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2019 Challenges: Setting Up the Schedule

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RogerTheMovieManiac88
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Re: 2019 Challenges: Setting Up the Schedule

#41

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » November 3rd, 2018, 11:04 pm

albajos wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 10:56 pm
Animation with 30 vs Mystery with 20 votes is completely fair?

No, this is just you trying to find loopholes to fit your favorites.
Well, I think having six repeat challenges and six new challenges is fairer. If others favour a 7-5 split they are perfectly free to state that preference.
That's all, folks!

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#42

Post by sol » November 4th, 2018, 1:03 am

maxwelldeux wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 5:12 pm
I'm cool with all that. If we're merging Mystery/Suspense/Thriller, I'd suggest putting that in May(ish) so as not to put it close to the awfully similar Noir. I don't feel strongly about Cannes vs. One Per Year, as long as there is a conveniently located list for Cannes.

Nice work on this so far, sol!
Thanks! It's always a task navigating through everyone's suggestions, opinions and analyses of any results, but I purposely made myself free (or more free than usual) this weekend to attend to this thread.

Western is traditionally run in May, however, we can always place M/S/T in June.

This in the list that we'll be using for In Competition at Cannes, assuming we go down that pathway: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/in+c ... s/toro913/

1614 films (including over 1200 that I personally haven't seen). Sounds like a decent selection to choose from. Also, it's an international selection, which is always a good thing.
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 5:21 pm
- make the South Korea challenge a Korean challenge to include North Korea and pre-war cinema
- Eastern European challenge should be merged with Czech/Slovak challenge, but should EXCLUDE Russian/USSR films (doesn't make sense to me that the same country/region would be covered by two separate challenges in one year)
- bump up Iran to the schedule, since Mexico is already included in the Latin America challenge
- make the Latin America challenge a Latin America + Caribbean challenge - it's the same thing we did when we ran the poll, and the Caribbean is never going to get it's own challenge.
Yeah, I need to update the OP to change South Korean to the Peninsula since everybody seems in favour of that.

I don't, however, think that we can make the East European Challenge exclusive of Russia/USSR. If we aren't prepared to have an East Europe Minus CZE challenge, it's a little hypocritical to say that we are going to have an East Europe Minus USSR/RUS challenge.

I have no issue with tagging Caribbean onto Latin America if that's what everyone else wants.

I think that we have to take on Mario's suggestion next year of how to classify the regions of the world before releasing the country/region polls, namely:

Back at SCFZ we have split The World in 23 different zones; maybe you could choose this divide instead of this one here.

Africa, Balkan, Benelux, Canada, Central America/Caribbean, China/HK/Taiwan, Eastern Europe, France, Germany/Austria/Switzerland, India, Iran, Italy, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Middle East, Nordic countries, Oceania, Russia/USSR, South America, Southeast Asia, Spain/Portugal, UK/Ireland and USA.


Best way to avoid these overlap issues.
OldAle1 wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 7:00 pm
Maybe the answer is just more personal, unofficial challenges, since we''re never all going to get all the official ones we want. I'm thinking I'm going to do one next year, just have to decide what it's going to be.
That is the answer. No sense in forcing unpopular challenges onto the masses. That's not how you increase participation in the Official Challenge series.
psychotronicbeatnik wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 9:29 pm
For me the value of the decade challenges is just taking the time to really immerse myself in that time and place
I like the decade challenges myself for a similar reason and don't quite understand the vitriol. I mean, the 1990-2018 Challenge was obviously too broad (we can only learn from our mistakes) but the rest involved relatively confined time periods in which certain movements, themes and ideas were common. And surely you and I can't be alone on this, since the decades that were not run this year have all easily made their way into next year's lineup.
psychotronicbeatnik wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 9:29 pm
Putting this all together is a helluva lotta work and I applaud sol for taking on that project. :cheers:
Thanks! Always happy to do what I can to keep the Challenge series chugging along.
blocho wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 10:13 pm
There's a certain justice to putting low imdb challenge in January since this is when studios always bury their crap movies.

Anyway, I think most people have put in their two cents. Sol, I'm happy for you to make an executive decision based on all the feedback.
Thanks. I think that's the logical thing to do. I'm okay to wait a little longer, probably until late tonight (my time) before making any final decisions since that will give everyone close to 2 days to have chimed in here, but at this stage, I'm probably going to give the green light to Cannes over One Per Year since there is a clear movement on this thread against Challenges that are too broad and sweeping, and as Ale has pointed out, One Per Year would be even broader than our controversial decade challenges.

Regarding Low IMDb Rating in January --- I would rather place this against Film Noir to make doubles harder. What does everyone think about this?

But if we do place it in January, I will certainly be able to host it again.
RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 11:04 pm
albajos wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 10:56 pm
Animation with 30 vs Mystery with 20 votes is completely fair?

No, this is just you trying to find loopholes to fit your favorites.
Well, I think having six repeat challenges and six new challenges is fairer. If others favour a 7-5 split they are perfectly free to state that preference.
I think zzzorf and Roger might be right about this. It's not something that occurred to me when I released the results, and it probably should have. A permanent Challenge is, by definition, a repeated Challenge.

