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iCM Forum's Favourite Films on 0 Official Lists - Results [2020 edition]

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Pretentious Hipster
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Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Films on 0 Official Lists - Results [2020 edition]

#161

Post by Pretentious Hipster » August 7th, 2020, 5:58 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 5:13 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 4:55 pm
I was actually wanting to rewatch this for that very reason. Although, I can't imagine it beating the 2004+ era of Michael Mann in terms of style. Miami Vice is his most popular among the more avant-garde fans. Blackhat is probably his most stylized work, but I liked Public Enemies the most because seeing that style in an early 20th century setting was so cool.
Mann definitely has a style, but pretty different from Tony Scott's, no? Miami was decent (3.0*), I really disliked Blackhat (1.0*) and Public Enemies (0.5*).
Certainly different styles, just reminded me when I thought of action directors that get a following from avant-garde fans over their style. I usually don't like them, but if you want an 80s style action film set in the style of Noe and Refn, then you might like Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning. But, it was direct to video and low budget so I dunno if it counts as Hollywood.

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#162

Post by Onderhond » August 7th, 2020, 6:30 pm

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 5:58 pm
Certainly different styles, just reminded me when I thought of action directors that get a following from avant-garde fans over their style. I usually don't like them, but if you want an 80s style action film set in the style of Noe and Refn, then you might like Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning. But, it was direct to video and low budget so I dunno if it counts as Hollywood.
First one might have been Hollywood, but I think the sequel definitely sounds more like pure genre film territory :)
I'm not that big on action myself, especially not the US/80s films. Wasn't really happy with the first film either, but you at least made it sound interesting. I'll keep my eyes open!

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#163

Post by mathiasa » August 7th, 2020, 6:58 pm

#214 (+615, #829) MacGruber (2010, Jorma Taccone), 192.02 points, 2613 checks, 66 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 214, 829, 640
2 votesShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#1)
mathiasa (#7)

This made my day. The best
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fucking
movie ever made finally shows up on a icm poll. I'm waiting for this for about 7 years... :banana: :banana:
And the craziest thing, I'm not even top voter. Perception, if I knew that I would have put Macgruber at #1 as well. :party: :party:

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#164

Post by Carmel1379 » August 7th, 2020, 7:26 pm

lynchs wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 2:06 pm
Carmel1379 wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 7:07 pm
lynchs wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 3:20 pm
WARNING!

Carmel is on the house! another WARNING, Carmel and MADONNA :woot:

Welcome back m8 :turned:
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Can't see the pic m8 :rolleyes:
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Hmmm, it was just
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Image

;) :$

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#165

Post by Pretentious Hipster » August 7th, 2020, 8:49 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 6:30 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 5:58 pm
Certainly different styles, just reminded me when I thought of action directors that get a following from avant-garde fans over their style. I usually don't like them, but if you want an 80s style action film set in the style of Noe and Refn, then you might like Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning. But, it was direct to video and low budget so I dunno if it counts as Hollywood.
First one might have been Hollywood, but I think the sequel definitely sounds more like pure genre film territory :)
I'm not that big on action myself, especially not the US/80s films. Wasn't really happy with the first film either, but you at least made it sound interesting. I'll keep my eyes open!
It's a deconstruction of an 80s action film. Action scenes are actually quite violent and horrifying and this film emphasizes those aspects of action scenes. It's closer to a horror film tbh

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#166

Post by blocho » August 8th, 2020, 2:22 am

I'm surprised Pretty Poison didn't get more votes. I seem to remember it being on the 500<400 list before it went above 400 checks.

