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Rankdown III - TSPDT Top 100 - Round 10, ballot round!

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Coryn
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#161

Post by Coryn »

I'm cutting 8 1/2

It's really something how all the top comments on icm are negative about this movie yet this keeps popping up in the top 10 on TSPDT. I don't think Ive read more on any other movie than this one. I really want to understand what im looking at but I simply don't. Maybe this is too advanced for me but then again some fault lies with the director. By comparison, I don't understand Zerkalo for more than 50% , yet i can see it is poetry and would watch that movie in theatre anytime it would be available. 8 1/2 on the other hand leaves me cold.
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OldAle1
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#162

Post by OldAle1 »

We've had loads of discussions about Fellini over the years and the consensus seems to be that while critics - at least the critics that help to place films high on lists like TSPDT and S&S - still seem to love him, he's lost a lot of love from younger audiences and even from some who still like the "old masters". Why that is remains more of an argument or point of discussion, but certainly he's less popular around here than his still-strong critical reputation might predict. Can't say for myself, have only watched a couple of films in the past couple of decades, and haven't seen 8 1/2 in I don't know how long. I have the recent Fellini box from Criterion but when will I get to it? Not in time to consider a veto here I think.
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#163

Post by beasterne »

My cut this round is Le mépris, aka Contempt. What can I say, it's another Godard film that seems more interested in deconstructing what a film is than giving me characters or a story that I care about. The scenery is nice to look at, and the villa on the island at the end of the film is very architecturally interesting, but that's about all this has going for it.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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Fergenaprido
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#164

Post by Fergenaprido »

My cut is Blade Runner. I don't know which version I saw it (almost exactly ten years ago... Feb 19, 2011), but it didn't leave me impressed. I'm debating whether or not to rewatch it (and make sure I see the supposedly better director's cut) before getting around to the sequel.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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#165

Post by sol »

Fergenaprido wrote: February 12th, 2021, 7:53 pm My cut is Blade Runner. I don't know which version I saw it (almost exactly ten years ago... Feb 19, 2011), but it didn't leave me impressed. I'm debating whether or not to rewatch it (and make sure I see the supposedly better director's cut) before getting around to the sequel.
:thumbsup: We might not see eye-to-eye on Seven Samurai but I am with you all the way with Blade Runner, and I think I might have even tried to cut it myself during the last rankdown. I've actually seen it at least two or three times over the years in various cuts and it has never really impressed me. And similarly, I have no idea whether to rewatch it in a different cut before checking out the sequel...
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#166

Post by OldAle1 »

Well my top 3 to cut are now gone. Everything left for me is either something I really, really like or love, or don't remember that well and just am not sure about. Next in line is one of those few and it's In the Mood for Love. I like just about all the WKW films I've seen, but the only one I love at this point is Happy Together - which is also the one I saw most recently. Maybe I'm finally starting to get him as someone who is more than just an amazing stylist? But when I saw this one (new), that's mostly what I felt, and I didn't connect, as I haven't with most of his very stylish, very beautiful, but ultimately only moderately satisfying films. Time for another chance maybe, but for now CHOP.
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#167

Post by prodigalgodson »

Fergenaprido wrote: February 12th, 2021, 4:32 am
toromash wrote: February 12th, 2021, 4:22 am yeah you are right. I think the idea behind the cut is the value it gives to me while watching. I don't find it interesting as a documentary. It's primary function in history and to me is that it serves as a toolbox on, how to do filmmaking (cinematography, editing etc). I respect that, and i actually found out that i rated it 10/10 (very old rating though).

What modern filmmaker are you referring to?
Himself ;)

He posted his films in the general forum, I believe. LA in Lockdown trilogy, I think.
Re: the toolbox remark, that's fair, though it does feel still fresh and unique to me. Ultimately imo the value a film gives to each viewer should be the determining factor in how each of us evaluates it (kind of tautological), but I do find discussion of why a film did or didn't work for a particular person valuable too. Seeing it in the context of Vertov's career, from his discovery of the newsreel method, to the increasingly imaginative and out-of-the-box techniques in his Kino-pravda series, to his wild adrenaline-laced experimentation of the late 20s/early 30s, gave it a lot more meaning for me too.

