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The OUT Challenge

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The OUT Challenge

#41

Post by xianjiro » November 9th, 2015, 11:14 pm

Well it looks like this one's going to get off slowly then. Here's my new suggestion - we use @brokenface's idea of combining the lists into a cross referenced list like

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/lgbt ... rokenface/

however, I'll need to pm @brokenface and ask if the two lesbian lists (and any subsequent lists that show up) can be added. Right now, only movies that are on three or more of the lists in my orginal message should show up.

Thoughts?

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#42

Post by xianjiro » November 9th, 2015, 11:16 pm

Just watched Kaboom - interesting little piece of sexual nihilism but it left me unfulfilled. :/

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#43

Post by xianjiro » November 10th, 2015, 2:01 am

@brokenface has updated the list

I've explained the current challenge in the original post.

So, how many of the films on The Cross Referenced LGBTQQIAAP Film List have you seen?

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#44

Post by brokenface » November 10th, 2015, 2:06 am

I've seen 105/290.

Not sure how much I'll participate in the challenge, but I did recently watch Victor Victoria which was good fun. Robert Preston stole the show.

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#45

Post by Kasparius » November 10th, 2015, 2:35 am

brokenface on Nov 9 2015, 07:06:13 PM wrote:I've seen 105/290.

Not sure how much I'll participate in the challenge, but I did recently watch Victor Victoria which was good fun. Robert Preston stole the show.
Love Preston and Victor Victoria

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#46

Post by 3eyes » November 10th, 2015, 4:00 am

I've seen 108 out of 290.

xianjiro, please clarify: Is the challenge limited to films on the cross-reference list?
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#47

Post by xianjiro » November 10th, 2015, 4:18 am

3eyes on Nov 9 2015, 09:00:42 PM wrote:I've seen 108 out of 290.

xianjiro, please clarify: Is the challenge limited to films on the cross-reference list?
For now, yes, we're just working on the cross-reference list. However, that shouldn't preclude one from watching movies that aren't on this list and unless it becomes unwieldy, feeling free to discuss, recommend, pan, whatever movies that are or aren't on our unofficial challenge list.

Especially when it comes to discussion, if enough people are saying, "You know, List X has all these cool (for this reason) films that aren't on any other list," then it would be worth adding a second list to the challenge. This can certainly go anywhere we the people want it to go, I'm just trying to get something moving for the LGBT... and supportive community.

What things would people like added to the challenge? We could have an unofficial movie of the month, for example. I'd love to hear what would make this a meaningful challenge to everyone who reads this thread, and I realize that many are already working on other challenges and lists, so I'm trying to find a balance between interesting and low-key. Hopefully this challenge will remain active for some time, so it'll be here when you finish that other challenge too. However, end of day/month/year, the important thing is for people to enjoy the discussion and the movies.

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#48

Post by xianjiro » November 10th, 2015, 4:26 am

Kasparius on Nov 9 2015, 07:35:30 PM wrote:
brokenface on Nov 9 2015, 07:06:13 PM wrote:I've seen 105/290.

Not sure how much I'll participate in the challenge, but I did recently watch Victor Victoria which was good fun. Robert Preston stole the show.
Love Preston and Victor Victoria
Wow! Victor/Victoria. Haven't seen that one in years. First time was on a trans- flight. You know, across the Atlantic! Preston was great and I like Andrews in the role, but for me, the big deal way back then was a big bloke like Karras admitting he liked the boys. I nearly plotzed there and then! What can I say? It gave me hope, and coming from a small city at the end of the Bible Belt, I was so keen to know that gay didn't mean 'married and in denial' or 'flaming' though I've come to be a lot more accepting in the 30+ years since.

