Welcome to the ICM Forum.
Check out our Magazine

If you notice any issues please post in the Q&A thread. Email issue should be fixed. If you encounter this issue, contact PeacefulAnarchy
Podcast: Talking Images (Episode 50 released May 1st: Being There feat. Autism Through Cinema)
iCinema Magazine: WE ARE LIVE! (We just need more content)
ICMForum Film Festival 2022: Mon Nov 14 - Dec 12
Polls: Contemporary Black&White (Results), Favorite Movies (Results), Directors (Closed), 1953 (May 22nd), Germany (May 30th), 1990s (May 31st)
Challenges: Western, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Religion, Cults, Sorcery
About: Welcome All New Members, Terms of Use, Q&A

Managers Cup, Match SFA: sol vs sacmersault (Jan 30th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
Post Reply
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 35101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Managers Cup, Match SFA: sol vs sacmersault (Jan 30th)

#1

Post by joachimt »

This is match SFA of iCM Forum's Managers Cup.

Original TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
The Visit1964sollinklink
Il tettoThe Roof1956sacmersaultlinklink

Screenshots
The Visit
Image

Il tetto
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, post which of the two movies is your favorite.

Voting deadline = Jan 30th
Countdown till deadline

The manager that ends at 1st place proceeds to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Movie with most votes wins.
- In case of a tie the match will have a 3 day extension.
- In case there's still a tie then, the next voter decides by sudden death.
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works
We start with 18 movies selected by 18 managers. In the first round the movies are divided into 6 groups of 3. From each group the countries that end up at #1 proceed to the next round. The two best #2's proceed as well. In the 2nd round the 8 remaining managers will be divided into 8 matches of 2 and they pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.
Rules for picking movies:
- Less than 1000 checks on iCM in round 1. Quarter finals: 400 checks. Semi finals: 200 checks. Final: (TBD) checks.
- Maximum runtime 180 min.
- No movies that have previously been selected for the World Cup.
- Not multiple movies by the same director.
- If two managers pick the same movie, the one who picked first gets it.
iCM-list of all movies in this Managers Cup

List of all topics related to the Managers Cup including previous seasons of the World Cup
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
72aicm
Donator
Posts: 3998
Joined: November 13th, 2016, 7:00 am
Contact:

#2

Post by 72aicm »

1. Il tetto
2. The Visit

Both of them great. Both on my <400 list.
User avatar
russa03
Posts: 419
Joined: June 28th, 2015, 6:00 am
Location: Scotland
Contact:

#3

Post by russa03 »

1. Il tetto
2. The Visit
User avatar
shugs
Donator
Posts: 939
Joined: November 15th, 2014, 7:00 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Contact:

#4

Post by shugs »

1. The Roof - 9/10
2. The Visit - 7/10

Both strong movies, I just resonated with The Roof much more (and it is a fresher watch), especially now, since me and my gf are looking to buy a place of our own. Felt every emotion the characters went through.
User avatar
beavis
Posts: 3629
Joined: June 20th, 2011, 6:00 am
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Contact:

#5

Post by beavis »

1. The Visit - 7.5
2. Il Tetto - 7

Both a bit old school in the story telling department (being obvious morality plays), but the Visit having a stronger story being the clear winner. Overall they are pretty equal with nice actors and no complaints on the technical side of things. These have been languishing on my to see list for a very long time now, so thanks for the managers for selecting them and helping me crossing them off, they were fun movies (sadly no great new discoveries for me).
User avatar
Armoreska
Posts: 14544
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Ukraine, former Free Territory
Contact:

#6

Post by Armoreska »

1. Il Tetto
2. El Visitto

soy rewatchedo
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 14166
Joined: February 3rd, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#7

Post by sol »

Absolutely no shame in losing this match since everybody who has seen my pick so far liked it a lot; sacmersault just happened to choose a film that everyone regards as a masterpiece, so no matter what I would have pegged against it, it would have lost. I just hope that someone from this round adds The Visit to their 500<400 ballot. It was only one vote away from making the cut last time, and I nominated it in the hope of getting it extra exposure.

1. The Visit
2. The Roof
|iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | Gold Derby
Image
Long live the new flesh!
User avatar
Teproc
Posts: 1446
Joined: September 23rd, 2015, 6:00 am
Contact:

#8

Post by Teproc »

1. Il tetto
2. The Visit

Il tetto (Vittorio de Sica, 1956)

De Sica doing what he does best: emotionally manipulative (mostly in a good way) stories that explore the harsh realities of postwar Italy. Everything he does is, in some ways, obvious, like the framing of the new buildings constantly in the background or the constant mentions of money, really driving home the gradual drip-drip of every single penny when you don't have much of it, but hey, it all works, and it leads to a great ending, just as glorious as it is tragic.

