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iCM Forum's Highest Rated Movies

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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iCM Forum's Highest Rated Movies

#641

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » December 2nd, 2015, 3:40 am

mjf314 on Dec 1 2015, 08:31:24 PM wrote:
themagician on Dec 1 2015, 08:23:05 PM wrote:I don't want to mess with people's ratings. An 8 is an 8 is an 8. Who am I to decide their rating shouldn't count as 8...
You can do what Criticker does (convert ratings into tiers), although Criticker's method also has problems, so it's probably better to leave it the way it is.
Criticker allows people to rate on a wider scale, though. Using tiers when people are only rating on a 10 pt scale is less meaningful.

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#642

Post by greenhorg » December 2nd, 2015, 4:09 am

I don't want to mess with people's ratings. An 8 is an 8 is an 8. Who am I to decide their rating shouldn't count as 8...

While I don't have an exact solution, 'change it' isn't quite what I was getting at.

For example, my ratings don't match up to IMDb ratings. My average score is 5*, while the average movie rating on IMDb is 7.3. So if I give a movie a 7 it's in the top 12% of what I've seen, but this typically lowers the scores of movies I like on IMDb, where 7 represents the bottom 49% of what others have seen. This is sad to me, but I feel like my ranking system is more correct, and I'm not going to modify it for expediency (much less try to give "strategic" ratings at IMDb to raise or lower the ratings based solely on their current score... the old 10-or-1 maneuver).

So closer to what I was getting at was simply taking each person's percentile score for each of their ten star ratings, and using that instead. Then my 7 would more accurately match up to someone else's 9 or whatever.


*Actually 5.5, with most of my ratings being 5s and 6s (low average/high average), with about 10% four and below, and 10% 7 and above.
Last edited by greenhorg on December 2nd, 2015, 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#643

Post by mjf314 » December 2nd, 2015, 4:21 am

greenhorg on Dec 1 2015, 09:09:00 PM wrote:So closer to what I was getting at was simply taking each person's percentile score for each of their ten star ratings, and using that instead. Then my 7 would more accurately match up to someone else's 9 or whatever.
That's similar to what Criticker does, and has the same problem.

Suppose that my median rating is 7, so it's the 50th percentile, but for someone else, 7 is the 90th percentile. What if my 7 is just as good as the other person's 7 (in terms of enjoyment)? Maybe I watch fewer bad movies that the other person because I'm more careful about what I watch. It doesn't seem fair that my 7s should hurt the average and the other person's 7s should help the average.

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#644

Post by mightysparks » December 2nd, 2015, 4:34 am

mjf314 on Dec 1 2015, 09:21:59 PM wrote:Maybe I watch fewer bad movies that the other person because I'm more careful about what I watch
Or you are easier to please :turned:

I'm not fussed about the ratings thing, although mine are in the low end like greenhorg's, but it could be interesting to see how such a list turns out...
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#645

Post by greenhorg » December 2nd, 2015, 4:44 am

It's worth considering the drawbacks of different ranking methods and how they might be combined to compensate for their respective weaknesses.

The forum has two ranking methods, combining IMDb score averages and combining ranked lists of favorites, and they give somewhat different results, even though most of the same people are involved. With the ranked favorites 2001: A Space Odyssey came out on top, but with IMDb scores it's in 44th place! Why? Which is more accurate?

What if we take all the same people and all the same movies and submit them to Flickchart style choices? Which methods would generate more agreement?
Last edited by greenhorg on December 2nd, 2015, 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#646

Post by mjf314 » December 2nd, 2015, 4:48 am

mightysparks on Dec 1 2015, 09:34:29 PM wrote:
mjf314 on Dec 1 2015, 09:21:59 PM wrote:Maybe I watch fewer bad movies that the other person because I'm more careful about what I watch
Or you are easier to please :turned:
Or maybe I watch less horror than other people.

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#647

Post by mjf314 » December 2nd, 2015, 4:58 am

greenhorg on Dec 1 2015, 09:44:59 PM wrote:With the ranked favorites 2001: A Space Odyssey came out on top, but with IMDb scores it's in 44th place! Why? Which is more accurate?
How do you define accurate? What's the "correct" way to decide the forum's favorite film? 2001 is a more divisive film than 12 Angry Men, but 2001 has more people who consider it one of the greatest films of all time.

A more extreme (made up) example:

FilmA's ratings: 10, 10, 10, 10, 1, 1
FilmB's ratings: 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7

Which film deserves a higher spot on the list?

