The OUT Challenge

xianjiro · #1

Edited 9 July 2018:Information on our former polls

Edited 3 Jan 2016: Per current poll data, list URLs have been replaced with List Titles and reordered by iCM alphanumeric ordering logic. Also, Out at Criterion list added on 4 Jan.

New lists added 4 Dec 2015! You might also like to view the list grouped by Fergenaprido

Edited 12 Nov 2015: Watch any movie with an LGBTQQIAAP theme, character, motif, whatever and then report back what think. It's all fair game - anything goes. This is an ongoing, informal, open challenge meant to encourage anyone interested in LGBTQQIAAP cinema to watch more LGBTQQIAAP films. We'd especially love to hear about new or lesser known LGBTQQIAAP films you find - especially ones NOT included in any of the lists below.

If you need some ideas or like to work from a list, consider LGBT List Cross-Reference kindly compiled by forum user @brokenface. It cross references all identified LGBTQQIAAP lists (listed below) and includes movies that appear in three or more lists. Thanks for doing that for us @brokenface!

Let me know if there's anything else you'd like to do with this challenge, okay?

Also, don't hesitate to share other lists you find.

Our un/official OUT List: LGBT List Cross-Reference

Identified LGBTQQIAAP lists (in alphanumeric order by iCM's ordering logic):

Also of note:

Best Lesbian Flicks (should this be included above? it is a personal list)
Best Queer Film (should this be included above? it is a personal list)
Boys Life short films (should this be included above?)
Favorite Lesbian Movies (should this be included above? it is a personal list)
How to Be Gay (should this be included above?)
LGBT (should this be included above? it is a personal list)
LGBT (should this be included above? it is a personal list)
LGBT Movies (should this be included above? it is a personal list)
LGBT Movies (should this be included above? it is a personal list)
Queer/Art/Film (not included since this list includes films that inspired queer artists and doesn't necessarily include queer themed works)
Queer Films on Official iCM Lists (should this be included above?)
The BFI 30 Best LGBT Films of All Time (should this be included above?)
Top 150 GLBT Films (aggregate list of some lists included above - see this post)
Trans and non-binary portrayals (should this be included above? it is a personal list)

Kasparius · #2

How do we define films that are eligible for this challenge? Is a film with a brief gay scene acceptable, a film loved by the gay community?, how about a film directed by a LGBT director that has nothing to do with LGBT themes (example: The Cool World directed by Shirley Clarke, or films directed by Lana Wachowski)?

xianjiro · #3

Kasparius on Oct 29 2015, 01:15:23 PM wrote:How do we define films that are eligible for this challenge? Is a film with a brief gay scene acceptable, a film loved by the gay community?, how about a film directed by a LGBT director that has nothing to do with LGBT themes (example: The Cool World directed by Shirley Clarke, or films directed by Lana Wachowski)?

Good question! So what do people think?

Kasparius · #4

xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 01:21:10 PM wrote:
Kasparius on Oct 29 2015, 01:15:23 PM wrote:How do we define films that are eligible for this challenge? Is a film with a brief gay scene acceptable, a film loved by the gay community?, how about a film directed by a LGBT director that has nothing to do with LGBT themes (example: The Cool World directed by Shirley Clarke, or films directed by Lana Wachowski)?
Good question! So what do people think?

I think LGBT directors (and writers too) should be automatically accepted, same with films loved by the LGBT community, like Wizard of Oz, or Auntie Mame. However a random gay scene is more problematic.

3eyes · #5

It's helpful to scout out all the relevant ICM lists, but why choose among them? In case there are some that have too many films that don't qualify? I agree that that's a slippery subject.

Aside: I just got out my old TLA guide from 2005 --LGBT was one of TLA's areas of specialization, but I couldn't find anything resembling "of Gay interest" in the theme index. I'm pretty sure some of the earlier editions did have such a listing, though. And/or the store had a LGBT section. TLA did publish some separate gay film guides, which included more porn than was available in the store.

xianjiro · #6

@3eyes: Could you remind me what TLA stands for? Thanks.

@Kasparius: Like the idea of including GLBT... writers and directors. Do we know of any lists to that end or is that something we would need to compile ourselves?

