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ICMForum's Favourite Movies 2021 Edition : Results topic

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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beavis
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#2841

Post by beavis »

Not all "my" movies did bad, but the following were some hard hits to take. This forum needs some more Perception de Ambiguity's, zuma's, viktor-vaudevillain's, perceval's and insomnius's to take part in the polls! ;)
Tim2460 wrote: April 8th, 2021, 6:58 pm #1334(⇩334, #1000) Siddeshwari (1990)
[सिद्धेश्वरी]
Directed by: Mani Kaul
Country: India
(293,7 Pts, 6 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–0–1
History: 1334100013841953249542398395NA6451←NA
ICheckMovies: 59 Checks , 6 Favourites , 3 Official lists
Plot: An impressionistic biographical look at Siddheshwari Devi (19081977), the classical Indian singer whose voice was appreciated by the maharajas and public alike. She was from Varanasi, India...
List of Voters:
beavis (22)
hurluberlu (91)
Perception de Ambiguity (105)
viktor-vaudevillain (NA)
perceval (572)
insomnius (NA)
Tim2460 wrote: April 8th, 2021, 8:29 pm #1352(⇩245, #1107) Rengoku eroica (1970)
[Heroic Purgatory]

[煉獄エロイカ]
Directed by: Yoshishige Yoshida
Country: Japan
(285,74 Pts, 4 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–2–2
History: 135211071280103711679659228002571←NA
ICheckMovies: 220 Checks , 34 Favourites , 2 Official lists
Plot: An engineer's wife returns home with a lost teenager. A man posing as her dad tries to get her back, causing the engineer to recall his youth as a revolutionary, obscured by dreamlike disruptions of time and space, fantasy and reality.
List of Voters:
beavis (4)
St. Gloede (5)
clemmetarey (129)
perceval (320)
Tim2460 wrote: April 9th, 2021, 10:53 am #1523(⇩711, #812) Cavalo Dinheiro (2014)
[Horse Money]

Directed by: Pedro Costa
Country: Portugal
(251,24 Pts, 5 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–0–1
History: 15238128461126111212652101NANA←NA
ICheckMovies: 374 Checks , 38 Favourites , 4 Official lists
Plot: "The time is now, a numbing and timeless present of hospital stays, bureaucratic questioning, and wandering through remembered spaces... and suddenly it is also then, the mid '70s and the ...
List of Voters:
beavis (18)
zuma (52)
viktor-vaudevillain (NA)
perceval (294)
Perception de Ambiguity (2349)
Tim2460 wrote: April 9th, 2021, 11:54 am #1535(⇩277, #1258) Trys dienos (1991)
[Three Days]

Directed by: Sharunas Bartas
Country: Soviet Union, Lithuania
(248,92 Pts, 6 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–1–2
History: 153512581339152515532220173217562050←NA
ICheckMovies: 171 Checks , 15 Favourites , 2 Official lists
Plot: In Kaliningrad two Lithuanian boys meet two Russian girls. They have difficulties in finding places where they can sleep together. But this is the only problem they do solve. All four ...
List of Voters:
beavis (9)
perceval (41)
Melvelet (NA)
zuma (NA)
insomnius (NA)
Perception de Ambiguity (2552)
Tim2460 wrote: April 9th, 2021, 7:18 pm #1622(⇩312, #1310) Cosmopolis (2012)
Directed by: David Cronenberg
Country: Canada, France, Portugal, Italy
(236,13 Pts, 11 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–0–0
History: 1622131097484313801232127111411459←NA
ICheckMovies: 4056 Checks , 170 Favourites , 2 Official lists
Plot: Riding across Manhattan in a stretch limo in order to get a haircut, a 28-year-old billionaire asset manager's day devolves into an odyssey with a cast of characters that start to tear his world apart.
List of Voters:
beavis (134)
St. Gloede (174)
brokenface (216)
zuma (NA)
OldAle1 (NA)
Smoover (NA)
zomgmouse (NA)
sebby (617)
jeff_v (848)
perceval (883)
Jimi Antiloop (923)
Tim2460 wrote: April 9th, 2021, 8:59 pm #1642(⇩664, #978) Gummo (1997)
Directed by: Harmony Korine
Country: USA
(232,34 Pts, 4 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–0–1
History: 164297887298711561166694649790←NA
ICheckMovies: 4233 Checks , 423 Favourites , 5 Official lists
Plot: Lonely residents of a tornado-stricken Ohio town wander the deserted landscape trying to fulfill their boring, nihilistic lives.
List of Voters:
beavis (48)
TraverseTown (70)
kongs_speech (NA)
Torgo (658)
Tim2460 wrote: April 9th, 2021, 11:20 pm #1670(⇩358, #1312) La vie nouvelle (2002)
[A New Life]