Alas, while being a fun gender-bending parade for its time, watching it some years later, I found neither the scandal very salacious nor the picture as a whole much better than average. But it's still a bit of fun...Preston doing the Spanish number is so hard to forget. Was it "Lady from Spain"? :lol:
Last edited by xianjiro on November 10th, 2015, 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#49

Post by Kasparius » November 10th, 2015, 4:30 am

xianjiro on Nov 9 2015, 09:26:28 PM wrote:
Kasparius on Nov 9 2015, 07:35:30 PM wrote:
brokenface on Nov 9 2015, 07:06:13 PM wrote:I've seen 105/290.

Not sure how much I'll participate in the challenge, but I did recently watch Victor Victoria which was good fun. Robert Preston stole the show.
Love Preston and Victor Victoria
Wow! Victor/Victoria. Haven't seen that one in years. First time was on a trans- flight. You know, across the Atlantic! Preston was great and I like Andrews in the role, but for me, the big deal way back then was a big bloke like Karras admitting he liked the boys. I nearly plotzed there and then! What can I say? It gave me hope, and coming from a small city at the end of the Bible Belt, I was so keen to know that gay didn't mean 'married and in denial' or 'flaming' though I've come to be a lot more accepting in the 30+ years since.

Alas, while being a fun gender-bending parade for its time, watching it some years later, I found neither the scandal very salacious nor the picture as a whole much better than average. But it's still a bit of fun...Preston doing the Spanish number is so hard to forget. Was it "Lady from Spain"? :lol:
Yeah, Lady from Spain, the German original is really good too.

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#50

Post by Jay Mars » November 10th, 2015, 9:44 am

I've only seen 141/290. I feel like I need to turn in my gay card.

The most recent seen was Pariah (2011), a real gem.

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#51

Post by Jay Mars » November 10th, 2015, 10:04 am

Make that 142/290. I was looking through the list and realized I never checked An Early Frost, a movie I saw way back in the 80s, but still remember vividly.

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#52

Post by HVM » November 10th, 2015, 1:15 pm

Jay Mars on Nov 10 2015, 03:04:22 AM wrote:Make that 142/290. I was looking through the list and realized I never checked An Early Frost, a movie I saw way back in the 80s, but still remember vividly.
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#53

Post by xianjiro » November 10th, 2015, 11:12 pm

Hey, good going everyone, but how 'bout you HVM? And Kasparius never reported.

I'm almost embarrassed to say, I've only seen about 2/3rds of the list - yes, 193 out of 290.

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#54

Post by Kasparius » November 11th, 2015, 12:29 am

121/190, blame it on my straightness.

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#55

Post by Bobby Peru » November 11th, 2015, 12:38 am

123/290 so far.

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#56

Post by jvv » November 11th, 2015, 12:54 am

I've only seen 67/290. :blush:

Not going to join the challenge though, because I already have too many ongoing challenges I participate in.

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#57

Post by HVM » November 11th, 2015, 1:05 am

xianjiro on Nov 10 2015, 04:12:45 PM wrote:Hey, good going everyone, but how 'bout you HVM?
The last two times (read 100%) I signed up for a queer challenge something went wrong and I ended up with no time/energy to watch anything. I'm not trying my luck again (or at least not until the German challenge, i.e. my precious, is over)...
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#58

Post by kingink » November 11th, 2015, 10:32 am

I've seen 147/290 films.
I know that I'm not good with ongoing challenges because I have the tendency to ditch them after a while, but I have some of my unwatched movies from the list in my watchlist so I guess I could try to squeeze them in my chaotic viewing scedule.

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#59

Post by 3eyes » November 11th, 2015, 4:40 pm

Me too. I'm only an ally and too much of an anarchist to stick to that list. In the LBGT challenge last year, I'd stumble on something genderbending and report it. Period. Will do the same by this if it helps morale any.
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#60

Post by xianjiro » November 12th, 2015, 2:26 am

Well, I'm also 'chaotic' in my viewing - by design. I couldn't stand just watching horror or noir day after day. So in general, when I'm doing my DVD holds for a given week, I try to select from 12-15 different lists. However, given that I'm rather compulsive about two things on iCM - completing lists that are close and getting a bronze for as many lists as possible - I often forget to look at things that don't earn an official check and thus have ignored Queer Cinema for the last year and half that I've been active on iCM.

