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500 <400 2020 RESULTS! Sponsored by Torgo

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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TalkingElvish
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Re: 500 <400 2020 RESULTS!

#961

Post by TalkingElvish » October 16th, 2020, 3:48 am

OldAle1 wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 8:55 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 8:30 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 1:54 pm
Narcissistic yes - elitist and snobbish, I'm not so sure. He came from humble beginnings and I don't think he ever lost sight of that, and his life was more the bohemian Brooklyn type than the Woody Allen upper-East-side variety; there's a big difference between those who hang around and promote other artists - real artists who are not in it mostly for the money - and the poseurs and comfortable, wealthy middlebrow folks who want to be accepted by "the Academy", whatever that may be. I don't think Mekas ever pretended to be anything he wasn't. I DO think he made the same mistake (in interviews and perhaps in his writings, very little of which I've read) of assuming that a larger number of people might follow what he and Kenneth Anger and Brakhage and others were doing; Rosenbaum does this over and over as well, assuming that large masses of people actually would like difficult/avant garde/abstract/foreign art if only they got the proper exposure and if only the media gave it equal time, and capitalism didn't destroy everything. I just don't see that; virtually 100% of all living people have grown up believing that film=narrative or, very occasionally, straightforward documentation, and getting people from Star Wars to Mekas - my own journey and that of plenty of people on this forum - is very difficult and very, very, very few people want to tread that path. Not because it's hard or weird but because they just don't care, they're satisfied with what they already watch/hear/read/etc. Why try the gourmet burger, or the veggie burger, if I like McDonalds? So that's where these guys are being elitist - not so much in damning the Michael Bays of this world or their fans, but in believing that art is important enough to a large enough number of people that it could and should matter more than it does. Maybe someday, in a more enlightened society, but we're sure nowhere near that in America.
I never got the sense of elitism or snobbishness or even narcissism from the Mekas films I've seen, but maybe those are the more accessible ones. This write-up, however, reeks of all three and I'm not clear if this is your opinion or if you're paraphrasing the opinions of others. It's very condescending to posit that difficult/avant garde/abstract/foreign art is inherently better than narrative or other film genres/movements and assuming that those who do not like/get/enjoy those films are unenlightened. The idea that certain types of art/film are inherently better than others infuriates me, and I reject it as categorically false. Different folks appreciate different types of art/film, and I don't understand why people feel the need to constantly disparage those whose taste is different from one's own.
I thought I was pretty clear but I guess not - no, I personally don't see him as (particularly) elitist or snobbish, and only narcissistic in the sense that he's focusing on himself - he isn't saying he's better than other people, look at me because I'm the coolest. No what I'm getting at is that he, Rosenbaum, and some others seem to think that avant-garde and difficult films would be much more popular if only people knew about them - Rosenbaum does this all the time. And my own experience is that no, very few people would ever be interested in this stuff. I'm with you - I don't believe that more difficult or more obscure or non-narrative=better - and I don't know that Rosenbaum, or Mekas, or even Godard would say so, it's just that they think the reasons why people don't like it/aren't interested in it have more to do with commerce/capitalism/marketing than with the basic human impulse to stick to the familiar, the known, the comforting. Most people don't experience art as a way to better understand the human condition or to deeply probe into challenging spaces - they experience it as simple enjoyment after a hard day or work or school, or as a fun hobby. And I don't think very many people want to go into it to the depth that many of us do, and very little would get them to do so - and that's fine, and we should neither be upset that they don't want to watch Mekas or Godard or Brakhage, or that the world doesn't promote such work the way it promotes Spielberg. Even in countries which were or are less market-driven than America the majority of people don't want to be challenged all the time; I doubt most Russians were eagerly awaiting the next Tarkovsky film. One of my favorite moments in Makhmalbaf's A Moment of Innocence is when he's trying to talk about Iranian cinema with some ordinary citizen, and the guy just wants to talk about Kirk Douglas. That's the reality of the world.

And I think it's the very, very rare individual that takes an intellectual approach to everything in life - I'm sure many of us have "elite" film tastes but watch dumb TV or read Harry Potter (me!) or eat fast food or have Old Navy clothing tastes. So being uber-snobbish about everything is really just telling everybody that you've decided to limit yourself and stay in an ivory tower all the time. And I think most people that do that are probably internet nerds living in basements, not successful filmmakers or critics or painters or writers.
Love the eloquence of your response here OldAle1, some really good arguments. I always find it interesting how these outre ideas eventually creep into the mainstream in some diluted form or other.

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#962

Post by TalkingElvish » October 16th, 2020, 3:53 am

Also, surprised not to see my number 1, David Lean's The Passionate Friends crack the list, especially since RogerTheMovieManiac suggested it as a film to watch before the poll. Given how many people adore Lean's Brief Encounter, it seems odd that this extremely similar film is so under-seen.

My number 2, Warwick Thornton's Sweet Country is another I'd have expected to see make the grade given he keeps being given awards for his work. His previous film, Samson and Delilah seems very well-known given it's on 392 checks, much better known than fellow Australian director Rolf de Heer, who managed two films in this list.

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#963

Post by Onderhond » October 16th, 2020, 4:55 am

Torgo wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 12:14 am
Poor Onderhond. Even his #4-vote couldn't save Herutâ in a year with so much new activity.
We need more youngsters.

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#964

Post by cinewest » October 16th, 2020, 5:19 am

AdamH wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 8:39 pm
I'd be interested in hearing the story behind why people voted for their top films and if it was because of the forum.

My #1 film for this poll is Kradetzat na praskovi. I watched it in October 2012 because a Bulgarian girl at uni recommended it to me. It then first appeared in 500<400 in September 2013 but I'm not sure how it got popular on here. It's never been in the top 100 and has actually fallen recently.
Interesting followup question, Adam.

Looking at my own top 10-12, I notice that I came upon nearly all at film festival screenings in San Francisco or Mill Valley (to the north of SF). Only half have captured enough interest to make the top 500, here (3 made it this time for the first time). Of the two pre 1990 films in this group, I already mentioned seeing Days and Nights in the Forest at a special tribute to Ray, and I saw Siberiada (1979) at a special screening. All were seen for the first time on the big screen where I have found the impact of a film to be greatest.