Directed by: Philippe Grandrieux
Country: France
(228,82 Pts, 5 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–1–1
History: 167013121061121012851776165514581506←NA
ICheckMovies: 180 Checks , 25 Favourites , 1 Official lists
Plot: The story involves a young American who falls obsessively in love with a mysterious courtesan named Melania against the backdrop of a dilapidated Eastern European landscape.
List of Voters:
beavis (3)
viktor-vaudevillain (NA)
Onderhond (246)
Perception de Ambiguity (254)
insomnius (NA)
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 1:16 am #1979(⇩514, #1465) Sombre (1998)
Directed by: Philippe Grandrieux
Country: France
(187,4 Pts, 4 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–0–1
History: 197914651103120313271348132414061904←NA
ICheckMovies: 338 Checks , 26 Favourites , 2 Official lists
Plot: A sexually frustrated serial killer takes a liking to a woman he comes across.
List of Voters:
beavis (11)
viktor-vaudevillain (NA)
Perception de Ambiguity (257)
insomnius (NA)
Tim2460 wrote: April 10th, 2021, 1:51 am #1700(⇩694, #1006) Liquid Sky (1982)
Directed by: Slava Tsukerman
Country: USA
(223,88 Pts, 6 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–1–1
History: 1700100611121778209924422595NANA←NA
ICheckMovies: 765 Checks , 58 Favourites , 4 Official lists
Plot: A small, heroin seeking UFO lands on a Manhattan roof, observes a bizarre, drug addicted fashion model and sucks endorphin from her sexual encounters' brains.
List of Voters:
TraverseTown (8)
peeptoad (NA)
beavis (202)
zomgmouse (NA)
insomnius (NA)
Jimi Antiloop (657)
Tim2460 wrote: April 10th, 2021, 10:20 pm #1944(⇩989, #955) Szerelem (1971)
[Love]

Directed by: Károly Makk
Country: Hungary
(190,71 Pts, 5 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–0–0
History: 19449551134143815411672145615521354←NA
ICheckMovies: 389 Checks , 51 Favourites , 7 Official lists
Plot: The wife of a political prisoner tends to her mother-in-law and keeps from the old woman the truth about her son, whom she believes is in New York making a film.
List of Voters:
russa03 (74)
Gorro (269)
Tarris1 (NA)
beavis (345)
sol (364)
finally a shout-out to this one finally breaking the 2000... lets make it closer to 1000 next time!!
Tim2460 wrote: April 10th, 2021, 6:53 pm #1903(NEW) I fidanzati (1963)

Directed by: Ermanno Olmi
Country: Italy
(196,21 Pts, 7 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–0–0
History: 190330073008319034362858301068307430←NA

ICheckMovies: 487 Checks , 51 Favourites , 2 Official lists
Plot: Despite his fiancee's reluctance, a young man moves to Sicily for a better job, but soon starts questioning his decision.
List of Voters:
lineuphere (126)
beavis (205)
Tarris1 (NA)
zuma (NA)
clemmetarey (424)
zomgmouse (NA)
jeff_v (702)
THANKS FOR HOSTING TIM!!
Last edited by beavis on April 11th, 2021, 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Onderhond
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#2842

