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iCM Forum World Cup - Season 3 - Round 1 schedule

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joachimt
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#161

Post by joachimt »

PeacefulAnarchy on Dec 22 2017, 01:47:18 PM wrote:
joachimt on Dec 22 2017, 07:16:01 AM wrote:Average ranking
ImageAraya: 2.079 (73-41)
ImageCourt: 2.079 (73-41)
ImageThe Dark Knight: 2.711 (49-65)
ImageCabascabo: 3.132 (33-81)
Would you consider presenting average rank like this?
What are those numbers? Total head-to-head wins vs losses?
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#162

Post by Mario Gaborović »

joachimt on Dec 22 2017, 02:26:17 PM wrote:
PeacefulAnarchy on Dec 22 2017, 01:47:18 PM wrote:
joachimt on Dec 22 2017, 07:16:01 AM wrote:Average ranking
ImageAraya: 2.079 (73-41)
ImageCourt: 2.079 (73-41)
ImageThe Dark Knight: 2.711 (49-65)
ImageCabascabo: 3.132 (33-81)
Would you consider presenting average rank like this?
What are those numbers? Total head-to-head wins vs losses?
Votes for vs votes against, I think. Wins vs losses would be more like 3-0, 2-1, 1-2, and 0-3.
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#163

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

You're both saying the same thing in different words, but yes.
It's the totals for each country from the second table:
Head to head
ImageCourt - ImageCabascabo: 29 - 9
ImageCourt - ImageAraya: 20 - 18
ImageCourt - ImageThe Dark Knight: 24 - 14
ImageCabascabo - ImageAraya: 8 - 30
ImageCabascabo - ImageThe Dark Knight: 16 - 22
ImageAraya - ImageThe Dark Knight: 25 - 13
It's equivalent to average rank, but makes it a bit easier to parse the size of a country's lead and should satisfy Gershwin and others who wanted a total where bigger number=better.
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#164

Post by joachimt »

Updated my spreadsheet.

Testing:

Average ranking
ImageAraya: 2.079 (73-41)
ImageCourt: 2.079 (73-41)
ImageThe Dark Knight: 2.711 (49-65)
ImageCabascabo: 3.132 (33-81)
Last edited by joachimt on December 22nd, 2017, 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#165

Post by sortile9io »

A blank space between the flag and the name of the country wouldn't hurt either.
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#166

Post by joachimt »

sortile9io on Dec 22 2017, 03:56:04 PM wrote:A blank space between the flag and the name of the country wouldn't hurt either.
Done:

Average ranking
Image Araya: 2.079 (73-41)
Image Court: 2.079 (73-41)
Image The Dark Knight: 2.711 (49-65)
Image Cabascabo: 3.132 (33-81)

Head to head
Image Court - Image Cabascabo: 29 - 9
Image Court - Image Araya: 20 - 18
Image Court - Image The Dark Knight: 24 - 14
Image Cabascabo - Image Araya: 8 - 30
Image Cabascabo - Image The Dark Knight: 16 - 22
Image Araya - Image The Dark Knight: 25 - 13

Number of #1-votes
Image Court: 15
Image Cabascabo: 1
Image Araya: 14
Image The Dark Knight: 8

Number of #4-votes
Image Court: 7
Image Cabascabo: 10
Image Araya: 7
Image The Dark Knight: 14

Any more wishes?
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#167

Post by joachimt »

sortile9io on Dec 22 2017, 03:56:04 PM wrote:A blank space between the flag and the name of the country wouldn't hurt either.
It's not the name of the country, btw, but the name of the movie. ;)
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#168

Post by sortile9io »

joachimt on Dec 22 2017, 04:09:34 PM wrote:Any more wishes?
Yes, The Dark Knight should be number four.
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#169

Post by sortile9io »

joachimt on Dec 22 2017, 04:10:10 PM wrote:
sortile9io on Dec 22 2017, 03:56:04 PM wrote:A blank space between the flag and the name of the country wouldn't hurt either.
It's not the name of the country, btw, but the name of the movie. ;)
True, I haven't switched the context from the Conquer the World Challenge.
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#170

Post by Armoreska »

sortile9io on Dec 22 2017, 04:11:23 PM wrote:
joachimt on Dec 22 2017, 04:09:34 PM wrote:Any more wishes?
Yes, The Dark Knight should be number four.
I'm not a big fan, but pretty sure it would wipe the floor with these three
he or A. or Armo or any

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#171

Post by Fergenaprido »

joachimt on Dec 22 2017, 04:09:34 PM wrote:
sortile9io on Dec 22 2017, 03:56:04 PM wrote:A blank space between the flag and the name of the country wouldn't hurt either.
Done:

Average ranking
Image Araya: 2.079 (73-41)
Image Court: 2.079 (73-41)
Image The Dark Knight: 2.711 (49-65)
Image Cabascabo: 3.132 (33-81)

Head to head
Image Court - Image Cabascabo: 29 - 9
Image Court - Image Araya: 20 - 18
Image Court - Image The Dark Knight: 24 - 14
Image Cabascabo - Image Araya: 8 - 30
Image Cabascabo - Image The Dark Knight: 16 - 22
Image Araya - Image The Dark Knight: 25 - 13

Number of #1-votes
Image Court: 15
Image Cabascabo: 1
Image Araya: 14
Image The Dark Knight: 8

Number of #4-votes
Image Court: 7
Image Cabascabo: 10
Image Araya: 7
Image The Dark Knight: 14

Any more wishes?
So which one is the winner in this situation? Maybe bold it out to make it easier to discern, otherwise it's just a bunch of data.

