Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 16 released September 13th)
Polls: Romance (Results), 1951 (Results), 500<400 (Sep 23rd), 2008 (Oct 4th)
Challenges: Animation, Silent Era, Russia/USSR
Film of the Week: L'inhumaine, October nominations (Sep 25th)
World Cup S4: QF Schedule, Match QFB: India vs Greece (Sep 20th), Match QFC: Germany vs Italy (Oct 1st)

2021 Challenges: Country/Region Challenges Discussion

Post Reply
User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 9492
Joined: Feb 03, 2017
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

2021 Challenges: Country/Region Challenges Discussion

#1

Post by sol » September 5th, 2020, 3:41 am

2021 Challenges: Country/Region Challenges Discussion

After much discussion and debate, we decided last year to divide the world into 24 distinct zones in order that we could rotate through every region/country in the world over a two-year period.

Here is the thread from last year where we discussed this: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4521

The discussion last year gave way to the following two line-ups being organised.

2020 Lineup2021 Lineup
Africa
Balkans
Canada
Caribbean
China/Hong Kong/Taiwan
Germany/Austria/Switzerland (2018)
Iberia (Spain, Portugal and surrounds) (2018)
India/Pakistan/Myanmar/Bangladesh
Mexico
Nordic countries
Russia/USSR
Southeast Asia
Benelux
Central America
Eastern Europe - excluding Russia and Balkans
France
Iran/Central Asia
Italy
Japan
Korean Peninsula
Middle East - excluding Iran
Oceania
South America
UK/Ireland


My question on this thread is whether we are happy with this lineup for 2021, or whether we want to change/merge some of the 2021 options.

The 2021 option that I am particularly concerned about myself is Central America. As the person who visited the most countries during the October Latin America & Caribbean Challenge last year, it seems to me that the filmic output from this region is very slim. I still think it was a wise move to take the Caribbean out of the equation and have it separate this year since Cuba alone has over 2000 films, but none of the Central American nations are (at least to my knowledge) massive film producers.

Here are some possibilities that I have been mulling over. What do you all think?

Option 1 - what is currently scheduled
South AmericaCentral America


Option 2 - group Central and South America into Latin America and have a separate Argentine Challenge
Latin America excluding ArgentinaArgentina ..................................


Option 3 - group Central and South America into Latin America and have a separate Brazillian Challenge
Latin America excluding BrazilBrazil .................................


Any other ideas?

We could also just have a giant Latin American Challenge (including Argentina and Brazil) and section off one of the other 2021 Challenges, e.g. have East Europe and Poland or Czech/Slovak separately in the freed-up slot.

Any thoughts and other suggestions are welcome.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image

User avatar
maxwelldeux
Donator
Posts: 8164
Joined: Jun 07, 2016
Location: Seattle-ish, WA, USA
Contact:

#2

Post by maxwelldeux » September 5th, 2020, 4:37 am

For me, I think we agreed on a 2-year experiment for country challenges, and I'd vote we leave 2021 unchanged. We have 12 lined up that are distinct from the 2020 challenges, so let's go with those.

User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 9492
Joined: Feb 03, 2017
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#3

Post by sol » September 5th, 2020, 5:44 am

maxwelldeux wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 4:37 am
For me, I think we agreed on a 2-year experiment for country challenges, and I'd vote we leave 2021 unchanged. We have 12 lined up that are distinct from the 2020 challenges, so let's go with those.
Sure, I'd like to keep the 2-year experiment going.

The only thing I'd argue is that with 8211 feature length films and documentaries, Argentina has probably produced more movies than Central America, and therefore rather than have South America and Central America as 2021 Challenge Options, it would make more sense to have Latin America (exc. Argentina and Argentina as 2021 options instead. Both of these options would cover the exact same amount of territory, but there would be more to explore in a distinct Argentine challenge than in a distinct Central American Challenge.

But that's just my two cents. If most people want it kept like it is, that's cool, we have can give it a try. :thumbsup:
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image

User avatar
RogerTheMovieManiac88
Posts: 1704
Joined: Feb 04, 2017
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Contact:

#4

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » September 5th, 2020, 5:59 am

I'm sitting out most of the country challenges this year and next, as I'm against this 24-zone, two-year system. As such, I'm more of an interested bystander here.