7/10

The Visit (Bernhard Wicki, 1964)


Basically a live-action cartoon, except it also attempts to be a pretty earnest metaphor for... a number of things, including but not limited to the corrupting power of money, the patriarchy and fascism. It's just hard to make all of that work when Ingrid Bergman is out there hamming it up as hard as she can and no character behaves like an actual human being at any point - Wicki simply refuses to ever pick a lane, and the result is a gorgeously shot mess with a very fun Bergman performance in the middle of a very earnest morality tale.

5/10
User avatar
klaus78
Donator
Posts: 1761
Joined: March 27th, 2013, 6:00 am
Contact:

#9

Post by klaus78 »

1. Il tetto
2. The Visit
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 35101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#10

Post by joachimt »

Image Il tetto: 6
Image The Visit: 2
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
cayado-coro
Posts: 335
Joined: March 25th, 2012, 6:00 am
Contact:

#11

Post by cayado-coro »

1. Il tetto
2. The Visit
User avatar
Mario Gaborović
Posts: 4024
Joined: April 11th, 2014, 6:00 am
Location: Pančevo
Contact:

#12

Post by Mario Gaborović »

01. The Visit
02. Il tetto
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 35101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#14

Post by joachimt »

1. The Visit 8/10
2. Il Tetto 8-/10

Let's make both of these movies an official check on the next 500<400 update. :circle:
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
edward5
Posts: 331
Joined: August 3rd, 2013, 6:00 am
Contact:

#15

Post by edward5 »

1. The Visit
2. Il Tetto
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 35101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#16

Post by joachimt »

The Visit is catching up.

Image
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
Angel Glez
Posts: 2522
Joined: April 2nd, 2012, 6:00 am
Location: Spain
Contact:

#17

Post by Angel Glez »

1. Il tetto
2. The Visit

The last great De Sica.
User avatar
OldAle1
Donator
Posts: 7268
Joined: February 9th, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Dairyland, USA
Contact:

#18

Post by OldAle1 »

Wow did this end up being a great match-up. The films seemed particularly well-matched to me - one a rather misanthropic view of what wealth and power can do to a person and to a community, and the other a humanist portrait of what poverty results in, and how it can (sometimes) bring people together. Both beautifully shot b/w with excellent performances, and representing a Europe still struggling in the decades after the war. If I choose the film I choose it's probably because it enthralled me from the beginning, whereas I felt a little unsure of my feelings for the second until the last act.

1. The Visit - EXCELLENT
Spoiler
A poor, crumbling, ancient village awaits the arrival of it's most famous daughter, Karla Zachanassian, now the richest woman in the world; especially excited is Serge Miller (Anthony Quinn) who loved her as a youth and is now hoping to be elected mayor. The town desperately needs help, and Karla (Ingrid Bergman) seems to be the answer...until she steps off the train, and with one glance of her cold-eyed stare we the audience at least know that it's not going to be that simple. In quick succession the stare becomes a broad smile - then an enigmatic half-frown, and in a few seconds Bergman gives us the basics of Karla's complex relationship with this town - and especially with Serge. She is in fact willing to help the town - but at a price that may be too high to bear - she expects justice for the evils visited upon her, for being thrown out of the town as a whore at 17, pregnant with Serge's baby but jilted by him for the daughter of a prosperous store-owner. Her baby died quickly, her life ruined - even after her marriage to a billionaire - the justice she requires is a life for a life.

I read the play Der Besuch der alten Dame by Swiss writer Friedrich Dürrenmatt in my first year of college in German, alongside his novella Das Versprechen: Requiem auf den Kriminalroman; they were I'm sure among the most difficult German works I read, and my language skills at the time were barely enough to get the basics of them. But I've never forgotten either, both of them powerful moral dramas with a very dark view of humanity, and they certainly have had an affect on many others, such that each has been filmed multiple times. I've seen two versions of the latter story, and Djibril Diop Mambety's Hyènes, from the same source as this film, and liked them all. So it was probably only a matter of time before I'd get to this, but I'm glad it came when it did, it fit my mood. While the b/w Cinemascope work of DP Armando Nannuzzi and the performances of Quinn and the secondary cast are all notable, this film really belongs to Bergman, who gives one of her very best performances as the brittle, cold, broken yet inconceivably powerful billionaire, who literally holds the lives of everyone around her in her hands. The scene between her and Quinn near the end is both heartbreaking and brutally cold, and her portrayal of hurt that can metastasize into revenge and murder is as strong as any I can think of in such a role.