The 20 for Mystery and Romance versus the 30 for Animation and 1960s is also not directly comparable. With the repeat options, we had six votes to spread among ~12 options. With the new suggestions, we were given eight votes to spread among ~20 options.

Other/Random:

I'm adding Female Directors in April for the moment since we can always quick switch it around with DTC Nominees if Angel ends up being flexible with his schedule.

Do we want to have Cannes in May to coincide with the festival? Or do we want it later in the year when some of the 2019 lineup will have it made it to the big screen in wide release?
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#43

Post by India Istanbul » November 4th, 2018, 2:40 am

sol wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 3:55 am
This is the thread where we look at scheduling the 2019 Challenge options that performed the best in the October polls. For those interested, I am including vote tallies for every option that received one or more votes. It is only the options outside of spoiler tags that we will be scheduling -- with the exception of 1960s and Animation, since we need to work out how to break that tie.

For anyone confused, we are choosing 12 options per category so that we have one for each month of year, and we are choosing half new options and half repeated options to allow for greater diversity.

Results from the October polls:

Country Challenges (2018 repeat)

France - 38
Italy - 34
China/HK/Taiwan - 27
Latin America - 25
Russian/USSR - 23
Australia/NZ/Oceania - 21
Runners-upShow
Germany - 19
Scandinavia/Nordic - 19
Africa - 18
Canada - 18
Iberia - 12
Middle East - 11
I just wanted to echo psychotronicbeatnik's applause for you , sol, for doing all of this work! It's a lot and not easy.

I agree with you, 1960s over animation because we've done animation. And yes, combining Ireland and UK is fine by me.

I am really in favor of low IMDB rating films. I'm sure that doesn't answer any other questions.

Again, thanks sol, and whatever genres, themes, countries, they will be great challenges.


Country Challenges (new in 2019)

Japan - 35
UK/Ireland - 34
East Europe - 26
South Korea Korean Peninsula - 22
Benelux - 19
Czech/Slovak - 19
Runners-upShow
Poland - 18
Iran - 17
Mexico - 17
India - 16
Ireland - 16 (merged with UK; see above)
Southeast Asia - 14
Central Asia - 8
Hungary - 8
Romania - 7
Greece - 7
Israel - 7
Argentina - 6
Caribbean - 6
Philippines - 6
Turkey - 6
Vietnam - 6
Thailand - 5
Brazil - 5
Egypt - 5
Peru - 1

Suggested on this thread: Merge Czech/Slovak with Eastern Europe and bump Iran into the 2019 lineup

Genre/Decade Challenges (2018 repeat)

Horror (permanent)
Noir (permanent)

Documentary - 44
Western - 36
21st Century - 32
Sci-Fi/Fantasy - 32
1960s - 30 (this tie needs to be broken)
Animation - 30
Runners-upShow
Comedy - 23
1970s - 22
Action - 17
1980s - 15
1990s - 13

Genre/Decade Challenges (new in 2019)

War - 30
1930s - 28
1940s - 27
1950s - 26
Suspense/Thriller - 26
Runners-upShow
Mystery - 20
Romance - 20
Musical - 19
Biopic - 18
Crime - 18
New Hollywood - 18
Adult/Erotica - 16
Space & Time Travel - 16
Prison - 13
Adventure - 11
Spy/Espionage - 11
Conspiracy - 10
History - 10
Sport - 8
Alien Invasion - 7
Family - 6
Stand-Up - 6
Romantic Comedy - 5

Suggested on this thread: Ditch Animation and 1960s and instead promote Mystery or Romance

Theme Challenges (2018 repeat)

<400 Checks - 41
Directed by Women - 33
Silent Era - 31
Unofficial - 29
Low IMDb Rating - 25
They Shoot Pictures - 25
Runners-upShow
Doubling the Canon - 22
Cult/Grindhouse/Drive-In - 21
Criterion/Masters of Cinema - 17
Blaxploitation/African American - 14
LGBTIQ+/Queer - 14
Forum Lists - 11

Theme Challenges (new in 2019)

TSPDT 21st Century - 30
Academy Award nominees - 27
Jonathan Rosenbaum Essentials - 26
Conquering the World - 25
Doubling the Canon nominees - 22
Banned Films/Video Nasty - 21
Runners-upShow
In Competition at Cannes - 19
One film from each year - 19
Birth Year - 17
Coming of Age - 17
UNESCO Memory List - 16
Degrees of Separation - 15
Samurai - 15
One film from each iCM List - 14
Political - 13
Award Lists - 12
Book Adaptations - 11
Religious - 11
Re-watch - 11
Winter Movies - 11

Suggested on this thread: Merge TSPDT and TSPDT 21st Cent and promote either Cannes or One Per Year

Current issues to discuss
  • How do we break the tie between Animation and 1960s? Or do we promote a non-2018 genre instead?
  • Which Challenges do we want to run side-by-side? We have discussed trying to purposely schedule things for next year to make doubles and triples less achievable (thus creating greater diversity in what we watch).
  • Do we want to keep the regular schedule (Silents in September, Docs in December, etc) or do we want to shake things up?
  • Do we know in which month the DTC will be run? Obviously we need to know that before scheduling in the DTC nominees option.
  • Is everyone happy with my merging of the UK and Ireland? This idea was floated on the other threads.
Some thoughts of my own:

- Animation has been run 6 times in the past and the 1960s has only been run twice, so I think it is more logical to give the 1960s another whirl.