I think I would take part in an Argentine or Brazil challenge, though. Both are countries I would love to delve into cinematically over the course of a specially dedicated month.
That's all, folks!

User avatar
Traveller
Posts: 1382
Joined: Dec 31, 2018
Location: Germany
Contact:

#5

Post by Traveller » September 5th, 2020, 7:00 am

I’m with max on this topic. As for the options, I’m very much indifferent.
ICM
September Challenge: Image
But at the bottom, the immanent philosopher sees in the entire universe only the deepest longing for absolute annihilation, and it is as if he clearly hears the call that permeates all spheres of heaven: Redemption! Redemption! Death to our life! and the comforting answer: you will all find annihilation and be redeemed!

User avatar
blueboybob
Donator
Posts: 2261
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
Location: DC
Contact:

#6

Post by blueboybob » September 5th, 2020, 1:19 pm

I say we let the 2year experiment complete then decide next year.

User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 11190
Joined: May 06, 2011
Contact:

#7

Post by St. Gloede » September 5th, 2020, 2:10 pm

When this topic came up last I was trying to get a few countries set as "permanent challenges", namely France and Japan (with a possibility of others), clearly I lost that vote though, so I say let's stick to the roster.

(In terms of merging South and Central America in favor of Argentina I'm not quite sure. They may have a large amount of films and a "recent" boom, but Brazil is by far the more respected cinema nation. Of course, any challenge focusing on South America or even Latin America are likely to be completely dominated by Brazil, followed by Argentina, so I do see value in it - my general inclination is to keep what won last year however)

psychotronicbeatnik
Donator
Posts: 1818
Joined: Feb 04, 2017
Location: Oregon
Contact:

#8

Post by psychotronicbeatnik » September 5th, 2020, 5:39 pm

I agree with others that we should table discussion on the country challenges until both years have been run.

:cheers:

User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 4403
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

#9

Post by Fergenaprido » September 5th, 2020, 6:05 pm

Keeping Central and South America separate as they are now will just force participants to dig deep to seek out the few available films from Central America. Those 7 countries have had more output in the 2010s, so people should be able to find stuff to watch, but I'd imagine it'd be hard for anyone to hit 100 (unless the speak Spanish and don't need subtitles). Guatemala and Costa Rica are probably the two biggest film producers in the region.

Another option is to pair the two biggies, Argentina and Brazil, in one challenge, and have the rest of Central & South America in the other challenge.
Or, have an ABC(C) challenge of the biggest film countries (Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, and/or Chile), and then the rest.

Lastly, you could wait and see what the poll schedule for 2021 will look like, and if there will be a specific subregion that will have it's own poll (such as Central Europe), you could combine Central & South America into a single challenge, and use the free spot for the same countries as the poll. I don't know when the poll schedule will be decided, though. I don't think a thread's been started yet.

User avatar
hurluberlu
Donator
Posts: 1905
Joined: Jan 04, 2017
Contact:

#10

Post by hurluberlu » September 5th, 2020, 7:09 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 6:05 pm
Another option is to pair the two biggies, Argentina and Brazil, in one challenge, and have the rest of Central & South America in the other challenge.
+1
#JeSuisCharlie Liberté, Liberté chérie !

Image
ImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Lonewolf2003
Donator
Posts: 9632
Joined: Dec 29, 2012
Contact:

#11

Post by Lonewolf2003 » September 5th, 2020, 7:15 pm

psychotronicbeatnik wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 5:39 pm
I agree with others that we should table discussion on the country challenges until both years have been run.

:cheers:
Me too.

User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 9492
Joined: Feb 03, 2017
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#12

Post by sol » September 6th, 2020, 2:34 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 6:05 pm
Keeping Central and South America separate as they are now will just force participants to dig deep to seek out the few available films from Central America. Those 7 countries have had more output in the 2010s, so people should be able to find stuff to watch, but I'd imagine it'd be hard for anyone to hit 100 (unless the speak Spanish and don't need subtitles).
Exactly. In the past, the general guideline that I have used when green-lighting challenge ideas is that there has to be at least ~1000 films out there for us to choose from to avoid the situation in which everyone is just watching the same things as one another. I don't know if that's a case with Central America, and when it initially proposed last year that we separate Central America and the Caribbean (the two zones were run together on SCFZ), I didn't realise just how paltry the output of Central America was compared to the Caribbean, which is of course propped up largely by Cuba.
hurluberlu wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 6:05 pm
Another option is to pair the two biggies, Argentina and Brazil, in one challenge, and have the rest of Central & South America in the other challenge.
+1
My first thought was that geographically this looks rather odd since you have Uruguay, which is bordered entirely by Brazil, Argentina and the ocean, and which would be included separately, but yes - it makes a lot of sense to me to have a Latin American Challenge (minus the big players), which does indeed put Brazil and Argentina together.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image

