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iCM World Cup Bronze Final - Yes or No?

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monty
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iCM World Cup Bronze Final - Yes or No?

#1

Post by monty » March 15th, 2017, 1:16 pm

In light of the shockingly low participation rate for this year's bronze final, I guess it's time to ask the obvious: Should we just do away with the bronze final altogether? And if we decide to keep it, when should it be held - before or after the finals?
Personally, I think it should be held before the finals as interest in the Cup seems to drop sharply once the overall winner has been declared.
Last edited by monty on March 15th, 2017, 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#2

Post by Lonewolf2003 » March 15th, 2017, 1:20 pm

Didn't we just do this.

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#3

Post by monty » March 15th, 2017, 1:21 pm

There has been no poll until now. Also, it's time to reevaluate the current way of doing things as the turnout for this year's bronze match amply shows.
Last edited by monty on March 15th, 2017, 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#4

Post by Mario Gaborović » March 15th, 2017, 1:23 pm

monty on Mar 15 2017, 07:21:45 AM wrote:There has been no poll until now.
Alright, I understand you want to raise the number of people who'd watch Torremolinos 73, right? Can't help you with that, but I can just say, guys there won't World Cup for a while so give it a final shot.
Last edited by Mario Gaborović on March 15th, 2017, 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#5

Post by brokenface » March 15th, 2017, 1:36 pm

There was a poll. People voted against having it. Hence low turnout.

viewtopic.php?t=2759&1/
joachimt on wrote:
brokenface on Feb 20 2017, 11:52:08 AM wrote:
joachimt on Feb 20 2017, 07:13:56 AM wrote:Votes are split up:
9x yes
11x no
10x fine either way

So let's do the final first and afterwards the 3rd-place match. Anyone who's not interested can just ignore it.

I'll start a new topic for the finals in a few moments.
Last time I checked, 11 was a bigger number than 9 :mw_confused:
Sure, but this is no election where 1 vote decides.
sortile9io on Feb 20 2017, 11:55:45 AM wrote:The royal power of veto. :folded:
Exactly. :rolleyes:

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To me, it's simply a case of do I wanna commit 4 hrs to watching these 2 films when there's nothing at stake, they don't look particularly appealing and no-one saying much positive about them? I mean, I think tommy even said in the thread that he hadn't yet watched the film he nominated himself!

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#6

Post by monty » March 15th, 2017, 1:43 pm

brokenface on Mar 15 2017, 07:36:59 AM wrote:There was a poll. People voted against having it. Hence low turnout.
It's not that simple. The noes won by one measly vote. Also, 10 voted they were fine either way. Where are they now?
I think the decision to have this match after the finals proper is in large part to answer for the disappointing turnout.

And if it's the sex comedy aspect that scares people away for the current match, allow me to point out that the Spanish choice is no more risqué than your average American teen comedy. In fact, the sex aspect in Torremolinos is rather lowkey and is merely used as a vehicle to tell the rather interesting story of a society undergoing the pains of transition. Factor in the delights of a wonderful Bergman homage with Mads Mikkelsen presiding over the festivities and watching this should a no-brainer.
Last edited by monty on March 15th, 2017, 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#7

Post by monty » March 15th, 2017, 2:06 pm

brokenface on Mar 15 2017, 07:36:59 AM wrote:To me, it's simply a case of do I wanna commit 4 hrs to watching these 2 films when there's nothing at stake, they don't look particularly appealing and no-one saying much positive about them? I mean, I think tommy even said in the thread that he hadn't yet watched the film he nominated himself!
Well, with the exception of Mario, the Spanish choice has gotten well above average reviews here (peaking @7.5 courtesy of beaver).
Then there's reviews like DVDBeaver's:
Based on a true story, “Torremolinos 73” is one of the best films ever made on the subject of making film, more precisely artistic vision vs. commercial interests. An overlooked gem about cinema.
As for the Egyptian choice, it's an official check and I don't think you need reminding that for a helluva lot of people here that in itself is motivation enough to watch it.
Last edited by monty on March 15th, 2017, 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#8

Post by brokenface » March 15th, 2017, 2:28 pm

monty on Mar 15 2017, 08:06:15 AM wrote:
brokenface on Mar 15 2017, 07:36:59 AM wrote:To me, it's simply a case of do I wanna commit 4 hrs to watching these 2 films when there's nothing at stake, they don't look particularly appealing and no-one saying much positive about them? I mean, I think tommy even said in the thread that he hadn't yet watched the film he nominated himself!
Well, with the exception of Mario, the Spanish choice has gotten well above average reviews here (peaking @7.5 courtesy of beaver).
Then there's reviews like DVDBeaver's:
Based on a true story, “Torremolinos 73” is one of the best films ever made on the subject of making film, more precisely artistic vision vs. commercial interests. An overlooked gem about cinema.
As for the Egyptian choice, it's an official check and I don't think you need reminding that for a helluva lot of people here that in itself is motivation enough to watch it.
Sure, I was just giving personal reasons. I don't watch checks purely for checks as I'm not interested in overall rankings (I do work on some specific official lists and also generally try to watch films on multiple lists, i.e. 3+).

