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Summing up Season 2 of the iCM World Cup - Lessons Learnt and the Way Ahead

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monty
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Summing up Season 2 of the iCM World Cup - Lessons Learnt an

#1

Post by monty » March 11th, 2017, 1:23 am

So I guess time has come to take stock of this season's Cup. What films made the most impact on you overall? Did you gain any new favorites/dislikes? What films were you most disappointed by? What countries surprised you the most?
Anything that should be done differently for the next season? Should managers be allowed to vote? Should the host have a vote or should he remain impartial? Should there be genre limitations for rounds? Should more/less countries take part or is the current number perfect?
Last edited by monty on March 11th, 2017, 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#2

Post by Mario Gaborović » March 11th, 2017, 1:32 am

1) I think next time should be more countries, but also wait for longer break as well. Regional cups feel too exclusive and tasteless.
Also 4 films in the group instead of 3, but only one advancing would force managers to pick as better film as possible. Thus competition would be fierce indeed.

2) I was truly disappointed with Japanese R2 film, Fisshu sutôrî. The Colombian Vendedora de rosas was biggest surprise.

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#3

Post by monty » March 11th, 2017, 1:38 am

To me, haivng three countries in the first round is competition tough enough. Managers on the whole do try to pick the best film possible and that certainly goes double for the first group stage. Facing a single adversary later on allows for more adventuresome choices, which I find keep things interesting as it avoids relying on just canonical films. Say what you will about Fisshu sutôrî, it certainly was an unorthodox choice and should be applauded as that's the approach that has the highest potential to unearth gems.
Last edited by monty on March 11th, 2017, 2:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#4

Post by tommy_leazaq » March 11th, 2017, 4:23 am

Fish story song was awesome. If only it hadn't up against even awesomer Postman from Egypt. I'd have gone for it.

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#5

Post by monty » March 11th, 2017, 4:33 am

tommy_leazaq on Mar 10 2017, 09:23:38 PM wrote:Fish story song was awesome.
So was it your fav discovery in the whole cup then?

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#6

Post by tommy_leazaq » March 11th, 2017, 4:57 am

monty on Mar 10 2017, 09:33:31 PM wrote:
tommy_leazaq on Mar 10 2017, 09:23:38 PM wrote:Fish story song was awesome.
So was it your fav discovery in the whole cup then?
The song was cool but as a whole movie, not.

These are my new favorite films that I wouldn't have watched any time in near future if not for this cup.

Tiger Bay
Yoyo (and Pierre Etaix)
H8

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#7

Post by weirdboy » March 11th, 2017, 6:10 am

I really liked Araya as a choice and would not mind seeing some more documentaries in future world cups.


Having seen Sonagi in the WC made me understand the scene in My Sassy Girl where they are poking fun at that.

I also liked Court as a selection and was happy to see a modern Indian film that was quite a departure from typical Bollywood.

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#8

Post by Lonewolf2003 » March 11th, 2017, 11:51 am

It mostly was the cup that renewed my interest in Italian cinema to me.

I'm for fewer countries next time, with only KO matches maybe. I think the cup now takes too long overall; lasting more than a year
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#9

Post by monty » March 11th, 2017, 12:05 pm

How many fewer countries? And ideally, for how long should a cup go on?

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#10

Post by Lonewolf2003 » March 11th, 2017, 12:24 pm

16 or 32, with only KO.
Less than a year.
(I didn't do the math, so maybe 32 would take even longer)
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#11

Post by sortile9io » March 11th, 2017, 12:31 pm

Yeah, far too long. I would replace our current 16*3 first round with an 8*4 where the first two countries of each group advance to the next stage. Subsequent rounds would be the same except for the bronze match, which I would also discard, using overall scores to determine third and fourth positions instead. All in all that would mean going from 80 to 62 films and saving several weeks (I haven't made the calculations). Thus we may even fit the whole tournament in a single year span and set a fixed date for its beginning every year.
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#12

Post by sortile9io » March 11th, 2017, 12:41 pm

Another drawback of using so many countries in each season is that those with a humble cinematic production will sooner than later run out of competitive candidates (because films of previous seasons can't be reused). Their role will be basically filling up the available slots with films of lower interest thus making the competition less attractive.

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#13

Post by klaus78 » March 11th, 2017, 12:54 pm

^ Sounds good to me.


My top three new discoveries of the cup: La vendedora de rosas, Hyènes and Io la conoscevo bene.
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#14

Post by beavis » March 11th, 2017, 1:04 pm

Sweden - A Swedish Love Story - 9,5
Hungary - Love - 9
Cuba - Memorias del Subdesarrollo - 9

These were the best movies in the Cup for me this time around
I had seen all of them before though
No great discoveries like Reconstituirea last time, still I really enjoyed this
and 'perfect participation' too this time!

