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World Cup, Season 3, Match SF-A: Greece vs USA (Mar 10th)

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World Cup, Season 3, Match SF-A: Greece vs USA (Mar 10th)

#1

Post by joachimt » February 24th, 2019, 4:46 pm

This is match Semi Final A of the third season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
GreeceOi voskoiThanos and Despina1967tommy_leazaqlinklink
USAThe Pawnbroker1964filmbanthalinklink

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Oi voskoi
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The Pawnbroker
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Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, post which of the two movies is your favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Mar 10th
Countdown till deadline

The country that ends at 1st place proceeds to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Movie with most votes wins.
- In case of a tie the match will have a 3 day extension.
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament worksShow
We start with 48 films from 48 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 12 groups of 4. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 24 remaining countries will be divided into 8 groups of 3. The managers pick a new movie. The winner of each group proceeds to the next round. The final 8 countries compete one-on-one in the quarter finals (with a new movie of course) and so on till the final.
iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons
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#2

Post by joachimt » February 24th, 2019, 4:56 pm

This really is a shame. I was please to see when tommy sent me the message he picked Oi voskoi for this round. If I remember correctly I even suggested it to him at some point. I think it's a great movie and it's pretty high on my favorites-list, so I was absolutely sure it would get my vote. But then filmbantha sent me a message saying he selected The Pawnbroker. That one is even higher on my favs-list. I already had the schedule ready by then and I really wanted to cheat at that moment and change the matches so both of these movies could win. :'(

1. The Pawnbroker 9/10
2. Oi voskoi 9/10
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#3

Post by klaus78 » February 24th, 2019, 5:23 pm

1. The Pawnbroker (USA) 7/10
2. Oi voskoi (Greece) 7/10
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#4

Post by Armoreska » February 24th, 2019, 5:55 pm

Greece is not that good to be in the final. USA all the way.
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currently working towards a vegan/low waste world + thru such film lists (besides TV): 2010s bests, RW Fassbinder, Luis Bunuel, Yasujiro Ozu, Eric Rohmer, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#5

Post by jvv » February 24th, 2019, 6:06 pm

1. The Pawnbroker (USA) - 7/10
2. Oi voskoi (Greece) - 7/10

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#6

Post by Mario Gaborović » February 24th, 2019, 7:39 pm

Armoreska wrote:
February 24th, 2019, 5:55 pm
Greece is not that good to be in the final. USA all the way.
We're voting for films, not how we see countries in cinema in general.

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#7

Post by monty » February 24th, 2019, 7:42 pm

:poshclap:
Mario Gaborović wrote:
February 24th, 2019, 7:39 pm
Armoreska wrote:
February 24th, 2019, 5:55 pm
Greece is not that good to be in the final. USA all the way.
We're voting for films, not how we see countries in cinema in general.

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#8

Post by Nathan Treadway » February 25th, 2019, 7:43 am

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi

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#9

Post by zhangalan » February 25th, 2019, 11:23 am

1. The Pawnbroker (USA)
2. Oi voskoi (Greece)

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#10

Post by joachimt » February 25th, 2019, 11:27 am

Should filmbantha start considering his next pick yet?

Image Oi voskoi: 0
Image The Pawnbroker: 5
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#11

Post by Cocoa » February 25th, 2019, 4:03 pm

I have barely any recollections of either film. Both were 5/10 when I watched them years ago :\

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi

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#12

Post by pitchorneirda » February 25th, 2019, 4:44 pm

Cocoa wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 4:03 pm
I have barely any recollections of either film. Both were 5/10 when I watched them years ago :\

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi
With so little difference in your rating, maybe you should consider watching them again, or abstain from voting since you're not fond of either of them!?

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#13

Post by 72aicm » February 25th, 2019, 5:17 pm

Poor Greece. Same ratings as the American four times and loosing 6-0. Harsh.