Might get to Torremolinos one day, I do like Blancanieves from same director. but if I'm not participating in the round then it doesn't immediately leap to the top of my v.long watchlist. The response has hardly been overwhelming; only a couple of people wrote anything about it, and people who've rated it put it mostly in the lukewarm range around 6/10

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#9

Post by monty » March 15th, 2017, 2:44 pm

brokenface on Mar 15 2017, 08:28:43 AM wrote:The response has hardly been overwhelming; only a couple of people wrote anything about it, and people who've rated it put it mostly in the lukewarm range around 6/10
Well, that's been the mode all throughout the cup. People generally just list the films without any comment. Also, those who rated it mostly gave it a 6.5, which in my book is far from lukewarm (that I'd reserve for ratings five point five and less)

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#10

Post by sortile9io » March 15th, 2017, 2:56 pm

I think this question will be better addressed along with others (that might influence the answer to this one) when we start organising the next season. The participants might be even be different by then.

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#11

Post by Gershwin » March 15th, 2017, 3:21 pm

I completely share brokenface's reasons etc. Might watch Torremolinos '73 one day, but no hurry, and the match doesn't look very appealing.
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#12

Post by monty » March 15th, 2017, 3:26 pm

Well, there were plenty matches before this one that looked plenty unappealing. Still, they garnered a pretty decent turnout. I think placing the bronze final after the finals proper was a mistake because as soon as the overall winner has been declared a cup fatigue sets in.
Last edited by monty on March 15th, 2017, 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#13

Post by Lonewolf2003 » March 15th, 2017, 5:54 pm

The descision to do it after the final does play a big part in the low turn out, I agree.

But the match isn't over yet. Often there is a run of voters in the last days.

For what it's worth; I already seen the Spanish entry and thought it was decent.

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#14

Post by joachimt » March 15th, 2017, 9:00 pm

Because the votes were so split up in the poll about this match, I thought it would be unfair to skip it altogether. Some people wanted it. Other people didn't want it and clearly expressed they didn't want to wait another two weeks before the final started. That's why I decided to do it after the final.

Last year we did it the other way around:
3rd place: 26 votes
final: 35 votes
So the participation was a lot lower in 3rd place match then as well. Let's see where the numbers end this time.

Maybe it is caused by the order of the matches, maybe not. I was even hesitating myself to watch this match. The reason for my hesitations (and others may have decided to skip for this reason) was not the presence of a sex comedy, but the fact that both managers didn't try to pick the best movie possible. Last year the managers in that match tried to pick winners. This year that clearly wasn't case.
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#15

Post by monty » March 15th, 2017, 10:31 pm

You made a bad decision in moving the final ahead of the bronze match, Joachim, just own it. In the current poll, doing it your way comes out on bottom, as you can see for yourself.
Personally, I really made an effort to single out the very best film in the sex comedy genre, and need I remind you that we had a poll in favour of going with that very genre for the bronze round? I think most of the moaning about this match comes from disgruntled users who hate even the slightest whiff of sex comedy and still haven't gotten over losing in the poll.

Also, though Tommy might not have seen his film beforehand, it is an official check and it has a good IMDb rating - both are surely elements which factored into his choosing it. I certainly think he did try to pick a decent nom - claiming otherwise is rather disrespectful methinks...
Last edited by monty on March 15th, 2017, 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#16

Post by mjf314 » March 16th, 2017, 5:36 am

How do you know the participation is low? It's not over yet. I'm planning to vote.

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#17

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 16th, 2017, 5:43 am

I may or may not watch the films, but it's not to do with being scheduled after the final. I voted I don't care in the other poll for what that's worth.

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#18

Post by metaller » March 16th, 2017, 9:09 am

I consider not finishing the round, but not on principle, but because Kit-Kat really feels like a chore. Watched 40 minutes, paused it and I don't look forward to finsihing it at all.

In general I'm for a third place match, but before the final match. Just like in the real football world cup, the bronze match is before the final because would it be afterward, there would be less interest because it would be an afterthought to the climax of the big match. The other way round it leads to actually more hype, as a nice appetizer for the big feast.
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#19

Post by tommy_leazaq » March 16th, 2017, 9:27 am

joachimt on Mar 15 2017, 03:00:52 PM wrote:but the fact that both managers didn't try to pick the best movie possible. Last year the managers in that match tried to pick winners. This year that clearly wasn't case.
Excuse me, you are talking about the highest ranked elegible film, not only among Egyptian films but also the whole Arabian nations. -_-

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#20

Post by mjf314 » March 16th, 2017, 9:43 am

I propose a new rule for the upcoming comedy world cup: Before you vote in a match, you must live in the country for at least a year in order to better understand its sense of humor. Of course, each match will have to last 2 years, so that everyone will be able to vote. In about 50 years we'll finally know which country has the best sense of humor.