I can't think of anything really wrong with the film; if it doesn't quite reach the very top level for me, I guess it's because there are bits of the narrative that seem a little thin - I'd have liked to see more of the doctor and the Priest for example, who early on and for most of the film resist the inevitable turn of the townspeople against Serge, and that turning seems a little quick and easy, though perhaps that's part of a satirical point. And I'm not absolutely sure I like the way the filmmakers changed the ending - it's still dark but it feels a little - artificial I guess. Just a little. Anyway, great stuff overall. I've never been an enormous Bergman fan but films like this show me that I probably should be.
2. Il tetto - EXCELLENT
Spoiler
Another film set in a crumbling town - though in this case, it's the crumbling poorer areas of Rome, and the story is a familiar one for those who've watched much Neorealism, or some of it's descendants and parallel movements. Luisa (Gabriella Pallotta) and Natale (Giorgio Listuzzi) are newlyweds - the first scene is their marriage - and they go into the marriage full of hopes and dreams, despite the poverty that both come from. Indeed the wedding scene promises much more than they will likely ever achieve - a big church, a prosperous looking area, everybody dressed to the nines - but quickly the world comes crashing down, or perhaps in this films case, settles down - as there are no large tragedies here or even anything quite as significant as we see in De Sica's earlier Ladri di biciclette. No, the film simply chronicles the couple's attempts to find a place to live that they can afford, and that isn't full of a dozen yelling and screaming family members. First they have to live with Natale's family for a while; Luisa's father doesn't approve of the marriage (or her, it seems); when Natale gets an all right job as a bricklayer, he soon finds that other bricklayers have been involved in building illegal shanty-houses for themselves or friends and family, but that doesn't seem to be the way to go, as the police are always on the lookout. Eventually after several tries and failures, Natale comes up with a solution, even as Luisa is now pregnant, and working. While this ends on a positive note, it feels very much earned, and there's no feeling that this couple's troubles are over; the couple does reconcile somewhat with her brother-in-law Cesare who they'd fought with earlier, but Luisa's father is still nowhere to be seen; there are still certainly problems on the horizon. Like The Visit this was filmed on location, and the crumbling tenements, cheap brick shacks, and new high-rises help as much as the teeming throngs of family members and workers throughout the film to paint a portrait of a country with many resources that seem very poorly distributed a decade after the war.

Really fine on the whole; certainly not as great as a couple of the director's other films, but I'm very happy to see this as I'd been somewhat disinterested in seeing more of De Sica in his serous mode; I've liked the more comedic films I've seen in the past few years and feel that he's as strong in that area. This makes me want to go back and revisit some of the more famous dramas which I haven't seen in a long, long time.
Thanks so much sol and sacmersault! Two great viewings - and both will almost certainly be on my 500<400 list this year.
User avatar
clemmetarey
Donator
Posts: 2612
Joined: November 20th, 2011, 7:00 am
Contact:

#20

Post by clemmetarey »

01. The Visit (1964) 5/10
02. Il tetto (1956) 5/10

Two films that didn't work for me I'm afraid, I'm giving an edge to The Visit for what it manages to made me feel.
User avatar
St. Gloede
Moderator
Posts: 13703
Joined: May 6th, 2011, 6:00 am
Contact:

#21

Post by St. Gloede »

1. The Visit 8/10
2. The Roof 7/10
User avatar
sacmersault
Posts: 828
Joined: November 17th, 2013, 7:00 am
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
Contact:

#22

Post by sacmersault »

1. Il Tetto
2. The Visit
User avatar
sol
Donator
Posts: 14166
Joined: February 3rd, 2017, 7:00 am
Location: Perth, WA, Australia
Contact:

#23

Post by sol »

OldAle1 wrote: January 30th, 2022, 4:42 pm 1. The Visit - EXCELLENT

...

Thanks so much sol and sacmersault! Two great viewings - and both will almost certainly be on my 500<400 list this year.
Even though I lost I feel like I won between your very positive take and zzzorf's equally enthusiastic take on my nominated film. :D
|iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | Gold Derby
Image
Long live the new flesh!
User avatar
joachimt
Donator
Posts: 35101
Joined: February 16th, 2012, 7:00 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

#24

Post by joachimt »

Match over. That was a very close finish!!

Image

sacmersault wins and goes to the final.
ICM-profile
Fergenaprido: "I find your OCD to be adorable, J"
User avatar
sacmersault
Posts: 828
Joined: November 17th, 2013, 7:00 am
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
Contact:

#25

Post by sacmersault »

Can you guys remind me what are going to be the rules for the final?
I know that we cannot repeat Directors and cannot use previously used films in any cup. But...

How many checks?
The regions' thing is still on?
Can it be on any list or not?
Any others?
User avatar
zzzorf
Posts: 2331
Joined: April 14th, 2018, 6:00 am
Location: Kempsey, NSW, Australia
Contact:

#26

Post by zzzorf »

sacmersault wrote: February 1st, 2022, 4:05 am Can you guys remind me what are going to be the rules for the final?
I know that we cannot repeat Directors and cannot use previously used films in any cup. But...

How many checks?
The regions' thing is still on?
Can it be on any list or not?
Any others?
The only other rule would be the checks, we just never decided upon <100 or <50
Post Reply