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World Cup, Season 5, Match 1B: Japan vs Azerbaijan vs Switzerland vs Cyprus vs Netherlands (Feb 5th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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World Cup, Season 5, Match 1B: Japan vs Azerbaijan vs Switzerland vs Cyprus vs Netherlands (Feb 5th)

#1

Post by joachimt »

This is match 1B of the fifth season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
JapanSakura no mori no mankai no shitaUnder the Blossoming Cherry Trees1975filmbanthalinklink
AzerbaijanBir Janub ShaharindaIn a Southern Town1969RogerTheMovieManiac88linklink
SwitzerlandGrauzoneZones1979beavislinklink
CyprusO teleftaios gyrismosThe Last Homecoming2008Mario Gaborovićlinklink
NetherlandsDorp aan de rivierVillage by the River1958pitchorneirdalinklink

Screenshots
Sakura no mori no mankai no shita
Image

Bir Janub Shaharinda
Image

Grauzone
Image

O teleftaios gyrismos
Image

Dorp aan de rivier
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 5 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 5 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Feb 5th
Countdown till deadline

The countries that end at 1st and 2nd place proceed to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Ranked by highest average ranking (= lowest number).
- In case of a tie between two movies, head-to-head determines the winner (how many people thought A>B and how many thought B>A).
- In case there's still a tie after the previous rule or there is a tie between more than two movies, most #1-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? Fewest #5-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? The match will have a 3 day extension (except when the tie is below #2).
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works
We start with 40 films from 40 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 8 groups of 5. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 16 remaining countries will be divided into 8 matches of 2. The managers pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.
iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons
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#2

Post by Mario Gaborović »

1. Image Sakura no mori no mankai no shita
2. Image O teleftaios gyrismos
3. Image Dorp aan de rivier
4. Image Bir cənub şəhərində
5. Image Grauzone
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#3

Post by sol »

Well, that was interesting. After watching four films in this match, I thought I would have a lot of trouble selecting a favourite from the bunch. Then I watched the Swiss one, which is perhaps my favourite viewing of the last two rounds combined. It's such a visually glorious movie in stark black and white, but more than that: it is a curious look at a pandemic in the 70s and media outlets denying the pandemic's existence and all the stir that causes. Quite a timely film and a very nice selection, beavis.

As usual, I'm including Letterboxd reviews should anyone be interested in my further thoughts on any of the movies. No real bad/mediocre films in here; even the one that I rated lowest was more of a mere disappointment to me more than anything else given how outlandish it sounded on paper (but I appreciate the rec, Tom). It was also nice to get another Azerbaijani and Cypriot viewing under my belt, as well as another check on the Foreign Language Nominees list with the Dutch candidate. Many thanks to all of the managers for this round.

1. Image .Grauzone https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/zones/
2. Image Bir cənub şəhərində https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/in-a-southern-town/
3. Image O teleftaios gyrismos https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/the-last-homecoming/
4. Image Dorp aan de rivier https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/village-by-the-river/
5. Image Sakura no mori no mankai no shita https://letterboxd.com/solh/film/under- ... rry-trees/
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#4

Post by beavis »

sol wrote: January 10th, 2023, 12:42 pm ... Swiss one, which is perhaps my favourite viewing of the last two rounds combined. It's such a visually glorious movie in stark black and white, but more than that: it is a curious look at a pandemic in the 70s and media outlets denying the pandemic's existence and all the stir that causes. Quite a timely film and a very nice selection, beavis.
I thought so as well!
glad you liked it :cheers:
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#5

Post by Mario Gaborović »

sol wrote: January 10th, 2023, 12:42 pm It was also nice to get another Azerbaijani and Cypriot viewing under my belt, as well as another check on the Foreign Language Nominees list with the Dutch candidate. Many thanks to all of the managers for this round.
My pick would have lean more towards emotional side; I can relate because moving out or at least distancing forever from the place where you've been born seems like a hard hit that never cures. A feel sort of like your lungs, heart, intestines have been eaten up and no other places of living could replace that - just a though of that creates emptiness around stomach area. And then comes invader and erases your world in a matter of days like it never existed; must have been a horror for many Cypriots.
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#6