And yes, moi même :D In fact, the one I'm working on now is dedicated to Vertov.
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#168

Post by cinewest »

One of the things I find myself wondering is whether anyone here has changed their opinion about a film based on what somebody else says, ie. Has anyone ever seen or experienced a film differently after reading or hearing someone else talk about the film? Or do you believe that your experience of a film is impervious to outside influences, particularly those that are different from your own experience and thoughts about it?

And Assuming that some of you do change your opinion about films from time to time. What would you say are the primary reasons for that?

Maybe a good topic for an ICM podcast...
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#169

Post by Fergenaprido »

cinewest wrote: February 13th, 2021, 6:43 am One of the things I find myself wondering is whether anyone here has changed their opinion about a film based on what somebody else says, ie. Has anyone ever seen or experienced a film differently after reading or hearing someone else talk about the film? Or do you believe that your experience of a film is impervious to outside influences, particularly those that are different from your own experience and thoughts about it?

And Assuming that some of you do change your opinion about films from time to time. What would you say are the primary reasons for that?

Maybe a good topic for an ICM podcast...
Only once, that I can recall.

I saw Birdman and thought it was self-indulgent within the industry - actors being "actors", the "grand" theatre, and just a bunch of self-inflating egos parading on screen. I still thought it was technically amazing, with the cinematography and soundtrack the two standouts for me, so I settled on a 7.2 score.

Then I read a review that spoke of the film through the guise of mental illness, and it shifted my perspective. I haven't re-rated it yet, but I do want to rewatch it (also because when I saw it in theatres in Malaysia it was censored at a few parts, notably the lesbian kiss), and see what I think of the film now. Six years (and a couple thousand films) have passed, so I think there's enough of a buffer that I'll be watching it with fresher eyes than if I had rewatched it immediately upon reading that review.

So to answer your question, I didn't change my opinion because someone else's opinion said so, but I became open to reexamining my own opinion after receiving new information. Like any good scientist. :P

For other films where my opinion has changed (usually upgrading, but occasionally downgrading), there's no pattern. Sometimes it's because I'm older and understand the film better 20-15 years later, sometimes it's because I can understand the theme or technical achievements more clearly, sometimes I just don't know what I was thinking before, and sometimes my teen self just loved something for no clear reason that my adult self can fully grasp.
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#170

Post by prodigalgodson »

cinewest wrote: February 13th, 2021, 6:43 am One of the things I find myself wondering is whether anyone here has changed their opinion about a film based on what somebody else says, ie. Has anyone ever seen or experienced a film differently after reading or hearing someone else talk about the film? Or do you believe that your experience of a film is impervious to outside influences, particularly those that are different from your own experience and thoughts about it?
I've definitely had my opinion of films changed when I've read something that recontextualized or otherwise changed my understanding of them (eg becoming more familiar with a director's oeuvre and approach). Like I still have that set experience of watching the film at the time, but looking back on it it's partially recalled through the prism of that new insight, especially as more time passes, and especially if I got the relevant information close to the time of watching it. Can't think of an example off the bat unfortunately.

When I was younger I was very stubborn about the fact that watching a film is a discrete event, hermetically sealed off from context or anything but the subjective experience of watching it. But as time went on I realized I was lying to myself by not admitting that context and discussion could change my opinion of artworks, in service of some kind of dogma I had about the unassailable supremacy of subjectivity.
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#171

Post by brokenface »

I've held off but now i have to go for Jeanne Dielman. It's a film that makes for good discussion point but could have made same points at half or quarter the length, and that makes large parts of the film feel like a pointless endurance test.

I've updated with oldale's cut too.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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cinewest
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#172

Post by cinewest »

prodigalgodson wrote: February 13th, 2021, 7:18 am
cinewest wrote: February 13th, 2021, 6:43 am One of the things I find myself wondering is whether anyone here has changed their opinion about a film based on what somebody else says, ie. Has anyone ever seen or experienced a film differently after reading or hearing someone else talk about the film? Or do you believe that your experience of a film is impervious to outside influences, particularly those that are different from your own experience and thoughts about it?
I've definitely had my opinion of films changed when I've read something that recontextualized or otherwise changed my understanding of them (eg becoming more familiar with a director's oeuvre and approach). Like I still have that set experience of watching the film at the time, but looking back on it it's partially recalled through the prism of that new insight, especially as more time passes, and especially if I got the relevant information close to the time of watching it. Can't think of an example off the bat unfortunately.

