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World Cup, Season 4, Match QFB: India vs Greece (Sep 20th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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World Cup, Season 4, Match QFB: India vs Greece (Sep 20th)

#1

Post by joachimt »

This is match QFB of the fourth season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
IndiaElippathayamRat-Trap1982Riteshlinklink
GreeceRembetiko 1983burneyfanlinklink

Screenshots
Elippathayam
Image

Rembetiko
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch both films before you vote.
- To vote, post which of the two movies is your favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Sep 20th
Countdown till deadline

The country that ends at 1st place proceeds to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Movie with most votes wins.
- In case of a tie the match will have a 3 day extension.
- In case there's still a tie then, the next voter decides by sudden death.
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works
We start with 32 films from 32 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 8 groups of 4. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 16 remaining countries will be divided into 8 matches of 2. The managers pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.
iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons
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#2

Post by joachimt »

1. Rembetiko 8/10
2. Elippathayam 7/10
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#3

Post by Cocoa »

1. Elippathayam 5/10
2. Rembetiko 4/10

Not a good match for me. I watched Elippathayam five years ago and it's a forgettable film for me. I just watched Rembetiko and I thought it was incredibly dull.
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#4

Post by Traveller »

1. Rembetiko
2. Elippathayam

Both films were absolutely fantastic - strongest matchup in the World Cup for me so far. Rembetiko was a pleasant discovery.
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#5

Post by zhangalan »

1. Elippathayam
2. Rembetiko

Two good films. I slightly prefer the Indian one.
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#6

Post by Mario Gaborović »

1. Elippathayam
2. Rembetiko
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#7

Post by 72aicm »

1. Rembetiko
2. Elippathayam
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#8

Post by klaus78 »

1. Elippathayam (India) 7/10
2. Rembetiko (Greece) 7/10
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#9

Post by weirdboy »

Is this not match QF B?

The link at the top of the forum says A
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#10

Post by joachimt »

weirdboy wrote: September 8th, 2020, 3:45 am Is this not match QF B?

The link at the top of the forum says A
It says B now.
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#11

Post by Angel Glez »

1. Elippathayam
2. Rembetiko
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#12

Post by beavis »

1. Elippathayam - 8
2. Rembetiko - 7.5

Another strong match and close one for me!
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#13

Post by Armoreska »

1. Elippathayam 8-
2. Rembetiko 5+

Bharat 7-3 Ellada
he or A. or Armo or any

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#14

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Image Elippathayam: 7
Image Rembetiko: 3

10.5 days left.
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#15

Post by zuma »

01 - Elippathayam

02 - Rembetiko
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#16

Post by Smoover »

1. Rembetiko 7/10
2. Elippathayam 6.5/10
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#17

Post by hurluberlu »

1. Elippathayam 7-
2. Rembetiko 6-
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage
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#18

Post by Muellwind »

1. Elippathayam
2. Rembetiko
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#19

Post by pitchorneirda »

I have found a 150 min version of the film but iCM and IMDb both say it's 110 min long. Does anybody know why there's such a difference? Should I have known this earlier, I would have watched it when I had the time, it's gonna be hard for me to save 2h30 straight before the deadline, but I'll try to watch it in two parts
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#20

Post by clemmetarey »

pitchorneirda wrote: September 14th, 2020, 9:47 pm I have found a 150 min version of the film but iCM and IMDb both say it's 110 min long. Does anybody know why there's such a difference? Should I have known this earlier, I would have watched it when I had the time, it's gonna be hard for me to save 2h30 straight before the deadline, but I'll try to watch it in two parts
The film offers plenty of occasion to pause it, so watching it in more than two parts if you don't mind that is easily doable.