Post by sol »

beavis wrote: January 10th, 2023, 1:18 pm
sol wrote: January 10th, 2023, 12:42 pm ... Swiss one, which is perhaps my favourite viewing of the last two rounds combined. It's such a visually glorious movie in stark black and white, but more than that: it is a curious look at a pandemic in the 70s and media outlets denying the pandemic's existence and all the stir that causes. Quite a timely film and a very nice selection, beavis.
I thought so as well!
B) I'm interested to see what others make of it (I think I was only the tenth check on iCM). I know that there was a big resurgence in viewings of pandemic films in 2020; this one though seems to have slipped under the radar.
Mario Gaborović wrote: January 10th, 2023, 2:07 pm
sol wrote: January 10th, 2023, 12:42 pm It was also nice to get another Azerbaijani and Cypriot viewing under my belt, as well as another check on the Foreign Language Nominees list with the Dutch candidate. Many thanks to all of the managers for this round.
My pick would have lean more towards emotional side; I can relate because moving out or at least distancing forever from the place where you've been born seems like a hard hit that never cures. A feel sort of like your lungs, heart, intestines have been eaten up and no other places of living could replace that - just a though of that creates emptiness around stomach area. And then comes invader and erases your world in a matter of days like it never existed; must have been a horror for many Cypriots.
Yours was a good pick, Mario. :thumbsup: Apparently only the third Cypriot film that I have seen too. I was actually a bit torn over whether to rank your pick or the Azerbaijani film second, but ultimately I went with the Azerbaijani one because the innovative camerawork really took me aback (wasn't expecting that at all). I could have definitely placed the Cypriot film second on a different day of the week. And same thing that I said to beavis above, with so few checks, I'm curious about what others will make of it.
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#7

Post by beavis »

Does anyone have subs for the Cyprus movie that aren't broken? Mine seem to leave half of it untranslated, often mid sentence! Apparently this fault is in the retail subs... but 10 minutes in i must say it makes it unwatchable...!! :(
hope i can complete this round, so, fingers crossed for subs
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#8

Post by Mario Gaborović »

beavis wrote: January 10th, 2023, 8:31 pm Does anyone have subs for the Cyprus movie that aren't broken? Mine seem to leave half of it untranslated, often mid sentence! Apparently this fault is in the retail subs... but 10 minutes in i must say it makes it unwatchable...!! :(
hope i can complete this round, so, fingers crossed for subs
No, that was apparently lost through DVD transfer. Let your imagination do the second lines, or rely on visuals, what else can I say. :(

I made an ordinary subs out of these, and I dunno if there's more lines extracted, or is it just as same.
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#9

Post by beavis »

I feared as much, besides already going slightly mental after 10 minutes, i also think that if i don't respect what is said in the movie, it must have little to say... i can't be forced to sit through that just for some pictures, how would i even rate that... this is a bummer... after i already risked the youtube only movie, which has bad subs aswell btw...
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#10

Post by Mario Gaborović »

beavis wrote: January 10th, 2023, 8:54 pm I feared as much, besides already going slightly mental after 10 minutes, i also think that if i don't respect what is said in the movie, it must have little to say... i can't be forced to sit through that just for some pictures, how would i even rate that... this is a bummer... after i already risked the youtube only movie, which has bad subs aswell btw...
A Note on the Vanguard Edition
For a moment I thought of stopping the player… Subtitles were reading like this: "I thought you were coming the day you…" or "I saw you when you were…" The lines of dialogue were incomplete! But then after a couple of minutes trying to fill the gaps, voilà, the subtitles appeared in full for… what a beautiful movie!!! Maybe a bit sentimental here and there, but at the same time gripping, strong, touching, especially in those very spiny moments when individual politics clash with love, family and friends. A very good cast of unfamiliar faces is a big plus, because you don't waste time seeing how much your favorite star has aged. I recommend it highly.
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#11

Post by beavis »

Well i stopped it after a full 15 minutes and subs were completely chaotic, how many more few minutes would it take? And did this reviewer just gave up or are subs indeed (approaching) correctness further in?
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#12

Post by joachimt »

I wonder if you two have the same version of the subs. Completely chaotic doesn't sound promising to me.
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#13