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#14

Post by Cocoa » February 25th, 2019, 7:32 pm

pitchorneirda wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 4:44 pm
Cocoa wrote:
February 25th, 2019, 4:03 pm
I have barely any recollections of either film. Both were 5/10 when I watched them years ago :\

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi
With so little difference in your rating, maybe you should consider watching them again, or abstain from voting since you're not fond of either of them!?
I always vote, so I'm not abstaining. Rewatching films I don't like simply to decide which one I prefer over the other seems like a poor use of my time. I don't remember enough to debate every single detail about the movies, but I have enough to go off on to reach a decision. I remember having negative emotions on The Pawnbroker, while Oi voskoi was more "meh" than positive or negative, so I'm voting for the film that gave me some emotional reaction. I doubt my one vote will decide this match.

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#15

Post by blocho » February 26th, 2019, 12:57 am

imdb lists Oi Voskoi as 96 minutes, while icm has 120 minutes. The copy I got from elsewhere is 116 minutes. Thoughts?

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#16

Post by joachimt » February 26th, 2019, 7:11 am

No idea about 96 minutes. 116 seems to be the version to watch.
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#17

Post by pitchorneirda » February 26th, 2019, 2:31 pm

1. Oi voskoi (Greece) - 9/10
2. The Pawnbroker (USA) - 5.5/10

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#18

Post by joachimt » February 26th, 2019, 7:31 pm

Glad to see I'm not the only one who loves Oi voskoi. :poshclap:
You're the only one to vote for it so far though.
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#19

Post by pitchorneirda » February 27th, 2019, 6:12 pm

joachimt wrote:
February 26th, 2019, 7:31 pm
Glad to see I'm not the only one who loves Oi voskoi. :poshclap:
You're the only one to vote for it so far though.
Yes, already made it into my all-time top 20! Thank you tommy_leazaq for choosing it!
No doubt it will receive more votes.

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#20

Post by hurluberlu » February 27th, 2019, 8:46 pm

Two very ambitious films, good picks !

Papatakis really manages to transcend his subject, taking a raw sheperds feud story to the heights of pyschosocial oppression and love mythology. Bunuel would not have done better.
Lumet seems to hesitate between the Harlem crime depiction and the Holocaust Survival drama which at the end look like two very different films that stick to their own codes. I didn't find the «subliminal cutting» very effective either.

1. Oi voskoi (Greece) 8+
2. The Pawnbroker (USA) 7-
Last edited by hurluberlu on February 28th, 2019, 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#21

Post by Mario Gaborović » February 28th, 2019, 5:44 pm

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi

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#22

Post by zuma » March 2nd, 2019, 2:49 am

01. Oi voskoi

02. The Pawnbroker

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#23

Post by joachimt » March 2nd, 2019, 6:32 am

Image Oi voskoi: 3
Image The Pawnbroker: 7
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#24

Post by Muellwind » March 2nd, 2019, 2:58 pm

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi

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#25

Post by maxwelldeux » March 2nd, 2019, 8:40 pm

My first ever vote in a WC challenge!

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi

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#26

Post by joachimt » March 2nd, 2019, 9:10 pm

maxwelldeux wrote:
March 2nd, 2019, 8:40 pm
My first ever vote in a WC challenge!

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi
:thumbsup:
What took you so long? It's almost over.
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#27

Post by maxwelldeux » March 2nd, 2019, 9:31 pm

joachimt wrote:
March 2nd, 2019, 9:10 pm
What took you so long? It's almost over.
A lot of reasons, mostly boiling down to prioritizing other film goals. But when the two films are 1. by the director of my favorite movie, and 2. on a list I wanted to work on, it seemed like a no-brainer.

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#28

Post by Armoreska » March 3rd, 2019, 4:24 am

The Pawnbroker 8 - the final movie better be better because this probably would have won as well
Oi Voskoi 6
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currently working towards a vegan/low waste world + thru such film lists (besides TV): 2010s bests, RW Fassbinder, Luis Bunuel, Yasujiro Ozu, Eric Rohmer, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#29

Post by Smoover » March 3rd, 2019, 12:17 pm

1. The Pawnbroker 7.5
2. Oi voskoi 7

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#30

Post by 72aicm » March 3rd, 2019, 5:33 pm

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi voskoi

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#31

Post by Lilarcor » March 3rd, 2019, 10:02 pm

1. The Pawnbroker 7/10
2. Oi voskoi 7/10

In addition to Bunuel I think there's a lot of (early 60s) Godard in Oi voskoi personally, seems like it was made partly with French money too... Fascinating movie.

