Welcome to the ICM Forum. If you have an account but have trouble logging in, or have other questions, see THIS THREAD.
NOTE: Board emails should be working again. Information on forum upgrade and style issues.
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 22 released November 17th * EXCLUSIVE * We Are Mentioned in a Book!!! Interview with Mary Guillermin on Rapture, JG & More)
Polls: TV-series (Results), Directors (Jan 2nd), 1980 (Jan 24th), <50 checks (Jan 31st)
Challenges: 1000<400, Sci-Fi/Fantasy, Central American/Andean
Film of the Week: The Milagro Beanfield War, February nominations (Jan 29th)

World Cup, Season 3, Match SF-A: Greece vs USA (Mar 10th)

User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 33101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

World Cup, Season 3, Match SF-A: Greece vs USA (Mar 10th)

#1

Post by joachimt »

This is match Semi Final A of the third season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
GreeceOi voskoiThanos and Despina1967tommy_leazaqlinklink
USAThe Pawnbroker1964filmbanthalinklink

Screenshots
Oi voskoi
Image

The Pawnbroker
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, post which of the two movies is your favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Mar 10th
Countdown till deadline

The country that ends at 1st place proceeds to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Movie with most votes wins.
- In case of a tie the match will have a 3 day extension.
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works
We start with 48 films from 48 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 12 groups of 4. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 24 remaining countries will be divided into 8 groups of 3. The managers pick a new movie. The winner of each group proceeds to the next round. The final 8 countries compete one-on-one in the quarter finals (with a new movie of course) and so on till the final.
iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 33101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#2

Post by joachimt »

This really is a shame. I was please to see when tommy sent me the message he picked Oi voskoi for this round. If I remember correctly I even suggested it to him at some point. I think it's a great movie and it's pretty high on my favorites-list, so I was absolutely sure it would get my vote. But then filmbantha sent me a message saying he selected The Pawnbroker. That one is even higher on my favs-list. I already had the schedule ready by then and I really wanted to cheat at that moment and change the matches so both of these movies could win. :'(

1. The Pawnbroker 9/10
2. Oi voskoi 9/10
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
klaus78
Donator
Posts: 1579
Joined: March 27th, 2013, 6:00 am
Contact:

#3

Post by klaus78 »

1. The Pawnbroker (USA) 7/10
2. Oi voskoi (Greece) 7/10
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 12721
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#4

Post by Armoreska »

Greece is not that good to be in the final. USA all the way.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: ELIO PETRI,
Spoiler
ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, Yasujiro Ozu, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
jvv
Donator
Posts: 8679
Joined: May 28th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#5

Post by jvv »

1. The Pawnbroker (USA) - 7/10
2. Oi voskoi (Greece) - 7/10
User avatar
Mario Gaborović
Posts: 3637
Joined: April 11th, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Pančevo
Contact:

#6

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Armoreska wrote: February 24th, 2019, 5:55 pm Greece is not that good to be in the final. USA all the way.
We're voting for films, not how we see countries in cinema in general.
User avatar
monty
Posts: 12791
Joined: May 9th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#7

Post by monty »

:poshclap:
Mario Gaborović wrote: February 24th, 2019, 7:39 pm
Armoreska wrote: February 24th, 2019, 5:55 pm Greece is not that good to be in the final. USA all the way.
We're voting for films, not how we see countries in cinema in general.
Nathan Treadway
Donator
Posts: 4387
Joined: June 26th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Springfield, MO, USA
Contact:

#8

Post by Nathan Treadway »

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi
zhangalan
Posts: 2198
Joined: March 10th, 2013, 7:00 am
Contact:

#9

Post by zhangalan »

1. The Pawnbroker (USA)
2. Oi voskoi (Greece)
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 33101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#10

Post by joachimt »

Should filmbantha start considering his next pick yet?

Image Oi voskoi: 0
Image The Pawnbroker: 5
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
Cocoa
Donator
Posts: 2000
Joined: July 17th, 2013, 6:00 am
Location: Chicago, USA
Contact:

#11

Post by Cocoa »

I have barely any recollections of either film. Both were 5/10 when I watched them years ago :\

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi
User avatar
pitchorneirda
Posts: 310
Joined: February 11th, 2019, 12:07 pm
Location: France
Contact:

#12

Post by pitchorneirda »

Cocoa wrote: February 25th, 2019, 4:03 pm I have barely any recollections of either film. Both were 5/10 when I watched them years ago :\

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi
With so little difference in your rating, maybe you should consider watching them again, or abstain from voting since you're not fond of either of them!?
"Art is like a fire, it is born from the very thing it burns" - Jean-Luc Godard
User avatar
72aicm
Donator
Posts: 3429
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 7:00 am
Contact:

#13

Post by 72aicm »