Post by Mario Gaborović »

beavis wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:07 pm Well i stopped it after a full 15 minutes and subs were completely chaotic, how many more few minutes would it take? And did this reviewer just gave up or are subs indeed (approaching) correctness further in?
Did you try these? https://rs.titlovi.com/prevodi/o-teleft ... ng-359569/

If these are not any better, I might add some made up lines based on logic/assumptions. :lol:
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#14

Post by beavis »

I checked out those linked subs and they are indeed the same as the ones that came with my movie

for those who want a sample:
Spoiler
00:00:02,502 --> 00:00:04,596
AVRA PRODUCTIONS

2
00:00:05,538 --> 00:00:06,338
with the support of

3
00:00:12,379 --> 00:00:15,610
Co-producers

4
00:00:17,217 --> 00:00:22,178
With the collaboration of

5
00:00:23,256 --> 00:00:26,658
a movie by
Korinna Avraamidou

6
00:00:27,527 --> 00:00:28,477
<b>THE LAST HOMECOMING</b>

7
00:00:55,688 --> 00:00:57,019
It's them, they are coming!

8
00:00:58,091 --> 00:00:59,320
Let's go tell my mum.

9
00:01:40,333 --> 00:01:41,459
Come on, Manolis.

10
00:02:14,134 --> 00:02:17,434
Oh! Come, miss Meropil Come

11
00:02:17,637 --> 00:02:19,662
Don't worry about me, my dear.

12
00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:23,201
You know that I won't sit down until

13
00:02:23,201 --> 00:02:25,310
and your glasses full of wine!

14
00:02:25,979 --> 00:02:28,175
Let's pour wine for everyone then.

15
00:02:35,755 --> 00:02:37,587
Welcome home, my children!

16
00:02:38,024 --> 00:02:39,253
Welcome!

17
00:02:47,534 --> 00:02:49,525
I need your attention for a moment

18
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,169
There comes a time in our lives

19
00:02:57,377 --> 00:02:58,640
at the years

20
00:03:01,214 --> 00:03:04,149
...and then we look

21
00:03:05,351 --> 00:03:06,978
...and the happy times

22
00:03:10,723 --> 00:03:14,682
That's all. Let us drink to the health

23
00:03:18,398 --> 00:03:20,093
Bravol

24
00:03:20,093 --> 00:03:23,261
And get married soon

25
00:03:23,261 --> 00:03:25,270
.with my first great-grandchild!

26
00:03:25,638 --> 00:03:27,436
Don't be in such a hurry, grandfather!

27
00:03:28,341 --> 00:03:30,036
I'm getting old! I am!

28
00:03:30,443 --> 00:03:32,411
No you are not!

29
00:03:33,346 --> 00:03:36,509
It runs in our family, my girl.

30
00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:39,710
You are entering a great family.

31
00:03:40,753 --> 00:03:42,687
But I can see,

32
00:03:52,632 --> 00:03:53,982
It was the end of May 1974.

33
00:04:00,206 --> 00:04:02,004
.After along time

34
00:04:03,243 --> 00:04:07,305
...where the warm summer evenings,

35
00:04:07,714 --> 00:04:14,245
...came alive as a noisy and colourful

36
00:04:15,188 --> 00:04:18,385
...with its secret sounds

37
00:04:20,126 --> 00:04:22,993
But for me, this summer

38
00:04:23,396 --> 00:04:25,387
I cannot say exactly why.

39
00:04:25,598 --> 00:04:28,067
(singing) Oh my little tender basil flower come out on
your balcony;

40
00:04:28,268 --> 00:04:29,997
.pretend that you're watering

41
00:04:29,997 --> 00:04:32,695
...so that I can look

42
00:04:34,007 --> 00:04:37,068
...so that I can look

43
00:04:38,678 --> 00:04:43,240
(Turkish) When I see you

44
00:04:43,616 --> 00:04:47,018
Cheers! Cheers!

45
00:05:47,714 --> 00:05:49,512
It is harvest time already.

46
00:05:51,584 --> 00:05:54,918
August will be here soon.

47
00:06:32,125 --> 00:06:35,322
Where are you off to

48
00:06:35,322 --> 00:06:36,519
It's none of your business.

49
00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:37,595
Ready, father?