Some of those in my top 12 that didn't make the top 500 are:

My #1, Cabeza de Vaca (Mexico, 1991) about the conquest of the Americas, which I found as amazing and powerful as films like Aguirre Wrath of God, and Embrace of the Serpent

My #4 Savrseni krug (Kosovo, 1997)- Possibly the most powerful war film involving children that I have ever seen.

My #9 Frozen (India, 2007)- Spectacular B&W cinematography with the feel of an Iranian film, and a story with a twist.

My #12 Enlightenment Guaranteed (Dorris Dorrie, Germany, 1999)- A hilarious film about two very different brothers who travel to and get lost in Tokyo that I thought was much better than Sofia Coppola's Japanese odyssey. I actually have 3 Dorris Dorrie films on my list of 200, which has no more than 3 by any other filmmaker, yet she seems undiscovered, here.

My #13 Wind Journeys (Guerra, 2009)- folks may have discovered this filmmaker, but this outstanding fable about the journey to return a magical instrument needs more exposure.

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#965

Post by ckfilm88 » October 16th, 2020, 6:19 am

Thank you PeacefulAnarchy for all of your hard work on this. It has been great getting to be a part of the process this year.

I'm ecstatic to see An Elephant Sitting Still making the list (my #1). I was worried once the countdown got below 200 that it wouldn't make it. I have a feeling it may pass 400 checks over the next year, but I'm glad it got to be on the list at some point. :D

With my first year I'm happy to contribute to getting James White back onto the list and Indignation making it for the first time! Patti Cake$, Assassination Nation, and Hearts Beat Loud making the list is awesome even though they do have their haters. :lol: I think these films could potentially serve as a gateway for some people who may like more "commercial" cinema seeking out some more films on 500 <400. The same could be said for Hollywood Shuffle which was also on my list.

In regards to my Top 10, 8/10 were indie films that came out over the last 10 years that I feel haven't gotten the audience I think they deserve (yet). The other two, Scandal Sheet and Blood and Sand, were films I caught on TCM. I may have sought out Scandal Sheet because it was on the 500 <400, but I don't remember.

I am disappointed to see no Douglas Sirk films make the list. I thought A Scandal in Paris or Lured might have had a shot. Maybe next year. :D

I look forward to checking out the others on the list (I've only seen 21 so far). Huge shoutout to Cippenham for finding a link to Carriage to Vienna. I've wanted to see it for quite some time. I had been trying to see The Grey Fox for a long time as well and saw it as soon as I could when they released the restoration earlier this year! :cheers:

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#966

Post by Onderhond » October 16th, 2020, 6:34 am

ckfilm88 wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 6:19 am
Patti Cake$, Assassination Nation, and Hearts Beat Loud making the list is awesome even though they do have their haters. :lol: I think these films could potentially serve as a gateway for some people who may like more "commercial" cinema seeking out some more films on 500 <400.
I honestly doubt it, there's a really big jump/disconnect between those films and the majority of films featured on the 500<400. But hopefully it draws some new participants to the list, which could lead to some overall rejuvenation.

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#967

Post by joachimt » October 16th, 2020, 6:39 am

Why I watched my top 10 in the first place and where they ended up in our list:

1. Rapture (#4): PdA promoted it on this forum and it seemed awesome.
2. Akai tenshi AKA Red Angel (#6): It's on the Rosenbaum list.
3. Tsuma wa kokuhaku suru AKA A Wife Confesses (#11): It's on the Rosenbaum list.
Funny fact: I watched #2 and #3 only one week (!) apart in 2014.
4. Drak sa vracia AKA The Return of Dragon (#94): It was a film of the week.
5. Swiadectwo urodzenia AKA Birth Certificate (#7): It's on the Unesco list.
6. Mujô AKA This Transient Life (#42): It was a film of the week.
7. Wrony AKA The Crows (#173): It's an official check shorter than 70 min.
8. Lesnaya pesnya. Mavka AKA A Story of the Forest: Mavka (not in 500<400): It was in World Cup Season 2.
9. Bao gio cho den tháng Muoi AKA When the Tenth Month Comes (#192): It was in World Cup Season 1.
10. Szindbád (#87): It's on the Unesco list.

Pretty boring reasons, right? :P
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#970

Post by ckfilm88 » October 16th, 2020, 6:48 am

Onderhond wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 6:34 am
ckfilm88 wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 6:19 am
Patti Cake$, Assassination Nation, and Hearts Beat Loud making the list is awesome even though they do have their haters. :lol: I think these films could potentially serve as a gateway for some people who may like more "commercial" cinema seeking out some more films on 500 <400.
I honestly doubt it, there's a really big jump/disconnect between those films and the majority of films featured on the 500<400. But hopefully it draws some new participants to the list, which could lead to some overall rejuvenation.
Yeah, you're probably right. I'm probably dreaming too much. :lol: Getting new participants would definitely be cool.

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#971

Post by joachimt » October 16th, 2020, 6:49 am

Although I lost 24 checks on this list, I gained 12 checks overall, because I've seen 13 of the losing titles and 25 of the gaining titles.
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#973

Post by tommy_leazaq » October 16th, 2020, 7:41 am

Fifth Seal, my #1 film, blown my mind when I first watched it for WC, and thus began my sincere following of WC films up until early this season. I guess mjf was the one who nominated the film. I'm forever indebted to him for introducing this gem of a film.

