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World Cup, Season 3, Match Final: Japan vs USA (Apr 14th)

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#41

Post by Mario Gaborović »

blocho wrote: April 5th, 2019, 3:49 am Does anyone keep a breakdown of stats from all three seasons of world cup? I'm talking about records for each country, decade, runtime, directors, or any other categories. If not, I might try to put something together.
I have all the countries' & directors' performances so far, .xls which I keep on my mediafire account. I didn't plan to release it any time soon but if you want me to, I could.

It's basically a "all-time table". The lesser data (decade performances, participation records, etc) could easily be amounted as well, if you want.
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#42

Post by blocho »

Mario Gaborović wrote: April 5th, 2019, 10:37 am
blocho wrote: April 5th, 2019, 3:49 am Does anyone keep a breakdown of stats from all three seasons of world cup? I'm talking about records for each country, decade, runtime, directors, or any other categories. If not, I might try to put something together.
I have all the countries' & directors' performances so far, .xls which I keep on my mediafire account. I didn't plan to release it any time soon but if you want me to, I could.

It's basically a "all-time table". The lesser data (decade performances, participation records, etc) could easily be amounted as well, if you want.
That would be great.
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#43

Post by Mario Gaborović »

blocho wrote: April 5th, 2019, 2:28 pm
Mario Gaborović wrote: April 5th, 2019, 10:37 am
blocho wrote: April 5th, 2019, 3:49 am Does anyone keep a breakdown of stats from all three seasons of world cup? I'm talking about records for each country, decade, runtime, directors, or any other categories. If not, I might try to put something together.
I have all the countries' & directors' performances so far, .xls which I keep on my mediafire account. I didn't plan to release it any time soon but if you want me to, I could.

It's basically a "all-time table". The lesser data (decade performances, participation records, etc) could easily be amounted as well, if you want.
That would be great.
Ok then after this cup is over I'll release all the stats.
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#44

Post by matthewscott8 »

Seen both already

1. Attack
2. Nobi
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#45

Post by pitchorneirda »

1. Attack (USA) - 4/10
2. Nobi (Japan) - 4/10
"Art is like a fire, it is born from the very thing it burns" - Jean-Luc Godard
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#46

Post by Nathan Treadway »

1. Nobi
2. Attack
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#47

Post by monty »

pitchorneirda wrote: April 5th, 2019, 10:59 pm 1. Attack (USA) - 4/10
2. Nobi (Japan) - 4/10
Interesting scores - would you care to elaborate, please?
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#48

Post by pitchorneirda »

monty wrote: April 6th, 2019, 12:54 am
pitchorneirda wrote: April 5th, 2019, 10:59 pm 1. Attack (USA) - 4/10
2. Nobi (Japan) - 4/10
Interesting scores - would you care to elaborate, please?
For Attack, I think the characters (especially Capt. Cooney and maybe Lt. Costa to a lesser extent) are poorly written. The situations are very realistic but the dialogues and actions within these situations are often mediocre and off-putting (to me).

As for Nobi, the lead performance from Eiji Funakoshi is kind of bland, which makes it hard for me to be empathetic with the characters. I also found the narrative (almost non-narrative, in this case) structure confusing. And what is disappointing from Ichikawa is how the movie stayed very down to earth all along, except for one only scene that I really liked when Tamura encounters a man sitting at the foot of a tree, looking at the sun and telling him "The earth is revolving, you see. That is why the sun sinks, sonny boy"

I didn't dislike either of the stories but I'm not very fond of action-driven films which don't develop the full complexity of their characters.
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#49

Post by jvv »

1. Attack (USA) - 8/10
2. Nobi (Japan) - 7.5/10
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#50

Post by joachimt »

Image Nobi: 13
Image Attack: 6
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#51

Post by edward5 »

1. 野火 Nobi. 8/10.
2. Attack! 6.5/10.
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#52

Post by Smoover »

1. Nobi 7.5/10
2. Attack 7/10
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#53

Post by Lilarcor »

1. Attack
2. Nobi

Great match, great WC!
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#54

Post by clemmetarey »