50
00:06:37,595 --> 00:06:38,459
Yes I am.

51
00:06:38,698 --> 00:06:40,928
Let me get this straight.

52
00:06:41,567 --> 00:06:45,697
But I thought you had a headache.

53
00:06:49,475 --> 00:06:51,987
Let's get going, my dear,

54
00:06:51,987 --> 00:06:53,488
...and we're stuck with the rotten.

55
00:06:53,488 --> 00:06:56,972
... Aristides will bring

56
00:06:57,183 --> 00:06:59,982
Oh God! How much longer

57
00:07:00,353 --> 00:07:02,014
Wait for me!

58
00:07:05,158 --> 00:07:07,388
Good Morning, Aziz!

59
00:07:08,561 --> 00:07:12,395
Good morning my little basil flower!

60
00:07:13,499 --> 00:07:15,024
Come with us!

61
00:07:15,024 --> 00:07:18,171
To the unknown I am taking you,

62
00:07:24,277 --> 00:07:28,373
Set the round shield of Hector

63
00:07:30,383 --> 00:07:32,249
One thing I know for sure...

64
00:07:32,249 --> 00:07:34,285
the cucumbers are unreasonably

65
00:07:34,654 --> 00:07:37,919
Oh, hush woman! You are driving us

66
00:07:38,124 --> 00:07:40,354
What is this we are listening to?

67
00:07:41,260 --> 00:07:42,410
You hush, you old fool.
dialogue not fully translated I can live with to a certain extent, but when sentences are broken in half or replaced by "..." it just gets maddening to me (and I think both these things are happening here, although it was hard to tell as I couldn't follow any dialogue. Of course I can infer from circumstance when people meet each other that they greet and when they are at a dining table they could be talking about food, but any real meaning seems impossible to me. I'm not sure how you and Sol have managed... :)
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#15

Post by Mario Gaborović »

beavis wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:25 pm I checked out those linked subs and they are indeed the same as the ones that came with my movie

for those who want a sample:
Spoiler
00:00:02,502 --> 00:00:04,596
AVRA PRODUCTIONS

2
00:00:05,538 --> 00:00:06,338
with the support of

3
00:00:12,379 --> 00:00:15,610
Co-producers

4
00:00:17,217 --> 00:00:22,178
With the collaboration of

5
00:00:23,256 --> 00:00:26,658
a movie by
Korinna Avraamidou

6
00:00:27,527 --> 00:00:28,477
<b>THE LAST HOMECOMING</b>

7
00:00:55,688 --> 00:00:57,019
It's them, they are coming!

8
00:00:58,091 --> 00:00:59,320
Let's go tell my mum.

9
00:01:40,333 --> 00:01:41,459
Come on, Manolis.

10
00:02:14,134 --> 00:02:17,434
Oh! Come, miss Meropil Come

11
00:02:17,637 --> 00:02:19,662
Don't worry about me, my dear.

12
00:02:20,140 --> 00:02:23,201
You know that I won't sit down until

13
00:02:23,201 --> 00:02:25,310
and your glasses full of wine!

14
00:02:25,979 --> 00:02:28,175
Let's pour wine for everyone then.

15
00:02:35,755 --> 00:02:37,587
Welcome home, my children!

16
00:02:38,024 --> 00:02:39,253
Welcome!

17
00:02:47,534 --> 00:02:49,525
I need your attention for a moment

18
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,169
There comes a time in our lives

19
00:02:57,377 --> 00:02:58,640
at the years

20
00:03:01,214 --> 00:03:04,149
...and then we look

21
00:03:05,351 --> 00:03:06,978
...and the happy times

22
00:03:10,723 --> 00:03:14,682
That's all. Let us drink to the health

23
00:03:18,398 --> 00:03:20,093
Bravol

24
00:03:20,093 --> 00:03:23,261
And get married soon

25
00:03:23,261 --> 00:03:25,270
.with my first great-grandchild!

26
00:03:25,638 --> 00:03:27,436
Don't be in such a hurry, grandfather!

27
00:03:28,341 --> 00:03:30,036
I'm getting old! I am!

28
00:03:30,443 --> 00:03:32,411
No you are not!

29
00:03:33,346 --> 00:03:36,509
It runs in our family, my girl.