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#974

Post by cinephage » October 16th, 2020, 8:55 am

Where does my top 10 vote come from :

01. Die andere Heimat - Chronik einer Sehnsucht - I saw it in a theatre, but that's because, thanks to the forum, I had watched the first Heimat miniseries, so there is a connection with this place (154 Checks)
02. Le septième juré - Saw it independently from the forum, as a french underestimated classic. I talked about it on this forum, with others, and was glad to see it caught on some people. Lautner hasn't always been a great director, but this is one of his best movies. Bernard Blier is a great actor, but his carreer is full of under average movies. This is one of his best performances... (70 Checks)
03. Dance me to my Song - Saw it a the Cannes Film Festival. It left me with a strong impression. I leave it here as I've seen many members of the forum enjoy Rolf de Heer and his movies, so it's just a question of time before they give a look at this one... (12 Checks)
04. Celine - Saw it thanks to this forum, but Brisseau was a favorite director of mine before that, so I was certain to enjoy it. (81 Checks)
05. Omocha - Saw it at the french Cinematheque in a Fukasaku retrospective. This is so different from his regular work I keep hoping some people here will notice it and enjoy it. This is Fukasaku's most personal film, in my opinion... (17 Checks)
06. Le souper - Saw it on the theatre, loved it. But I feel it is not available with subtitles, so I'm not sure it will attract attention... (23 Checks)
07. Intimní osvetlení - Saw it during a run at the French Cinematheque, loved it so much !! I tried to push it for the Doubling the Canon initiative, but it didn't do well there... (317 Checks)
08. L'autre - Saw it on the theatre, but like le souper, I don't think subtitles are available, so my support may be wasted here... (8 Checks)
09. Dainah la métisse - Saw it on a dvd as soon as it was available in France. It's a great movie, Gremillon needs more light. (65 Checks)
10. L'affaire Maurizius - Same as dainah la metisse, except it hasn't had the same attention here. Maybe it will change someday. (13 Checks)

So I've seen only 1 film in my top 10 because of this forum, and 1 more indirectly. But I must say that approximately 60 % of the films I watch from the 500<400 list I watch thanks to the fact they are on this list, some of which I have never heard of before. I only saw 24 of such films this year, as usual, because these films may be hard to come by, and most of them need a certain level of attention, which I can't provide after a full day of work...

But I try to include more titles in my list that I have seen independantly from the forum than the other way around, as this is meant to shed some light on hidden gems, not to share movies that are consensual, even in this micro-world of cinephiles. As I usually go to Cinematheques and Festivals, and have access to underseen (here) french cinema, I try to promote the best of what I discover.

That's why 52 of my votes made it into the list, the other 248 are still banging at the door, hoping to be seen some day...

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#975

Post by Fergenaprido » October 16th, 2020, 9:52 am

prodigalgodson wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 1:37 am
OldAle1 wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 8:55 pm
Fergenaprido wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 8:30 pm

I never got the sense of elitism or snobbishness or even narcissism from the Mekas films I've seen, but maybe those are the more accessible ones. This write-up, however, reeks of all three and I'm not clear if this is your opinion or if you're paraphrasing the opinions of others. It's very condescending to posit that difficult/avant garde/abstract/foreign art is inherently better than narrative or other film genres/movements and assuming that those who do not like/get/enjoy those films are unenlightened. The idea that certain types of art/film are inherently better than others infuriates me, and I reject it as categorically false. Different folks appreciate different types of art/film, and I don't understand why people feel the need to constantly disparage those whose taste is different from one's own.
I thought I was pretty clear but I guess not
I think your post was very clear, empathetic, and on point Ale, I don't understand Ferg's outrage. It's not like you're saying people shouldn't enjoy McDonalds or calling it inherently inferior. Then again if there were equally affordable gourmet burgers and people actually knew about them I don't think it's unreasonable to assume more people would be loving those than are now.
I'm sure many of us have "elite" film tastes but watch dumb TV or read Harry Potter (me!) or eat fast food or have Old Navy clothing tastes. So being uber-snobbish about everything is really just telling everybody that you've decided to limit yourself and stay in an ivory tower all the time. And I think most people that do that are probably internet nerds living in basements, not successful filmmakers or critics or painters or writers.
Also never fails to amuse me how often a guy whose idea of a perfect evening is a cold beer and a Buffy marathon has been accused of snobbery over the years. As for keeping it thorough, me I'll take my home-cooked mie goreng and go read my George Eliot in peace through the Prada shades I bought busting my ass as a server somewhere far from the haters (unless I'm in the mood for Fatburger and King of the Hill) :p
OldAle1 wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 8:55 pm
I thought I was pretty clear but I guess not - no, I personally don't see him as (particularly) elitist or snobbish, and only narcissistic in the sense that he's focusing on himself - he isn't saying he's better than other people, look at me because I'm the coolest. No what I'm getting at is that he, Rosenbaum, and some others seem to think that avant-garde and difficult films would be much more popular if only people knew about them - Rosenbaum does this all the time. And my own experience is that no, very few people would ever be interested in this stuff. I'm with you - I don't believe that more difficult or more obscure or non-narrative=better - and I don't know that Rosenbaum, or Mekas, or even Godard would say so, it's just that they think the reasons why people don't like it/aren't interested in it have more to do with commerce/capitalism/marketing than with the basic human impulse to stick to the familiar, the known, the comforting. Most people don't experience art as a way to better understand the human condition or to deeply probe into challenging spaces - they experience it as simple enjoyment after a hard day or work or school, or as a fun hobby. And I don't think very many people want to go into it to the depth that many of us do, and very little would get them to do so - and that's fine, and we should neither be upset that they don't want to watch Mekas or Godard or Brakhage, or that the world doesn't promote such work the way it promotes Spielberg. Even in countries which were or are less market-driven than America the majority of people don't want to be challenged all the time; I doubt most Russians were eagerly awaiting the next Tarkovsky film. One of my favorite moments in Makhmalbaf's A Moment of Innocence is when he's trying to talk about Iranian cinema with some ordinary citizen, and the guy just wants to talk about Kirk Douglas. That's the reality of the world.

And I think it's the very, very rare individual that takes an intellectual approach to everything in life - I'm sure many of us have "elite" film tastes but watch dumb TV or read Harry Potter (me!) or eat fast food or have Old Navy clothing tastes. So being uber-snobbish about everything is really just telling everybody that you've decided to limit yourself and stay in an ivory tower all the time. And I think most people that do that are probably internet nerds living in basements, not successful filmmakers or critics or painters or writers.
Firstly, thank you Ale for taking the time to explain more clearly what you were saying. I understand better your point, but parts still don't jive with me.