1. Nobi (1959) 8/10
2. Attack (1956) 6/10

A great match to end this worldcup on.
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#55

Post by klaus78 »

1. Nobi (Japan) 8/10
2. Attack (USA) 7/10
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#56

Post by Armoreska »

The match is not great. Japan's too OP here. But the movies are.

i voted for Japan in each match
Sanbiki no Samurai 9+ - the best watch from world cups - won an epic battle
Buta To Gunkan 7- - another epic battle
Kawaita hana 7-
Chiyari Fuji 7+ - another epic battle with an extension
USA: 1st,3rd,1st,1st,2nd

Nobi 9
Attack 8-
he or A. or Armo or any

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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: ELIO PETRI,
Spoiler
ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, Yasujiro Ozu, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#57

Post by Muellwind »

1. Attack
2. Nobi
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#58

Post by tommy_leazaq »

Just as I expected,

1. Nobi - 9/10
2. Attack - 7/10

Attack was good but not good enough to beat one of my all time favorites.
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#59

Post by Renegade »

1. Nobi
2. Attack
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#60

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Image Nobi: 20
Image Attack: 8

3 days left. And the whole tournament is over.
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#61

Post by Armoreska »

Congrats to Monty and Japan.
Pity about the pitiful amount of votes so far. Didn't we have 45 in the beginning where you had to watch FOUR to vote including some tough to watch movies. Kinda expected the interest to rise towards the finale.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: ELIO PETRI,
Spoiler
ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, Yasujiro Ozu, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#62

Post by joachimt »

Interest always drops during the tournament.

This is the votecount for this season:

Image

The relatively high amoung of voters in SFB is of course caused by the extension.
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#63

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Close call to me and I might even be tempted to give Attack a sympathy #1 vote to even the score a bit more, if I believed in doing those kind of things. Congrats on both managers for picking films making my all-time favorites list.

1. Nobi (1959): 8.2 - This suffered from too high expectations for me,it wasn't the masterpiece I expected it to. Still a very good movie that slowly creeps up on.
2. Attack (1956); 8.2 - I read somebody describe Aldrich as the A-list Samuel Fuller and indeed both in the way it treats its subject matter and the directing, the cult edgy feel in its framing and compositions of shots, it felt that way to me. I do not get a the kudos Palance is getting, I found him to be overacting, especially near the end.
What's most interesting about this of course is that it is an American WWII movie made only a decade after the war that's critical of army command, while not of the war an sich. The anti-command sentiment has been shown before in other older war movies, but those are (almost) all about WWI. A war in which, due it's tremendous losses, the disregard for human life by the higher ups is generally criticized in and outside fiction. Also because of the particular horrific nature of that war (I don't mean to say other wars aren't horrific), that anti-command sentiment is (almost) always combined with a general anti-war messages about the war in itself being good for nothing. WWII of course is a war that has been displayed very different especially by the USA; patriotic, heroic, uncritical, a worthwhile war. (Probably still the most worthwhile war in most peoples eyes. Honestly is there really any American movie that's anti WWII and not in a general antiwar way?). This movie successfully walks the tightrope of being critical of commanding officers while still being supportive of the war itself and the "normal" soldiers fighting it. It has a nuanced view on how downsides of human nature, incompetence and corruption, can endanger human lives in a war.
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on April 12th, 2019, 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#64

Post by blocho »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: April 12th, 2019, 1:34 pm WWI of course is a war that has been displayed very different especially by the USA; patriotic, heroic, uncritical, a worthwhile war. (Probably still the most worthwhile war in most peoples eyes. Honestly is there really any American movie that's anti WWII and not in a general antiwar way?).
I assume you meant World War II in the first sentence. But overall, a really interesting question. I can think of a movie like The Victors, but you're right that it's generally anti-war and not specifically against World War II. But, then again, don't the vast majority of anti-war movies (if there is such a thing as an anti-war movie) follow this line? They usually criticize the brutality and horror of war in general rather than the political particularities of any single conflict. Vietnam generated more anti-war movies than any other American conflict (although still not enough), but when I think of those movies I feel like they usually did not make a statement about the political situation in Vietnam that led to war. Mostly, they focused on the suffering caused by war. If anything, pro-war movies are usually more politically oriented.