- There is enough time for me to a run a snap (say, 3-day) poll where we can vote on 1960s vs Animation if we can't decide through discussion.

- Let's place one of the later decades (40s, 50s, 60s or 21st Cent) in the same month as the Silent Era to make doubles harder.

And in extremely preliminary form, this is the table that we are looking to complete by the end of the month:

2019 Challenge Schedule: A Work in Progress
MonthCountry ChallengeGenre/Decade ChallengeTheme Challenge
January
February Academy Award Nominees
March Doubling the Canon Nominees
April Directed by Women
May Western
June Mystery/Suspense/Thriller
July
August <400 Checks
September Silent Era
October Horror
November Film Noir
December Documentary

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#44

Post by jeroeno » November 4th, 2018, 7:42 am

A few thoughts:
1. Like I said when I voted, I'm completely fine with Czech/Slovak being merged with Eastern Europe so please merge those and give Iran its well deserved challenge.
2. Mystery/Suspense/Thriller challenge is awesome, I'm all for it.
3. Merge the TSPDT and TSPDT 21st Century challenge and put it in May, when both lists are almost certainly updated.
4. Give the 12th slot of the Theme Challenges to "One film from each year" challenge and put it in the hardest slot, October against the Horror Challenge.
5. The Decade challenges in chronological order. '30's in January, 40's in March, 50's in July and 21st Century in September (against the Silent Era)
6. No 60's or Animation challenge but a Romance challenge.

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#45

Post by Fergenaprido » November 4th, 2018, 7:55 am

RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 5:51 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 5:21 pm
- Eastern European challenge should be merged with Czech/Slovak challenge, but should EXCLUDE Russian/USSR films (doesn't make sense to me that the same country/region would be covered by two separate challenges in one year)
I agree with everything else you say, Fergenaprido, but I do just want to voice my opposition to an element of this point. Russian films should of course be omitted but I think it would be extraordinarily insensitive to not include the pre-independence cinemas of Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, etc. in an Eastern European Challenge. The films of Talinnfilm, Rigas kinostudija, etc. are from film-makers from these particular nations and these films deserve to be heralded, championed and highlighted. It is a great tragedy, I think, that the blanket use of the term 'U.S.S.R.' often serves to bury these films among Russian films. When one searches on IMDb for Latvian, Estonian, Lithuanian films, Soviet-era productions from these places often don't show up. These nations were invaded and occupied. By including pre-independence films in such a challenge, it demonstrates an understanding and openness to exploring, examining and reintegrating the cinematic output of these nations as they navigated their way through these difficult times.
No argument from me there. I tend to view film countries based on current existing nations, not former ones, so for a Russian challenge I would only count films from studios based in what is now Russia, regardless of year. I know, however, that I'm in the minority for that.

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#46

Post by Fergenaprido » November 4th, 2018, 7:57 am

RogerTheMovieManiac88 wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 11:04 pm
albajos wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 10:56 pm
Animation with 30 vs Mystery with 20 votes is completely fair?

No, this is just you trying to find loopholes to fit your favorites.
Well, I think having six repeat challenges and six new challenges is fairer. If others favour a 7-5 split they are perfectly free to state that preference.
Agreed with Roger. It was odd to me to see that despite horror and noir becoming permanent, we still wanted to have more than 4 other repeating challenges. It has nothing to do with fitting in favourites, whatever the narrative you're trying to spin here.

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#47

Post by Fergenaprido » November 4th, 2018, 8:02 am

sol wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:03 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 5:21 pm
- Eastern European challenge should be merged with Czech/Slovak challenge, but should EXCLUDE Russian/USSR films (doesn't make sense to me that the same country/region would be covered by two separate challenges in one year)
I don't, however, think that we can make the East European Challenge exclusive of Russia/USSR. If we aren't prepared to have an East Europe Minus CZE challenge, it's a little hypocritical to say that we are going to have an East Europe Minus USSR/RUS challenge.
My only disagreement with you is on this. Russia has a massive output compared to any other Eastern European nation, and we've excluded it from Eastern European challenges in the past because of this and because it has its own challenge. If we kept the Czechia challenge, I'd agree with excluding it from the Eastern European one, but given how close the votes were I'd rather include Czechia and Poland in the EE challenge and give Iran it's own spot.

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#48

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » November 4th, 2018, 8:12 am

Cool to read that about Eastern Europe, Fergenaprido! I hope I didn't misrepresent or misinterpret what you were saying but I just thought this might be a good place to share my take.

I like jeroeno's way of thinking as well!
That's all, folks!