30
00:03:37,150 --> 00:03:39,710
You are entering a great family.

31
00:03:40,753 --> 00:03:42,687
But I can see,

32
00:03:52,632 --> 00:03:53,982
It was the end of May 1974.

33
00:04:00,206 --> 00:04:02,004
.After along time

34
00:04:03,243 --> 00:04:07,305
...where the warm summer evenings,

35
00:04:07,714 --> 00:04:14,245
...came alive as a noisy and colourful

36
00:04:15,188 --> 00:04:18,385
...with its secret sounds

37
00:04:20,126 --> 00:04:22,993
But for me, this summer

38
00:04:23,396 --> 00:04:25,387
I cannot say exactly why.

39
00:04:25,598 --> 00:04:28,067
(singing) Oh my little tender basil flower come out on
your balcony;

40
00:04:28,268 --> 00:04:29,997
.pretend that you're watering

41
00:04:29,997 --> 00:04:32,695
...so that I can look

42
00:04:34,007 --> 00:04:37,068
...so that I can look

43
00:04:38,678 --> 00:04:43,240
(Turkish) When I see you

44
00:04:43,616 --> 00:04:47,018
Cheers! Cheers!

45
00:05:47,714 --> 00:05:49,512
It is harvest time already.

46
00:05:51,584 --> 00:05:54,918
August will be here soon.

47
00:06:32,125 --> 00:06:35,322
Where are you off to

48
00:06:35,322 --> 00:06:36,519
It's none of your business.

49
00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:37,595
Ready, father?

50
00:06:37,595 --> 00:06:38,459
Yes I am.

51
00:06:38,698 --> 00:06:40,928
Let me get this straight.

52
00:06:41,567 --> 00:06:45,697
But I thought you had a headache.

53
00:06:49,475 --> 00:06:51,987
Let's get going, my dear,

54
00:06:51,987 --> 00:06:53,488
...and we're stuck with the rotten.

55
00:06:53,488 --> 00:06:56,972
... Aristides will bring

56
00:06:57,183 --> 00:06:59,982
Oh God! How much longer

57
00:07:00,353 --> 00:07:02,014
Wait for me!

58
00:07:05,158 --> 00:07:07,388
Good Morning, Aziz!

59
00:07:08,561 --> 00:07:12,395
Good morning my little basil flower!

60
00:07:13,499 --> 00:07:15,024
Come with us!

61
00:07:15,024 --> 00:07:18,171
To the unknown I am taking you,

62
00:07:24,277 --> 00:07:28,373
Set the round shield of Hector

63
00:07:30,383 --> 00:07:32,249
One thing I know for sure...

64
00:07:32,249 --> 00:07:34,285
the cucumbers are unreasonably

65
00:07:34,654 --> 00:07:37,919
Oh, hush woman! You are driving us

66
00:07:38,124 --> 00:07:40,354
What is this we are listening to?

67
00:07:41,260 --> 00:07:42,410
You hush, you old fool.
dialogue not fully translated I can live with to a certain extend, but when sentences are broken in half or replaced by ... it just gets maddening to me (and I think both these things are happening here, although it was hard to tell as I couldn't follow any dialogue. Of course I can infer from circumstance when people meet each other that they greet and when they are at a dining table they could be talking about food, but any real meaning seems impossible to me. I'm not sure how you and Sol have managed... :)
Believe it or not, I managed to decipher some words and putting them through google translate (+ watching interactions) they really made sense!

Would you like to wait til tomorrow? I think I can make this film more watchable.
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#16

Post by beavis »

seems like a lot of work to put a movie through google translate (is that possible with audio?) and then correcting that by hand afterwards... so I assume you are just meaning translating some words and adding some inferred meanings, and while I appreciate the effort it still sound worrying and less than ideal to say the least... I don't know what to say as you obviously seem to like the movie very much, but from that short bit that I have checked out, it really makes no sense to me to select a movie in such a state... but I hope that is just me and most other people will still enjoy it! :)
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#17