Incidentally, anti-war movies particularly interest me because I wrote a paper on the topic in grad school.

Also incidentally, I think World War II was the only war in American history that was actually worth fighting. Maybe the Civil War. For one side.
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#65

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

blocho wrote: April 12th, 2019, 3:03 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: April 12th, 2019, 1:34 pm WWI of course is a war that has been displayed very different especially by the USA; patriotic, heroic, uncritical, a worthwhile war. (Probably still the most worthwhile war in most peoples eyes. Honestly is there really any American movie that's anti WWII and not in a general antiwar way?).
I assume you meant World War II in the first sentence. But overall, a really interesting question. I can think of a movie like The Victors, but you're right that it's generally anti-war and not specifically against World War II. But, then again, don't the vast majority of anti-war movies (if there is such a thing as an anti-war movie) follow this line? They usually criticize the brutality and horror of war in general rather than the political particularities of any single conflict. Vietnam generated more anti-war movies than any other American conflict (although still not enough), but when I think of those movies I feel like they usually did not make a statement about the political situation in Vietnam that led to war. Mostly, they focused on the suffering caused by war. If anything, pro-war movies are usually more politically oriented.

Incidentally, anti-war movies particularly interest me because I wrote a paper on the topic in grad school.

Also incidentally, I think World War II was the only war in American history that was actually worth fighting. Maybe the Civil War. For one side.
Yeah, I meant WWII.

I disagree with you. I think for other wars, especially WWI and Vietnam, anti-war movies criticize the political particularities of that single conflict, most times combined with a criticism of the brutality and horror of war in general. I think most Vietnam (anti)war movies do make a clear political statement against the war.
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#66

Post by blocho »

Lonewolf2003 wrote: April 12th, 2019, 3:37 pm
I disagree with you. I think for other wars, especially WWI and Vietnam, anti-war movies criticize the political particularities of that single conflict, most times combined with a criticism of the brutality and horror of war in general. I think most Vietnam (anti)war movies do make a clear political statement against the war.
I guess it comes down to what we mean by "political." I think I can remember some sentiments in Vietnam War movies that seem to cast doubt on the necessity of American intervention in a foreign war and on whether American troops are actually helping the Vietnamese. To me, those attack the politics of the war and are specifically anti-Vietnam ideas. Would you agree with that? And can you give some examples for WWI movies?
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#67

Post by weirdboy »

Thanks, I enjoyed both films!

1. Nobi
2. Attack



Jack Palance in Attack reminded me of The Terminator or something the way he kept showing up.
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#68

Post by weirdboy »

blocho wrote: April 12th, 2019, 4:30 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: April 12th, 2019, 3:37 pm
I disagree with you. I think for other wars, especially WWI and Vietnam, anti-war movies criticize the political particularities of that single conflict, most times combined with a criticism of the brutality and horror of war in general. I think most Vietnam (anti)war movies do make a clear political statement against the war.
I guess it comes down to what we mean by "political." I think I can remember some sentiments in Vietnam War movies that seem to cast doubt on the necessity of American intervention in a foreign war and on whether American troops are actually helping the Vietnamese. To me, those attack the politics of the war and are specifically anti-Vietnam ideas. Would you agree with that? And can you give some examples for WWI movies?
WWI - Paths of Glory, Johnny Got His Gun
WWII - Catch-22, Slaughterhouse-Five
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#69

Post by blocho »

weirdboy wrote: April 12th, 2019, 8:44 pm
blocho wrote: April 12th, 2019, 4:30 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: April 12th, 2019, 3:37 pm
I disagree with you. I think for other wars, especially WWI and Vietnam, anti-war movies criticize the political particularities of that single conflict, most times combined with a criticism of the brutality and horror of war in general. I think most Vietnam (anti)war movies do make a clear political statement against the war.
I guess it comes down to what we mean by "political." I think I can remember some sentiments in Vietnam War movies that seem to cast doubt on the necessity of American intervention in a foreign war and on whether American troops are actually helping the Vietnamese. To me, those attack the politics of the war and are specifically anti-Vietnam ideas. Would you agree with that? And can you give some examples for WWI movies?
WWI - Paths of Glory, Johnny Got His Gun
WWII - Catch-22, Slaughterhouse-Five
As an aside, I feel like Clooney is gonna totally fuck up his new Catch-22 adaptation. I really enjoy him as an actor, but I think his directorial resume is brutal. I haven't seen Suburbicon, but I would characterize Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, Good Night and Good Luck, Leatherheads, The Ides of March, and The Monuments Men as all bad movies. For me, he's 0-5.