I've said it elsewhere, and while it wasn't Palahniuk's intent to write a gay novel, viewing Fight Club (and the movie tracks pretty closely to the book) from the queer perspective provides different insight. I'm not going to say what I think that is since it's only tangentially related to the topic, but it's an example of something *I* would include in a list of LBGT... cinema because of its themes.

brokenface · #7

I used ICM enhanced to cross-reference all the lists in opening post. It's a quick and dirty method to produce a list which shows which films show up most commonly across all the lists. Might be useful reference, anyhow:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/lgbt ... rokenface/

I restricted to those appearing on 3+ lists. Could extend it out to 2+ (454 films)

Kasparius · #8

xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 02:42:00 PM wrote: @Kasparius: Like the idea of including GLBT... writers and directors. Do we know of any lists to that end or is that something we would need to compile ourselves?

Well there is this for starters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_directors

xianjiro · #9

brokenface on Oct 29 2015, 02:54:11 PM wrote:I used ICM enhanced to cross-reference all the lists in opening post. It's a quick and dirty method to produce a list which shows which films show up most commonly across all the lists. Might be useful reference, anyhow:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/lgbt ... rokenface/

I restricted to those appearing on 3+ lists. Could extend it out to 2+ (454 films)

Cool - thanks!

edit: my new favourite LBGT... movie list to work off of no matter what happens

xianjiro · #10

Kasparius on Oct 29 2015, 03:29:58 PM wrote:
xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 02:42:00 PM wrote: @Kasparius: Like the idea of including GLBT... writers and directors. Do we know of any lists to that end or is that something we would need to compile ourselves?
Well there is this for starters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_directors

That's quite a list! What about this: to whatever list(s) of movies we decide to work with we add a director each month - and here only for the sake of example - Xavier Dolan in November, Terence Davies in December, Dorothy Arzner in January, etc... Just brainstorming.

Kasparius · #11

xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 03:49:45 PM wrote:
Kasparius on Oct 29 2015, 03:29:58 PM wrote:
xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 02:42:00 PM wrote: @Kasparius: Like the idea of including GLBT... writers and directors. Do we know of any lists to that end or is that something we would need to compile ourselves?
Well there is this for starters:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_directors
That's quite a list! What about this: to whatever list(s) of movies we decide to work with we add a director each month - and here only for the sake of example - Xavier Dolan in November, Terence Davies in December, Dorothy Arzner in January, etc... Just brainstorming.

You mean like a "This month, spotlight on R.W. Fassbinder" type deal, but where people can still watch whatever else they want? Sounds good.

xianjiro · #12

Kasparius on Oct 29 2015, 03:53:57 PM wrote:clipped

You mean like a "This month, spotlight on R.W. Fassbinder" type deal, but where people can still watch whatever else they want? Sounds good.

Yeah. Exactly. What you said.

Kasparius · #13

We could debate this till kingdom come, but for instance a film like My Favorite Wife, starring Randolph Scott and Cary Grant and featuring a scene where Cary is clearly drooling over Randy is not technically a LGBT film, but the fact that they were lovers for years kind of makes this film a LGBT film.

3eyes · #14

xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 02:42:00 PM wrote:@3eyes: Could you remind me what TLA stands for? Thanks.

Sorry, local reference I guess. I live near Philly's Gayborhood and the TLA (Theater of the Living Arts) was a repertory movie theater when we came to PHilly in the 70s. In the 80s it reverted to some sort of stage venue with a spinoff video store. The latter specialized in gay and foreign /arthouse movies, and ended up with several quite large stores in the Philly area and at least one in New York. I don't know how well known they were beyond our corner of the US, but here they were an institution. Their catalogs/movie guides were quite massive and I still refer to mine. They didn't do very well with transitioning to DVD, and Netflix eventually did them in.

xianjiro · #15

3eyes on Oct 29 2015, 06:08:52 PM wrote:
xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 02:42:00 PM wrote:@3eyes: Could you remind me what TLA stands for? Thanks.
Sorry, local reference I guess. I live near Philly's Gayborhood and the TLA (Theater of the Living Arts) was a repertory movie theater when we came to PHilly in the 70s. In the 80s it reverted to some sort of stage venue with a spinoff video store. The latter specialized in gay and foreign /arthouse movies, and ended up with several quite large stores in the Philly area and at least one in New York. I don't know how well known they were beyond our corner of the US, but here they were an institution. Their catalogs/movie guides were quite massive and I still refer to mine. They didn't do very well with transitioning to DVD, and Netflix eventually did them in.