When I was younger I was very stubborn about the fact that watching a film is a discrete event, hermetically sealed off from context or anything but the subjective experience of watching it. But as time went on I realized I was lying to myself by not admitting that context and discussion could change my opinion of artworks, in service of some kind of dogma I had about the unassailable supremacy of subjectivity.
I like your response, here, and pretty much feel the same. At the very least, I am willing to question and challenge, if not modify my own opinion of a film based on commentary from others that differs with my own sense of it, which ultimately leads to some kind of reconsideration of my experience and the way I have processed it, even as you have suggested, to a "reprocessing" of that experience by way of my reflection on the film through another's vision of it.

I don't do nearly as much reading on film as I once did, but if I watch a reputed classic or film that has received critical acclaim that I don't like, I usually spend some time trying to discover what others like so much about it, and why it is held in such high acclaim. That doesn't mean I'll always come around to liking the film, or filmmaker's work, but at least I will understand why it/they are appraised the way they are by so many who are knowledgable about film and film history.

I am still not a big fan of John Ford, for example, or Jean Luc Godard, for that matter, but I don't have trouble acknowledging their contribution and influence on the medium as well as on other filmmakers, many of whom I love, and before I criticize them or their work, I think it is important to become somewhat familiar with their intentions and approach to filmmaking, if only not to sound flippant or ignorant in my response.
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#173

Post by Onderhond »

cinewest wrote: February 13th, 2021, 6:43 am One of the things I find myself wondering is whether anyone here has changed their opinion about a film based on what somebody else says, ie. Has anyone ever seen or experienced a film differently after reading or hearing someone else talk about the film? Or do you believe that your experience of a film is impervious to outside influences, particularly those that are different from your own experience and thoughts about it?
Can't say I recall an instance when that happened. Then again, people generally come from a different angle than me and care about substantially different things in film than I do, so it's hard to even find people who write in depth about the same thing I care for. The closest I've come is some YouTube essay on Bay's signature visual style, which did make me appreciate it a little more. Can't say if that really made me like his films better though.
cinewest wrote: February 13th, 2021, 10:18 am I don't do nearly as much reading on film as I once did, but if I watch a reputed classic or film that has received critical acclaim that I don't like, I usually spend some time trying to discover what others like so much about it, and why it is held in such high acclaim. That doesn't mean I'll always come around to liking the film, or filmmaker's work, but at least I will understand why it/they are appraised the way they are by so many who are knowledgable about film and film history.
While I get why some people are interested in that aspect of cinema, I don't understand why they generally only grant highly acclaimed films that courtesy. Makes it sound like you care more about what others think of your opinion than wanting to find the true value of a film. It's another aspect of the self-reinforcing nature of canon I don't really appreciate.
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#174

Post by cinewest »

Fergenaprido wrote: February 13th, 2021, 7:10 am
cinewest wrote: February 13th, 2021, 6:43 am One of the things I find myself wondering is whether anyone here has changed their opinion about a film based on what somebody else says, ie. Has anyone ever seen or experienced a film differently after reading or hearing someone else talk about the film? Or do you believe that your experience of a film is impervious to outside influences, particularly those that are different from your own experience and thoughts about it?

And Assuming that some of you do change your opinion about films from time to time. What would you say are the primary reasons for that?

Maybe a good topic for an ICM podcast...
Only once, that I can recall.

I saw Birdman and thought it was self-indulgent within the industry - actors being "actors", the "grand" theatre, and just a bunch of self-inflating egos parading on screen. I still thought it was technically amazing, with the cinematography and soundtrack the two standouts for me, so I settled on a 7.2 score.

Then I read a review that spoke of the film through the guise of mental illness, and it shifted my perspective. I haven't re-rated it yet, but I do want to rewatch it (also because when I saw it in theatres in Malaysia it was censored at a few parts, notably the lesbian kiss), and see what I think of the film now. Six years (and a couple thousand films) have passed, so I think there's enough of a buffer that I'll be watching it with fresher eyes than if I had rewatched it immediately upon reading that review.