Prodigal, I don't know if I would classify my post as outrage (okay, I did use "infuriates", so may outrage is correct :lol: ), but I was definitely not clear on what Ale's messaging was, and I disagree with your interpretation of his words. I absolutely think that he was calling McDonalds inferior to gourmet burgers (which isn't a problem; it's probably true - that's why they're called gourmet burgers). My disdain/disbelief was that the non-narrative films were considered the gourmet of cinema without explanation, as though it was a well-understood fact or decree passed down from on high.

Ale, you say you agree with me that non-narrative≠better (which is what I've generally thought your position to me), but then go on to make a seemingly opposite argument. Why is art that facilitates understanding the human condition or probing into challenging spaces inherently better than art that solely entertains? Why can't a film be both entertaining and challenging? I feel like I'm missing a point you consider obvious here.

Maybe if I expand more on my opinion, it will help. I've figured out that the biggest factor of me liking a film is whether or not it engages me. A film can be entertaining, challenging, or educational, but all three are forms of engagement that cause me to stick to the film and watch it through the end, and often think and reflect about it afterwards. I don't classify films in these three categories (though doing so kind of sounds like a fun exercise), and many films engage me in more than one facet. I don't think that a great educational film is inherently better than a great entertaining film, or vice versa.

So why is a Mekas, or a Godard, or a Brakhage film that challenges you inherently better than a Spielberg film that entertains you? This is the part I don't understand nor agree with. And to be clear, I'm not calling you a snob or assuming that what's been written above reflects your own personal opinions, I'm just trying to understand what point you're trying to make. And I think that your uber-snobbish - ivory tower sentence is spot on. :thumbsup:

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#976

Post by Onderhond » October 16th, 2020, 10:23 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 9:52 am
Maybe if I expand more on my opinion, it will help. I've figured out that the biggest factor of me liking a film is whether or not it engages me. A film can be entertaining, challenging, or educational, but all three are forms of engagement that cause me to stick to the film and watch it through the end, and often think and reflect about it afterwards. I don't classify films in these three categories (though doing so kind of sounds like a fun exercise), and many films engage me in more than one facet. I don't think that a great educational film is inherently better than a great entertaining film, or vice versa.
I'm not sure if there's much of a difference between "liking" and "engaging" in the way you're using both words here, but I definitely agree with the gist of this paragraph.

I will also say that film aren't inherently challenging or educational. We all react and find different things in films, so when one film might open the eyes of someone and be a life-changing revelation, someone else might be left completely cold by the that same film. The only challenging part of many non-narrative films is to keep on watching them when they don't click, as there's really not much there to occupy yourself with. It's much easier to do that with narrative cinema, even when they story/characters aren't interesting. I wouldn't really call that a perk of non-narrative cinema though.

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#977

Post by Lammetje » October 16th, 2020, 10:27 am

Movies seen: 49/500 (same as right before yesterday's update, and my highest "score" to date)
Movies I voted for: 17/500 (out of 53 voted for)
Highest movie unseen: Shura (#3)
Highest movie I voted for: Doro no kawa (#2)
Highest movie seen I didn't vote for: Kocár do Vídne (#1)
Highest favorite: Scandal Sheet (#78)
Highest dislike: no dislikes
Position of my #1 (Scandal Sheet): #78

My top 10 explained:

1. Scandal Sheet (1952) - Noir-vember '15
2. The Shooting of Dan McGoo (1945) - because Droopy is in it
3. Adelborsten (2014) - saw it on TV once
4. Kajaki (2014) - watchlisted because of 1000<400
5. Deputy Droopy (1955) - because Droopy is in it
6. Bluebird (2004) - saw it on TV once
7. U-ri-deul (2016) - watched it during a flight
8. My ne mozhem zhit bez kosmosa (2014) - watchlisted because it looked nice on IMDb
9. Nachts wenn der Teufel kam (1957) - don't remember, possibly watchlisted because of 500<400
10. Point and Shoot (2014) - saw it on TV once

Apparently I have a thing for 2014.
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#978

Post by 72aicm » October 16th, 2020, 11:23 am

cinephage wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 8:55 am
03. Dance me to my Song - Saw it a the Cannes Film Festival. It left me with a strong impression. I leave it here as I've seen many members of the forum enjoy Rolf de Heer and his movies, so it's just a question of time before they give a look at this one... (12 Checks)
Watched it earlier this year because of you. Top tier de Heer for sure.

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#979

Post by cinewest » October 16th, 2020, 11:34 am

beavis wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 9:01 pm
Rengoku eroica (#99)
La vie nouvelle (#500)
Cosmos (still on 0 lists)
Cavalo Dinheiro (#102)
César et Rosalie (still on 0 lists!?!?!?!?)

This is the top5 of my nominations list, only La Vie Nouvelle is a new entry.

I watched 2 of these when they first came out in cinema (at the IFFR actually, they were not wider release movies) and one as soon as it hit bluray (because Cosmos wasn't released in cinema's at all over here). Rengoku Eroica I saw at the mindblowing Yoshida retrospective of the IFFR in 2010, it seems to me this was before his movies were discovered elsewhere/on this forum. Then Cesar et Rosalie, I also watched in cinema(!), the occasion was a retrospective of Yves Montand and Simone Signoret movies. Might have been my first Sautet movie too, amazing discovery. Can't understand why this movie is so overlooked. But no, none are discoveries made through this list or ICM in a broader sense, including this forum.
Sautét is due for further discovery on this board, and I have a copy of Cesar and Rosalie somewhere that I should rewatch. I think I had it on my 500/400 list at one time, but because my memory of it is scant it got replaced by something I have seen more recently.

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#980

Post by peeptoad » October 16th, 2020, 12:43 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
October 6th, 2020, 6:59 pm
#382( – , #382) Suburbia (1983)
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Directed by: Penelope Spheeris
(333.36 Pts, 7 Votes) , Top 1–10–50: 0–1–3
History: 3823828716409401010NA←NA
ICheckMovies: 281 Checks , 26 Favourites , 1 Official list
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Rock & Roll. Good to see this one hold its ground.