Post by Mario Gaborović »

beavis wrote: January 10th, 2023, 9:41 pm seems like a lot of work to put a movie through google translate (is that possible with audio?) and then correcting that by hand afterwards... so I assume you are just meaning translating some words and adding some inferred meanings, and while I appreciate the effort it still sound worrying and less than ideal to say the least... I don't know what to say as you obviously seem to like the movie very much, but from that short bit that I have checked out, it really makes no sense to me to select a movie in such a state... but I hope that is just me and most other people will still enjoy it! :)
I'm gonna add what I can, there's no way back now. Some Greek is obvious, it's not like I'm doing Swahili. I'll do it anyway and post improved subs until 12pm, hope so.
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#18

Post by beavis »

it's all greek to me :)
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#19

Post by Armoreska »

I made a pot you know where.
he or A. or Armo or any

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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#20

Post by St. Gloede »

1. Image Sakura no mori no mankai no shita 8.5
2. Image Dorp aan de rivier 8
3. Image Bir cənub şəhərində 7
4. Image Grauzone 6.5
5. Image O teleftaios gyrismos 6
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#21

Post by klaus78 »

1. Image Grauzone
2. Image Sakura no mori no mankai no shita
3. Image Dorp aan de rivier
4. Image O teleftaios gyrismos
5. Image Bir Janub Shaharinda
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#22

Post by sol »

klaus78 wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:12 am 1. Image Grauzone
I think I just found you on Letterboxd, klaus :) Or you found me. ;) Great see we have the same #1 pick for this match!
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#23

Post by beavis »

Two rankings since the question about the subs and not a single comment on the matter!?!
Wow, thanks a lot... :(
Last edited by beavis on January 15th, 2023, 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#24

Post by hurluberlu »

beavis wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:31 am Two rankings since the question about the subs and not a single comment on the matter!?!
Wow, thanks a lot... 😒
I was thinking the same...

St. Gloede, klaus78 can you share your experience ? did you watch the Cyprus film for this round ? if yes what subtitles did you use and any issue with them ?

I am holding to watch any film for this round until I am hearing the subs are fine, beavis feedback was quite dreadful.
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#25

Post by Mario Gaborović »

hurluberlu wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:53 am
beavis wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:31 am Two rankings since the question about the subs and not a single comment on the matter!?!
Wow, thanks a lot... 😒
I was thinking the same...

St. Gloede, klaus78 can you share your experience ? did you watch the Cyprus film for this round ? if yes what subtitles did you use and any issue with them ?

I am holding to watch any film for this round until I am hearing the subs are fine, beavis feedback was quite dreadful.
Yeah is it watchable, moderately watchable or not watchable at all... TELL US!

I think I missed a line when guys are sitting in a caffe, they ask Manolis if the female lead came from Athens, and Manols says "Why that bothers you"? Because the girl is a member of Enosis (just like he is), a movement that seeks unification with Greece.

Other than that, I don't see any major issues with the subs, NOW.
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#26

Post by sol »

It's been a few days since I have seen it now, but I had no troubling following the Cypriot film with Mario's original subs. :think: There are were a few narrated lines cut short in the opening stretch, but nothing that impacted on my understanding of the overall movie. And if there was anything missing from later on in the film, I don't recall it. The whole thing was very watchable for me at least.
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#27

Post by beavis »

sol wrote: January 15th, 2023, 11:42 am It's been a few days since I have seen it now, but I had no troubling following the Cypriot film with Mario's original subs. :think: There are were a few narrated lines cut short in the opening stretch, but nothing that impacted on my understanding of the overall movie. And if there was anything missing from later on in the film, I don't recall it. The whole thing was very watchable for me at least.
Youve said that to me before, but I just don't know how to interpret that, as not some but almost every line seemed cut to me and, I hope this does not offend you, we often seem to 'understand' movies very differently... I don't want to just look at pictures and follow the action, but also what the movie is actually about, certainly as this movie seems to be dealing with a serious issue... in order to read between the lines, you do need the lines...