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#15

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » March 11th, 2017, 6:40 pm

sortile9io on Mar 11 2017, 05:31:42 AM wrote:Yeah, far too long. I would replace our current 16*3 first round with an 8*4 where the first two countries of each group advance to the next stage. Subsequent rounds would be the same except for the bronze match, which I would also discard, using overall scores to determine third and fourth positions instead. All in all that would mean going from 80 to 62 films and saving several weeks (I haven't made the calculations). Thus we may even fit the whole tournament in a single year span and set a fixed date for its beginning every year.
I've been thinking along these exact same lines.
4 weeks per group, 1.5 week overlap would be 21.5 weeks for Round 1
Round 2 same as now 12.5 weeks
Quarters: 6.5
Semi: 3.5
Finals: 3.5
That's about 48 weeks. With prep time between rounds it would be tight, but could be fit in a year.

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#16

Post by RBG » March 11th, 2017, 6:58 pm

my favorites: i compagni and il posto :clap: even tho i joined rather late. thx everyone
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#17

Post by weirdboy » March 11th, 2017, 7:01 pm

Even if the countries are reduced, I still think there ought to be some kind of playoff system or something so that we can get other random countries in the mix.

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#18

Post by sortile9io » March 11th, 2017, 8:11 pm

PeacefulAnarchy on Mar 11 2017, 11:40:48 AM wrote:
sortile9io on Mar 11 2017, 05:31:42 AM wrote:Yeah, far too long. I would replace our current 16*3 first round with an 8*4 where the first two countries of each group advance to the next stage. Subsequent rounds would be the same except for the bronze match, which I would also discard, using overall scores to determine third and fourth positions instead. All in all that would mean going from 80 to 62 films and saving several weeks (I haven't made the calculations). Thus we may even fit the whole tournament in a single year span and set a fixed date for its beginning every year.
I've been thinking along these exact same lines.
4 weeks per group, 1.5 week overlap would be 21.5 weeks for Round 1
Round 2 same as now 12.5 weeks
Quarters: 6.5
Semi: 3.5
Finals: 3.5
That's about 48 weeks. With prep time between rounds it would be tight, but could be fit in a year.
46 weeks if we drop the bronze match. I think there would be time for preparations but hardly any to breathe between consecutive seasons. And I think that's pretty important.

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#19

Post by Mario Gaborović » March 11th, 2017, 8:20 pm

weirdboy on Mar 11 2017, 12:01:56 PM wrote:Even if the countries are reduced, I still think there ought to be some kind of playoff system or something so that we can get other random countries in the mix.
Maybe there should be mandatory 6 new countries.

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#20

Post by blocho » March 11th, 2017, 8:56 pm

Excluding the movies I'd already seen and already knew were fantastic (Ship of Theseus, Araya, my choices), the best movie of the World Cup for me was Los Santos Inocentes.

However, I confess that after August I couldn't keep up with watching the movies. The work load at my new job simply defeated me. The biggest disappointment for me was Memories of Underdevelopment. I've loved Alea since seeing La Ultima Cena about 15 years ago. I thought I would feel the same about the movie most regard as his masterpiece, but mostly I was indifferent and bored.

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#21

Post by toro913 » March 12th, 2017, 2:39 pm

Biggest Surprises:
The Creamator
Memories of Underdevelopment
Court
Main Street

Least Liked:
Pegasus
Havana Suite
Handcuffs
Independence
Young Aphrodites

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#22

Post by monty » March 14th, 2017, 4:23 pm

If we're to have a bronze final next time, I think it'd be best to have it before the final as participation otherwise seems to take a nosedive.

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#23

Post by joachimt » March 14th, 2017, 4:28 pm

monty on Mar 14 2017, 10:23:55 AM wrote:If we're to have a bronze final next time, I think it'd be best to have it before the final as participation otherwise seems to take a nosedive.
I wonder if the order of the matches is the cause. :whistling:
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#24

Post by monty » March 14th, 2017, 4:37 pm

joachimt on Mar 14 2017, 10:28:01 AM wrote:
monty on Mar 14 2017, 10:23:55 AM wrote:If we're to have a bronze final next time, I think it'd be best to have it before the final as participation otherwise seems to take a nosedive.
I wonder if the order of the matches is the cause. :whistling:
Of course, it could be down to those prudish Americans here who are offended by the slightest hint of nude flesh (even though my nom features less of that than the average American teen comedy does). Nonetheless, I find it hard to explain the big drop in participation levels by that alone. I still think the match order has to take a big chunk of the blame.
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#25

Post by joachimt » March 14th, 2017, 4:42 pm

monty on Mar 14 2017, 10:37:56 AM wrote:
joachimt on Mar 14 2017, 10:28:01 AM wrote:
monty on Mar 14 2017, 10:23:55 AM wrote:If we're to have a bronze final next time, I think it'd be best to have it before the final as participation otherwise seems to take a nosedive.
I wonder if the order of the matches is the cause. :whistling:
Of course, it could be down to those prudish Americans here who are offended by the slightest hint of nude flesh (even though my nom features less of that than the average American teen comedy does). Nonetheless, I find it hard to explain the big drop in participation levels by that alone. I still think the match order has to take a big chunk of the blame.
Surely it couldn't have been the lukewarm to outright negative responses so far. :whistling:
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#26

