look at all the replies here and at some point tomorrow (let's say 19-24 hours time), I will post a newly updated Schedule with the country placements that seem to have the most agreement/consensus.
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#104

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

sol wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:17 pm A couple of things to consider:

1. Sol needs to sleep soon

2. Sol needs to go to work tomorrow


With that in mind, I'm not going to reply to anything yet or try to alter the Schedule yet.

What I will do is take a look at all the replies here and at some point tomorrow (let's say 19-24 hours time), I will post a newly updated Schedule with the country placements that seem to have the most agreement/consensus.
Sleep well!
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#105

Post by OldAle1 »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm
peeptoad wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:50 pm Let's ditch the idea of moving Japan to August since both Onderhond and LW are against and I don't have strong feelings about that. Swapping Japan and Oceania, and possibly moving France somewhere else, if consensus is not to pair it with TTW, seems the most straightfoward solution...?
Or what about a France-Horror pairing. Could be fun. Like OldAle said pairing any (Major) country with horror will give easy doubles. And put Japan in July? Although pairing with TTW might also not be a popular idea, since TTW ended so high in the poll.
I like France and horror; it certainly isn't as known for the genre as Italy, and probably no more than Japan, but it has a lot of distinctive stuff that really hasn't been seen by many people (including me).
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#106

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

OldAle1 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:24 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm
peeptoad wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:50 pm Let's ditch the idea of moving Japan to August since both Onderhond and LW are against and I don't have strong feelings about that. Swapping Japan and Oceania, and possibly moving France somewhere else, if consensus is not to pair it with TTW, seems the most straightfoward solution...?
Or what about a France-Horror pairing. Could be fun. Like OldAle said pairing any (Major) country with horror will give easy doubles. And put Japan in July? Although pairing with TTW might also not be a popular idea, since TTW ended so high in the poll.
I like France and horror; it certainly isn't as known for the genre as Italy, and probably no more than Japan, but it has a lot of distinctive stuff that really hasn't been seen by many people (including me).
That was my idea too

I think the main thing now is to get Japan out of Feb and move either Benelux or Oceania there. And than see what else to move around for a good-working schedule.
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#107

Post by OldAle1 »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:25 pm
OldAle1 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:24 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm
Or what about a France-Horror pairing. Could be fun. Like OldAle said pairing any (Major) country with horror will give easy doubles. And put Japan in July? Although pairing with TTW might also not be a popular idea, since TTW ended so high in the poll.
I like France and horror; it certainly isn't as known for the genre as Italy, and probably no more than Japan, but it has a lot of distinctive stuff that really hasn't been seen by many people (including me).
That was my idea too

I think the main thing now is to get Japan out of Feb and move either Benelux or Oceania there. And than see what else to move around for a good-working schedule.
Mmm I like Japan and Run-the-Director though. Give me a chance to watch all 52 unseen Naruse films in one go.
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#108

Post by St. Gloede »

PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:46 pm
sol wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:32 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:26 pm Switch France with one of the regions, maybe? Lat Am, Middle East or Central Asia.
No. We can swap France with a single country, but a group of countries provide too easy overlap.

And contrary to what Chris has said, it is usually better to have two juggernaut challenges next to each other - otherwise, small challenges tend to get squished to smithereens.
And single countries provide only one overlap. These ones provide a fixed and limited overlap of 10-20 films so unlike overlaps that let you win both challenges at once these act as encouragement to sample the region before either focusing on it or moving away. In other words, if you compare it to the overlap with individual countries it's a lot, but if you compare it to the overlap of almost any other pair of challenges it's quite limited.
Excellent point.
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#109

Post by St. Gloede »

sol wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:32 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:26 pm Switch France with one of the regions, maybe? Lat Am, Middle East or Central Asia.
No. We can swap France with a single country, but a group of countries provide too easy overlap.

And contrary to what Chris has said, it is usually better to have two juggernaut challenges next to each other - otherwise, small challenges tend to get squished to smithereens.
Solid reasoning, but still a hard choice. :unsure:
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#110

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

I'll stay out of the Japan back-and-forth as I don't really mind either way.

If it's a choice between Benelux and another option for February, my pick would be Benelux.