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#32

Post by beavis » March 4th, 2019, 8:55 pm

1. The Pawnbroker - 8,5
2. Oi voskoi - 7,5

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#33

Post by Lonewolf2003 » March 4th, 2019, 11:27 pm

1. The Pawnbroker (1964): 8.5 - Very strong character study about a Holocaust survivor. I haven't seen many ones in which the survivor is such a bitter but also tragic man. Therefor making him a very human character. The way his character is given depth and history by using small and longer cuts to flashbacks deserves all the praise its getting. It really shows how memory works, giving little quick flashes by associations. Rod Steiger is phenomenal.

2. Oi voskoi (1967): 6.8 - With the beautiful cinematography it sure is a lust for eye, and so is Olga Karlatos. Even in b/w you can see she has beautiful green eyes. The movie therefor started out very promising, maybe even giving the Pawnbroker a run for its money. But the more the movie went on, the harder I found it to grasp the motivation of the characters. Not only because I find it hard to understand these 60s Greece ethics in which honor means everything, but also because they seemed to act inconsistent in the movie itself. At times I felt maybe I had this movie figured wrong and it was all meant as a parody or farce, this idea was strengthened by the surrealistic bits that creeped in near the end (like Thanos and Despina clothes changes) but therefor it wasn't funny enough for me. (Seeing people here compare it to Bunuel and such convinces me even more this is meant as a surreal parody). The end made me think this all also could be meant as an allegory for Greece in the 1960s, but to appreciate the movie like that my knowledge of recent Greece history is lacking.
Apparently Yorgos Lanthimos is a big fan of this movie.

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#34

Post by clemmetarey » March 5th, 2019, 11:08 pm

1. The Pawnbroker (1964) 6/10
2. Oi voskoi (1967) 5/10

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#35

Post by filmbantha » March 6th, 2019, 7:28 am

1. The Pawnbroker
2. Oi Voskoi

I really enjoyed Oi Voskoi, watching the lives of these strange characters unfold as the story unraveled was fascinating. It didn't quite top The Pawnbroker for me though.

Had Tommy picked O Fovos in this round instead of earlier on, it would have placed higher than The Pawnbroker, and it is still my favourite discovery of the WC this far. If Greece doesn't make it through I would love to hear what Tommy's intended pick for the final would be as his selections for Greece have been great choices.

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#36

Post by joachimt » March 6th, 2019, 6:05 pm

10 votes in a row for The Pawnbroker. Although I voted for it as well, I'm still sad Oi voskoi doesn't get more votes, because I love that one as well.

Image Oi voskoi: 3
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#37

Post by PGonzalez » March 7th, 2019, 7:09 pm

1. Oi Voskoi
2. The Pawnbroker

Good picks for both sides, glad to have watched them.

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#38

Post by sortile9io » March 7th, 2019, 7:27 pm

1. Oi voskoi (Papatakis, 1967) — 6
2. The pawnbroker (Lumet, 1964) — 5

Not my type (the last part was somewhat tedious) but I definitely prefer the Greek cast and cultural background and it has more substance than the US film. A very solid pick in any case. Lumet spends a lot of time reiterating the same idea (man tormented by his past) and some of his explanations are unconvincing (dramatic surprise after discovering the dirty source of black money). He excels however in creating the appropriate bleak atmosphere.

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#39

Post by weirdboy » March 8th, 2019, 7:59 pm

1. Oi voskoi AKA Thanos and Despina (1967) - Nikos Papatakis
2. The Pawnbroker (1964) - Sidney Lumet

Good selections for this match. I liked both movies and this came down to a tough decision that maybe could have ended up the other way if I were in a different mood.

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#40

Post by tommy_leazaq » March 8th, 2019, 9:29 pm

1. Thanos and Despina (1967) - 7.25
2. The Pawnbroker (1964) - 7

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