I know we all have different goals, but this challenge is about keeping Queer Cinema in our sights. I really hope people share titles and a bit of a reaction if they stumble across something that isn't on our list, especially newer films.

If I had the data gathering skills to put together some automated tool, it would be really cool to average ratings of people who care about Queer Cinema and produce an iCM Forum Top 100 LGBTQQIAAP Films. If we get a critical mass (don't know what that would be, honestly) I might see what can be done towards that end ala iCM Board's Top 1000 Highest Rated Feature Films.

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#61

Post by Kasparius » November 12th, 2015, 2:43 am

I don't really understand why we want to limit this challenge to one list, I think it's going to deter people from participating. Especially since a few of my favorites aren't on it, and some absolute dreck is.

I mean if I see a great film with LGBT themes, I should be able to post it here. Just my two cents.

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#62

Post by 3eyes » November 12th, 2015, 3:35 am

A. Mein Name ist Bach (2003) [guess I'll "letter" ones that aren't on The List.]

Just saw this - an aged JS Bach visits the court of Friedrich II of Prussia, whose gayness plays a role in the narrative. The subs on the KG rip appear to be a collaboration between a Spaniard and Mark Twain in "That awful German language" mode, so some familiarity with German is advised.
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#63

Post by xianjiro » November 12th, 2015, 5:22 am

Kasparius on Nov 11 2015, 07:43:16 PM wrote:I don't really understand why we want to limit this challenge to one list, I think it's going to deter people from participating. Especially since a few of my favorites aren't on it, and some absolute dreck is.

I mean if I see a great film with LGBT themes, I should be able to post it here. Just my two cents.
Post away! Absolutely! PLEASE! And please give a sense why you feel the way you do about a particular film. Any Queer related film (or TV series with a recurring LGBT... element or theme).

I'm sorry if pointing to a list feels limiting - it wasn't meant to be. However, no one really stepped up and offered suggestions which lists they wanted to include in the challenge and there wasn't really a consensus towards 'let's just watching anything that fits the general idea of TBLG... interests, but consider it fair game. And frankly, I thought a list - any list, and I thought creating our own list that included a movie that was on three other lists was a decent compromise in the interim ( :thumbsup: brokenface) - would give a place to start from. Just from the discussion elsewhere about LGBT... lists I knew nothing would be 'perfect.' So I bunted the best way I knew how. We could easily redo the cross reference to include everything included in all the lists we know about, but I'm not sure that will help on the dreck front - and need I remind? one person's dreck is another's found treasure.

I'm sorry if people think I've been too decisive in handling this. I will state that I tried, as best I could, to channel real frustration (bordering on rage) away from the clearly futile, nonproductive 1001 reasons why an LGBT... will have to wait forever for official adoption on iCM. Instead I tried to get SOMETHING positive moving forward in the hope that maybe interest will grow over time. Unfortunately the disconnect between iCM and this forum is broad enough that people just exploring iCM will miss out on Queer cinema completely since it's currently buried. If I had come to iCM just looking for Queer cinema, I would have left quickly - I didn't because it met other needs I had and after spending months getting used to it, I started to find the big piece I felt was missing. But alas, I recognize that others will have the same problem, walk away, and no one will really give a flip.

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#64

Post by Kasparius » November 12th, 2015, 5:27 am

I think having as many lists (that can be used as a guide line) in the OP as possible would be great, but just for the sake of getting more interest in this challenge, I think it would be best if we just allow any LGBT themed (within reason) film to be part of the challenge.

Especially since there are new ones coming out (no pun intended) all the time. I know Carol and The Danish Girl are being released, for instance, and maybe people will watch those and can use this thread to spark a conversation.

P.S. I saw a trailer for Carol, by the way, and it looks gorgeous.
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#65

Post by xianjiro » November 12th, 2015, 5:30 am

3eyes on Nov 11 2015, 08:35:02 PM wrote:A. Mein Name ist Bach (2003) [guess I'll "letter" ones that aren't on The List.]