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#648

Post by mightysparks » December 2nd, 2015, 5:02 am

mjf314 on Dec 1 2015, 09:48:26 PM wrote:
mightysparks on Dec 1 2015, 09:34:29 PM wrote:
mjf314 on Dec 1 2015, 09:21:59 PM wrote:Maybe I watch fewer bad movies that the other person because I'm more careful about what I watch
Or you are easier to please :turned:
Or maybe I watch less horror than other people.
That could make your ratings even higher.
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#649

Post by tommy_leazaq » December 3rd, 2015, 4:33 am

I don't find any India, Iran, Israel's films in Top 250 ASIA list though there are films in Top 1000 overall with better avg scores.. Any reasons ??
Last edited by tommy_leazaq on December 3rd, 2015, 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#650

Post by xianjiro » December 3rd, 2015, 6:13 am

themagician on Dec 1 2015, 08:23:05 PM wrote:(clipped)

I don't want to mess with people's ratings. An 8 is an 8 is an 8. Who am I to decide their rating shouldn't count as 8...
IMDb didn't provide guidance on the meaning of their star system - for better or worse. I developed my own criteria, but also admit to getting harsher in my ratings over the years. That said, while I might not agree with a given movie rating (even when IMDb applies their formula to thousands of votes) my belief is, in the long term, it basically works out to create a popular based rating system.

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#651

Post by themagician » December 3rd, 2015, 12:20 pm

tommy_leazaq on Dec 2 2015, 09:33:01 PM wrote:I don't find any India, Iran, Israel's films in Top 250 ASIA list though there are films in Top 1000 overall with better avg scores.. Any reasons ??
When I made the Asian list I chose countries only from Eastern/Southeastern Asia as mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography ... a_for_Asia. Reason being that when I think of Asia I think of those countries. And I felt like if I included all of those countries it would be too many and too wide range and I wanted that list to be concentrated if that makes sense. And for instance Russia is in the European list already so I don't want to include it in the Asian list as well.

If there's support for including more countries in the Asian list I can do that but I can also make another list with those remaining Asian countries which is what I'd prefer. Just let me know which countries you want to include.

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#652

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 3rd, 2015, 1:13 pm

xianjiro on Dec 2 2015, 11:13:50 PM wrote:
themagician on Dec 1 2015, 08:23:05 PM wrote:(clipped)

I don't want to mess with people's ratings. An 8 is an 8 is an 8. Who am I to decide their rating shouldn't count as 8...
IMDb didn't provide guidance on the meaning of their star system - for better or worse. I developed my own criteria, but also admit to getting harsher in my ratings over the years. That said, while I might not agree with a given movie rating (even when IMDb applies their formula to thousands of votes) my belief is, in the long term, it basically works out to create a popular based rating system.
That works with the amount of votes on imdb self, but less with just the few numbers of votes here. The effect of a 6 (that's really a 8) is much higher of course with just 5 votes (or even 96) then with 1000 votes.
I'm not pro tweaking peoples rating. Don't know how that should work. But it's a legitimate concern.

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#653

Post by tommy_leazaq » December 3rd, 2015, 2:02 pm

themagician on Dec 3 2015, 05:20:40 AM wrote:
tommy_leazaq on Dec 2 2015, 09:33:01 PM wrote:I don't find any India, Iran, Israel's films in Top 250 ASIA list though there are films in Top 1000 overall with better avg scores.. Any reasons ??
When I made the Asian list I chose countries only from Eastern/Southeastern Asia as mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography ... a_for_Asia. Reason being that when I think of Asia I think of those countries. And I felt like if I included all of those countries it would be too many and too wide range and I wanted that list to be concentrated if that makes sense. And for instance Russia is in the European list already so I don't want to include it in the Asian list as well.

If there's support for including more countries in the Asian list I can do that but I can also make another list with those remaining Asian countries which is what I'd prefer. Just let me know which countries you want to include.
Why not Top 500 Asia? Anyway, I'd prefer a list from other major Asian countries as well. So no problem if it is a separate one.

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#654

Post by themagician » December 3rd, 2015, 2:21 pm

tommy_leazaq on Dec 3 2015, 07:02:58 AM wrote:
themagician on Dec 3 2015, 05:20:40 AM wrote:
tommy_leazaq on Dec 2 2015, 09:33:01 PM wrote:I don't find any India, Iran, Israel's films in Top 250 ASIA list though there are films in Top 1000 overall with better avg scores.. Any reasons ??
When I made the Asian list I chose countries only from Eastern/Southeastern Asia as mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography ... a_for_Asia. Reason being that when I think of Asia I think of those countries. And I felt like if I included all of those countries it would be too many and too wide range and I wanted that list to be concentrated if that makes sense. And for instance Russia is in the European list already so I don't want to include it in the Asian list as well.