On another note I forgot several in my list and they're films I have marked as favorites too (O Sangue, in particular, though that one didn't need my help anyway)...
Thanks for all your work on this most excellent list, PA. :cheers:

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#981

Post by AB537 » October 16th, 2020, 12:54 pm

Movies seen: 51/500 (was 56 before the update)
Movies I voted for: 18/500 (out of 68 voted for - could have justified a couple of others)
Highest movie unseen: Doro no kawa - Muddy River (#2)
Highest movie I voted for: Kocár do Vídne - Carriage to Vienna (#1)
Highest movie seen I didn't vote for: Rapture (#4)
Highest favorite: Kapò (#159)
Position of my #1 (La vérité): #214

My top 10 explained:

1. La vérité (1960) - Bought the Criterion edition because it was directed by Clouzot and sounded interesting
2. La signora di tutti (1934) - Saw it at an Ophuls retrospective in Toronto in 2019
3. Sapphire (1959) - Watched in on Criterion Channel during January's 1000 < 400 challenge
4. Kapò (1960) - Recorded on TCM and watched (I think) during this year's 1000 < 400 challenge
5. The Flame and the Arrow (1950) - Recorded on TCM and watched during August's < 400 challenge
6. Édouard et Caroline (1951) - Saw it at a Becker retrospective in Toronto in 2019
7. Ying - Shadow (2018) - Saw it as a new release in 2019
8. Queimada - Burn! (1969) - Recorded on TCM and watched (I think) late last year
9. Man's Favorite Sport? (1964) - Watched it after it appeared on the TSPDT 1001-2000 list
10. Mil-jeong - The Age of Shadows (2016) - Watched on Netflix during last year's Korean challenge

Clearly I'm missing being able to go to my local theatre - I probably wouldn't have seen 3 of my top 10 on this poll without their programming.

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#982

Post by filmbantha » October 16th, 2020, 1:32 pm

What a great countdown, really enjoyed reading through the thread every day. Thanks for all of your work PA!

Sad to see a few of my favourites drop out of the list (Lawn Dogs, Metro Manila, The Golden Dream) but also excited to see some great new additions (Therese Raquin, Diabel, Kajaki and Himizu).

Movies seen: 164/500 - I was on 162 before the update but watched a few shorts along the way and surprisingly stayed at a pretty consistent number.
Movies I voted for: 70/500 - The 500 <400 always proves a great hit rate for me when looking for new favourites.
Highest movie unseen: Under the Bridge #12
Highest movie I voted for: Carriage to Vienna #1
Highest movie seen I didn't vote for: Muddy River #2
Highest favorite: Carriage to Vienna #1
Position of my #1 Secuestrados - nowhere in sight as usual :lol:

I've really enjoyed reading through everyone's top tens and where/how they discovered the films so here is mine:

1. Secuestrados - I used to often scan through the IMDB top rated horror and this caught my attention. Rented it from lovefilm back in the day and bought it immediately on DVD as soon as I had finished watching. I was incredibly hungover when I watched it and watching this in that state was a very emotionally draining experience - I loved every minute of it though.
2. Happy End - One of the first films I watched due to its high placement on the ICM most favourite list (I think the first was letter never sent and that convinced me that ICM was a site worth sticking with) and one that inspired me to start writing about hidden gems on my blog.
3. The Incident - I think it was mentioned in a Kim Newman book and the description sounded like something I would love. Pleased to see that it picked up more support when I selected it for the WC.
4. Rapt - This was in and out of the bottom of the most favourite lists like a yo-yo for a while which brought it to my attention and it became an instant favourite.
5. Throw away your books, rally in the streets - Another one I discovered whilst working on the most favourite list - I think a pattern is forming here.
6. Carriage to Vienna - Oh look, another film from the most favourite list, what a surprise :lol:
7. El Incidente - Ah, something a bit different, an excellent Mexican Sci-fi film about time loops. I will watch anything involving time loops, time travel etc.. so when this arrived on netflix I was straight on it. Really hope that this will crack the list one day, I feel like there isn't enough sci-fi on the list at the moment. I'm desparate to see the director's next film, parallels, but it appears to still be waiting on distribution after a limited festival release.
8. LFO - I caught this at grimmfest a few years back, this is another inventive sci-fi that I hope could make the list one day. There are lots of films I discovered through grimmfest in my list, which is heavily populated by lesser known horror/sci-fi gems many of which I've seen at grimmfest over the years.
9. Lawn Dogs - I watched Lawn Dogs during a Sam Rockwell phase I went through, I think he's a great actor and always find him worth watching regardless of the film he is in. Lawn Dogs is one of my favourite performances of his.
10. Metro Manila - I really enjoyed Cashback which was the director's previous film so was eager to check out more of his work. Metro Manila is my favourite of his films and I'm saddened to see it drop out of the list this year. There does seem to have been a huge shift towards the lower end of the list due to the return of old voters but I'm not complaining, this just highlights more films for me to explore.

Really looking forward to the 1000 <400 results. Is there a scheduled plan for when the second part of the countdown begins?

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#983

Post by Lonewolf2003 » October 16th, 2020, 1:59 pm

I will play this game too, the reasons I watched my top 10:

1. Dharmaga tongjoguro kan kkadalgun (1989) > watched it as preparation for my nominations for the WC when I was managing South-Korea
2. Herr Arnes pengar (1919) - Watched it for a WC
3. Duo sang (1994) - Watched it for a WC
4. Toda-ke no kyôdai (1941) - cause it was an extra movie on my Tokyo Story blu-ray
5. Jakten (1959) - Watched it for a WC
6. Long Gone (2003) - Watched it long ago, cause it was on tv as special recommendation by someone interesting, don't remember who.
7. Chûgoku no chôjin (1998) - Watched it long ago (2006) when I was getting into Japanese cinema and Miike
8. French Roast (2008) - Watched it cause I like Pixar shorts and it was one our shorts list
9. Zebraman (2004) - Watched it long ago (2006) when I was getting into Japanese cinema and Miike
10. At Berkeley (2013) - Watched it cause it was on our Best of the Current Decade list.