Thanks. Didn't think you meant TLA Releasing though I think they might be related since the website says they have offices in Philadelphia and London.

xianjiro · #16

Kasparius on Oct 29 2015, 04:11:25 PM wrote:We could debate this till kingdom come, but for instance a film like My Favorite Wife, starring Randolph Scott and Cary Grant and featuring a scene where Cary is clearly drooling over Randy is not technically a LGBT film, but the fact that they were lovers for years kind of makes this film a LGBT film.

Just looked it up on iCM and it's not on any of the LBGT... lists, so now all we need is a catchy lists name and a place for the list to live. We can start suggesting/collecting titles if there is interest from forum members.

3eyes · #17

xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 06:49:16 PM wrote:
3eyes on Oct 29 2015, 06:08:52 PM wrote:
xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 02:42:00 PM wrote:@3eyes: Could you remind me what TLA stands for? Thanks.
Sorry, local reference I guess. I live near Philly's Gayborhood and the TLA (Theater of the Living Arts) was a repertory movie theater when we came to PHilly in the 70s. In the 80s it reverted to some sort of stage venue with a spinoff video store. The latter specialized in gay and foreign /arthouse movies, and ended up with several quite large stores in the Philly area and at least one in New York. I don't know how well known they were beyond our corner of the US, but here they were an institution. Their catalogs/movie guides were quite massive and I still refer to mine. They didn't do very well with transitioning to DVD, and Netflix eventually did them in.
Thanks. Didn't think you meant TLA Releasing though I think they might be related since the website says they have offices in Philadelphia and London.

Ha! So they are still in business. I recall that after DVD came along they were getting into releasing - I think Bye bye Brazil was an early one. Thanks for the link!

(Not my job to figure out if there might be an ICM list here.)

xianjiro · #18

3eyes on Oct 29 2015, 09:56:12 PM wrote:clipped

(Not my job to figure out if there might be an ICM list here.)

quick search on iCM for "TLA" didn't show anything - but I know distributor lists aren't popular with some of the mods. Also, not sure how well known TLA Releasing is. I just know that brand from DVDs - but didn't think that was what you initially were referring to. However, they and Wolfe are distributors I connect with queer cinema. I think both New Yorker and Strand Releasing have LBGT... titles as well. Of course there are others, but before queer went mainstream, there were only a handful of distributors who'd touch the films, so those are the names I think of.

Pretentious Hipster · #19

Just here to drop off a recommendation: https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/el+ ... n+limites/

Jay Mars · #20

Personally, I appreciate lists of movies that deal with LGBT issues directly rather than a mix with campy movies we supposedly love. I do love The Wizard of Oz and Auntie Mame (and Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? and Mildred Pierce and so on), but I've never felt like they should have a place on LGBT lists. But, as with all the other lists on this site, I know it comes down to mass consensus and I may be in the minority on this. Just wanted to throw my two cents in about it though.

xianjiro · #21

Thanks to both @Ettinauer226XL and @Jay_Mars - for the recommend and for the two cents. Appreciated!

One of the reasons I like the 'recommendation' of more than one list is that we can have our cake and they can eat it too. Those who want camp can snap and sing along. Those that want - and I'm intentionally deciding NOT to try and describe or list other wants because I neither want to limit or alienate - will hopefully find it there as well.

I'm just hoping (and trying) to find a communal way to celebrate the cinema that is important to LGBTQQIAAP people - with all its diversity. And yes, I do mean the community AND the cinema!

iCheckMovies · #22

xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 01:04:02 PM wrote:So, what did I forget or miss????

You're missing these lesbian lists:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/afte ... iedearest/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/auto ... me/vzionn/

monty · #23

Kasparius on Oct 29 2015, 04:11:25 PM wrote:We could debate this till kingdom come, but for instance a film like My Favorite Wife, starring Randolph Scott and Cary Grant and featuring a scene where Cary is clearly drooling over Randy is not technically a LGBT film, but the fact that they were lovers for years kind of makes this film a LGBT film.

Fun fact for you:

Bert Granet, for “My Favorite Wife” recalled Cary and Randolfs unusual behavior on set:
“We shot the pool sequence at the Huntington Hotel in Pasadena. Cary and Randy Scott arrived as a pair and, to the total astonishment of myself, the director, and the ultra-macho crew, instead of taking separate suites moved into the same room together. Everyone looked at everyone else. It seemed hardly believable.”