If there's support for including more countries in the Asian list I can do that but I can also make another list with those remaining Asian countries which is what I'd prefer. Just let me know which countries you want to include.
Why not Top 500 Asia? Anyway, I'd prefer a list from other major Asian countries as well. So no problem if it is a separate one.
Actually the filename for the Asian list already says "easternasia" so I just renamed the list (will update on Sunday).

If you mean top 500 for the current list it's because there's only 435 entries and the last film only has a rating of 2.83333... We could make it top 500 if Japan was included but then over half of it would just be Japan which is why it's a separate list.

I tried making a middle eastern list when I made these lists but there were only a few films with 5 votes so it actually might not be possible to create a new list for the rest of Asia.

If you want to make a new list or modify an existing list then I need a list of countries.

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#655

Post by Fergenaprido » December 3rd, 2015, 2:37 pm

themagician on Dec 3 2015, 05:20:40 AM wrote:
tommy_leazaq on Dec 2 2015, 09:33:01 PM wrote:I don't find any India, Iran, Israel's films in Top 250 ASIA list though there are films in Top 1000 overall with better avg scores.. Any reasons ??
When I made the Asian list I chose countries only from Eastern/Southeastern Asia as mentioned here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography ... a_for_Asia. Reason being that when I think of Asia I think of those countries. And I felt like if I included all of those countries it would be too many and too wide range and I wanted that list to be concentrated if that makes sense. And for instance Russia is in the European list already so I don't want to include it in the Asian list as well.

If there's support for including more countries in the Asian list I can do that but I can also make another list with those remaining Asian countries which is what I'd prefer. Just let me know which countries you want to include.
If you're using that wiki page as a reference, then I would suggest one of two things.
a) Change the name to be Top 250 of Eastern Asia Already done
b) add at least Central Asian and South Asian countries to the list. With West Asia, there are a lot of intricacies (do you include Turkish or Caucasus films in the European list?), but I would argue strongly for Iran to be included in the Asian list as well.

Edit: replied at the same time as themagician.
Last edited by Fergenaprido on December 3rd, 2015, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#656

Post by tommy_leazaq » December 3rd, 2015, 2:38 pm

themagician on Dec 3 2015, 07:21:46 AM wrote:If you want to make a new list or modify an existing list then I need a list of countries.
As far as I know only India, Iran and to some extent Israel are the major countries left (Maybe Turkey? Is it in Europe?). Cant we include these countries alone and let the list stay at 250 itself, with the bottom of current list movies dropping off? Or include them and increase the list length to 300 or something, so that the lowest country has a decent rating (6.25 ? )

I'm fine with a separate list like top 75/100 of these countries too.

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#657

Post by themagician » December 3rd, 2015, 3:05 pm

Both Turkey (Western Asia) and Kazakhstan (Central Asia) are on the European list. All the countries on this list (scroll down a bit) are on the European list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe#Po ... _geography. And of course countries like Czechoslovakia, Soviet Union, West Germany, and East Germany.

Since Kazakhstan is on the European list the rest of Central Asia can be ignored (no films from those other countries (probably, I'll check)). Northern Asia can also be ignored since Russia is on the European list. So only Southern Asia and a large part of Western Asia (countries not on European list) remain. I'll make a list with those countries later to see if we can make it into its own list. I'll also wait for other opinions before doing anything.

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#658

Post by themagician » December 3rd, 2015, 4:48 pm

We could make a top 100 Southern/Western Asia list: http://themagician.host56.com/asiatop100.html

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#659

Post by tommy_leazaq » December 4th, 2015, 5:53 am

Thanks Magician..

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#660

Post by xianjiro » December 4th, 2015, 9:52 am

Lonewolf2003 on Dec 3 2015, 06:13:18 AM wrote:
xianjiro on Dec 2 2015, 11:13:50 PM wrote:
themagician on Dec 1 2015, 08:23:05 PM wrote:(clipped)

I don't want to mess with people's ratings. An 8 is an 8 is an 8. Who am I to decide their rating shouldn't count as 8...
IMDb didn't provide guidance on the meaning of their star system - for better or worse. I developed my own criteria, but also admit to getting harsher in my ratings over the years. That said, while I might not agree with a given movie rating (even when IMDb applies their formula to thousands of votes) my belief is, in the long term, it basically works out to create a popular based rating system.
That works with the amount of votes on imdb self, but less with just the few numbers of votes here. The effect of a 6 (that's really a 8) is much higher of course with just 5 votes (or even 96) then with 1000 votes.
I'm not pro tweaking peoples rating. Don't know how that should work. But it's a legitimate concern.
concern is genuinely legitimate and it's worth discussing ideas for making things better as well as leaving them alone.