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#984

Post by cinephage » October 16th, 2020, 2:03 pm

72aicm wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 11:23 am
cinephage wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 8:55 am
03. Dance me to my Song - Saw it a the Cannes Film Festival. It left me with a strong impression. I leave it here as I've seen many members of the forum enjoy Rolf de Heer and his movies, so it's just a question of time before they give a look at this one... (12 Checks)
Watched it earlier this year because of you. Top tier de Heer for sure.
If I drove you to give it a try, then I'm glad you enjoyed it. :cheers:
It's unusual, but definitely worth a watch. One of de Heer's talent is to shed light on places/people we don't usually look at...

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#985

Post by TalkingElvish » October 16th, 2020, 2:04 pm

filmbantha wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 1:32 pm
What a great countdown, really enjoyed reading through the thread every day. Thanks for all of your work PA!

Sad to see a few of my favourites drop out of the list (Lawn Dogs, Metro Manila, The Golden Dream) but also excited to see some great new additions (Therese Raquin, Diabel, Kajaki and Himizu).

Movies seen: 164/500 - I was on 162 before the update but watched a few shorts along the way and surprisingly stayed at a pretty consistent number.
Movies I voted for: 70/500 - The 500 <400 always proves a great hit rate for me when looking for new favourites.
Highest movie unseen: Under the Bridge #12
Highest movie I voted for: Carriage to Vienna #1
Highest movie seen I didn't vote for: Muddy River #2
Highest favorite: Carriage to Vienna #1
Position of my #1 Secuestrados - nowhere in sight as usual :lol:

I've really enjoyed reading through everyone's top tens and where/how they discovered the films so here is mine:

1. Secuestrados - I used to often scan through the IMDB top rated horror and this caught my attention. Rented it from lovefilm back in the day and bought it immediately on DVD as soon as I had finished watching. I was incredibly hungover when I watched it and watching this in that state was a very emotionally draining experience - I loved every minute of it though.
2. Happy End - One of the first films I watched due to its high placement on the ICM most favourite list (I think the first was letter never sent and that convinced me that ICM was a site worth sticking with) and one that inspired me to start writing about hidden gems on my blog.
3. The Incident - I think it was mentioned in a Kim Newman book and the description sounded like something I would love. Pleased to see that it picked up more support when I selected it for the WC.
4. Rapt - This was in and out of the bottom of the most favourite lists like a yo-yo for a while which brought it to my attention and it became an instant favourite.
5. Throw away your books, rally in the streets - Another one I discovered whilst working on the most favourite list - I think a pattern is forming here.
6. Carriage to Vienna - Oh look, another film from the most favourite list, what a surprise :lol:
7. El Incidente - Ah, something a bit different, an excellent Mexican Sci-fi film about time loops. I will watch anything involving time loops, time travel etc.. so when this arrived on netflix I was straight on it. Really hope that this will crack the list one day, I feel like there isn't enough sci-fi on the list at the moment. I'm desparate to see the director's next film, parallels, but it appears to still be waiting on distribution after a limited festival release.
8. LFO - I caught this at grimmfest a few years back, this is another inventive sci-fi that I hope could make the list one day. There are lots of films I discovered through grimmfest in my list, which is heavily populated by lesser known horror/sci-fi gems many of which I've seen at grimmfest over the years.
9. Lawn Dogs - I watched Lawn Dogs during a Sam Rockwell phase I went through, I think he's a great actor and always find him worth watching regardless of the film he is in. Lawn Dogs is one of my favourite performances of his.
10. Metro Manila - I really enjoyed Cashback which was the director's previous film so was eager to check out more of his work. Metro Manila is my favourite of his films and I'm saddened to see it drop out of the list this year. There does seem to have been a huge shift towards the lower end of the list due to the return of old voters but I'm not complaining, this just highlights more films for me to explore.

Really looking forward to the 1000 <400 results. Is there a scheduled plan for when the second part of the countdown begins?
Amazing. You must be the other person responsible for Lawn Dogs slipping into the Top 500. It was fun while it lasted! Hopefully it can creep back in next year. I saw it both times it played in Tasmania's only arthouse cinema when it came out. Took a bunch of friends the second time. I got to chat to the director, John Duigan, at a film festival last year and he seemed very surprised and delighted that anyone wanted to talk about it. He was there to talk about The Year My Voice Broke, another acclaimed film I'm surprised hasn't shown up here, especially as it's on two other lists and regularly mentioned as one of the better Australian films. Coincidentally, Rolf de Heer was at the screening too.

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#986

Post by Opio » October 16th, 2020, 2:08 pm

AdamH wrote:
October 15th, 2020, 8:39 pm
I'd be interested in hearing the story behind why people voted for their top films and if it was because of the forum.

My #1 film for this poll is Kradetzat na praskovi. I watched it in October 2012 because a Bulgarian girl at uni recommended it to me. It then first appeared in 500<400 in September 2013 but I'm not sure how it got popular on here. It's never been in the top 100 and has actually fallen recently.
I liked Peach Thief also and it was on my list further down. It's one of several films that I had prior interest in but finding it referenced on this forum pushed me to seek it out. As far as how I found the top films on my list, all of which are from pre-forum days:

1 Baxter (1989): no local cinematheques when I first got into watching films, so back when video rental stores were a thing, I worked my way through the small "Foreign" sections at local Blockbusters/Hollywood Videos. This was one that I put off til I had seen most of the others because the box didn't make it seem that interesting, so I went in with low expectations and was really surprised by its dark psychological portrait of an unusual subject. Probably would slip quite a bit if I rewatched it, but good enough for now.
2 The Field (1990): when the Bravo! TV station was newly added to my cable lineup, they had very different programming from what they show now. They would play a lot of complete films, I think without commercials, as well as more recent short films. Field was one they showed quite a bit, and I thought it was a very powerful story with good performances and music. Glad to see it has a few other fans on this forum.
3 A Christmas Carol (1938): family would play an old VHS copy of this during Christmas, and it's my favorite film of that season. I like most versions of this Dickens story. A sentimental favorite for sure, but I can't help finding the redemption in it moving and uplifting.
4 La religieuse (1966): was interested in Rivette after tracking down Celine and Julie; I think I taped this one off TCM when they were having a French New Wave month. Love the look of this film and the Karina performance.
5 Les rendez-vous d'Anna (1978): another "Foreign" video store selection. Felt very modern and Antonioni-esque to me.
6 Reunion (1989): another Bravo TV find. Powerful story about man remembering his WWII childhood with a surprise finale.
7 Mélo (1986): can't remember where I got this one, but I know I sought it out after reading a glowing capsule review from Rosenbaum. The mysteries of relationships in melodrama.
8 Lebenszeichen (1968): local video store. Great final shot and lines.
9 Through an Open Window (1992): my favorite short to appear on Bravo back in the days. Love odd films in the suburbs.
10 Toccata for Toy Trains (1957): more recently, they did open an art museum in the downtown where I grew up, complete with movie theater. One night they had a selection of Charles and Ray Eames films, and this fun little short really dazzled on the big screen.

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#987

Post by OldAle1 » October 16th, 2020, 2:11 pm

Here's another question - maybe harder to answer for most people, particularly those like me who have been watching films for many decades:

What is the film you watched earliest that's on your list?

The true answer for me is probably one of the many WB cartoons on my list, which I may have first seen as early as the early 70s on TV, but I didn't keep records when I was 5 or 10 and have no way of knowing. About 100 of the films on my list were first seen before I first exported my ratings to icheckmovies in 2009, and many of those were seen when I lived in Chicago in the late 80s or 90s, but my earliest for-sure viewing actually comes earlier. The earliest where I'm reasonably certain of the date/year is the 1980 The Lathe of Heaven (150 checks, 0 Official Lists) which I saw when it was first broadcast in January of that year. 40 years a favorite but little love overall even today....

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#988

Post by mightysparks » October 16th, 2020, 2:19 pm

Movies seen: 157/500
Movies I voted for: 18/500 (out of 204 voted for, would've been 19 if I'd remembered Let the Corpses Tan...)
Highest movie unseen: Kreuzweg (#14)
Highest movie I voted for: Kocár do Vídne (#1)
Highest movie seen I didn't vote for: Doro no kawa (#2)
Highest favorite: Kocár do Vídne (#1)
Highest dislike: Onna no mizûmi (#93)
Position of my #1: N/A :'(
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#989

Post by mightysparks » October 16th, 2020, 2:23 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:11 pm
Here's another question - maybe harder to answer for most people, particularly those like me who have been watching films for many decades:

What is the film you watched earliest that's on your list?
Probably Jack Frost (my #2), a short film from 1934. I loved it as a kid, I was probably around 4/5 (1995/1996) when I first saw it. It always creeped me out. I have a few other early childhood faves (Napoleon (1995), Alice in Wonderland (1985)) on there though which I probably all saw around the same time.
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#990

Post by beavis » October 16th, 2020, 2:24 pm

Moloch, Sombre, a Casa, la Commune... all watched in cinema when they were released 1998-2000. But indeed this one is harder to answer as checkdate is often not viewing date for movies i saw before keeping score on icm, whatiwatch, letterboxd... so there will be older on there

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#991

Post by ckfilm88 » October 16th, 2020, 2:33 pm

Opio wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:08 pm
3 A Christmas Carol (1938): family would play an old VHS copy of this during Christmas, and it's my favorite film of that season. I like most versions of this Dickens story. A sentimental favorite for sure, but I can't help finding the redemption in it moving and uplifting.
I voted for A Christmas Carol (1938) as well (my #111). It's too bad it didn't make it. :(

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#992

Post by filmbantha » October 16th, 2020, 2:35 pm

TalkingElvish wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:04 pm
Amazing. You must be the other person responsible for Lawn Dogs slipping into the Top 500. It was fun while it lasted! Hopefully it can creep back in next year. I saw it both times it played in Tasmania's only arthouse cinema when it came out. Took a bunch of friends the second time. I got to chat to the director, John Duigan, at a film festival last year and he seemed very surprised and delighted that anyone wanted to talk about it. He was there to talk about The Year My Voice Broke, another acclaimed film I'm surprised hasn't shown up here, especially as it's on two other lists and regularly mentioned as one of the better Australian films. Coincidentally, Rolf de Heer was at the screening too.
I'm pretty sure Sol has it high up on his list too unless I'm mistaken? Hopefully it won't be too far down into the second part of the list although it might exceed the 400 checks before next year, we shall have to see! That's really cool that you met John Duigan, I haven't explored his filmography at all (I've only seen Lawn Dogs and The Parole Officer) so maybe I should take a look at his other films. The year my voice broke sounds familiar, it might have been covered in the recent BBC series David Stratton's stories of Australian cinema - which is still on BBC Iplayer and is a fascinating watch for anyone reading this who is curious about Australian cinema in general.

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#993

Post by filmbantha » October 16th, 2020, 2:44 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:11 pm
Here's another question - maybe harder to answer for most people, particularly those like me who have been watching films for many decades:

What is the film you watched earliest that's on your list?
Great question! I sorted my nominations list by icm check date and there were a few at the top that were imported from IMDB when I joined icm. It's hard to pinpoint the exact earliest film out of these but from memory I would have to go with Female Agents (2008) - I saw this at the arthouse cinema I volunteered at shortly after finishing uni. It's a gripping war time adventure which is quite brutal and traumatic in parts although I haven't seen it since. A commenter on icm says 'The Dirty Dozen with women' which certainly gives you an idea of what you are in for if this one peaks your curiosity.