Sleep well, Sol.
That's all, folks!
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#111

Post by St. Gloede »

Have a great night's sleep, Sol. Wonderful work here. Thank you for all your time working on this.
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#112

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

France and Horror does have an undeniable appeal, as much as I like and suggested July. I would be very happy with such a switch, actually.

Such a move might facilitate Japan to July and Benelux to February, which might satisfy others?
That's all, folks!
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#113

Post by Onderhond »

Melvelet wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:54 pm And in holiday season you have less time for movies than usual?
Absolutely. When I'm on vacation, I don't touch films. That 8 or 9 days of total disconnect is amazing.
Both February and May work very well for me, though with a slight preference for May I guess. But I'll leave that to others to decide :)
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#114

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:54 pm France and Horror does have an undeniable appeal, as much as I like and suggested July. I would be very happy with such a switch, actually.

Such a move might facilitate Japan to July and Benelux to February, which might satisfy others?
Offered that option before, so I like it. Don’t know how others will like the Japan-TTW pairing.
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#115

Post by St. Gloede »

Japan and France both offer issues for TTW, I prefer PAs suggestion.
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#116

Post by Traveller »

St. Gloede wrote: October 11th, 2020, 3:11 pm Japan and France both offer issues for TTW, I prefer PAs suggestion.
+1 from me.

Switch it with one of the two Asian regions mentioned by PA.
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#117

Post by peeptoad »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: October 11th, 2020, 2:10 pm
peeptoad wrote: October 11th, 2020, 1:50 pm Let's ditch the idea of moving Japan to August since both Onderhond and LW are against and I don't have strong feelings about that. Swapping Japan and Oceania, and possibly moving France somewhere else, if consensus is not to pair it with TTW, seems the most straightfoward solution...?
Or what about a France-Horror pairing. Could be fun. Like OldAle said pairing any (Major) country with horror will give easy doubles. And put Japan in July? Although pairing with TTW might also not be a popular idea, since TTW ended so high in the poll.
I could definitely get down with some French horror. I am probably out of date since ~2010 or so.
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sol
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#118

Post by sol »

Listening to all of the feedback:
  • Placed France into October in order that two juggernaut challenges compete against each other as suggested
  • Placed Japan into May since there are indeed few Japanese westerns (plus it makes Onderhond happy)
  • Placed Benelux in February since nobody seems to mind (plus it makes Roger happy)
  • Placed Central Asia against Travel the World (everybody seems to like PA's idea); also makes sense to encourage viewers to check out more from this oft neglected region
  • Placed Oceania in the vacant December spot
Are we done yet?

2021 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress
MonthCountry ChallengeTheme ChallengeTheme Challenge
January Latin America - excl. Ar, Br, Uy & Mx Sci-Fi/Fantasy 1000<400
February Benelux Experimental/Avant-Garde Run the Director
March UK/Ireland Directed by Women Waves from Around World
April Middle East - excl. Iran Doubling the Canon Nominees Animation
May Japan Western Mystery & Thriller
June Italy One Film From Each Year LGBTIQ+
July Iran & Central Asia Travel the World Run the Actor
August Korean Peninsula <400 Checks Action & Adventure
September Eastern Europe - excl. Russia & Balkans Silent Era Low IMDb Rating
October France Horror One Film From Each iCM List
November Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay Film Noir War movies
December Oceania Documentary Unofficial
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
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St. Gloede
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#119

Post by St. Gloede »

I love this, Sol.

(From a personal level I now have at least one challenge I'm excited by in every single month. Incredible. And the clashes are far less devastating as well. I'm especially excited by the new Travel the World and Iran & Central Asia. Will aim to participate in both, with an aim to see one film from each of the latter countries + an extra focus on Iran).
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RogerTheMovieManiac88
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#120

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

It looks nice to me. There are minor things that I myself would tweak (Act./Ad. & Low rating), but pretty much everyone would have their ideal scenario. This has come out looking interesting across the board.

I love the pairing of Iran/Central Asia with Travel the World. That'll be a fun one. I really like February and March and the last three months of 2021. Every month though has one or two options that particularly grab me.

Thanks for all your time and effort to this, Sol. It's really good!
That's all, folks!
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