Now Mario said he would use his imagination, and he fixed up the subs at incredible speed... maybe the subs are great, and maybe indeed the original subs did get a lot better later on... I just need one (more) person to confirm this is the case :)
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#28

Post by klaus78 »

I stopped the Cyprus film a couple minutes in to check about the subs, but found out it's fine after the first 20 minutes, so I just stuck it out.
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#29

Post by klaus78 »

sol wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:19 am
klaus78 wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:12 am 1. Image Grauzone
I think I just found you on Letterboxd, klaus :) Or you found me. ;) Great see we have the same #1 pick for this match!
:cheers:
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#30

Post by beavis »

klaus78 wrote: January 15th, 2023, 12:11 pm I stopped the Cyprus film a couple minutes in to check about the subs, but found out it's fine after the first 20 minutes, so I just stuck it out.
I didn't make it 20 minutes in, that's too long to keep holding hope ;)
But, with Mario's added input there, and this conformation from you about the original subs, I think I can do the sigh of relief now, and finally finish up this group!

THANKS!!!
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#31

Post by Mario Gaborović »

It wasn't purely imagination, I heard words like "krias" and "akrivos", typed into google translate and got "lamb" and "expensive", which perfectly fit into the lines + what I saw going on on screen. Of course sometimes words I heard didn't make any sense, so that was when sheer imagination took its part.
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#32

Post by pitchorneirda »

1. Image Dorp aan de rivier
2. Image Sakura no mori no mankai no shita
3. Image Grauzone
4. Image Bir Janub Shaharinda
5. Image O teleftaios gyrismos
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#33

Post by St. Gloede »

hurluberlu wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:53 am
beavis wrote: January 15th, 2023, 10:31 am Two rankings since the question about the subs and not a single comment on the matter!?!
Wow, thanks a lot... 😒
I was thinking the same...

St. Gloede, klaus78 can you share your experience ? did you watch the Cyprus film for this round ? if yes what subtitles did you use and any issue with them ?

I am holding to watch any film for this round until I am hearing the subs are fine, beavis feedback was quite dreadful.
Missed this. I used the improved subtitles Mario provided and they were pretty ok. They shouldn't hurt the viewing IMO.
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#34

Post by joachimt »

I watched the first half of O teleftaios gyrismos. Could someone explain to me, in spoiler tags,
Spoiler
what was the deal with the letter and what went wrong? I get that the brothers are involved in some kind of organization (terrorism?) and that someone else in the organization doesn't trust Alexandra, but I didn't get what went wrong.
Or maybe it's not important?

I partly agree with beavis on the subs. There were a few moments that somebody asked a question and that the answer was completely untranslated. Apart from that I also think the timings of the subs are often too short. I had to skip back quite a few times. But still, I'll finish the movie. It's watchable in the sense that I mostly get what the movie is about and I can finish it.

In general I agree with what's said above. A manager should be sure a movie is available in watchable condition. That's a very subjective demand, but incomplete subs should be a sign that the movie really is too obscure for this exercise. Mario, I really appreciate the effort you put into this, but relying on you filling the gaps by listening closely and putting words into Google-Translate, words you THINK you hear, is a clear sign this doesn't meet the quality standards of at least a significant part of this community.

Same goes for picture quality. Hard to define a boundary there, but sure we could all figure out some movies just didn't survive well enough. I wouldn't put Nise daigakusei into this competition for example, even though I watched it and loved it.

Bad picture quality and subs also lower the joy people have in watching a movie. Managers all hope that the participants enjoy the movie, right? Picking something with lower quality is something that, how do you say in English...... there's a Dutch saying for that: "Je staat al 1-0 achter voordat je begonnen bent."
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#35

Post by hurluberlu »

joachimt wrote: January 15th, 2023, 4:41 pm I watched the first half of O teleftaios gyrismos. Could someone explain to me, in spoiler tags,
Spoiler
what was the deal with the letter and what went wrong? I get that the brothers are involved in some kind of organization (terrorism?) and that someone else in the organization doesn't trust Alexandra, but I didn't get what went wrong.
Or maybe it's not important?

I partly agree with beavis on the subs. There were a few moments that somebody asked a question and that the answer was completely untranslated. Apart from that I also think the timings of the subs are often too short. I had to skip back quite a few times. But still, I'll finish the movie. It's watchable in the sense that I mostly get what the movie is about and I can finish it.
Just watched it.
About the letter,
Spoiler
one of the activist gets arrested and they suspect Alexandra gave away the information that was on the letter and helped with the arrestation.

