World Cup, Season 5, Match 1D: Italy vs Sweden vs Serbia vs Canada vs Ecuador (Mar 19th)

[joachimt]

This is match 1D of the fifth season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

Country	Original Title	English Title	Year	Manager	IMDB	ICM
Italy	Il cavaliere misterioso	The Mysterious Rider	1948	Angel Glez	link	link
Sweden	Elvira Madigan		1967	pitchorneirda	link	link
Serbia	Pre istine	Before the Truth	1968	St. Gloede	link	link
Canada	Les ordres	Orderers	1974	Fergenaprido	link	link
Ecuador	Ratas, ratones, rateros	Rats, Mice, Pickpockets AKA Rodents	1999	sacmersault	link	link

Screenshots

Il cavaliere misterioso


Elvira Madigan


Pre istine


Les ordres


Ratas, ratones, rateros

Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 5 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 5 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Mar 19th
Countdown till deadline

The countries that end at 1st and 2nd place proceed to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Ranked by highest average ranking (= lowest number).
- In case of a tie between two movies, head-to-head determines the winner (how many people thought A>B and how many thought B>A).
- In case there's still a tie after the previous rule or there is a tie between more than two movies, most #1-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? Fewest #5-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? The match will have a 3 day extension (except when the tie is below #2).

Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works

We start with 40 films from 40 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 8 groups of 5. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 16 remaining countries will be divided into 8 matches of 2. The managers pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.

iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons

[72aicm]

1. Pre istine (1968)
2. Les ordres (1974)
3. Elvira Madigan (1967)
4. Ratas, ratones, rateros (1999)
5. Il cavaliere misterioso (1948)

[Mario Gaborović]

1. Pre istine
1. Les ordres
3. Ratas, ratones, rateros
4. Il cavaliere misterioso
5. Elvira Madigan

Kudos to Gloede for picking this up, I'd have done the same choice because Pre istine and its sequel Zazidani are local classics. Too bad they were the last things ever from Rakonjac, but that's what life is.

[Armoreska]

missing English title is Rats, mice, pickpockets
(this is used in russian databases)

[yllow]

Missing title is Rodents on Letterboxd

[joachimt]

Missing title is Rodents on Letterboxd

Which movie?

[yllow]

The Ecuadorian one

[Armoreska]

Missing title is Rodents on Letterboxd

I prefer the actual translation

[joachimt]

I added them both to keep the both of you happy.

[Mario Gaborović]

This is an excerpt from Zazidani, if anybody who liked Pre istine is interested to watch the sequel:

[St. Gloede]

Easily one of the best sequels ever made.

[hurluberlu]

1. Rats, Mice, Pickpockets AKA Rodents / Ratas, ratones, rateros 7
2. Elvira Madigan 7-
3. Before The Truth / Pre istine 6+
4. The Mysterious Rider / Il cavaliere misterioso 6
5. Orderers / Les ordres 5+

[pitchorneirda]

1. Elvira Madigan 8.5/10
2. Les ordres 8/10
3. Pre istine 5/10
4. Ratas, ratones, rateros 4/10
5. Il cavaliere misterioso 3/10

So sorry for "Les ordres", which I probably would have ranked 1st in any other group, even the one with "Dorp aan de rivier" (my pick for the Netherlands)...
But "Elvira Madigan" is so steadily gorgeous, when only the second half of "Les ordres" really resonated with me.

Also, I gave "Il cavaliere misterioso" a terrible rating but it was fun nonetheless, and I believe it was my very first swashbuckler, so thanks to Angel Glez for his quite refreshing choice.

[Armoreska]

Les Ordres 8-
Elvira Madigan 8-
Ratas, ratones, rateros 6+
Pre istine 6
Il cavaliere misterioso 6-

[Smoover]

1. Les Ordres 7.5
2. Pre istine 7.5
3. Elvira Madigan 7
4. Ratas, ratones, rateros 6.5
5. Il cavaliere misterioso 5.5

[Mario Gaborović]

Standings after six votes:

1. Les ordres 17-7
2. Pre istine 16-8
3. Elvira Madigan 14-10
4. Ratas, ratones, rateros 11-13
5. Il cavaliere misterioso 2-22

Looks like a similar scenario from the previous round.