The other issue, while 5 votes on our ranking might seem insignificant, I'm not sure it's 'statistically insignificant' given the overall size of the sample - would like to have a statistician weigh in. A statistician could also provide insight into 'normalization' since the real problem is we all interpret the 10 star scale differently - the extreme example: those who basically use it as a binary system assigning 1 to disliked films, 10 to liked. How we would normalize such an extreme example against those of us who make use of many or most of the stars escapes me.

The other thing that strikes me, does it really matter where in the top 1000 a given movie falls? Isn't the idea more to find a group of top/popular/outstanding films based on the 'votes' of forum members? I see it as just another way to group the millions of films floating around. It's interesting, but are we even talking about adopting any of these lists as official? If not, then it's really just a very interesting exercise. It provides a compare/contrast against other Top 1000 lists.

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#661

Post by xianjiro » December 4th, 2015, 10:06 am

tommy_leazaq on Dec 3 2015, 07:38:30 AM wrote:
themagician on Dec 3 2015, 07:21:46 AM wrote:If you want to make a new list or modify an existing list then I need a list of countries.
As far as I know only India, Iran and to some extent Israel are the major countries left (Maybe Turkey? Is it in Europe?). Cant we include these countries alone and let the list stay at 250 itself, with the bottom of current list movies dropping off? Or include them and increase the list length to 300 or something, so that the lowest country has a decent rating (6.25 ? )

I'm fine with a separate list like top 75/100 of these countries too.
Personally, while I get the difficulty posed by a country like Turkey (Europe vs Asia) the things I'd look at are where is the bulk of Turkish film industry is (guessing Istanbul - a city spanning Europe and Asia for centuries). But beyond that, and while Turkey has made forays towards the EU and joined major western institutions like NATO, the importance of Islam in Turkish culture and it's influence on Turkish cinema argues for inclusion with other western Asian countries like Iran and the Arab states with cinema industries. If we look at the Islamic countries of western Asia (Pakistan and West), then Iran and Turkey are the leaders.

Israel has, in my mind, much more in common with Europe than it's Muslim neighbors - I'm sure I don't have to explain why - so if Kazakhstan is Europe...

Just some thoughts - I'm comfortable with the lists as they currently exist and don't want to give anyone too many headaches! :)

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#662

Post by tommy_leazaq » December 4th, 2015, 3:43 pm

themagician on Dec 3 2015, 09:48:16 AM wrote:We could make a top 100 Southern/Western Asia list: http://themagician.host56.com/asiatop100.html
I don't find this link in the Index page. Could you add?

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#663

Post by themagician » December 4th, 2015, 5:22 pm

tommy_leazaq on Dec 4 2015, 08:43:35 AM wrote:
themagician on Dec 3 2015, 09:48:16 AM wrote:We could make a top 100 Southern/Western Asia list: http://themagician.host56.com/asiatop100.html
I don't find this link in the Index page. Could you add?
Added.

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#664

Post by cinephage » December 4th, 2015, 5:47 pm

The french tradition of funding movies all over the world has a strange impact on the forum's favorite french movies list...

Even though there is french money in it, movies such as Secrets and Lies, Mulholland Drive or JFK are usually not considered as french by anyone, nor Lang's final Mabuse or Nicholas Ray's Bitter Victory. In these movies, the director, actors, movie language and location are all non-french, so the link is purely financial.

I'm not sure there is a simple solution to this, besides I don't mind people noticing such movies were partly funded by french producers, and I appreciate such diversity in the nationalities of the directors from this list...

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#665

Post by greenhorg » December 5th, 2015, 12:45 pm

I'm not sure there is a simple solution to this

Limit it to French movies where they speak French. QED.

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#666

Post by greenhorg » December 6th, 2015, 10:29 pm

New results today. Remarkably, the only movie seen by all 98 participants is 2001.

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#667

Post by toro913 » December 15th, 2015, 4:17 pm

Any chance on getting a Latin America/South America and Africa lists, pretty please.