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#49

Post by sol » November 4th, 2018, 8:18 am

jeroeno wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 7:42 am
3. Merge the TSPDT and TSPDT 21st Century challenge and put it in May, when both lists are almost certainly updated.
4. Give the 12th slot of the Theme Challenges to "One film from each year" challenge and put it in the hardest slot, October against the Horror Challenge.
5. The Decade challenges in chronological order. '30's in January, 40's in March, 50's in July and 21st Century in September (against the Silent Era)
6. No 60's or Animation challenge but a Romance challenge.
3. Yes, can do.
4. Interesting idea, though out of respect for those who want less broad challenges (most here), we'll probably go with Cannes instead.
5. Yes, agreed on 21st Century and Silents going together and the rest of the decades in order, though which months - not sure yet.
6. Yes, that's happening.
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 8:02 am
sol wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:03 am
Fergenaprido wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 5:21 pm
- Eastern European challenge should be merged with Czech/Slovak challenge, but should EXCLUDE Russian/USSR films (doesn't make sense to me that the same country/region would be covered by two separate challenges in one year)
I don't, however, think that we can make the East European Challenge exclusive of Russia/USSR. If we aren't prepared to have an East Europe Minus CZE challenge, it's a little hypocritical to say that we are going to have an East Europe Minus USSR/RUS challenge.
My only disagreement with you is on this. Russia has a massive output compared to any other Eastern European nation, and we've excluded it from Eastern European challenges in the past because of this and because it has its own challenge. If we kept the Czechia challenge, I'd agree with excluding it from the Eastern European one, but given how close the votes were I'd rather include Czechia and Poland in the EE challenge and give Iran it's own spot.
Oh - didn't realise that there was a precedent for excluding Russia from East Europe. Well, that makes sense then.

Other:

- I'll update the OP some time after I open the weekly thread tonight to state what we are settling on scheduling in. So, you've still got a few hours to have your say if you haven't already.

- At this stage, I'm penciling in Latin America to go up against Horror since we need a popular Country/Region Challenge in the same month, and Italy, France, Japan etc are all well known for their horror films, so better to go for a region with less horror and less commonly seen horror.
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#50

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » November 4th, 2018, 8:20 am

Just to clarify, I think Russia should be kept separate from Eastern Europe. I was talking about Soviet-era Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, etc. in terms of inclusion in the Eastern European Challenge. With Fergenaprido on this.
That's all, folks!

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#51

Post by sol » November 4th, 2018, 12:29 pm

Edited the OP in the hope of making things less confusing. It was getting to be a lot of information to sift through, and I have relocated the majority of it under spoiler tags. This should hopefully make the directions that we are going in clear for anybody who joins in with the discussions late into the proceedings.

Some summary stuff:

Out of respect to what appears to be a running theme on this thread, I have given the green light to the less broad 'In Competition at Cannes' option rather than the all-encompassing 'One Film Per Year' option. We are also giving the green light to Romance and merging Mystery with Suspense/Thriller since it what most people seem to want.

In terms of filling in the rest of the schedule, it might make the most sense to place in countries last once we know which themes and genres would least suit that country. Which, for those who have not been following the discussions, is designed to help promote diversity rather than have everyone dipping into the same easy doubles and triples each month.

For the moment, I have slotted in Iran in the same month as Western since an IMDb Power Search reveal only two Iranian westerns. Happy to take feedback on this.

I'm also still after feedback regarding the possibility of running Low IMDb Rating in the same month as Film Noir (since most noirs have high IMDb ratings).

There's probably some other stuff. Just note that nothing in the preliminary schedule is super-permanent. We could knock M/S/T to another month if we want to run the decades with one month gaps in between. We could even bump Horror and Noir out of their traditional months if we wanted to be controversial. ;) Nothing is set in stone.
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#52

Post by blueboybob » November 4th, 2018, 12:57 pm

Unofficial should either be January (clear your list for the new year) or December.

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#53

Post by jeroeno » November 4th, 2018, 12:57 pm

Yes, Low IMDB Rating alongside Film Noir and perhaps the Korean. Not a lot of Korean Noirs I imagine.

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#54

Post by 72allinncallme » November 4th, 2018, 1:01 pm

Use random.org and decide the schedule that way (Horror and Noir excluded). Easiest and the most fun way to do it.

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#55

Post by jeroeno » November 4th, 2018, 1:03 pm

blueboybob wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 12:57 pm
Unofficial should either be January (clear your list for the new year) or December.
Or the month before the <400 challenge because the poll for the <400 list will probably start around that time.