Post by Onderhond »

prodigalgodson wrote: April 11th, 2021, 4:55 am Surprised no onderhond love, seems right up his alley.
Watched it again last year. It could really do with a restoration. Still a very good film, it's just that it tumbled a little on my toplist. It's somewhere around #750 now, but it'll get back on as I keep on expanding my list of favorites :)
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#2843

Post by St. Gloede »

prodigalgodson wrote: April 11th, 2021, 7:16 am
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 2:21 am #1992(⇧601, #2593) Bilder der Welt und Inschrift des Krieges (1989)
[Images of the World and the Inscription of War]

Directed by: Harun Farocki
Country: West Germany
(184,75 Pts, 4 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–0–0
History: 199225931895198030304619440025354608←NA
ICheckMovies: 154 Checks , 11 Favourites , 4 Official lists
Plot: Documentary examines the 'blind spot' of the evaluators of aerial footage of the IG Farben industrial plant taken by the Americans in 1944.
List of Voters:
Perception de Ambiguity (116)
Carmel1379 (NA)
viktor-vaudevillain (NA)
OldAle1 (NA)
I gotta get around to Farocki...
Oh yes! I think you'll love Farocki.
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#2844

Post by St. Gloede »

Thank you so much for hosting Tim - really great presentation - and I loved the stats after the first 1001 films.
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#2845

Post by tommy_leazaq »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 7:53 am It feels Good to have finished the runner's Up.

I'll ask Chilton tu update the 1001-2001 List @ iCM.

That part will also be affected by the same duplicate vote and unranked too high for one list bugs.
On such low score we're around on the 1800-2000 range, even a small error can lead to masive >50 rank change don't be too suprised.
The excel file i'll post on the poll thread to be used next year will be the corrected version.

Step learning curve for a newb but i made it ;)
Thanks for hosting, Tim. Great job! :cheers:

I'll also need that excel file to update one of my list. So, What is that poll thread?
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#2846

Post by Onderhond »

Thanks for all the work Tim.

Maybe one final request: can you make a top 50 or 100 Ain't Nobody's Blues? (highest ranked films with only 1 vote)
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#2847

Post by Tim2460 »

Interesting stat as i was playing with the voters ...

The only People that posted an list theses last 10 Years

Total Nbval
brokenface 10
Dolwphin 10
frbrown 10
jeff_v 10
jvv 10
mightysparks 10
mjf314 10
tommy_leazaq 10
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#2848

Post by Tim2460 »

tommy_leazaq wrote: April 11th, 2021, 9:40 am
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 7:53 am It feels Good to have finished the runner's Up.

I'll ask Chilton tu update the 1001-2001 List @ iCM.

That part will also be affected by the same duplicate vote and unranked too high for one list bugs.
On such low score we're around on the 1800-2000 range, even a small error can lead to masive >50 rank change don't be too suprised.
The excel file i'll post on the poll thread to be used next year will be the corrected version.

Step learning curve for a newb but i made it ;)
Thanks for hosting, Tim. Great job! :cheers:

I'll also need that excel file to update one of my list. So, What is that poll thread?
It's that thread : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1183
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#2849

Post by Tim2460 »

Onderhond wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:02 am Thanks for all the work Tim.

Maybe one final request: can you make a top 50 or 100 Ain't Nobody's Blues? (highest ranked films with only 1 vote)
You want it as an ICM List Hond or just an Paste here ?
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#2850

Post by St. Gloede »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:17 am Interesting stat as i was playing with the voters ...