So to answer your question, I didn't change my opinion because someone else's opinion said so, but I became open to reexamining my own opinion after receiving new information. Like any good scientist. :P

For other films where my opinion has changed (usually upgrading, but occasionally downgrading), there's no pattern. Sometimes it's because I'm older and understand the film better 20-15 years later, sometimes it's because I can understand the theme or technical achievements more clearly, sometimes I just don't know what I was thinking before, and sometimes my teen self just loved something for no clear reason that my adult self can fully grasp.
Thanks for your reply, Ferge (can I call you Ferge?). Birdman might be my favorite Oscar winner of the past decade, though I didn’t see it through the lens of mental illness, but rather through more obvious themes around mid-life crisis and personal and spiritual redemption.

I can relate to your reasons for up and down grading films over time, as well, and for trying to keep an open mind about what you see.

Glad you saved Seven Samurai, at least for this round (if my memory serves, sol is rather dogged about what he wants to eliminate, even if it means wasting chances to eliminate other films because of that). Seven Samurai just might be my favorite Western, and at the very least I like it better than the Westerns listed in the TSPDT top 100.
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#175

Post by cinewest »

@Onderhond,

I wouldn’t say I limit my reading about film to the reputed classics. Far from it.
That said, the film historian in me is interested in why film scholars, respected critics, and filmmakers prize what they do, and believe there is something worthwhile in knowing what that is.
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#176

Post by jeff_v »

My cut is Blowup. There's better Antonioni both on and off the list --this one feels more like a 'you had to be there' sort of film to really be blown away by.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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#177

Post by jeff_v »

re: cinewest's question

There's definitely films I can appreciate (more or less) on a formal or intellectual level after reading someone's critique or thoughts, but it's pretty rare that it alters my emotional response. It's more likely I would need to watch the film again and re-experience it to re-evaluate it in that way.
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#178

Post by Obgeoff »

My turn to choose Viaggio in Italia. Primarily for the ending which feels unearned to me. Again, we're at a stage where there are no bad films left for me. Definitely worthy of a revisit for me - when I watched it, Rossellini was just neo-realism - the Antonioniesque film was alienating to my expectations.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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#179

Post by Coryn »

Loads of Italian movies in the Top 100. Most of my unseen ones are Italian as well.
I saved Latin, what did you ever do ?
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cinewest
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#180

Post by cinewest »

jeff_v wrote: February 13th, 2021, 7:33 pm re: cinewest's question

There's definitely films I can appreciate (more or less) on a formal or intellectual level after reading someone's critique or thoughts, but it's pretty rare that it alters my emotional response. It's more likely I would need to watch the film again and re-experience it to re-evaluate it in that way.
I get what you are saying, here, but then I think rewatches of films we may not have “gotten” can lead to some amazing rediscoveries, even when we haven’t read anything about them, but because we have somehow been able to open to them in a way that we were unable to before.
Actually some of my very favorite films didn’t start out that way, but became so upon a second watch, once I was able to shift something in myself.
As someone who has travelled quite a bit in the world, and also lived in 3 countries not my own, I liken certain films to the experience of spending time abroad, and expanding one’s own borders as the experience becomes part of you
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#181

Post by cinewest »

Coryn wrote: February 13th, 2021, 9:24 pm Loads of Italian movies in the Top 100. Most of my unseen ones are Italian as well.
As well it seems many of the ones people don’t like as much. I wonder why?
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#182

Post by blocho »

I cut Tokyo Story before, so I will again.

remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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#183

Post by cinewest »

blocho wrote: February 14th, 2021, 2:39 am I cut Tokyo Story before, so I will again.

remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
Wow, six out of the tsp top 10 under repeated attack in the early stages of the game.
Maybe you have to reach 40 or 50 to appreciate a film like Tokyo Story
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#184

Post by cinewest »

blocho wrote: February 14th, 2021, 2:39 am I cut Tokyo Story before, so I will again.

remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
Wow, six out of the tsp top 10 under repeated attack in the early stages of the game, especially those strange films not made in English. Why can’t filmmakers just stick to the tried and true formulas?
As for Tokyo Story, Maybe you have to reach 40 or 50 to appreciate it
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#185

Post by sol »

I know you're just stirring the pot, but 51 out of the TSP Top 100 films are in a language other than English and 20 of the 37 films cut so far have been for films in the English language, so statistically speaking, English language cinema should actually be performing better than it is at the moment. :ermm:
Former IMDb message boards user // iCM | IMDb | Letterboxd | My top 750 films // Long live the new flesh!
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#186