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#56

Post by sol » November 4th, 2018, 1:05 pm

72allinncallme wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:01 pm
Use random.org and decide the schedule that way (Horror and Noir excluded). Easiest and the most fun way to do it.
Thanks but no thanks. I think it's important to get the feedback of those who participate in the Challenges when deciding how schedule it.
jeroeno wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 12:57 pm
Yes, Low IMDB Rating alongside Film Noir and perhaps the Korean. Not a lot of Korean Noirs I imagine.
Interesting idea. Sounds okay to me. What does everyone think?
blueboybob wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 12:57 pm
Unofficial should either be January (clear your list for the new year) or December.
Sounds logical. Interested to hear everyone else's thoughts on this.
jeroeno wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:03 pm
blueboybob wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 12:57 pm
Unofficial should either be January (clear your list for the new year) or December.
Or the month before the <400 challenge because the poll for the <400 list will probably start around that time.
I can see the logic in this too.
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#57

Post by 72allinncallme » November 4th, 2018, 1:17 pm

sol wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:05 pm
72allinncallme wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:01 pm
Use random.org and decide the schedule that way (Horror and Noir excluded). Easiest and the most fun way to do it.
Thanks but no thanks. I think it's important to get the feedback of those who participate in the Challenges when deciding how schedule it.
Do I not participate? :think:
There are several opinions on the subject. Some want difficult triples other want easy ones. Some want the Low IMDb Challenge in January others in August. Etc etc...
Doing it at random is the most fair and the easiest option. That way you might get some easy triples and you might get some difficult ones. And no one can complain.

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#58

Post by sol » November 4th, 2018, 1:29 pm

72allinncallme wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:17 pm
There are several opinions on the subject. Some want difficult triples other want easy ones. Some want the Low IMDb Challenge in January others in August. Etc etc...
Doing it at random is the most fair and the easiest option. That way you might get some easy triples and you might get some difficult ones. And no one can complain.
Last year we managed to nut out a schedule that everyone was okay with through polite and civil discussion. I don't see why that would not be achievable again this year. We currently have a few options of where to place Unofficial (for example) so I'll give it some time, see what everyone thinks about it, and make a decision based on that. It's really no more difficult than my deciding to let Romance into the game. It's a matter of listening to majority opinion and being prepared to bow to that. And I'm saying that as someone who voted for Czech/Slovak and would have prepared to have it separate.

Random has its own issues. We've already had Roger accused with toying with the numbers to promote his favourites. I can't imagine what accusations might be thrown my way should I bring back 'random' results that do not seem all that random.

I don't know. I mean, surely you're okay to let us debate this for a few days if you personally don't care which order things are in?
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#59

Post by 72allinncallme » November 4th, 2018, 1:56 pm

^ Yes we did. But in retrospect many have stated issues that we didn’t see at the time. And it will probably be the same next year. That’s the nature of things. You don’t know what you have before you’re have had it. The same might happen if we use random.org, but if you brush that option off we’ll never know.

I do care which order the challenges are in and thats precisely why I think that randomized is the best option. But I have no problem whatsoever in discussing the schedule, in fact that’s exactly what I’m doing.

One issue I have with the polls (a bit of topic, sorry) is that challenges had earlier in the year do way better than the ones we recently had/ not have done yet (December/November). The Country/Region challenges specifically. I don’t have the answer on how to avoid that, but I felt like it needed to be said. It brings us back to the order of the schedule. The ones we decide to have late in the year probably wont stand a chance in 2020.
Last edited by 72allinncallme on November 4th, 2018, 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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#60

Post by 72allinncallme » November 4th, 2018, 2:04 pm

sol wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:29 pm
Random has its own issues. We've already had Roger accused with toying with the numbers to promote his favourites. I can't imagine what accusations might be thrown my way should I bring back 'random' results that do not seem all that random.
Yeah, that’s stupid. This is different though. We would just have to trust you. The entire «challenge» is build on trust so I don’t think that’s an issue.

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#61

Post by sol » November 4th, 2018, 2:28 pm

72allinncallme wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:56 pm
^ Yes we did. But in retrospect many have stated issues that we didn’t see at the time. And it will probably be the same next year. That’s the nature of things. You don’t know what you have before you’re have had it. The same might happen if we use random.org, but if you brush that option off we’ll never know.
However, if we decide things, rather than random.org, we are able to learn from our mistakes (e.g. aligning Westerns, Italian and Cult together) and make things better for next time. We already have a rough idea of what we want; it's just a matter of discussing back and forward to see what works.
72allinncallme wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:56 pm
But I have no problem whatsoever in discussing the schedule, in fact that’s exactly what I’m doing.
Okay, fine - I'll give you this much: if we are not able to reach agreement on how to schedule things, then I'll turn to random.org, but I think we should give human discussion a go first. As stated, it worked last year and I don't think that there have been *that* many complaints.
72allinncallme wrote:
November 4th, 2018, 1:56 pm
One issue I have with the polls (a bit of topic, sorry) is that challenges had earlier in the year do way better than the ones we recently had/ not have done yet (December/November). The Country/Region challenges specifically. I don’t have the answer on how to avoid that.
Interesting observation. I wonder if it stacks up true of the 2017 schedule when it was voted for in 2016. Not sure if that's a definite anomaly or just the way it happens to be. Africa was done fairly early in the year though, and that received the most votes last year but did not get re-elected this year.
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#62

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » November 4th, 2018, 3:35 pm

Personally, I'm not in favour of deliberately going out of the way to make doubles and triples harder or nigh on impossible to achieve. Having some months where topics coalesce and align isn't necessarily a bad thing. I enjoy the doubles and triples aspect but usually don't go out of my way to rack up triples. Just a smattering across the board. I actually find that doubles and triples often aid and further my enjoyment of individual challenges.