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#21

Post by HVM » March 16th, 2017, 10:06 am

metaller on Mar 16 2017, 03:09:43 AM wrote:I consider not finishing the round, but not on principle, but because Kit-Kat really feels like a chore. Watched 40 minutes, paused it and I don't look forward to finsihing it at all.
That's why you check it first, for the extra push! (41:27 in, then switched to tennis)
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#22

Post by joachimt » March 16th, 2017, 11:26 am

monty on Mar 15 2017, 04:31:02 PM wrote:You made a bad decision in moving the final ahead of the bronze match, Joachim, just own it. In the current poll, doing it your way comes out on bottom, as you can see for yourself.
Personally, I really made an effort to single out the very best film in the sex comedy genre, and need I remind you that we had a poll in favour of going with that very genre for the bronze round? I think most of the moaning about this match comes from disgruntled users who hate even the slightest whiff of sex comedy and still haven't gotten over losing in the poll.

Also, though Tommy might not have seen his film beforehand, it is an official check and it has a good IMDb rating - both are surely elements which factored into his choosing it. I certainly think he did try to pick a decent nom - claiming otherwise is rather disrespectful methinks...
Sure, whatever. I just don't see the point of having another poll at this moment. Why are we still discussing it? It's too late anyway.

Where is the poll in which was decided to do a sex comedy round? I surely didn't vote in favor of that.
Last edited by joachimt on March 16th, 2017, 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#23

Post by monty » March 16th, 2017, 1:45 pm

joachimt on Mar 16 2017, 05:26:39 AM wrote:
monty on Mar 15 2017, 04:31:02 PM wrote:You made a bad decision in moving the final ahead of the bronze match, Joachim, just own it. In the current poll, doing it your way comes out on bottom, as you can see for yourself.
Personally, I really made an effort to single out the very best film in the sex comedy genre, and need I remind you that we had a poll in favour of going with that very genre for the bronze round? I think most of the moaning about this match comes from disgruntled users who hate even the slightest whiff of sex comedy and still haven't gotten over losing in the poll.

Also, though Tommy might not have seen his film beforehand, it is an official check and it has a good IMDb rating - both are surely elements which factored into his choosing it. I certainly think he did try to pick a decent nom - claiming otherwise is rather disrespectful methinks...
Sure, whatever. I just don't see the point of having another poll at this moment. Why are we still discussing it? It's too late anyway.

Where is the poll in which was decided to do a sex comedy round? I surely didn't vote in favor of that.
We're having this discussion because measures obviously need to be taken to avoid a repeat of the bad decision regarding the ordering of matches.

As for the sex comedy poll, it's here - dunno how it escaped your attention. A slim majority wanted a sex comedy, which is what they got. Kudos to you for watching it even though you don't favour this genre - if only those who were against having a (sex) comedy would be as sporting instead of just complaining...

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#24

Post by joachimt » March 16th, 2017, 2:59 pm

monty on Mar 15 2017, 07:43:42 AM wrote:
brokenface on Mar 15 2017, 07:36:59 AM wrote:There was a poll. People voted against having it. Hence low turnout.
It's not that simple. The noes won by one measly vote. Also, 10 voted they were fine either way. Where are they now?
Funny. You commented on this poll that the difference was very small, but you still conclude from the sex comedy poll that it was the right decision to have a sex comedy round. Both times it's 1 vote difference. :ermm:

Second, having a poll now for a match that will probably take place at least 1.5 years from now, is very much getting ahead of things.

Third, I hardly see anyone complaining about the match...... except one.
Last edited by joachimt on March 16th, 2017, 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#25

Post by monty » March 16th, 2017, 3:17 pm

brokenface on Feb 20 2017, 11:52:08 AM wrote:
joachimt on Feb 20 2017, 07:13:56 AM wrote:Votes are split up:
9x yes
11x no
10x fine either way

So let's do the final first and afterwards the 3rd-place match. Anyone who's not interested can just ignore it.

I'll start a new topic for the finals in a few moments.
Last time I checked, 11 was a bigger number than 9 :mw_confused:
Sure, but this is no election where 1 vote decides.
sortile9io on Feb 20 2017, 11:55:45 AM wrote:The royal power of veto. :folded:
Exactly. :rolleyes:

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#26

Post by monty » March 16th, 2017, 3:22 pm

I'm sure you remember the above quotes of yours, J.
You unilaterally decided to have a bronze match even in the face of a poll going against it - who are you to complain about me giving a simple majority their wish for a sex comedy round? At least I had the numbers on my side, which is more than can be said about you...

As for having this poll, I don't see anything wrong with testing the waters now. Are you against people discussing this and planning well ahead of time?
Last edited by monty on March 16th, 2017, 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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