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#668

Post by Lonewolf2003 » December 15th, 2015, 5:54 pm

xianjiro on Dec 4 2015, 02:52:33 AM wrote:
Lonewolf2003 on Dec 3 2015, 06:13:18 AM wrote:
xianjiro on Dec 2 2015, 11:13:50 PM wrote:IMDb didn't provide guidance on the meaning of their star system - for better or worse. I developed my own criteria, but also admit to getting harsher in my ratings over the years. That said, while I might not agree with a given movie rating (even when IMDb applies their formula to thousands of votes) my belief is, in the long term, it basically works out to create a popular based rating system.
That works with the amount of votes on imdb self, but less with just the few numbers of votes here. The effect of a 6 (that's really a 8) is much higher of course with just 5 votes (or even 96) then with 1000 votes.
I'm not pro tweaking peoples rating. Don't know how that should work. But it's a legitimate concern.
concern is genuinely legitimate and it's worth discussing ideas for making things better as well as leaving them alone.

The other issue, while 5 votes on our ranking might seem insignificant, I'm not sure it's 'statistically insignificant' given the overall size of the sample - would like to have a statistician weigh in. A statistician could also provide insight into 'normalization' since the real problem is we all interpret the 10 star scale differently - the extreme example: those who basically use it as a binary system assigning 1 to disliked films, 10 to liked. How we would normalize such an extreme example against those of us who make use of many or most of the stars escapes me.

The other thing that strikes me, does it really matter where in the top 1000 a given movie falls? Isn't the idea more to find a group of top/popular/outstanding films based on the 'votes' of forum members? I see it as just another way to group the millions of films floating around. It's interesting, but are we even talking about adopting any of these lists as official? If not, then it's really just a very interesting exercise. It provides a compare/contrast against other Top 1000 lists.
Nobody is talking about adopting these list as official. It is just another list. I see it mostly as a counterpoint mostly to our one favorite list.
Last edited by Lonewolf2003 on December 15th, 2015, 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#669

Post by toro913 » January 19th, 2016, 10:40 pm

Any chance of getting a spreadsheet with all films voted for? Bored at work.

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#670

Post by themagician » January 19th, 2016, 11:01 pm

toro913 on Jan 19 2016, 03:40:01 PM wrote:Any chance of getting a spreadsheet with all films voted for? Bored at work.
You mean feature films with 5 votes or absolutely everything with 1 vote or something else?

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#671

Post by toro913 » January 20th, 2016, 4:10 am

Everything if it's not too much trouble, but beggars can't be choosers.


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#673

Post by toro913 » February 2nd, 2016, 10:06 pm

I will happily settle for feature films with 5 votes :)

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#674

Post by themagician » February 2nd, 2016, 10:57 pm

toro913 on Feb 2 2016, 03:06:59 PM wrote:I will happily settle for feature films with 5 votes :)
Sorry I forgot about it! Here: https://mega.nz/#!SBoGkRpB!dx2WYEBF9nA_ ... YyeJ_VIM3k

I actually can't give you one vote films because a few people sent me their lists privately.

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#675

Post by mightysparks » February 2nd, 2016, 11:11 pm

I wish somebody else would watch that mafia film in the top 10 :whistling:
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#676

Post by toro913 » February 2nd, 2016, 11:19 pm

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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#677

Post by xianjiro » February 3rd, 2016, 6:12 am

-_- The mafia doesn't exist, so how can there be a mafia film in the top 10? ^_^

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#679

Post by Fergenaprido » September 16th, 2016, 3:01 pm

The countries for the regional lists seem a bit off, and none of the lists are properly alphabetized.

Europe
Azerbaijan is listed both here and in Southern/Western Asia.
I would argue that Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan (and maybe Georgia), despite having some territory in Europe, should not be in this list.
The list is missing Yugoslavia, Serbia & Montenegro, Andorra, and Faroe Islands (though probably on Yugoslavia would have films that would make the list).

Eastern Asia
The list is missing Brunei, Myanmar, Cambodia, and Laos (assuming any of the them has a film that would make the list) and lists 'Korea' but not 'North Korea'.

Southern/Western Asia
Azerbaijan is listed in both here and in Europe.
The list is missing Afghanistan and India, but films from these countries show up in the top 250.
The list is missing Bangladesh and Nepal.

It seems you've covered all of Asia except the 5 Central Asian former soviet republics. Maybe add them to the Southern/Western Asia list?

I think these regional lists are great for showcasing cinema from around the world. Would it be too much trouble to make an African list and a Latin American & Caribbean list? Then everyone would be included except USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and other small countries of Oceania. Maybe there could be an Anglophone list, with the big English-Speaking countries (including non-English films from those countries) and move UK & Ireland out of Europe and into this list?

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PeacefulAnarchy
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#680

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » September 16th, 2016, 3:46 pm

Fergenaprido on Sep 16 2016, 09:01:18 AM wrote:and move UK & Ireland out of Europe and into this list?
Brexit strikes again.

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