1. Elippathayam (1982) 8/10
2. Rembetiko (1983) 7/10

A very strong match, but Rat Trap is a favorite. Greece had great contenders this world cup edition, cheers burneyfan :cheers: (and Ritesh of course!)
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#21

Post by pitchorneirda »

1. Elippathayam 7-
Seen (too) long ago, I don't have anything to say that wouldn't be generic

2. Rembetiko 4-
Finally watched it in three or four parts, which I didn't mind to do because I was already so bored after 30 minutes, if it wasn't for the World Cup I probably wouldn't have finished it.
I like rembetiko (the music) but the film rested too heavily on it, I agree with Cocoa it was a bit dull and the genre mix of musical, historical epic and romance didn't work

PS: Seems like I listened to the OST of the film many times without realizing it, even if many songs were familiar to me. If you use Spotify, here is the link to the album: https://open.spotify.com/album/2TSPfJtC35FvqqiEUewX8k

Kegome Kegome is a highlight
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#22

Post by Gorro »

1. Elippathayam
2. Rembetiko
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#23

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Image Elippathayam: 13
Image Rembetiko: 4

3 days left.
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#24

Post by Nathan Treadway »

1. Rembetiko
2. Elippathayam
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#25

Post by jvv »

1. Rembetiko
2. Elippathayam
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#26

Post by zzzorf »

1. Elippathayam
2. Rembetiko
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#27

Post by kingink »

1. Rembetiko 9/10
2. Elippathayam 8/10

Oh that's too bad for Rebetiko. Not the not winning part, but the fact that many people didn't seem to connect with it. It is one of my favorite greek movies.
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#28

Post by filmbantha »

I really enjoyed both of these films so thanks to the managers for their choices. It was a very close contest in my eyes and difficult to pick a winner:

1. Elippathayam 7/10
2. Rembetiko 7/10
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#29

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Image Elippathayam: 15
Image Rembetiko: 7

22 hours left.
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#30

Post by burneyfan »

1. Rembetiko
2. Elippathayam

I am sorry more people did not connect with Rembetiko, but I am glad that if it is going to lose, it is to an extremely good film like Elippathayam. You chose a great film, Ritesh! :cheers:
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#31

Post by weirdboy »

1. Elippathayam AKA Rat-Trap (1982) - Adoor Gopalakrishnan [re-watch]
2. Rembetiko (1983) - Costas Ferris
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#32

Post by kingink »

burneyfan wrote: September 20th, 2020, 12:16 pm 1. Rembetiko
2. Elippathayam

I am sorry more people did not connect with Rembetiko, but I am glad that if it is going to lose, it is to an extremely good film like Elippathayam. You chose a great film, Ritesh! :cheers:
Rebetiko was a great choice as well! But yeah, you are right. At least Elippathayam is a great film!
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#33

Post by Fergenaprido »

1. Elippathayam
2. Rembetiko

Before the match I thought I'd be voting the other way.

I saw Rat-Trap a few years ago, and what I said then still stands:
Fergenaprido wrote: February 23rd, 2015, 2:54 pm I watched this for the 500<400 list back in September. Didn't really like it, but it's not terrible.

6.4/10
That being said, the film has remained distinct in my memory, unlike other films that tend to fade away and lose all the finer details. If the Greek film had been better, I was actually going to rewatch this one to be sure of my opinion, something I've never done in a WC match so far. But ultimately that wasn't necessary. I may rewatch it again some time this decade and see if it improves upon another viewing. I feel like it should.