I know that you (and hurluberlu, I think) favour making crossover between challenges less common but I have seen 'beatnik and several others saying on this thread and in other posts that they enjoy the overlapping aspect to the challenges. I don't say that out of wanting to have it all the same as it has been. It's just an observation.
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#63

Post by sol » November 4th, 2018, 3:49 pm

It's late, I'm tired and I don't have enough time to go digging through all the threads, but we (as in a whole bunch of us) have discussed limiting the doubling/tripling aspect at several points this year. There are going to be some months with lots of overlap. It's unavoidable. But I think aiming for diversity in what we watch (rather than everyone watching the same DTC Chinese action films in the same month) can only be a good thing.
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#64

Post by Lonewolf2003 » November 4th, 2018, 4:07 pm

I’m going to set up a thread to decide our monthly polls for 2019 this week. Maybe we could use those results also to set up the challenge schedule, if there is any overlap. Some like having a challenge about the poll subject in the preceding month.

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#65

Post by Lakigigar » November 4th, 2018, 8:43 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 7:00 pm
Time travel (one of my suggestions) or banned films aren't nearly as large, and even those categories that are large that didn't do well - coming of age for example - just aren't as obvious I think. What's a coming of age film? Not sure.
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/a+co ... lakigigar/

I made this list in anticipation of a possible coming-of-age challenge. I'm sad it didn't make it... I'll probably need to campaign for it in 2020.

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#66

Post by Lakigigar » November 4th, 2018, 9:01 pm

1. I had proposed a TSPDT 21st century list challenge, but i'm fine with merging it with TSPDT. I didn't know both were actually already merged, and it wouldn't make sense to have two 21st century challenges in one year. We can always shake things up next year, if needed. But I think it would be fair to promote In Competition in Cannes or One from each year. Or even move Animation to the theme challenges.
2. ICM will probably make their own Benelux list, so i'd argue to connect the Benelux challenge to the Benelux list, so at least not putting Benelux in december.
3. It's an idea to possibly merge Banned Films/Video Nasty with Cult/Grindhouse and Drive-in? We also have low IMDB rating and Unofficial so we'd still be at 3 separate challenges for those.
4. I'd prefer mystery/romance over animation/1960's to guarantee some variety, thus a 6/6 split.
5. I agree with making doubles / triples harder (but it doesn't need to be impossible). What however needs to be done, is make doubles different from last year / usual as often as possible. I think that's the critical thing to do.

EDIT: I've checked for what months are available for Benelux, as we'll almost certainly have that list. In march, june, september, october and december we have annual lists, so that leaves out february, may, august, september, november and december (except if ICM forum creates two lists in one month). May and october have already a country filled in.

January, march, april, june, july are still available to Benelux. It will have to be held in the first half of the year. Australia / NZ could be placed in the second half of the year, because we had it quite recently (although i was misinformed about how many times it was held recently). I would propose to have the Russia / USSR and the UK / Ireland challenge also quite early in the year, as they're relatively big challenges we haven't had last year. I think Russia / USSR would fit quite nicely with SF / Fantasy (because of the nature of the country), but i would need to check if that combination has been done recently or not.
funkybusiness wrote:
November 3rd, 2018, 4:19 am
3. I would very much like for Russian/USSR to be run again, preferably early in the year like 2018, and I would enjoy hosting again, if that's an option.
which has been proposed already also.

Sci/Fi-Fantasy seems to be tradition in january, because it's been done in 2016, 2017 and 2018. Sci-Fi Fantasy has never been done with Russia. I also feel like Russia needs to be done in a winter month, as the country itself reminds me of the winter. It would feel kinda out of place if it was being done during summer (esp. since their movies are often dark and depressing). The Russia challenge is also traditionally held during winter time (often in december).

Another thing that i'd noticed is that Eastern Europe is quite likely to have it's own poll as well (just like Benelux), so the available months would be january, march, april, june and july. I think it would be a good idea to separate Russia a bit from Eastern Europe, as they're similar regions.

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#67

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » November 4th, 2018, 10:01 pm

Nice points, Lakigigar.

A 'Banned Film Challenge' does seem a bit narrow in scope to me. I don't know how many banned films there are (I'm sure there are hundreds if not thousands) and what sort of parameters those proposing this option had in mind. Is it to be limited to films banned in Anglophone countries and, indeed, how does one define 'banned'? I'm not all that keen on it as a challenge idea, to be honest. However, it's in and I'm sure it'll be of interest.

Different doubles to last year due to different pairing of challenges - Yes I very much like that idea. I do like the idea of doubles and trebles being attainable.

I could definitely get on board with the idea of a Russian Challenge being held in one of the first few months (or last few months) of the year. I quite like that idea of linking it to the cold, snow and freezing of wintertime!
That's all, folks!

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#68

Post by sol » November 5th, 2018, 9:31 am

@Lonewolf

While I think that it would be a good idea to get something in place so we have some idea of where we are heading, we can definitely adjust the Challenge schedule so that it feeds better in the polls.