[klaus78]

1. Les ordres
2. Il cavaliere misterioso
3. Pre istine
4. Ratas, ratones, rateros
5. Elvira Madigan

[St. Gloede]

1. Pre istine 9/10
2. Il cavaliere misterioso 7.5/10
3. Ratas, ratones, rateros 7/10
4. Elvira Madigan 7/10
5. Les ordres 6/10

Saw two films for the first time this week for this WC:

Il cavaliere misterioso was such a delight! A very nice change of pace from the more dour modern films I have been seeing lately. Excellent cinematography, and just a thoroughly fun thrill-ride with Casanova as an action hero spy. There's some fairly conventional plotting here keeping it just below greatness, but so much going on to make up for it. I'm surprised people are not falling for this one more here.

Ratas, ratones, rateros is very much a film of the moment - oh the 90s crime aesthetics. "Cool", gritty, funny. This film would definitely have had a shot breaking into the extended zeitgeist of the time.

[zhangalan]

1. Les Ordres
2. Pre istine
3. Il cavaliere misterioso
4. Elvira Madigan
5. Ratas, ratones, rateros

[filmbantha]

1. Elvira Madigan 7/10
I took an instant shine to Elvira Madigan, it felt like I was watching a Malick film in parts. Lots of beautiful scenery, a stirring score and a tragic romance. I wonder if the ending would have been more impactful had the outcome not been revealed at the very start of the film? Regardless, I enjoyed this a lot and Bo Widerberg is a director I will certainly return to in the future.

2. Pre istine 7/10
Although I found the non-linear approach a little confusing at first I was still impressed with this Serbian offering. The black and white cinematography is noteable, with many interesting camera angles and captivating performances from the leads. I decided to take Mario's recommendation on board and watched the sequel, Zazidani, which was even better and will definitely be high up on my list when the prison films poll comes around in a few months.

3. Ratas, ratones, rateros 6/10
There were some great characters in this crime drama; even the unlikeable ones were fun to watch, and I was invested in the film's outcome but the finale felt underwhelming. It was interesting to find out this was the debut by the director of Europa Report, with this outing showing a lot of promise and again I am hoping to seek out more of his early work in the future.

4. Il cavaliere misterioso 6/10
Wow, this felt like I was watching a historical James Bond in action! It was a lot of fun and a nice change of tone compared to the other films in the round, even if I'm not really the target audience for this type of historical adventure film.

5. Les Ordres 5/10
Docudramas tend to leave me cold, and sadly this was no exception. I was interested in the history surrounding the film's events, particularly as I had no prior knowledge of the October Crisis, but the way in which it was presented didn't grab me, nor did it provide much background on the build-up to the events.

Thanks to all the managers for their picks. It looks like this could be another unpredictable and exciting round, with lots of different voting orders so far.

[Mario Gaborović]

Lemme note just one important thing about Pre istine: Mladen's occupation is never explicitly revealed but rather left for one to guess. He's a UDBA official (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Sec ... ugoslavia)), normally a position gained as a reward to one's contribution to the local communist cause. On the other hand, Strahinja was a member of defeated royalist movement known as Chetniks, but he "served his punishment" and slowly got up the ladder once he paid for his sins.
Back in the day, it was enough for one to say something unpopular or express too liberal stands on a single occasion, if somebody overheard that, it goes boom! and he's down right at the very beginning of his career and social status. And they wouldn't even explain why they relegated you.

[joachimt]

Pre istine: 2.2 (28-12)
Les ordres: 2.5 (25-15)
Elvira Madigan: 3 (20-20)
Ratas, ratones, rateros: 3.4 (16-24)
Il cavaliere misterioso: 3.9 (11-29)

Double check, Mario? I had a sync-issue earlier.

[St. Gloede]

Btw, how does the scoring system work?

[joachimt]

Btw, how does the scoring system work?

Everybody ranks the movies 1 to 5. I simply calculate the average ranking. The one with the lowest number (highest ranking) wins. Between brackets (and the way Mario counts) is the count of wins. If a movie is ranked 1st by a user, it wins against four other movies, so it has 4 wins and 0 losses. The 2nd ranked movie for a user gets 3 wins and 1 loss. Just add up all the wins and losses. Result is the same as average rank.

In case of a tie, read the OP.

[St. Gloede]

Btw, how does the scoring system work?

Everybody ranks the movies 1 to 5. I simply calculate the average ranking. The one with the lowest number (highest ranking) wins. Between brackets (and the way Mario counts) is the count of wins. If a movie is ranked 1st by a user, it wins against four other movies, so it has 4 wins and 0 losses. The 2nd ranked movie for a user gets 3 wins and 1 loss. Just add up all the wins and losses. Result is the same as average rank.

In case of a tie, read the OP.

Ah, cheers, the averages make sense. What about these?