Anyway, regarding weirdboy's list of movies above, it's been too long since I've seen any of them to offer a reaction.
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#70

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

blocho wrote: April 12th, 2019, 4:30 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote: April 12th, 2019, 3:37 pm
I disagree with you. I think for other wars, especially WWI and Vietnam, anti-war movies criticize the political particularities of that single conflict, most times combined with a criticism of the brutality and horror of war in general. I think most Vietnam (anti)war movies do make a clear political statement against the war.
I guess it comes down to what we mean by "political." I think I can remember some sentiments in Vietnam War movies that seem to cast doubt on the necessity of American intervention in a foreign war and on whether American troops are actually helping the Vietnamese. To me, those attack the politics of the war and are specifically anti-Vietnam ideas. Would you agree with that? And can you give some examples for WWI movies?
Yes I would agree with you that movies that at the least cast doubt about the rightfulness of American involvement in the Vietnam war are anti Vietnam War movies. I call that political.
For WWI there are films like Paths of Glory, All Quiet on the Western Front, Le Roi de cœur and Johnny Got His Gun that point out the particular futility of that war, but those are less overt political than the Vietnam ones in my mind. I can't think of any now that deal directly with the political reasons behind it.
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#71

Post by metaller »

1. Nobi
2. Attack

Excellent final with two strong films. I had seen neither before. Nobi is likely one of the best films I watched in all world cup seasons, so this is no slight on Attack, when I place it just second behind Nobi.
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#72

Post by 72aicm »

1. Attack
2. Nobi
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#73

Post by tarr »

1. Nobi
2. Attack

It was a pleasure being part of this WC. I discovered some real gems.
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#74

Post by cayado-coro »

1.Attack (USA)
2.Nobi (Japan)
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#75

Post by joachimt »

Image Nobi: 24
Image Attack: 10

14.5 hours left
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#76

Post by Angel Glez »

Gosh, I have not voted yet!

1. Attack
2. Nobi

Not particularly fond of manager's choices this time.
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#77

Post by Fergenaprido »

Not sure how I feel about these two. Wasn't really in the mood to see serious war dramas, but didn't want to miss the final. Was up late to finish, though.

Nobi was overhyped for me, and it underwhelmed. I was expecting something much more, though I'm not quite certain what I was expecting. Attack was surprisingly good and well-paced, even if some of the characters irritated me,

In reading other reviews, I feel like I've seen different films than some others. I liked Palance's character in Attack, and didn't think he overacted at all. Some of the other characters seemed like caricatures, though, and I still can't believe some of their carelessness in the film when depicting war-hardened soldiers. I'm on the fence about Eddie Albert, but the fact that he was a real-life war hero playing a coward here is really interesting. For Nobi, I don't get how the lead character is presented as righteous and with a strong conscience. Early on in the film he lies about his rations, shoots an innocent person, and acts erratically (which may be from the TB), so much so that I never built up any real sympathy for him, so didn't care too much what he had to go through. I also didn't understand why salt was so important (my fault, not the film's). Definitely some haunting images, though, that speak to the message the film is trying to say.

Both films are in the 7.5 range for me, and would probably benefit from a rewatch in a decade or so. But for now...

1. Attack
2. Nobi
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#78

Post by mjf314 »

1. Nobi
2. Attack
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#79

Post by joachimt »

And that's it. The final deadline is over.

The winner of the 3rd season of the world cup is........ JAPAN!!

Final scores:
Image Nobi: 25
Image Attack: 12

Congratulations to monty!
Also thanks to filmbantha for playing and to the 37 people who voted this match.
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#80

Post by joachimt »

Final votecount:

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