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#994

Post by cinephage » October 16th, 2020, 2:57 pm

Movies seen: 169/500
Movies I voted for: 52/500 (out of 300 voted for)
Highest movie unseen: Przesluchanie (#9)
Highest movie I voted for: Doro no kawa (#2)
Highest movie seen I didn't vote for: Kocár do Vídne (#1)
Highest favorite: Doro no kawa (#2)
Position of my #1: #203
Highest vote of mine that didn't make it into the list : Dance me to my Song (#3) - Omocha (#5)

I'v watched exactly 25 films this year from the 500<400 list, and I lost exactly 25 official films (I was at # 194/500). Back to where I started... :lol:

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#995

Post by Onderhond » October 16th, 2020, 3:06 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:11 pm
Here's another question - maybe harder to answer for most people, particularly those like me who have been watching films for many decades:

What is the film you watched earliest that's on your list?
No doubt one of the animes, of which Patlabor 2 looks like the most likely candidate. Considering the relative popularity of anime here, the easy accessibility of the film, Oshii's involvement and the closeness to Ghost in the Shell, it's pretty baffling. Saw it for the first time on BBC during the mid-late 90s, you'd think a film like that would've reached 400 checks by now.

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#996

Post by 72aicm » October 16th, 2020, 3:12 pm

Not that many «forum films» in my top ten list. Several movies watched because of forum challenges though.


01. The Music of Chance (1993) 121 checks
Watched because of James Spader.

02. Flucht nach Berlin (1961) 9 checks
Watched because of my fondness of Die endlose Nacht (same director).

03. Ne me quitte pas (2013) 87 checks
WC-movie.

04. Il capo dei capi (2007) 59 checks
A mini-serie that I saw when it aired.

05. Soldaten og Jenny (1947) 64 checks
A movie so good that I had to help create subs for it. Watched during a forum challenge.

06. A Woman's Tale (1991) 163 checks
Watched because it’s on the Ebert list.

07. The Art of Flying (2015) 22 checks
Watched during a Benelux challenge. Just a random short available at dafilms.com

08. The Work (2017) 165 checks
No idea why I watched it and if someone recommended it to me, but I think I saw it during an Unofficial challenge.

09. Acht Stunden sind kein Tag (1972) 78 checks
Watched because it was on the 500<400 list last year. I just realised it’s not on the list anymore. :down:

10. Alexandra's Project (2003) 257 checks
Watched because it’s directed by de Heer.

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#997

Post by Opio » October 16th, 2020, 3:49 pm

ckfilm88 wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:33 pm
Opio wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:08 pm
3 A Christmas Carol (1938): family would play an old VHS copy of this during Christmas, and it's my favorite film of that season. I like most versions of this Dickens story. A sentimental favorite for sure, but I can't help finding the redemption in it moving and uplifting.
I voted for A Christmas Carol (1938) as well (my #111). It's too bad it didn't make it. :(
I noticed that, good pick! I especially think the real-life couple of Gene and Kathleen Lockhart do a nice job as the Cractchits in this version, particularly the former as Bob. I've seen the original B&W version, but I think the old VHS copy we had was taped off Ted Turner's TBS channel and was colorized. Somehow I don't mind it as much for this film, but it is pretty odd in general. I read somewhere that one of Orson Welles last statements prior to passing was something like "Keep Ted Turner and his crayons away from my films!"

And hey, at least we helped get Hollywood Shuffle on the list. Love the version of Siskel & Ebert they do in that film.

Coincidentally, those two films are likely candidates for Ale's question...
OldAle1 wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 2:11 pm
What is the film you watched earliest that's on your list?
Both of those I likely saw as a youngster in the latter part of the 80s but have rewatched both since. The other candidate would be a guilty pleasure I taped off a local TV channel around the same time and that I snuck onto my list called Bruce Lee's Deadly Kung Fu or Bruce Lee's Secret or probably some other title emphasizing Lee who is not in the film. Instead Bruce Li stars in this corny kung fu flick, set supposedly in San Francisco. I wouldn't want to watch any self-respecting non-English film dubbed by third parties but it can be pretty funny here. I also think the fight scenes are pretty decent, in a non-exaggerated way, and there's a funky soundtrack that I think was ripped off from Barry White, like this song specifically.

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#998

Post by jeff_v » October 16th, 2020, 4:00 pm

How/why I saw my Top 10:

1. Daisy Kenyon - Saw this before ICM existed, based on Mike D'Angelo's rave (sorry OldAle).

2. The Gambler - Also saw many years ago (20?). I think it was brought up in some forum discussion about 70s movies.

3. Human Resources - Saw in theatrical release.

4. The Iceman Cometh - Netflix DVD many years ago. Interest generated probably based on the cast.

5. An Inn at Osaka - Saw and really liked Where Chimneys are Seen and needed more Gosho in my life. This was even better.

6. Pennies from Heaven - Loved The Singing Detective and wanted to check out more Dennis Potter.

7. Love and Diane - Saw in theatrical release.

8. Nothing but a Man - Came up in another forum discussion on hidden gems, prior to ICM.

9. Daughter from Danang - Netflix DVD based on critics' raves.

10. Khrustalyov, My Car! - Saw at the San Francisco Int'l Film Festival in 1999.

My highest ranked film that came from ICM recommendation was my #14: A Fugitive from the Past

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#999

Post by sol » October 16th, 2020, 4:16 pm

72aicm wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 3:12 pm
10. Alexandra's Project (2003) 257 checks
Watched because it’s directed by de Heer.
And because it was recommend by sol.

I do recall you thanking me - though of course a sol-recommendation is hardly a reason to watch a film in general. :unsure:
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#1000

Post by OldAle1 » October 16th, 2020, 4:19 pm

jeff_v wrote:
October 16th, 2020, 4:00 pm
How/why I saw my Top 10:

1. Daisy Kenyon - Saw this before ICM existed, based on Mike D'Angelo's rave (sorry OldAle).

My highest ranked film that came from ICM recommendation was my #14: A Fugitive from the Past
Heh. No critic can be wrong all the time. It's mostly D'Angelo's attitude and writing style that I dislike (though his tastes aren't that congruent with mine either).

Really love Fugitive from the Past myself - saw it 5 years ago, pretty sure I knew about it from somebody(s) on the IMDb Classics Board. My first Uchida film and I've loved the other three I've seen as well. Definitely a name that deserves more recognition.

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