Post by Onderhond »

Let's go for a film I watched not so long ago. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is one of Ford's first films, and that's a pretty low bar to start with. The review I wrote:

A Ford western that tries to break out of its typical genre mold. Instead of focusing on tough guys, gun fights and robberies, Ford adds a more historical/political angle to the film. At least that's what he tries to do, because many of the typical western elements are still present, and they don't mix very well with the more serious subject. Everyone is a walking cliché, down to the most insignificant character. From the upright, studious and stiff James Stewart and boorish, macho John Wayne, to the villainous and crude Lee Marvin, none of them manage to bring any kind of humanity to their performance. The whole cast is just terrible across the board. The first hour it's almost like watching a farce, with simplistic comedy and crummy banter. The second hour tries to squeeze in the shift from the Wild West to a more democratic society, but everything is so unsubtle and on the nose that you have to wonder why Ford even bothered. Hopelessly outdated.

remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
cinewest wrote: February 13th, 2021, 1:01 pm I wouldn’t say I limit my reading about film to the reputed classics. Far from it.
That said, the film historian in me is interested in why film scholars, respected critics, and filmmakers prize what they do, and believe there is something worthwhile in knowing what that is.
Oh, I agree. But more for what it says about other people than for the actual films :)
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#187

Post by cinewest »

Onderhond wrote: February 14th, 2021, 9:01 am Let's go for a film I watched not so long ago. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance is one of Ford's first films, and that's a pretty low bar to start with. The review I wrote:

A Ford western that tries to break out of its typical genre mold. Instead of focusing on tough guys, gun fights and robberies, Ford adds a more historical/political angle to the film. At least that's what he tries to do, because many of the typical western elements are still present, and they don't mix very well with the more serious subject. Everyone is a walking cliché, down to the most insignificant character. From the upright, studious and stiff James Stewart and boorish, macho John Wayne, to the villainous and crude Lee Marvin, none of them manage to bring any kind of humanity to their performance. The whole cast is just terrible across the board. The first hour it's almost like watching a farce, with simplistic comedy and crummy banter. The second hour tries to squeeze in the shift from the Wild West to a more democratic society, but everything is so unsubtle and on the nose that you have to wonder why Ford even bothered. Hopelessly outdated.

remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
cinewest wrote: February 13th, 2021, 1:01 pm I wouldn’t say I limit my reading about film to the reputed classics. Far from it.
That said, the film historian in me is interested in why film scholars, respected critics, and filmmakers prize what they do, and believe there is something worthwhile in knowing what that is.
Oh, I agree. But more for what it says about other people than for the actual films :)
Well, we’ve arrived at a film we can agree on. I actually like the Western genre, but the ones in the top 100, here are not among my favorites.
Sergio Leone is another director with far too much cache in my opinion.
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#188

Post by cinewest »

sol wrote: February 14th, 2021, 6:31 am I know you're just stirring the pot, but 51 out of the TSP Top 100 films are in a language other than English and 20 of the 37 films cut so far have been for films in the English language, so statistically speaking, English language cinema should actually be performing better than it is at the moment. :ermm:
I actually think that the TSP list is more balanced than many others I’ve seen when it comes to including films that are not in English, though I find some of their English titles overly redundant.
Like almost all other historical lists, probably what bothers me most is how weighted towards the past it is, though films made in the last 35 years have finally started to climb

Though it doesn’t sound correct, I’ll assume that you count of the films that have been eliminated is on the money... so what’s your next cut? You’ll have a chance to take a stab at something else besides Seven Samurai at least for the next round, given the rules of the game.
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#189

Post by perceval »

Seeing both It's a wonderful life and another film I considered being cut makes decision easier. Or no, still not easy :mw_confused:

Nah it has to be Pulp Fiction. Feels right to continue to cut another film grounded on pastiche.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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#190

Post by sol »

cinewest wrote: February 14th, 2021, 9:34 am I’ll assume that you count of the films that have been eliminated is on the money... so what’s your next cut? You’ll have a chance to take a stab at something else besides Seven Samurai at least for the next round, given the rules of the game.
Believe it or not, there are plenty of films left on the list that are merely 'above average' in my books; it is really up to the other players whether they let me have a stab at them or whether they are content to have me play out the whole game just cutting the same two films. To wit:

Let's keep it simple. I'm cutting The Rules of the Game again. There's at least three Renoir films that I would rather have than this one in the list.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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#191

Post by RolandKirkSunglasses »

My next cut is a film I'm pretty indifferent towards,Battleship Potemkin. I saw it a long time ago and haven't felt any desire to rewatch it, Eisenstein has made better films and there's other Soviet silents I prefer like "Man with a Movie Camera".
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
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cinewest
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#192

Post by cinewest »

sol wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:18 am
cinewest wrote: February 14th, 2021, 9:34 am I’ll assume that you count of the films that have been eliminated is on the money... so what’s your next cut? You’ll have a chance to take a stab at something else besides Seven Samurai at least for the next round, given the rules of the game.
Believe it or not, there are plenty of films left on the list that are merely 'above average' in my books; it is really up to the other players whether they let me have a stab at them or whether they are content to have me play out the whole game just cutting the same two films. To wit:

Let's keep it simple. I'm cutting The Rules of the Game again. There's at least three Renoir films that I would rather have than this one in the list.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
Seems to me that you’re playing yourself out of the action by obsessing over getting rid of two very good films, while numerous lesser ones continue to remain unscathed
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#193

Post by sol »

cinewest wrote: February 14th, 2021, 11:39 am Seems to me that you’re playing yourself out of the action by obsessing over getting rid of two very good films, while numerous lesser ones continue to remain unscathed
Nah, I don't think so. Both of the films that I have tried to cut are movies that I consider to be decent but which I feel that others tend to overestimate. While I acknowledge that they both have solid fanbases, I don't consider either film to be "very good" and I don't think I have ever tried to remove any films that I consider to be "very good" in one of these rankdown games -- except maybe in the final open voting round of the AFI list rankdown game.
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#194

Post by cinewest »

perceval wrote: February 14th, 2021, 10:13 am Seeing both It's a wonderful life and another film I considered being cut makes decision easier. Or no, still not easy :mw_confused:

Nah it has to be Pulp Fiction. Feels right to continue to cut another film grounded on pastiche.
remaining films
1 Citizen Kane
2 Vertigo
4 La règle du jeu
5 Tôkyô monogatari
6 8½
7 The Godfather
8 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans
10 Shichinin no samurai
11 Apocalypse Now
12 Singin' in the Rain
13 Ladri di biciclette
14 Bronenosets Potemkin
15 Taxi Driver
17 L'Atalante
18 La passion de Jeanne d'Arc
19 Persona
21 Rashômon
22 Psycho
24 Les quatre cents coups
28 Some Like It Hot
29 Zerkalo
30 La dolce vita
31 Touch of Evil
33 Sunset Blvd.
34 Au hasard Balthazar
35 Ordet
36 Casablanca
37 L'avventura
38 Blade Runner
39 The General
40 Le mépris
41 Rear Window
42 Faa young nin wa
43 The Night of the Hunter
44 La grande illusion
45 Ugetsu monogatari
46 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
47 The Third Man
50 Mulholland Dr.
52 Stalker
53 Fanny och Alexander
55 Chinatown
56 M - Eine Stadt sucht einen Mörder
58 North by Northwest
60 Metropolis
61 Smultronstället
64 Pulp Fiction
66 Viridiana
71 Shoah
72 Il gattopardo
73 Det sjunde inseglet
74 Viaggio in Italia
75 La battaglia di Algeri
76 The Gold Rush
78 The Magnificent Ambersons
80 Banshun
81 Nema-ye Nazdik
82 Jules et Jim
85 Jeanne Dielman, 23, quai du commerce, 1080 Bruxelles
89 Blue Velvet
91 Sanshô dayû
92 Un condamné à mort s'est échappé ou Le vent souffle où il veut
93 The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
95 A Woman Under the Influence
97 Greed
98 Blowup
99 L'année dernière à Marienbad
100 To Be or Not to Be
Selection Order
1. Coryn - 1 veto remaining
2. beasterne - 1 veto remaining
3. Fergenaprido - 0 vetoes remaining
4. OldAle1 - 1 veto remaining
5. brokenface - 2 vetoes remaining
6. jeff_v - 2 vetoes remaining
7. Obgeoff - 1 veto remaining
8. blocho - 2 vetoes remaining
9. Onderhond - 2 vetoes remaining
10. perceval - 1 veto remaining
11. sol - 2 vetoes remaining
12. RolandKirkSunglasses - 1 veto remaining
13. toromash - 2 vetoes remaining
Not sure if I would call Sergio Leone’s films “pastiche,” but in various ways his movies remind me of Tarantino, though they seem to take themselves more seriously, which may or may not be a good thing.
Just watched Once Upon A Time in The West again recently, and it struck me as a lot less imaginative and cartoonish the second time around, and more drenched in heavy handed B-movie lore
Last edited by cinewest on February 14th, 2021, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#195