(28-12)
(25-15)
(20-20)
I(16-24)
(11-29)

[joachimt]

Pre istine won 28 times and lost 12 times.

You ranked Pre istine 1st, so you gave that movie 4 wins and 0 losses. After you zhangalan ranked it 2nd, so he gave the movie 3 wins and 1 loss. If I count that for each voter and add up all those wins and losses, you get 28-12.

[St. Gloede]

Pre istine won 28 times and lost 12 times.

You ranked Pre istine 1st, so you gave that movie 4 wins and 0 losses. After you zhangalan ranked it 2nd, so he gave the movie 3 wins and 1 loss. If I count that for each voter and add up all those wins and losses, you get 28-12.

Ah! So, even a 4th spot is +1 as a win, but -3 in losses.

[Mario Gaborović]

Double check, Mario? I had a sync-issue earlier.

I've got the same. It's correct.

[St. Gloede]

2. Pre istine 7/10
Although I found the non-linear approach a little confusing at first I was still impressed with this Serbian offering. The black and white cinematography is noteable, with many interesting camera angles and captivating performances from the leads. I decided to take Mario's recommendation on board and watched the sequel, Zazidani, which was even better and will definitely be high up on my list when the prison films poll comes around in a few months.

Really happy to hear that. They are equal in my mind, but can easily see why this would appeal more to many.

[Mario Gaborović]

2. Pre istine 7/10
Although I found the non-linear approach a little confusing at first I was still impressed with this Serbian offering. The black and white cinematography is noteable, with many interesting camera angles and captivating performances from the leads. I decided to take Mario's recommendation on board and watched the sequel, Zazidani, which was even better and will definitely be high up on my list when the prison films poll comes around in a few months.

Really happy to hear that. They are equal in my mind, but can easily see why this would appeal more to many.

Even I think Zazidani is a stronger film with more universal subjects (and even better camera angles!) - but it's kinda dubious to submit the sequel first, and skip the previous film if the watchers are unfamiliar with the duology itself.

[russa03]

1. Les ordres
2. Elvira Madigan
3. Pre istine
4. Ratas, ratones, rateros
5. Il cavaliere misterioso

[joachimt]

Last seven rankings for Les Ordres
1
1
1
5
1
5
1

[Mario Gaborović]

2. Pre istine 7/10
Although I found the non-linear approach a little confusing at first I was still impressed with this Serbian offering. The black and white cinematography is noteable, with many interesting camera angles and captivating performances from the leads. I decided to take Mario's recommendation on board and watched the sequel, Zazidani, which was even better and will definitely be high up on my list when the prison films poll comes around in a few months.

Really happy to hear that. They are equal in my mind, but can easily see why this would appeal more to many.

Even I think Zazidani is a stronger film with more universal subjects (and even better camera angles!) - but it's kinda dubious to submit the sequel first, and skip the previous film if the watchers are unfamiliar with the duology itself.

Right now there is a sequel poll going on. Would you be kind enough to compile one, and include the film in question so it could gain more exposure?

[St. Gloede]

Nominations closed today it seems.

[joachimt]

A rather average match in my opinion. Nothing terrible, nothing great.

1. Les ordres 7
2. Ratas, ratones, rateros 7-
3. Elvira Madigan 6+
4. Pre istine 6
5. Il cavaliere misterioso 6-

[beavis]

1. Les ordres (1974) - 8
2. Pre istine (1968) - 7.5
3. Elvira Madigan (1967) - 7.5
4. Il cavaliere misterioso (1948) - 7.5
5. Ratas, ratones, rateros (1999) -7.5

a very diverse bunch of interesting titles!! luckily there was one for me that clearly stuck out, my numbers 2 and 3 are very close and strong 7.5's... the other 2 could also be 7s, but they had something special going for them to cover up some of the lacks in other departments.

[jvv]

1. Les ordres (1974)
2. Ratas, ratones, rateros (1999)
3. Il cavaliere misterioso (1948)
4. Pre istine (1968)
5. Elvira Madigan (1967)

[joachimt]

With the last few votes, the ranking seems to become really clear.

[Mario Gaborović]

Standings, 4.5 days to go:

1. Les ordres 41-15
2. Pre istine 35-21
3. Elvira Madigan 27-29
4. Ratas, ratones, rateros 23-33
5. Il cavaliere misterioso 14-42

[sol]

Last seven rankings for Les Ordres
1
1
1
5
1
5
1

Looks like I'm going to be the first not to place Canada first or last this round.