Just saw this - an aged JS Bach visits the court of Friedrich II of Prussia, whose gayness plays a role in the narrative. The subs on the KG rip appear to be a collaboration between a Spaniard and Mark Twain in "That awful German language" mode, so some familiarity with German is advised.
Sounds interesting though I see it hasn't been particularly highly rated on IMDb. Can't say I expect to see it since it's not been released in North America that I can tell and I haven't yet been motivated to explore KG.

I try not to complain when things aren't released in North America, but Lilja4-ever is a great example as well as that one from S Korea with the guy on the island - can't remember the name off the top of my head. Anyway, I was still able to get both through the library so it's really a rare film I can't get that way.

But Mein Name ist Bach (2003) will likely remain on the 'can't get' list... :(

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#66

Post by 3eyes » November 12th, 2015, 6:42 am

xianjiro, I appreciate your frustration and applaud your efforts to do something about it. An ongoing OUT challenge strikes me as the right way to go for now. (Lots of people have started challenges in the past out of similar frustrations.) Now that you've got the ball rolling, perhaps it's time to chill and see how it develops.

I do agree with Kas in feeling the challenge should be more open. As I said earlier, I'm more likely to report something I stumble on than go out of my way to watch a film on an official list.
The one I just posted seems to me one of those borderline cases which I assume would be worthy of mention without necessarily belonging on an LGBT list. (The fact that one of the main characters is gay had nothing to do with my reason for choosing to watch it.)
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#67

Post by Jay Mars » November 12th, 2015, 9:25 am

Not on the list, but I agree with Kas and 3eyes about keeping it broad. So here's my first:

1. L'armée du salut (2013) - Abdellah Taia's adaptation of his semi-autobiographical novel about growing up gay in Morocco and his later move to Europe, finding a new freedom and new challenges. Taia never lets us get close to the film's Abdellah emotionally, but that's probably the point. He learned to smother every emotion and hide every desire so well that no one could get close and keeping the audience out continues that, though it's a bit problematic for a film goer. I can see how many viewer will be put off by the slow pacing and absent plot. Nevertheless I really liked it and thought it was directed very well. I've always admired Taia from what I read about him, though I've never read anything he wrote. I think it's time to remedy that.
Last edited by Jay Mars on November 12th, 2015, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#68

Post by xianjiro » November 12th, 2015, 10:31 pm

Have updated the OP.

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#69

Post by 3eyes » November 12th, 2015, 10:54 pm

Splendid, xianjiro. Thanks!
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#70

Post by 3eyes » November 14th, 2015, 4:54 am

B. Die Stille nach dem Schuß / Legend of Rita (Ger 2000)

Has a couple of brief lesbian scenes.
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#71

Post by Kasparius » November 26th, 2015, 7:30 am

Lesbian double feature:

1. Grandma (2015) Paul Weitz (5/10)

Lili Tomlin plays a selfish writer who can't get over the death of her life partner. Unfortunately the writing is pretty abysmal and clichéed.

2. Carol (2015) Todd Haynes (9.5/10)

Probably Todd Haynes greatest movie, absolutely ravishing. Cate Blanchett and Rooney Mara are perfect. I need to watch this again.

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#72

Post by Fergenaprido » December 1st, 2015, 5:30 pm

Okay, a month late, but here are some more lists, including a new one that just got published last month.

I've seen 131/290 on the current cross-reference list. Not great, but it's not all of the queer films I've seen, and I've also seen a LOT of queer shorts which don't have any representation in the list.

I think I'll also create my own two lists; one for queer features and one for gay or queer shorts.

I have a spreadsheet for all my films, and a separate page for queer films.

Here are the lists that I follow. There are a number of well-known lists that I ignore, mainly because they either are from random sources (aggregates of ratings on RYM, for example) or are too wishy-washy with their definitions of 'queer'.