@Lakigigar

That coming-of-age list is awesome! :poshclap: I think if you make mention of it next year, it will definitely help to gain votes for the Challenge idea. There's over 1000 films in that list (so plenty to choose from) and no doubt other smaller lists would be floating around out there.

Yes, we're promoting Cannes at the moment.

I don't think it's a good idea to combine Cult/Grindhouse/Drive-In with the Banned Films/Video Nasty option since:
(a) it would make the Challenge extremely broad and there has been a clear push away from very broad challenges on this thread; and
(b) that would mean that we would be repeating a seventh Challenge. Honestly, I think we need to just give the Banned Films Challenge a go and if it ends up tanking, we can veto including it in the voting lineup next year.

Yes, we're adding both Mystery (in a merge) and Romance to the lineup over 60s/Animation. See OP.

Agreed about AU/NZ being held in the second half of the year to create more distance from the previous Challenge. Will add Russia/USSR to the January lineup. And yes, we can pair it up with Sci-fi/Fantasy.

@Roger

I haven't done a count, but Wikipedia's banned films from all around the world is quite extensive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_films

And that's hardly a comprehensive list. Check out this Australia themed banned list from zzzorf: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls021991143/

I would be tempted to allow any films that have been banned anywhere at any time. There would some fun history to explore with the Challenge - why the films were banned and so on. I'm assuming that this is what blueboybob had in mind when he suggested the Challenge in September.

Add in the Video Nasty movies and that's another 152 films to choose from.

Plus, we could decide to make the 110 films on the Dirk Controversial List also eligible for the Challenge.

The more I think about it, the more I think we should give the Banned/Nasty Challenge a go and see how it survives on its own terms. It received a lot of support after all and nobody questioned its viability during the nominating or voting stage.
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#69

Post by sol » November 5th, 2018, 9:39 am

Okay, I've experimented with placing the decade challenges into the Schedule with one month intervals (to allow for a genre) between them. Happy to take feedback on this. Also added in suggestions about Low IMDb Rating and Korea so far. We can still debate, discuss and change this though.

How does everyone feel about doing Conquering the World in January? Could be a great way to kick off the schedule on an international, wide-ranging note.
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#70

Post by zzzorf » November 5th, 2018, 9:57 am

sol wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 9:31 am

@Lakigigar

That coming-of-age list is awesome! :poshclap: I think if you make mention of it next year, it will definitely help to gain votes for the Challenge idea. There's over 1000 films in that list (so plenty to choose from) and no doubt other smaller lists would be floating around out there.



And that's hardly a comprehensive list. Check out this Australia themed banned list from zzzorf: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls021991143/

That is a great list, even helped me make a couple of checks I had missed in the coming-of-age genre due to not being on official lists. Lots of movies I would love to see, definitely coming back to it next time.


Oh my banned list, forgot all about it. I never got nowhere near finishing that. So many movies were banned in those original years of the ratings that I took a break from doing it and never got back to it. Will have to do so before a challenge happens.

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#71

Post by zzzorf » November 5th, 2018, 9:59 am

sol wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 9:39 am
How does everyone feel about doing Conquering the World in January? Could be a great way to kick off the schedule on an international, wide-ranging note.
How about Conquering the World in October. Gets a nice boost from Latin America and I wouldn't complain about watching horror's from all over the globe.

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#72

Post by sol » November 5th, 2018, 10:05 am

zzzorf wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 9:59 am
sol wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 9:39 am
How does everyone feel about doing Conquering the World in January? Could be a great way to kick off the schedule on an international, wide-ranging note.
How about Conquering the World in October. Gets a nice boost from Latin America and I wouldn't complain about watching horror's from all over the globe.
Well, we are trying to make doubles and triples harder (but not impossible) and fitting Conquering the World against an entire continent doesn't seem like the best way to do this.

The other option would be to have Conquering the World in December again (this is when it was run in 2017) as a summary challenge of sorts. Dunno. I prefer it as an introductory one, personally speaking. But I'm happy to go with what most people want.

We are going to have think carefully though about what to pair up with Horror theme-wise, since no matter what it is, it will be knocked. Maybe the Rosenbaum list since it received the third most votes after TSP21stC and Academy Awards.
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#73

Post by zzzorf » November 5th, 2018, 10:24 am

Some ideas for what is left:

Can we split all the various European challenges up throughout the year so we aren't jumping from one to another, say like Russia in Jan, Italy in March, France in June (and the possibility of joining it with the Cannes challenge?), Benelux in August, UK in September and Eastern Europe in December (or any similar order you like)

Do the same with Asia say Japan in Feb and China in July. This model leaves April for Australia

Why not put War between the 30's and 40's since WWII happened then, or on the flipside were to many movies from the 40's already to many war that we need to move it to the other slot?

I'ld put Unofficial in January to separate it from >400 and Low IMDb which too me are similar challenges.

I have already voiced my idea of combining Around the World with Horror and Latin America.