The only People that posted an list theses last 10 Years

Total Nbval
brokenface 10
Dolwphin 10
frbrown 10
jeff_v 10
jvv 10
mightysparks 10
mjf314 10
tommy_leazaq 10
I believe I did too, but I changed my username.
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#2851

Post by Tim2460 »

I have St. Gloede votes for the last 8 years ... Nothing in 2012-13... Remenber of your lost Nick ?
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#2852

Post by Coryn »

I must be blind Tim but I can't find the excel at all.
I saved Latin, what did you ever do ?
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#2853

Post by Tim2460 »

Coryn Still working on it ;) : will hand it back to PA l8er today i guess
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#2854

Post by mightysparks »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:30 am I have St. Gloede votes for the last 8 years ... Nothing in 2012-13... Remenber of your lost Nick ?
Crinderman was his old name
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#2855

Post by Coryn »

Oh alright I misunderstood.

Tyty
I saved Latin, what did you ever do ?
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#2856

Post by tommy_leazaq »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:18 am
tommy_leazaq wrote: April 11th, 2021, 9:40 am
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 7:53 am It feels Good to have finished the runner's Up.

I'll ask Chilton tu update the 1001-2001 List @ iCM.

That part will also be affected by the same duplicate vote and unranked too high for one list bugs.
On such low score we're around on the 1800-2000 range, even a small error can lead to masive >50 rank change don't be too suprised.
The excel file i'll post on the poll thread to be used next year will be the corrected version.

Step learning curve for a newb but i made it ;)
Thanks for hosting, Tim. Great job! :cheers:

I'll also need that excel file to update one of my list. So, What is that poll thread?
It's that thread : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1183
Thank you :)
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#2857

Post by Tim2460 »

mightysparks wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:38 am
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:30 am I have St. Gloede votes for the last 8 years ... Nothing in 2012-13... Remenber of your lost Nick ?
Crinderman was his old name
Mighty will you take a look at the excel Sheet to fill the gaps with the nick changes you're aware of ?
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#2858

Post by Lakigigar »

Thank you Tim for organizing this!
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#2859

Post by mightysparks »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:51 am
mightysparks wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:38 am
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:30 am I have St. Gloede votes for the last 8 years ... Nothing in 2012-13... Remenber of your lost Nick ?
Crinderman was his old name
Mighty will you take a look at the excel Sheet to fill the gaps with the nick changes you're aware of ?
Erm, I can try but my memory is pretty bad these days :P
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#2860

Post by Carmel1379 »

Cheers Tim!

To celebrate Lars von Trier, I will make a hornet tattooine on the first of May!? :cowbow:
arritame no yume nikki & I suppose I’ll have to add the force of gravity to my list of enemies
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#2861

Post by Tim2460 »

mightysparks wrote: April 11th, 2021, 11:23 am
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:51 am
mightysparks wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:38 am

Crinderman was his old name
Mighty will you take a look at the excel Sheet to fill the gaps with the nick changes you're aware of ?
Erm, I can try but my memory is pretty bad these days :P
That happens more and more when you're getting older you know :hug:
I still remember 99% of the lyrics of the TOP50 80's songs : cmon i don't need that
Can't remember my Weeding Anniversary every Year :facepalm:
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#2862

Post by Tim2460 »

The top 5000 Favorited Films, averaged over the 10 Years Votes is online :

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/icm+ ... n/tim2460/
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#2863

Post by Tim2460 »

Here are the Voter's History for Mighty and anyone who want's to fill the gaps

https://we.tl/t-iGFZlxzEWz

We could/will use that file to remind usual voters to vote and continue the obituary Votes tradition.
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#2864

Post by Lonewolf2003 »

Thanks for everything, Tim
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#2865

Post by Onderhond »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:19 am
Onderhond wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:02 am Thanks for all the work Tim.

Maybe one final request: can you make a top 50 or 100 Ain't Nobody's Blues? (highest ranked films with only 1 vote)
You want it as an ICM List Hond or just an Paste here ?
Paste here is fine :)
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#2866

Post by cinewest »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 11:52 am The top 5000 Favorited Films, averaged over the 10 Years Votes is online :

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/icm+ ... n/tim2460/
Thanks for all your work, Tim, and a vey nice job
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#2867

Post by Tim2460 »

Onderhond wrote: April 11th, 2021, 12:13 pm
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:19 am
Onderhond wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:02 am Thanks for all the work Tim.