Tier 1 - Essential lists
The Backlot Top 100 Greatest Gay Movies** (plus older versions when it was AfterElton):
AfterEllen Best Lesbian/Bi Movies
The Backlot Top Gay Docs (the icm list is a combined list; the 25 docs are #s 101-125)
The Advocate Top 175 Essential Films of All Time for LGBT Viewers**
Metro Weekly Gay Films Everyone Should See**

Tier 2 - Best of lists from queer sources
Out Magazine's 50 Essential Gay Movies**
Autostraddle's The 100 Best Lesbian Movies of All Time
Time Out's The 50 best gay movies: the best in LGBT film-making (new in November)
Indiewire's 50 Most Important LGBT Films Since Stonewall (plus older version)

Tier 3 - Best of lists from non-queer sources
Total Film's 50 Best Gay Movies**
Flavorwire's 50 Essential LGBT Films**
Slant Magazine's 50 Essential LGBT Films
Awards Daily's 101 Years of Gay Cinema (Most Important)

Tier 4 - Interesting lists but not billed as essential/best
101 Must-See Movies for Gay Men**
Berlin Film Festival Teddy Award
Huffington Post Uplifting LGBT**

(I'll link to the icm lists tomorrow) icm links added. I need to add the Huffington Post list to icm still.

Other lists that I've watchlisted, but don't track my progress in my spreadsheet
The Celluloid Closet: The Book
The Celluloid Closet: The Documentary
The Internet film club: February 2014 LGBT Cinema watch list
Erik's Recommended GLBT Films
Top 150 GLBT Films (by Joschi) - another aggregate list similar to brokenface's; it includes all of the lists above marked with ** plus Rateyourmusic's Top 50 Queer Cinema
Top 100 Homosexual Themes Movies (by chantana) - earlier version of this list by same person under an older username
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#73

Post by Fergenaprido » December 1st, 2015, 5:34 pm

And my results for the challenge. I'll include queer films that aren't on the list (marked by letters instead of numbers)

a. Magic Mike XXL (2015) - 7.6 - better than the first, suprisingly, though not really a queer film, even though it has some queer characters, but definitely made with queer folks in mind ;)
b. Gerontophilia (2013) - 5.6 - interesting concept from Bruce La Bruce, but baaaaaaad acting
1. Sunset Blvd. (1950) - 8.0 - sure, it's a great film, but it's not queer at all, even if Artie's really really friendly with the lead (whose name I already forgot)
c. Cowboys & Angels (2003) - 7.4 - average gay/straight bromance set in Limerick, Ireland

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#74

Post by Wise Jake » December 2nd, 2015, 5:21 am

Count me in, also. I've actually got a lot of LGBT-themed films to watch in the near future. So we're not just sticking to the cross reference list anymore (which I've only seen 47/290 on, by the way)?

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#75

Post by xianjiro » December 3rd, 2015, 8:47 am

Thanks Fergenaprido! I'll update the OP in the next day or two. I did realize recently that I hadn't included the Celluloid Closet (think it was the book's list) as well. Since it's just a compendium of lists, I plan to add all and then kindly ask Brokenface to update the cross referenced list for those of us interested in that as well.

EDIT 4 Dec 15: I've added 7 lists to the original post as well as two poll questions. While I know most people like the the wide open challenge, I'm also curious if others have a preference - especially a year or two down the road as new people join in.
Last edited by xianjiro on December 5th, 2015, 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#76

Post by xianjiro » December 5th, 2015, 4:47 am

We now have 30 LGBTQ... lists identified on iCM!

Besides adding 7 new lists to the original post, I've added two poll questions.

So, with that many lists, it makes sense to do some sort of grouping - thus the second poll question. I'd like your feedback. So far I'm thinking that converting the URLs to linked titles makes sense. But what are your thoughts on grouping or ordering the titles after that's done? I'll leave this question open for the next week (until the weekend of the 12th) and then redo the OP accordingly.