The Greek film was a bore. I completely get why it stirs up nostalgic feelings for some people, but it didn't for me - I have no personal connection to anything in the film, I'm not Greek, and I wasn't familiar with the music beforehand. I watched the 2004 "director's cut" (the 2.5-hour version), and it was way too long. The fact that it took 20 minutes to set the mood/introduce the story and still have nothing significant happen should have warned me of what was to come. The music was nice, yes, but really that's all that was memorable about this film - I could have just played the soundtrack and gained the same appreciation for the music. The insertion of historical footage to reference the time periods was an interesting choice (and I'm thankful for the subtitler who went the extra length to indicate what those were depicting even though there was no text onscreen to translate), but they didn't connect with the main story at all. It's said this is loosely based on the life of the singer Marika Ninou, but they changed so much I wonder what was the point of bothering to try and base it off of something. (Tangent - I saw Our Children last night, which is another fictional story loosely based off of a real event, and I think that did a better job of referencing/honouring the source material while still managing to tell an independent and compelling story) And as a non-Greek, a lot of the reference points were lost on me as I'm not very familiar with Greek history beyond the basics (I knew about the Greek-Turkish war and population exchange, the Nazi occupation, and the fact that there was a military dictatorship at some point, but nothing else), which probably didn't help me to connect with the film. The scenes before and after the war with the soldiers confused me,
some confusing parts
like when they appeared out of nowhere to start rounding people up and then chased people and destroyed the marketplace. Plus that offhand comment about one guy who was killed by the fascists - was he one of the band members? - made no sense to me. And who was it who killed Thomas? I didn't recognize him. And why did he kill him? Something to do with him bribing the police earlier? And why does Yorgos say he loves Marika like a mother and a sister when it's clear he loves her as a woman/wife? Or was that just bad subtitles?

I don't now what score I'll give the film just yet, but it's a dislike for being so boring, so less than 5.5

mini-rant on two things I really didn't like and don't understand why they're in the film
1. The casual misogyny - Sure, the 1980s were a different time, but they way this film treats the women bothers me and I don't think the time period in which it was made is any excuse. Rosa is fine and pleasant and willing to work with Marika, and then all of a sudden she's a drunkard and commits suicide in a single night, without anything being shown prior to that indicating as such, as though the plot needed something to happen, so it decided to change her character to make it "exciting". The worst, in my eyes, was the way the mother was treated - Opening up the filming with a birth scene... what's missing? I know, let's throw in a boobie! Because nothing is more essential in a scene of childbirth that the pregnant woman's breast (because they're bigger then?)- And again, when the mother dies, what do we see? Her poor, broken and battered body... and one boob.

2. The climax of the film when Marika is stabbed is possibly the stupidest climax I've ever seen on film (in a serious drama... I've seen a few stupider ones in some comedies). It seems like it was all a set-up for the admittedly touching funeral scene (which also, while beautiful, seemed entirely unrealistic given everything else that happened in the film), but it wasn't believable at all: the setup with the crowd and the crazy guy, the stabbing itself, the way the crowd flees immediately afterward, her wandering the street slowly, and finally her laying on the staircase while the child streams ribbons across her dying body. It's just not credible to me (especially given that the real singer died a "boring" death of cancer at a young age) and it was the final straw for me for a film that was already testing my patience and my goodwill.

On the lighter side, There's a boom mic mid-shot for 7 seconds in the centre of the frame at around the 51:20 mark (I think... I added the exact timecode to the imdb goofs section), which I found amusing.

And isn't the title a transcription error? Shouldn't it be Rebetiko, not Rembetiko since the Greek is Ρεμπέτικο?
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#34

Post by Armoreska »

Thanks for the review!
But μ is mu??
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#35

Post by edward5 »

1. Elippathayam
2. Rembetiko
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#36

Post by Fergenaprido »

Armoreska wrote: September 20th, 2020, 9:08 pm Thanks for the review!
But μ is mu??
Yes, but µπ is usually written as b in Latin script (as opposed to mp) - I've never seen it transcribed as mb before, and even in the film, when the characters mention the word, I didn't hear an 'm' pronounced..
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#37

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Match is over. India wins.

Image Elippathayam: 18
Image Rembetiko: 8

Congratulations to Ritesh. Also thanks to burneyfan for her pick and the 26 people who voted this match.
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#38

Post by joachimt »

Deadline is over. India wins.

Image Elippathayam: 18
Image Rembetiko : 8

Congratulations to Ritesh. Also thanks to burneyfan for her pick and to the 26 people who voted this match.

Graph isn't very interesting this time......
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#39

Post by joachimt »

Haha
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#40

Post by Mario Gaborović »

joachimt wrote: September 21st, 2020, 11:22 amHaha
Apparently we came from work at the same moment. :lol:
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