Post by cinewest »

sol wrote: February 14th, 2021, 11:48 am
cinewest wrote: February 14th, 2021, 11:39 am Seems to me that you’re playing yourself out of the action by obsessing over getting rid of two very good films, while numerous lesser ones continue to remain unscathed
Nah, I don't think so. Both of the films that I have tried to cut are movies that I consider to be decent but which I feel that others tend to overestimate. While I acknowledge that they both have solid fanbases, I don't consider either film to be "very good" and I don't think I have ever tried to remove any films that I consider to be "very good" in one of these rankdown games -- except maybe in the final open voting round of the AFI list rankdown game.
Your entitled to your opinion, of course, though you must realize that it flies in the face of the opinions of thousands who contributed to the tsp list, and Seven Samurai is an personal favorite of mine.

That said, like others here, my own opinions about movies often fly in the face of 1000’s, too.

Rio Bravo probably would have been my first cut, and I don’t think it comes anywhere near Seven Samurai, which is one of Kurosawa’s masterpieces (and I love him as a director, especially from his generation of filmmakers).

As for films in the top ten that would go first for me, beyond The Searchers (which would be first without a doubt), I would probably cut Vertigo next, though I will acknowledge that it is from Hitchcock’s golden period as a director (from the mid 50’s through the early 60’s). I just happen to prefer others of his from that period and don’t think he is as great as some filmmakers who came after him.
Last edited by cinewest on February 14th, 2021, 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#196

Post by sol »

cinewest wrote: February 14th, 2021, 12:08 pm like others here, my own opinions about movies often fly in the face of 1000’s, as well
Yeah, it's just the nature of the game. These are the 100 most critically acclaimed films of all-time, so no matter what film somebody cuts, it will be a movie that thousands out there consider to be very great.

I would prefer to do something less canonical next time. Maybe a rankdown of the Inflation-Adjusted Box Office Top 100 or something.

Oh, and I love Kurosawa too, by the way. :thumbsup: Just not all of his films. :)
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#197

Post by toromash »

Had to check my IMDB this time, so i don't make the wrong cut again. Was thinking about either the gold rush or singing in the rain? Because onderhond dislike Chaplin, i think the right cut would be Singing in the Rain.

I don't find these films about films very interesting (unless its Birdman of course). It's also a musical, which is my least preferred genre. I'm almost certain i made the same cut in a previous game with the same justification, because these words give me some deja vu. The choreography was nice, but i didn't like the songs at all, so it just made me unfocused in some scenes, and when most of it is singing, then it ends up being an alright experience. Some few instances where i laughed, and therefore overall a decent film.
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#198

Post by Onderhond »

toromash wrote: February 14th, 2021, 12:53 pm Because onderhond dislike Chaplin, i think the right cut would be Singing in the Rain.
The problem is that Onderhond dislikes so many films here, he likes to go for a bit of variety, so me cutting two Chaplins sounds a bit unlikely :)
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#199

Post by perceval »

Feel like if I veto Viaggo in Italia again brokenface will perhaps cut it next round. I think it make more sense to use my second veto on La règle du jeu.

Let's do it. Don't care that I am running out of veto's, these are the films I decided to fight for.
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#200

Post by beasterne »

sol wrote: February 14th, 2021, 12:52 pmYeah, it's just the nature of the game. These are the 100 most critically acclaimed films of all-time, so no matter what film somebody cuts, it will be a movie that thousands out there consider to be very great.

I would prefer to do something less canonical next time. Maybe a rankdown of the Inflation-Adjusted Box Office Top 100 or something.
Good idea!

toromash has made the last cut of Round 4, and there’s already been one veto played—welcome back to The Rules of the Game!

We’ll have our normal 24 hour break before we start the next round. Use your vetoes if you’ve got them!
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