BTW, I haven't just copied and pasted Fergenaprido's list for two reasons: First, because I can't. Second, with Fergenaprido's additions, the list in the OP is longer (than Fergenaprido's list). But Fergenaprido's grouping makes some sense to me. We could easily adopt the tier method and just group our additions as makes sense.

Thoughts?

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#77

Post by xianjiro » December 14th, 2015, 6:05 am

Sorry, occupied elsewhere. Will change the links to titles relatively soon - maybe later in the week.

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#78

Post by Fergenaprido » December 21st, 2015, 7:54 pm

d. Vic + Flo ont vu un ours (2013) - 7.6 - nice look at an older lesbian and her partner; takes a dark twist toward the end. Worth a look.
2. Contracorriente [Undertow] (2009) - 8.2 - somehow I was not aware of the major plot point before seeing the film, but it was really good. An excellent piece of magical realism that shies away from a typical fairytale ending.
e. After [Time Off] - 6-7ish - not sure if it's a long short film or a short feature film, but I wish it had been longer. Just long enough to construct a solid story with interesting characters and a minimal plot, but it left me wanting more.
Films seen for the OUT ChallengeShow
a. Magic Mike XXL (2015) - 7.6 - better than the first, suprisingly, though not really a queer film, even though it has some queer characters, but definitely made with queer folks in mind ;)
b. Gerontophilia (2013) - 5.6 - interesting concept from Bruce La Bruce, but baaaaaaad acting
1. Sunset Blvd. (1950) - 8.0 - sure, it's a great film, but it's not queer at all, even if Artie's really really friendly with the lead (whose name I already forgot)
c. Cowboys & Angels (2003) - 7.4 - average gay/straight bromance set in Limerick, Ireland

Wise Jake
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#79

Post by Wise Jake » January 2nd, 2016, 9:20 pm

1. Polyester (1981)
2. Female Trouble (1974)
3. Jubilee (1978)
4. Blue (1993)
5. Mulholland Dr. (2001)
6. Brokeback Mountain (2005)

Here's my first batch of films. I mostly just used the lists in the OP as my criteria - with the exception of Jubilee, which I decided to include because it is on the Criterion Collection's Out at Criterion list and was made by a gay director.

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Fergenaprido
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#80

Post by Fergenaprido » January 2nd, 2016, 11:09 pm

3. Un chant d'amour (1950 short) - 7.4 - intriguing, to say the least, but I feel like there's not as much reciprocity of feelings between the two cellmates as reviews would have you believe.
f. Performance Anxiety (2012 short) - 7.2 - I'd been wanting to see this for a few years since they first released the trailer... it was all right. An interesting look at a sensitive topic for straight men :D
g. Finding Dad (2012 short) - 6.6 - seems like it's more of a teaser trailer than a short itself. I think it's supposed to be a feature film that keeps being delayed? Not sure if it held my interest enough to make me want to see the full thing.
Films seen for the OUT ChallengeShow
a. Magic Mike XXL (2015) - 7.6 - better than the first, suprisingly, though not really a queer film, even though it has some queer characters, but definitely made with queer folks in mind ;)
b. Gerontophilia (2013) - 5.6 - interesting concept from Bruce La Bruce, but baaaaaaad acting
1. Sunset Blvd. (1950) - 8.0 - sure, it's a great film, but it's not queer at all, even if Artie's really really friendly with the lead (whose name I already forgot)
c. Cowboys & Angels (2003) - 7.4 - average gay/straight bromance set in Limerick, Ireland
d. Vic + Flo ont vu un ours (2013) - 7.6 - nice look at an older lesbian and her partner; takes a dark twist toward the end. Worth a look.
2. Contracorriente [Undertow] (2009) - 8.2 - somehow I was not aware of the major plot point before seeing the film, but it was really good. An excellent piece of magical realism that shies away from a typical fairytale ending.
e. After [Time Off] - 6-7ish - not sure if it's a long short film or a short feature film, but I wish it had been longer. Just long enough to construct a solid story with interesting characters and a minimal plot, but it left me wanting more.

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