I'm guessing Court is the winner here, but you list Araya first so I'm not sure.
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#172

Post by Nathan Treadway »

Yeah, in the actual thread, you should bold the leader. (Court won that round based on the first tiebreaker, Head to Head), or post the average ranking in order, taking the tiebreakers into acct.
Last edited by Nathan Treadway on December 23rd, 2017, 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#173

Post by joachimt »

I'll put 1, 2, 3 and 4 in front of the results and bold the leader.
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#174

Post by sacmersault »

I don't think avg. ranking is the best way to go. It seems unfair for some smaller countries or if someone was purposely trying to lower the ranking of a country.

I think the head-to-head should be more important. Specially since we're basing the World Cup on the World Cup. We should use the 3-1-0 point system.

Also, rewarding countries who receive a lot of #1 places should be taken into account.

As per some matches, last season there were wins that barely beat other countries but that made it more exciting. So by using avg. ranking it would get rid of that excitement.
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#175

Post by RogerTheMovieManiac88 »

I think head-to-head is fairest as well in a World Cup. I'll certainly be using that system of pitting each film against the other three in the group in one-on-one matches to come up with how I place them from 1st to 4th in the pool.
Last edited by RogerTheMovieManiac88 on December 24th, 2017, 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
That's all, folks!
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#176

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

sacmersault on Dec 23 2017, 06:14:35 PM wrote:I don't think avg. ranking is the best way to go. It seems unfair for some smaller countries or if someone was purposely trying to lower the ranking of a country.
What? How does it affect smaller countries any differently? And vote manipulation can happen in head to head too, and with more dramatic effects.
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#177

Post by sacmersault »

PeacefulAnarchy on Dec 23 2017, 07:07:07 PM wrote:
sacmersault on Dec 23 2017, 06:14:35 PM wrote:I don't think avg. ranking is the best way to go. It seems unfair for some smaller countries or if someone was purposely trying to lower the ranking of a country.
What? How does it affect smaller countries any differently? And vote manipulation can happen in head to head too, and with more dramatic effects.
It affects small countries by giving the a chance to go through. If you see the results from the las WC, several films that were from "smaller" countries managed to go through by being pitted against other countries and being compared directly with the films it was competing with. I know vote manipulation can occur under any circumstances, but in a avg. ranking if one person really wants to help a country, friend, or etc... by giving a country a very low vote (4 being the highest) would really affect its average. While if one person makes lose it head-to-head to the other three countries, it would just be a lost. They would balance out if everyone thinks it's good or at least better than some other ones.
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#178

Post by PeacefulAnarchy »

It would also balance out with average votes. In fact it would balance out more easily with average votes because all votes are equal, rather than only ones in with closely split opinions, which allows more space for vote manipulation.

If people really fear vote manipulation we can all send our opinions by PM to joachimt so no one knows who's winning and which film to downvote/upvote. I really don't think this is a problem though, and I also don't see why it would affect smaller countries any more than others.

Both vote counting methods can result in an "unfair" result, it is impossible to have a single winner voting system with more than two participants that doesn't have the potential for a result that fails a fairness criteria. So it's not that I don't agree that that average vote has issues, I just think its issues are much lesser than head to head for this exercise in the potential situations where they yield different results.
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#179

Post by joachimt »

I trust people to vote fairly. I just like to trust people. Let this place be a tiny honest piece in the big bad world. -_-

Only one match in the 1st and 2nd season would have had a different outcome and that was a very close match. I don't see how average voting would be a disadvantage to smaller countries.
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#180

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Yeah and secret voting would be such a downer, I can feel it.
Last edited by Mario Gaborović on December 24th, 2017, 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#181

Post by joachimt »

Mario Gaborović on Dec 24 2017, 04:25:27 AM wrote:Yeah and secret voting would be such a downer, I can feel it.
Or course, all the excitement would be gone.
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#182

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

I can’t remember any instances of vote manipulation or such, People here are fair and thrustworthy. So it’s a complete non-issue.
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#183

Post by Mochard »

I try not to read the posts until I have watched the films and then posted. That way I feel I'm not being swayed by other peoples votes as I haven't seen any of them. Might be a little harder to do in my group now I am a manager. However I am still going to go in with an open mind and if I like another countries film better than my own then I will rate them accordingly.
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#184

Post by mjf314 »

Can someone please change the "Round 1 schedule" link at the top of the forum to either the first post or the first page of this thread, so I can see the schedule when I click the link?
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#185

Post by joachimt »

mjf314 on Dec 25 2017, 07:46:45 PM wrote:Can someone please change the "Round 1 schedule" link at the top of the forum to either the first post or the first page of this thread, so I can see the schedule when I click the link?
Sure, I changed it to view single post.
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#186

Post by Armoreska »

So what's the verdict on Pandurea Spandutilizator?
Do we have Romanian users that can reword these subs?
Otherwise the match starts with February, together with my vacation...
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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