Maybe one final request: can you make a top 50 or 100 Ain't Nobody's Blues? (highest ranked films with only 1 vote)
You want it as an ICM List Hond or just an Paste here ?
Paste here is fine :)
Got to gather some info to create minimum Posts then : don't expect to have Plot for every film :shrug:
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#2868

Post by mightysparks »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:51 am
mightysparks wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:38 am
Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 10:30 am I have St. Gloede votes for the last 8 years ... Nothing in 2012-13... Remenber of your lost Nick ?
Crinderman was his old name
Mighty will you take a look at the excel Sheet to fill the gaps with the nick changes you're aware of ?
intothewild = AdamH
ArthurYanthar = Pretentious Hipster = XxXApathy420XxX = Ettinauer226XL
Crinderman = St. Gloede
Carmel98 = Carmel1379
bobbybrown = monk-time

Typos (some are fixed in the 'total' column but might be good to fix up all the columns for next time):
'Wonderful' = Wonderful Rainbow
'Pretentious' = Pretentious Hipster
'Mr' = Mr Hulot
'Marta' = Marta Brito
'The' = The MadcapLaughs
'Lilarc0r' = Lilarcor
'Mysterious' = Mysterious Dude
'St.' = St. Gloede
'Dude' = DudeLanez
'Darth' = Darth Nevets
'Bob' = Bob Brooker
'Cynical' = Cynical Cinephile
'Jay' = Jay Mars
'John' = John Milton
'Nathan' = Nathan Treadway


'Film' voted in 2018 ???

Apologies if I made a mistake or forgot a name change.
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#2869

Post by Onderhond »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 12:26 pm Got to gather some info to create minimum Posts then : don't expect to have Plot for every film :shrug:
Oh, no worries! Just a list of titles is good enough, maybe with the voter is you have that. You don't have to make it into a full post/film :)
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#2870

Post by Gordon_Gekko »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 11:52 am The top 5000 Favorited Films, averaged over the 10 Years Votes is online :

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/icm+ ... n/tim2460/
Yes, you really made it for a top 5000! :thumbsup:
I can only agree with the others and say "thanks for hosting". Well done!
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#2871

Post by Tim2460 »

mightysparks wrote: April 11th, 2021, 12:27 pm Apologies if I made a mistake or forgot a name change.
Thx Lauren : Took all remark to action and got an Final 302 Voters/Lines sheet

Even if i'm kinda new here ... i do already see people on that list i wish were still active
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#2872

Post by cinewest »

tobias wrote: April 11th, 2021, 5:41 am
cinewest wrote: April 11th, 2021, 12:58 am Aren’t culture and economics intertwined?

Watching the whole Trump phenomenon, Brexit, all the radical Muslim and nationalist movements around the world in recent years, I have become evermore aware of how “tribal” most people, and that has everything to do with culture, though economics and a bunch of other realities also play a part.
Of course, higher education tends to create a more global sensibility, but it is very difficult to change where and what you come from, much of which most people aren’t even really that conscious of.
That said, I really began speaking about the influence of culture and gender as it pertains to the users on this forum.

I understand what you mean about the dominant culture of any country not really speaking to or for its youth, but business marketers in America (perhaps the drivers if not creators of American culture) are very savvy, and they spend a lot of effort trying to indoctrinate the youth into the consumer culture, precisely by co-opting what appeals to young people, including counter culture, even rebellion, as part of their very sophisticated product promotion.

Any real threat to the system doesn’t have to be repressed or destroyed, simply paid off.

It’s been interesting living in China, where besides teaching, I also freelance as a copywriter in the advertising industry because in the process I witness very different methods of social indoctrination that is culturally specific to them.