Also,
The maître d' at the Beverly Hillcrest Hotel saw both actors in the 1970s, sitting in the back of the restaurant, long after the place had emptied. Cary Grant and Randolph Scott were sitting alone, quietly holding hands.

funkybusiness · #24

http://www.advocate.com/news/2009/01/05 ... e?page=0,0

Grant and Scott lived together for years, off and on.

Kasparius · #25

Probably the most beautiful couple of all time.

funkybusiness · #26

Kasparius on Oct 30 2015, 06:37:18 PM wrote:Probably the most beautiful couple of all time.

legit.

3eyes · #27

xianjiro on Oct 30 2015, 05:22:39 PM wrote:Thanks to both @Ettinauer226XL and @Jay_Mars - for the recommend and for the two cents. Appreciated!

One of the reasons I like the 'recommendation' of more than one list is that we can have our cake and they can eat it too. Those who want camp can snap and sing along. Those that want - and I'm intentionally deciding NOT to try and describe or list other wants because I neither want to limit or alienate - will hopefully find it there as well.

I'm just hoping (and trying) to find a communal way to celebrate the cinema that is important to LGBTQQIAAP people - with all its diversity. And yes, I do mean the community AND the cinema!

And (as an interested ally) thank you for taking the initiative, xianjiro!

Pretentious Hipster · #28

I can't find too many links on it, but if it's true that Rock Hudson and Anthony Perkins were together, then that's hot

Kasparius · #29

Ettinauer226XL on Oct 30 2015, 06:44:48 PM wrote:I can't find too many links on it, but if it's true that Rock Hudson and Anthony Perkins were together, then that's hot

Not as hot as Cary/Randy though. I don't really dig Tony's looks.

xianjiro · #30

mjf314 on Oct 30 2015, 06:17:44 PM wrote:
xianjiro on Oct 29 2015, 01:04:02 PM wrote:So, what did I forget or miss????
You're missing these lesbian lists:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/afte ... iedearest/
https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/auto ... me/vzionn/

Hey thanks for catching those! I've added them to my favorites and to the list above.

@brokenface: How hard is it to add these other lists to https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/lgbt ... rokenface/ ?

It might be better to wait for any other lists - I make no promises to having favorited them all.

xianjiro · #31

Here's a documentary wherein gays, lesbians, and possibly bisexuals, figure prominently. It's currently on no lists.

https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/flag+wars/

jvv · #32

Here's a documentary about transsexuals that is on no lists:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/i+am+a+woman+now/

xianjiro · #33

I wish we had a like or cool or thanks button on here. Thanks @jvv! On the watchlist.

3eyes · #34

I guess Flesh and the Devil (1926) isn't on any of these lists.

Fergenaprido · #35

I'll try and post a bunch of stuff here this week. I'm working remotely, so I don't have the distractions of other meetings, so I should have more free time to watch movies and post things. I have a collection of LGBT lists I'm working on as well, most of which I think are already listed above but I'll take a closer look later.

3eyes · #36

Are we posting things yet? Just happened on this TV episode:

Murdoch Mysteries: 'Til Death Do Us Part (Canada 2008, S1 Ep 5)

Set in late 19th-century Toronto. Seems anachronistically PC to me, but fun nevertheless.

xianjiro · #37

3eyes on Oct 30 2015, 10:44:44 PM wrote:I guess Flesh and the Devil (1926) isn't on any of these lists.

I've already seen it, so no use putting it on my watchlist - don't remember it though...

xianjiro · #38

Fergenaprido on Nov 1 2015, 03:44:03 PM wrote:I'll try and post a bunch of stuff here this week. I'm working remotely, so I don't have the distractions of other meetings, so I should have more free time to watch movies and post things. I have a collection of LGBT lists I'm working on as well, most of which I think are already listed above but I'll take a closer look later.

Would love to see some new lists - at this point, my suggestion would be that we discussion which ones we like and which we don't before voting on some for our unofficial challenge. But this is as good a place as any to share things.

xianjiro · #39

So, discussion has waned...anyone interested in this challenge?

Kasparius · #40

Sure, should make it ongoing.