Post by monty » March 14th, 2017, 4:48 pm

joachimt on Mar 14 2017, 10:42:17 AM wrote:
monty on Mar 14 2017, 10:37:56 AM wrote:
joachimt on Mar 14 2017, 10:28:01 AM wrote:I wonder if the order of the matches is the cause. :whistling:
Of course, it could be down to those prudish Americans here who are offended by the slightest hint of nude flesh (even though my nom features less of that than the average American teen comedy does). Nonetheless, I find it hard to explain the big drop in participation levels by that alone. I still think the match order has to take a big chunk of the blame.
Surely it couldn't have been the lukewarm to outright negative responses so far. :whistling:
Haven't had much negative feedback on the Spanish nom, apart from Mario's no-sex-please crusade.
Actually, I wish more would say how they felt about the films rather than just ranking them.
Also, casual participants here may be misled by the match order into thinking that the Cup is over when in reality there's still one more match to go. IMO, next year we should either do away with the bronze final or move it ahead of the final.
Last edited by monty on March 14th, 2017, 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#27

Post by tommy_leazaq » March 14th, 2017, 7:37 pm

We should done away with the third place match. I don't see any point in it. Just save two weeks.

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#28

Post by Lonewolf2003 » March 14th, 2017, 8:40 pm

monty on Mar 14 2017, 10:23:55 AM wrote:If we're to have a bronze final next time, I think it'd be best to have it before the final as participation otherwise seems to take a nosedive.
Agree

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#29

Post by joachimt » September 22nd, 2017, 12:31 pm

Any interest in a third season yet?
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#31

Post by Mario Gaborović » September 22nd, 2017, 1:03 pm

Sure; if I got it right, we agreed last year to hold it around this, autumn season.

(I have one suggestion, though; maybe we can raise the bar at <1200 checks, since the forum became more popular and many films gained new checks & some good ones crossed that line)

Too bad zhangalan is rarely around, he started the whole thing. :(
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#32

Post by tommy_leazaq » September 22nd, 2017, 1:13 pm

I'd wish we follow the same schedule pattern just like second season: The matches start from January 2018. So we'll have the finals at March-April 2019. Then 5-6 month break. Then the next season. And so on. So I guess the preparation threads and stuff can start from mid October or around.

Just suggestion.

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#33

Post by joachimt » September 22nd, 2017, 2:35 pm

I was thinking about starting in January as well. First we need to decide some things, before we start preparing the actual WC.

I'll start some polls about it this weekend. Which things should we decide?
1. How many countries? (which countries can be decided later)
2. Pace of the schedule?
3. Changes in schedule? Partly depends on Q1 or Q1 depends on this. First round KO? Or first round 4 countries?
4. Check-threshold?

Any other questions I should include in the polls?
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#34

Post by sortile9io » September 22nd, 2017, 3:30 pm

0. Do you want to change something? Yes/No. In the answer is "Yes" proceed to polls 1-N otherwise go straight to the preparation stage (managers sign-up, countries, pots, etc.). Because maybe there's no need to go again through the same series of polls and discussions we've had before.

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#35

Post by weirdboy » September 22nd, 2017, 4:11 pm

I will repeat my desire to introduce more "random" countries into the mix--I had many pleasant surprises from the wildcard entries.

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#36

Post by Lonewolf2003 » September 22nd, 2017, 5:11 pm

January seems like a great time to start indeed. Which makes now a good time to start the preparations discussion.

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#37

Post by zuma » September 22nd, 2017, 5:33 pm

joachimt on Sep 22 2017, 06:31:30 AM wrote:Any interest in a third season yet?
Yes!!

Though of this a couple times these past few weeks.

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#38

Post by Mario Gaborović » September 22nd, 2017, 5:36 pm

Lonewolf2003 on Sep 22 2017, 11:11:10 AM wrote:January seems like a great time to start indeed. Which makes now a good time to start the preparations discussion.
- Season 2 batch of 80 films was definitely better than Season 1, so learn from it.
- Invite new members to join and manage already from introduction page, I guess they'd be glad.
- Somebody take Switzerland & Bulgaria this time dammit.
- We can live without Senegal third time, can't we.

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#39

Post by beavis » September 22nd, 2017, 5:43 pm

I shouted about it a while ago
definite yes
for me this is the best thing to participate in on the forum (the challenges don't really fit with my own plans/schedule, and I haven't found the time to give weekly updates on all my viewings, the world cup is a very managable amount of "work" and so most fun to keep up with)

It has been the case that with most round I've already seen 50-75% of the movies (my own problem of course) so the time schedule could be a little tighter for me... but otherwise I have no need to change the format at all

If people would like to do mini-cups limited to continents of genre's first... or somethings like that... that would be something I'd like to participate in too. But don't make it bigger than it already is

So, yes!, lets get the ball rolling on this
good work Joachimt :)
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#40

Post by beavis » September 22nd, 2017, 5:52 pm

maybe already start in the Christmas vacation instead of January 1st (or at least have the selection be known by then), so I (we) could plan the selected movies into our own scedules at an even more relaxed pace (I'd like to use that free time to get a bit of a head start, especially in round one, so it doesn't become a chore later on)

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