I don’t want to belabor our disagreement over the influence of gender on films, though I think it is very clear that there is a preference on this forum for “male oriented, subject matter, themes, and sensibilities whether these films are made by men or women (yes I acknowledge that some male directors (like Rohmer) might appeal more to women, and a scant few female filmmakers (like Bigelow) might appeal more to men.


As for films popping up, my last post slotted in right after Claire Denis’ The Intruder (maybe her most difficult film, but also among her most interesting), and before Sex & Lucia, when I was discussing Balkan War films, No Man’s Land rolled out right after that post. There was also at least one other like coincidence earlier on, but I forgot what it was.

On a related note, I just came across a German/Spanish co production directed by a woman called For The Time Being (English title) that is streaming on Mubi, and would seem to speak to various themes we hav been discussing. Have you heard of it?

Would love to hear your thoughts on Before the Rain, though it is probably more my kind of film than yours- sensualist, deeply felt, yet also highly imaginative as a narrative, and full of arresting imagery and outstanding soundscape, as well as about a serious human problem that has to do with our “tribalism.”

Also, I didn’t mention it in my last response, but I thought Kusturica’s Underground was very Felliniesque.
Ok, I have some long and winding thoughts on what you bring up in your first paragraph but I feel like it would completely derail this discussion. We can take it another time if you want or perhaps at least in another thread. Suffice to say I disagree with you. To me the cultural thing is a cover-up for an actual economic story behind it.

To get it a bit back on track I would suggest that in cinephilia we have created a form of different derrivative culture. For example I can not claim that I really understand Ozu's films but I have accepted the Ozu universe so to speak, I have created a derivative idea of Japan in my head that works to decode Ozu films into something that I can understand and that appeals to me. Japan to a European should be by far the most outlandish culture that exists. I mean you sit on the ground or on pillows in those thin-walled houses and you don't ever muck up, excuse me but what the fuck? If I were to react from my South-Schleswigian German-Danish Western European cultural heritage watching an Ozu film would be full of what the fucks. But I don't. I actually watch it like I would e.g. a fantasy film and I accept that in this universe certain rules are in place which you don't question. Reality is a distant thought at the back of my head and actually interpreting these rules makes it a more rich and interesting experience assuming I have been inducted to the basics. I watch US-American films in the same way, even US news, certain sub-genres (like film-noir or western) even have their own rules on top. In fact when suddenly an element of reality is introduced to the American western (like in the films of Kelly Reichardt) this is at the outset a bit alienating, because I have been accustumoed to the rules of full on Fordian mythology already. However overall I don't think accepting these rules is such a big deal. Cineasts have to do it in order to survive, if one would constantly question everything that doesn't make sense one would go insane. And why is it harder to accept the rules of Latin American cinema than the rules of e.g. Marvel films. I don't think it is, Latin American cinema is just not showed down your throat like the MCU. When I watched Avengers I did not understand jackshit of what they are speaking about, it all felt like silly in universe refference and I'm a normal guy in my 20's (in my teens when I watched Avengers and hated it). I somehow doubt the experience is all that different for most other people but they seem to accept these rules because they are showed down their throat at gunpoint. I mean it's what you have to do to see some state of the art special effects I guess. I believe the rules we have been conditioned to accept largely derive not from culture but from film itself.
Regarding the "cultural, tribal, economic" thing, we should probably table that for now. My live in girl friend for much of my 20's studied marxist philosophy as an undergrad, and considered Angela Davis (whom she studied with, and, being biracial, identified with to some extent) her mentor, but she finished her PHD with a dissertation on Kant, if only because Marx is on the outs in most Western schools of philosophy these days. We actually met during a philosophical argument she was having with another student in a cafe near school, and as you might imagine ,I've had plenty of discussions along these lines with her in the past. I might liken my own perspective on human behavior and organization to that of a cultural anthropologist, and tend to believe that while I think we are capable of tremendous growth, even great shifts in our sense of our own identities during the course of our lives, the majority of people "stay fairly close to home in their thinking and perspectives on most things, and that includes how they view movies.