Poor Greece. Same ratings as the American four times and loosing 6-0. Harsh.
User avatar
Cocoa
Donator
Posts: 2000
Joined: July 17th, 2013, 6:00 am
Location: Chicago, USA
Contact:

#14

Post by Cocoa »

pitchorneirda wrote: February 25th, 2019, 4:44 pm
Cocoa wrote: February 25th, 2019, 4:03 pm I have barely any recollections of either film. Both were 5/10 when I watched them years ago :\

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi
With so little difference in your rating, maybe you should consider watching them again, or abstain from voting since you're not fond of either of them!?
I always vote, so I'm not abstaining. Rewatching films I don't like simply to decide which one I prefer over the other seems like a poor use of my time. I don't remember enough to debate every single detail about the movies, but I have enough to go off on to reach a decision. I remember having negative emotions on The Pawnbroker, while Oi voskoi was more "meh" than positive or negative, so I'm voting for the film that gave me some emotional reaction. I doubt my one vote will decide this match.
blocho
Donator
Posts: 4173
Joined: July 20th, 2014, 6:00 am
Contact:

#15

Post by blocho »

imdb lists Oi Voskoi as 96 minutes, while icm has 120 minutes. The copy I got from elsewhere is 116 minutes. Thoughts?
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 33101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#16

Post by joachimt »

No idea about 96 minutes. 116 seems to be the version to watch.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
pitchorneirda
Posts: 310
Joined: February 11th, 2019, 12:07 pm
Location: France
Contact:

#17

Post by pitchorneirda »

1. Oi voskoi (Greece) - 9/10
2. The Pawnbroker (USA) - 5.5/10
"Art is like a fire, it is born from the very thing it burns" - Jean-Luc Godard
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 33101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#18

Post by joachimt »

Glad to see I'm not the only one who loves Oi voskoi. :poshclap:
You're the only one to vote for it so far though.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
pitchorneirda
Posts: 310
Joined: February 11th, 2019, 12:07 pm
Location: France
Contact:

#19

Post by pitchorneirda »

joachimt wrote: February 26th, 2019, 7:31 pm Glad to see I'm not the only one who loves Oi voskoi. :poshclap:
You're the only one to vote for it so far though.
Yes, already made it into my all-time top 20! Thank you tommy_leazaq for choosing it!
No doubt it will receive more votes.
"Art is like a fire, it is born from the very thing it burns" - Jean-Luc Godard
User avatar
hurluberlu
Donator
Posts: 2150
Joined: January 4th, 2017, 7:00 am
Contact:

#20

Post by hurluberlu »

Two very ambitious films, good picks !

Papatakis really manages to transcend his subject, taking a raw sheperds feud story to the heights of pyschosocial oppression and love mythology. Bunuel would not have done better.
Lumet seems to hesitate between the Harlem crime depiction and the Holocaust Survival drama which at the end look like two very different films that stick to their own codes. I didn't find the «subliminal cutting» very effective either.

1. Oi voskoi (Greece) 8+
2. The Pawnbroker (USA) 7-
Last edited by hurluberlu on February 28th, 2019, 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#JeSuisCharlie Liberté, Liberté chérie !

Image
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Mario Gaborović
Posts: 3637
Joined: April 11th, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Pančevo
Contact:

#21

Post by Mario Gaborović »

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi
User avatar
zuma
Donator
Posts: 2184
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Contact:

#22

Post by zuma »

01. Oi voskoi

02. The Pawnbroker
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 33101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#23

Post by joachimt »

Image Oi voskoi: 3
Image The Pawnbroker: 7
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
Muellwind
Posts: 388
Joined: July 4th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#24

Post by Muellwind »

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi
User avatar
maxwelldeux
Donator
Posts: 8783
Joined: June 7th, 2016, 6:00 am
Location: Seattle-ish, WA, USA
Contact:

#25

Post by maxwelldeux »

My first ever vote in a WC challenge!

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 33101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#26

Post by joachimt »

maxwelldeux wrote: March 2nd, 2019, 8:40 pm My first ever vote in a WC challenge!

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi
:thumbsup:
What took you so long? It's almost over.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
maxwelldeux
Donator
Posts: 8783
Joined: June 7th, 2016, 6:00 am
Location: Seattle-ish, WA, USA
Contact:

#27

Post by maxwelldeux »

joachimt wrote: March 2nd, 2019, 9:10 pm What took you so long? It's almost over.
A lot of reasons, mostly boiling down to prioritizing other film goals. But when the two films are 1. by the director of my favorite movie, and 2. on a list I wanted to work on, it seemed like a no-brainer.
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 12721
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#28

Post by Armoreska »

The Pawnbroker 8 - the final movie better be better because this probably would have won as well
Oi Voskoi 6
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: ELIO PETRI,
Spoiler
ANARCHISTS, 2010s bests, Yasujiro Ozu, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
Smoover
Posts: 593
Joined: August 24th, 2014, 6:00 am
Contact:

#29

Post by Smoover »

1. The Pawnbroker 7.5
2. Oi voskoi 7
User avatar
72aicm
Donator
Posts: 3429
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 7:00 am
Contact:

#30

Post by 72aicm »

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi
User avatar
Lilarcor
Donator
Posts: 3053
Joined: June 14th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#31

Post by Lilarcor »

1. The Pawnbroker 7/10
2. Oi voskoi 7/10

In addition to Bunuel I think there's a lot of (early 60s) Godard in Oi voskoi personally, seems like it was made partly with French money too... Fascinating movie.
User avatar
beavis
Posts: 2612
Joined: June 20th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Contact:

#32

Post by beavis »

1. The Pawnbroker - 8,5
2. Oi voskoi - 7,5
User avatar
Lonewolf2003
Donator
Posts: 10472
Joined: December 29th, 2012, 7:00 am
Contact:

#33

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

1. The Pawnbroker (1964): 8.5 - Very strong character study about a Holocaust survivor. I haven't seen many ones in which the survivor is such a bitter but also tragic man. Therefor making him a very human character. The way his character is given depth and history by using small and longer cuts to flashbacks deserves all the praise its getting. It really shows how memory works, giving little quick flashes by associations. Rod Steiger is phenomenal.

2. Oi voskoi (1967): 6.8 - With the beautiful cinematography it sure is a lust for eye, and so is Olga Karlatos. Even in b/w you can see she has beautiful green eyes. The movie therefor started out very promising, maybe even giving the Pawnbroker a run for its money. But the more the movie went on, the harder I found it to grasp the motivation of the characters. Not only because I find it hard to understand these 60s Greece ethics in which honor means everything, but also because they seemed to act inconsistent in the movie itself. At times I felt maybe I had this movie figured wrong and it was all meant as a parody or farce, this idea was strengthened by the surrealistic bits that creeped in near the end (like Thanos and Despina clothes changes) but therefor it wasn't funny enough for me. (Seeing people here compare it to Bunuel and such convinces me even more this is meant as a surreal parody). The end made me think this all also could be meant as an allegory for Greece in the 1960s, but to appreciate the movie like that my knowledge of recent Greece history is lacking.
Apparently Yorgos Lanthimos is a big fan of this movie.
User avatar
clemmetarey
Donator
Posts: 2415
Joined: November 20th, 2011, 7:00 am
Contact:

#34

Post by clemmetarey »

1. The Pawnbroker (1964) 6/10
2. Oi voskoi (1967) 5/10
User avatar
filmbantha
Posts: 425
Joined: July 10th, 2013, 6:00 am
Contact:

#35

Post by filmbantha »

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi

I really enjoyed Oi Voskoi, watching the lives of these strange characters unfold as the story unraveled was fascinating. It didn't quite top The Pawnbroker for me though.

Had Tommy picked O Fovos in this round instead of earlier on, it would have placed higher than The Pawnbroker, and it is still my favourite discovery of the WC this far. If Greece doesn't make it through I would love to hear what Tommy's intended pick for the final would be as his selections for Greece have been great choices.
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 33101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#36

Post by joachimt »

10 votes in a row for The Pawnbroker. Although I voted for it as well, I'm still sad Oi voskoi doesn't get more votes, because I love that one as well.

Image Oi voskoi: 3
Image The Pawnbroker: 17
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
PGonzalez
Posts: 420
Joined: September 8th, 2013, 6:00 am
Contact:

#37

Post by PGonzalez »

1. Oi Voskoi
2. The Pawnbroker

Good picks for both sides, glad to have watched them.
User avatar
sortile9io
Posts: 3120
Joined: January 23rd, 2013, 7:00 am
Contact:

#38

Post by sortile9io »

1. Oi voskoi (Papatakis, 1967) — 6
2. The pawnbroker (Lumet, 1964) — 5

Not my type (the last part was somewhat tedious) but I definitely prefer the Greek cast and cultural background and it has more substance than the US film. A very solid pick in any case. Lumet spends a lot of time reiterating the same idea (man tormented by his past) and some of his explanations are unconvincing (dramatic surprise after discovering the dirty source of black money). He excels however in creating the appropriate bleak atmosphere.
User avatar
weirdboy
Donator
Posts: 3987
Joined: January 3rd, 2016, 7:00 am
Contact:

#39

Post by weirdboy »

1. Oi voskoi AKA Thanos and Despina (1967) - Nikos Papatakis
2. The Pawnbroker (1964) - Sidney Lumet

Good selections for this match. I liked both movies and this came down to a tough decision that maybe could have ended up the other way if I were in a different mood.
tommy_leazaq
Donator
Posts: 3613
Joined: May 18th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Chennai, India
Contact:

#40

Post by tommy_leazaq »

1. Thanos and Despina (1967) - 7.25
2. The Pawnbroker (1964) - 7
Post Reply