User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 4403
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

#13

Post by Fergenaprido » September 6th, 2020, 7:15 am

sol wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 2:34 am
hurluberlu wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 7:09 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
September 5th, 2020, 6:05 pm
Another option is to pair the two biggies, Argentina and Brazil, in one challenge, and have the rest of Central & South America in the other challenge.
+1
My first thought was that geographically this looks rather odd since you have Uruguay, which is bordered entirely by Brazil, Argentina and the ocean, and which would be included separately, but yes - it makes a lot of sense to me to have a Latin American Challenge (minus the big players), which does indeed put Brazil and Argentina together.
You can always throw in Uruguay as a bonus. It used to be part of Brazil (albeit for only a few years) and is culturally very connected with Argentina (and I believe they have a number of co-productions).

Mind you it won't be a "Latin American Challenge (minus the big players)" since Latin America includes Cuba, DR, and PR (and sometimes Haiti and the other French Caribbean islands).

User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 9492
Joined: Feb 03, 2017
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#14

Post by sol » September 6th, 2020, 11:44 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 7:15 am
You can always throw in Uruguay as a bonus. It used to be part of Brazil (albeit for only a few years) and is culturally very connected with Argentina (and I believe they have a number of co-productions).

Mind you it won't be a "Latin American Challenge (minus the big players)" since Latin America includes Cuba, DR, and PR (and sometimes Haiti and the other French Caribbean islands).
That sounds like a great idea, Ferg. :thumbsup: I didn't know that about Uruguay's connections to its neighbouring countries. Definitely makes sense to make of a trio of them then. And yeah, the definition of Latin America seems to vary, so the description would indeed need to be more descriptive.

So this is what we are currently looking at:

2020 Lineup - done/pending/in progress2021 Lineup
Africa
Balkans
Canada
Caribbean
China/Hong Kong/Taiwan
Germany/Austria/Switzerland/Liechtenstein
Iberia (Spain, Portugal and surrounds)
India Subcontinent
Mexico
Nordic countries
Russia/USSR
Southeast Asia
Argentina/Brazil/Uruguay
Benelux
Eastern Europe - excluding Russia and Balkans
France
Iran/Central Asia
Italy
Japan
Korean Peninsula
Latin America - excluding Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Mexico & Caribbean
Middle East - excluding Iran
Oceania
UK/Ireland
Last edited by sol on September 6th, 2020, 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image

User avatar
Fergenaprido
Donator
Posts: 4403
Joined: Jun 03, 2014
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

#15

Post by Fergenaprido » September 6th, 2020, 2:39 pm

sol wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 11:44 am
And yeah, the definition of Latin America seems to vary, so the description would indeed need to be more descriptive.
So this is what we are currently looking at:
Latin America - excluding Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and the Caribbean
and Mexico ;)

User avatar
peeptoad
Posts: 2257
Joined: Feb 04, 2017
Contact:

#16

Post by peeptoad » September 6th, 2020, 2:54 pm

looks good to me :thumbsup:

User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 9492
Joined: Feb 03, 2017
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#17

Post by sol » September 6th, 2020, 3:10 pm

peeptoad wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 2:54 pm
looks good to me :thumbsup:
:cheers:
Fergenaprido wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 2:39 pm
sol wrote:
September 6th, 2020, 11:44 am
And yeah, the definition of Latin America seems to vary, so the description would indeed need to be more descriptive.
So this is what we are currently looking at:
Latin America - excluding Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and the Caribbean
and Mexico ;)
Thanks. Will edit and fix. :thumbsup:

Also going to copy something from the other thread:

Next week is a regular work week for me so I will not be able to regularly check in and respond to stuff on this thread. If I'm not responding, it doesn't mean that I am ignoring you, just that I have no time in the morning before work, or that I am at work, or that I am sleeping. I'll try to check these threads as regularly as possible.
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
Image Image Image

Post Reply