I love what you wrote about the "derivative culture of cinephilia," and fully identify with your description of a great way to approach and engage the movies we see, especially those that are operating beyond the familiar. I would argue, though, that we also take our "biases" (and I don't necessarily mean this critically) to the movies with us. I would further argue that the "rules we have been conditioned to accept" have everything to do with culture.
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#2873

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Thanks a lot for your work Tim!
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#2874

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cinewest wrote: April 11th, 2021, 1:17 pm Regarding the "cultural, tribal, economic" thing, we should probably table that for now. My live in girl friend for much of my 20's studied marxist philosophy as an undergrad, and considered Angela Davis (whom she studied with, and, being biracial, identified with to some extent) her mentor, but she finished her PHD with a dissertation on Kant, if only because Marx is on the outs in most Western schools of philosophy these days. We actually met during a philosophical argument she was having with another student in a cafe near school, and as you might imagine ,I've had plenty of discussions along these lines with her in the past. I might liken my own perspective on human behavior and organization to that of a cultural anthropologist, and tend to believe that while I think we are capable of tremendous growth, even great shifts in our sense of our own identities during the course of our lives, the majority of people "stay fairly close to home in their thinking and perspectives on most things, and that includes how they view movies.

I love what you wrote about the "derivative culture of cinephilia," and fully identify with your description of a great way to approach and engage the movies we see, especially those that are operating beyond the familiar. I would argue, though, that we also take our "biases" (and I don't necessarily mean this critically) to the movies with us. I would further argue that the "rules we have been conditioned to accept" have everything to do with culture.
Well, if your wife studied marxist philosophy, you probably know a lot of the inns and outs, so I'll spare you now :lol: - for what it's worth, I don't entirely buy Marx' materialist reading of history at least not in the way he lays it out I am also on a personal level very interested in the strains in philosophy that go against Hegel and even in anthropology. But I find as a tool to analyze society, Marx' materialism is very useful. I'm always suspicious if people point to immaterial causes. For example (as it's also film-industry-related) the way these Metoo cases and other sexual allegations are portrayed in the media is in my view largely a right-wing narrative that focuses on "the evil perpetrators" instead of the system that made them or enabled them (which is not surprising because at least American mass media is mostly right-wing). I tend to sepparate the personal and the political here the same way one should not equate personal finances with state finances . For example personally I like Hoelderlin and Rilke so much better than Brecht - and Rilke was famously a fascist supporter at the end of his life but honestly it doesn't really make a difference to me. One reason however why I tend to be especially insistent on materialism in the political sphere is because the modern left increasingly forgets about it.

What I meant by "derivative culture of cinephilia" is excactly that it's not really the same as our daily life culture. For example there are a few films from Schleswig-Holstein and Jutland at large that I will very intimately be able to understand from the culture I experience in the day to day. If I were a 24 y/o guy who had never seen a film before, these would probably still intuitively make a lot of sense to me. Recently I watched a Miniseries set where I live but made by a Swabian director and without any lead actor from Schleswig-Holstein and there were so many things that were off to me. Examples like this in my view are really your firsthand culture mirrored in film.

However I think mostly what happens is that when we watch a film is that we engage with derivative culture. When we don't really have first-hand experience, our understanding of media emerges primarily from media itself. Now you could claim that for example your exposure to primarily American films in your youth is still part of your culture and I would agree with you but in my view this distinction implies that if neither of us was involved in the mob millieu and neither of us would have ever seen a mob film, our starting point is possibly quite similar regardless of where we are from. I'll admit that there are some films - like the ones Scorsese made - that contain possibly so much nuance and detail in their characterization of these millieus that there are a lot of things one could possibly latch onto that could serve to build a connection but most mob films are way more fantastical than Goodfellas and don't contain this level of historical detail at all. I even heard a story of a mobster who watched the film with his girlfriend who had little idea of what the mafia were doing - and then she asked him if it's really like that and he says and he plays it down by saying that Hollywood of course cares primarily about a good story - next thing: his name is mentioned. He is portrayed as a character in the film. He since reconsidered how close to reality it was.