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#74

Post by sol » November 5th, 2018, 11:17 am

zzzorf wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 10:24 am
Why not put War between the 30's and 40's since WWII happened then
I absolutely love this idea. Let's give it a little longer and if nobody objects and I'll add it in - which will then auto-flick Romance in August - allowing us to have finished placing all the Genre and Decade Challenges. :)

Country-wise, I don't have many strong preferences and I am happy to go with almost all of your suggestions if other support them (or at least don't object to them). Laki wants Benelux in the first half of the year though.

Conquering the World and Horror though, that's sounds okay in principle, but then I think we woud need to shift Latin America elsewhere and fit in another country/region that is not especially well known for their horror movies. It definitely can't be Italy, France, UK, Japan or China (due to HK) and it also needs to a popular enough country/region that it won't suffer the fate of Iberia by being forced to compete against Horror. Latin America really seems like the only sensible option to me and as the Challenge that will encompass the most countries next year, pitching it against Conquering the World is going to lead to lots of easy double dipping, which we already said we wanted to make harder in 2019.

Oh, and I personally like the idea of Unofficial before the <400 Challenge in July as jeroeno has suggested since it all helps to feed into the board's biggest project (and the only Official List that this forum will ever get on the official site). But certainly I can see the case to place it in January if we don't want to begin the year on a Conquering the World note.

Another idea: what about Banned Films in December? Would provide variety with (I assume) limited overlap against the Documentary genre.
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#75

Post by Lakigigar » November 5th, 2018, 2:11 pm

Maybe Eastern Europe in november instead? Like ICM is going to organize an annual poll of directors in december, and they usually organize a second poll, so that could maybe be Eastern Europe? But we probably need to wait before they determined their poll schedule.

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#76

Post by sol » November 5th, 2018, 2:22 pm

Lakigigar wrote:
November 5th, 2018, 2:11 pm
But we probably need to wait before they determined their poll schedule.
I guess with most of the countries/regions we can only include them in preliminary form at the moment since the polls may make us want to change our mind. But let's try to knock the other options (theme & genre) on their head.

Currently zzzorf is suggesting:
  • War in March --- alongside DTC ---> for the aptness of being between 1930s and 1940s
  • Romance in August --- alongside <400 checks ---> since that's the only remaining genre spot
What I would suggest for the rest:
  • Conquering the World in January --- alongside Sci-Fi/Fantasy ---> as an apt opening challenge, promoting international cinema
  • In Competition at Cannes in June --- alongside 1950s ---> since by the 1st of June we will have found out the latest Palme d'Or winner
  • Unofficial in July --- alongside Mystery/Suspense/Thriller ---> as a lead-in to the <400 Challenge and subsequent 500<400 vote
  • Jonathan Rosenbaum Essentials in October --- alongside Horror ---> since we need something popular to compete against Horror
  • Banned Films/Video Nasty in December --- alongside Documentary ---> since the overlap will be minimal
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#77

Post by flavo5000 » November 5th, 2018, 2:35 pm

The only thing with banned films in December is that, especially with the emphasis on video nasties, it's very close to the horror challenge thematically. Cult/grindhouse was usually in the summer and offered a nice buffer so it wasn't wall to wall horror.

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#78

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 » November 5th, 2018, 2:39 pm

I rather agree with flavo. Having Banned Film/Video Nasty doesn't appeal to me in Christmas month, to be honest. Wonder how others feel about that. I particularly loved Conquering the World when it was last held in December. It made for a very interesting and rewarding way to bring the curtain down on a year. Would switching those two create too much potential overlap between Video Nasty and Sci-Fi/Fantasy for your taste?
That's all, folks!

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#79

Post by OldAle1 » November 5th, 2018, 2:45 pm

* also agree on banned/video nasty not being the best for December. And somebody up-thread mentioned combining it with Low Rating, which I'd echo; many of them are low-rated anyway, and those that aren't would give a nice alternative for people who want to do that challenge but don't want to watch nothing but shlock (perhaps a silly notion, but there are many silly notions around here).

* personally don't really like Low Rating alongside Noir - what, I'm going to have to choose? And really liked the former in January this past year. But I realize if one is trying NOT to give as many opportunities for triples & doubles...

* Romance in December would make more sense to me; it'd be lovely to get "credit" for watching holiday movies for once. But I'd imagine I'm in the extreme minority there, putting it out anyway.

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#80

Post by peeptoad » November 5th, 2018, 2:48 pm

I am open to any executive decision that's made on the scheduling...so I'll abide by whatever the Powers That Be decide on. I don't tend to double or triple dip on challenges anyway since I don't enjoy them as much and tend to watch less rather than more when I attempt it.

I do like the banned films challenge idea though, so I hope it can find a spot on the calendar (and it "won" a spot per the poll anyway). I would also prefer 60s over animation, but it looks like a decision has already been made there, which is fine. I also have no problem rolling mystery in with suspense/thriller if that's still open for discussion.

As for calendar placings just some random ideas-

Benelux could be July since there is a Belgian National Holiday July 21... or France for Bastille Day I suppose...
Romance in February? That's cliche (and I hate Valentine's day as a holiday), but... Chinese New Year is also February 5th, so that's another option.

:shrug:

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