Pretty much agree with your take on the subtitles.
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#36

Post by St. Gloede »

Also:
Spoiler
unless I misunderstood Alexandra is actually from Greece, as opposed to being part of the Greek ethnic group in Cyprus. The brother is a Communist and opposes the right-wing Military dictatorship in Greece, but they are uncertain of who they can trust. Her having seen a secret letter and possibly having put two and two together, could be a threat to them.
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#37

Post by joachimt »

St. Gloede wrote: January 15th, 2023, 8:36 pm Also:
Spoiler
unless I misunderstood Alexandra is actually from Greece, as opposed to being part of the Greek ethnic group in Cyprus. The brother is a Communist and opposes the right-wing Military dictatorship in Greece, but they are uncertain of who they can trust. Her having seen a secret letter and possibly having put two and two together, could be a threat to them.
You didn't misunderstand.
Spoiler
She was indeed from Greece, so I understood the suspicion. I just expected this to be a bigger issue in the rest of the movie, but it really wasn't. It felt to me like the whole political story remained a side story till the end, just like the scenes about the play with the old guy going after the lady with the big boobs. The whole movie was mostly a simple love triangle between the two brothers and Alexandra with hardly anything happening. And then we had the side story of the old lover of their mother. Apart from some of the people being active in the organization there was hardly any connection between the several subplots. At the end the movie ended with some textscreens of Cyprus' history as if the movie mainly was about the struggle of the Cypriot people, which it hardly was in my eyes.
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#38

Post by beavis »

joachimt wrote: January 15th, 2023, 8:55 pm
Spoiler
She was indeed from Greece, so I understood the suspicion. I just expected this to be a bigger issue in the rest of the movie, but it really wasn't. It felt to me like the whole political story remained a side story till the end, just like the scenes about the play with the old guy going after the lady with the big boobs. The whole movie was mostly a simple love triangle between the two brothers and Alexandra with hardly anything happening. And then we had the side story of the old lover of their mother. Apart from some of the people being active in the organization there was hardly any connection between the several subplots. At the end the movie ended with some textscreens of Cyprus' history as if the movie mainly was about the struggle of the Cypriot people, which it hardly was in my eyes.
Spoiler
Al the movie is side story. There is the Cypriot nationalist who has the history with the mother. There is the Turkish family friend with his daughter. All this to show how friends and families got ripped apart in the divide. I do not mind such an approach but the love triangle could indeed have been handled much better and I would also have liked it when the play in the movie would have some bearing on all of it aswell (I mean when one of the leads is called Orestes, you do expect something about the voice of the people vs... maybe both the Greek and Turkish interference?).
Last edited by beavis on January 15th, 2023, 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#39

Post by beavis »

1. Dorp aan de rivier - 8.5
2. Grauzone - 8
3. Sakura no mori no mankai no shita - 7.5
4. Bir Janub Shaharinda - 7
5. O teleftaios gyrismos - 7

At the start of this round I had only seen my own pick and Dorp aan de Rivier and already I had to bet against my own movie. In my mind these movies are real close and if I'd rewatch them, maybe I could put Grauzone on top, but I won't and will have to rely on my ratings. Then there was a Shinoda movie!!! one of my favorite directors and a movie I've been looking forward to for ages too, clearly a pool of death, right?

Luckily, or sadly, the narative of Sakura let a lot to be desired. Technically the movie is as superb as any of Shinoda's efforts and I like the theatrical and magic-realist mode he works in here, but I hated the dumb main character... kinda ruined the movie almost.

The final two I judge mildly with a 7. Both stories have some serious edges to them, but many of the situations and characters in them where written very broadly, in the vein of mainstream entertainment. Maybe I'm too harsh on Bir Janub as I did think back to the ending, where we see reluctant men having to do things demanded by their community they both clearly don't want to do, filmed in an interesting way and with a jazzy score too, a lot actually. When the built up had been better (or maybe again some got lost in the translation, with some instances of imperfect English...) I might have been in a more positive mindset for it. But I can't call these bad movies,
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#40

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Standings after six votes:

1. Image Sakura no mori no mankai no shita 16-8
1. Image Dorp aan de rivier 16-8 (tied)
3. Image Grauzone 14-10
4. Image Bir cənub şəhərində 8-16
5. Image O teleftaios gyrismos 6-18
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