There are large cultural differences even within countries. There are a couple of German films where I really feel a first-hand connection to it. For instance Große Freiheit Nr. 7 which is set in Hamburg and deals with a seaman turned red-light district singer, that one hits very close to home also because of some of the finer nuances, like the accents in which they speak, etc. However say a film from Bavaria or a dubbed one from France, would that necesarilly make a difference to someone from here (assuming the dub is good)? I don't really know. If we go on the other side of the border (I grew up bilingually, so I speak both Danish and German natively and most of my close family lives in Denmark) a film like e.g. Ordet (1955) which is set in some small village in the middle of Jutland hits very close to home for me. With modern films set almost entirely in Copenhagen however you're really starting to stretch it. I've actually been there quite a number of times in recent years for various reasons but I still feel so little connection to that place (and with how anglo-crazed people are it is legitimately alienating, once I was mistaken for a Swede two days in a row and I speak Danish since, well, always...). Actually I would go so far to say that a rural Bergman film (i.e. most of them) again hits much closer to the culture I know and understand (that's what the Copenhageners get for mistaking me for a Swede!). Similarly I was in Småland a couple of weeks last year and even though because it was so isolated and because of pandemic reasons we didn't interact that much with the locals, to me it feels as though I almost intrinsically have an understanding of that place, at least along the general lines. Anyway what I'm really trying to say here is that when I watch Fanny and Alexander my reaction is "oh, I know this, people live like this and celebrate christmas like this, etc." but the sample size of films that trigger a first hand cultural reaction like this is not all that large. I could probably draw you a circle on a map and say that outside of that I increasingly don't notice anything that significantly pertains to the lived culture I personally know.

My suggestion is that for most of us in reality this cultural circle is not enormously big and films from the outside we have all been inducted into. For me to include all of Germany in that circle you would already have to introduce such a lose definition of culture that I would be skeptical if it means anything. Of course I realize that it's not quite as black and white but I would insist on that a lot of our film-viewing culture is lifted directly from media itself, not from what we would clasically call "our culture".
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#2875

Post by Chilton »

Update of the list 1001-2001. Thanks Tim!
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#2876

Post by Tim2460 »

Ain't Nobody's blues top 50 ...

Starting with the one and only #1 we haven't seen

#3337(NEW) The.Stand (1994)
[0]

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(100 Pts, 1 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 1–1–1
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#2877

Post by zzzorf »

Tim2460 wrote: April 11th, 2021, 9:49 pm Ain't Nobody's blues top 50 ...

Starting with the one and only #1 we haven't seen

#3337(NEW) The.Stand (1994)
[0]

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Directed by:
Country:
(100 Pts, 1 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 1–1–1
History: 333735033491NANANANANA4062←NA
ICheckMovies: 1706 Checks , 86 Favourites , 1 Official lists
Plot:
List of Voters:
zzzorf (1)
Yay me and my weird favourite movie of all time.
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#2878

Post by Tim2460 »

#3360(NEW) Xiao shi da kan (2011)
[Honey PuPu]

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Directed by: Hung-i Chen
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(99,21 Pts, 1 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–1–1
History: 33603521351641103987344734602902NA←NA
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Onderhond (3)
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#2879

Post by Tim2460 »

#3361(NEW) Dominion (2018)
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Directed by: Chris Delforce
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(99,21 Pts, 1 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–1–1
History: 336135223517NANANANANANA←NA
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#2880

Post by Tim2460 »

Main excel File posted on the Poll Thread : https://we.tl/t-LucLZCHP9N

Let me know if you need some info about that file
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