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#167

Post by cinewest » August 8th, 2020, 2:35 am

Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 8:49 pm
Onderhond wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 6:30 pm
Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 5:58 pm
Certainly different styles, just reminded me when I thought of action directors that get a following from avant-garde fans over their style. I usually don't like them, but if you want an 80s style action film set in the style of Noe and Refn, then you might like Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning. But, it was direct to video and low budget so I dunno if it counts as Hollywood.
First one might have been Hollywood, but I think the sequel definitely sounds more like pure genre film territory :)
I'm not that big on action myself, especially not the US/80s films. Wasn't really happy with the first film either, but you at least made it sound interesting. I'll keep my eyes open!
It's a deconstruction of an 80s action film. Action scenes are actually quite violent and horrifying and this film emphasizes those aspects of action scenes. It's closer to a horror film tbh
Somehow I have my doubts that these filmmakers had any intention of being “deconstructionist,” or if so, whether their notions went very far.... which brings me to a question I often think about when reading post modern critics. Does an artist’s intention matter, or is value and meaning solely up to the viewer?
Flip it around and consider some of what passes for museum worthy art solely based on an extensive explanation of everything it is about, even when it is a scrap of paper on the floor.

I tend to like art and movies where the creator’s consciousness and sensibility is transmitted in their work and not simply “posed” or being constructed after the fact.
Last edited by cinewest on August 8th, 2020, 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#168

Post by cinewest » August 8th, 2020, 2:38 am

beavis wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 4:00 pm
I've seen 5 Mundruczo films so far and my clear favorite is Jupiter's Moon. Maybe twice as good as Delta ;) another very harsh but interesting one is Pleasant Days, but that one is hard to recommend. Jupiter's Moon has a more general appeal... but not in a way that makes it weak or less interesting, more people should seek if out, even if they disliked previous movies.
Jupiter’s Moon looks interesting, so I’ll keep my eye out for it

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#169

Post by outdoorcats » August 8th, 2020, 5:32 am

cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:35 am
Pretentious Hipster wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 8:49 pm
Onderhond wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 6:30 pm

First one might have been Hollywood, but I think the sequel definitely sounds more like pure genre film territory :)
I'm not that big on action myself, especially not the US/80s films. Wasn't really happy with the first film either, but you at least made it sound interesting. I'll keep my eyes open!
It's a deconstruction of an 80s action film. Action scenes are actually quite violent and horrifying and this film emphasizes those aspects of action scenes. It's closer to a horror film tbh
Somehow I have my doubts that the filmmakers had any intention of being “deconstructionist,” or if so whether their notions went very far.... which brings me to a question I often think about when reading post modern critics. Does an artist’s intention matter, or is value and meaning solely up to the viewer?
Flip it around and consider some of what passes for museum worthy art solely based on an extensive explanation of everything it is about even if it is a scrap of paper on the floor.

I tend to like art and movies where the Depth of the creator’s consciousness and sensibility is transmitted in their work and not simply “posing” or being constructed after the fact.
Pretentious Hipster is referring to Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning which actually is an arthouse, surreal horror film that presumably is only a straight-to-DVD Universal Soldier sequel because that's the only way director John Hyams could get funding for his ideas. (Here's the first five minutes. Of course, there is action and martial arts, but done through a very surreal lens. So actually it is a perfect example of the type of film you're talking about where the depth of creator's consciousness is transmitted through his work. :cheers:

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#170

Post by sol » August 8th, 2020, 6:04 am

blocho wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:22 am
I'm surprised Pretty Poison didn't get more votes. I seem to remember it being on the 500<400 list before it went above 400 checks.
It was Official (still on the 500<400 list) last time that the poll was run, and I forgot/overlooked adding it. :(
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#171

Post by Fergenaprido » August 8th, 2020, 7:27 am

Speaking of Universal Soldier...

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#100 (-75, #25) Clerks II (2006, Kevin Smith), 262.19 points, 10695 checks, 504 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 100, 25, 90
9 votesShow
GruesomeTwosome (unranked)
Perception de Ambiguity (#361)
filmbantha (#61)
Gorro (#133)
joachimt (#90)
Cinephage (#19)
OldAle1 (unranked>100)
gromit82 (#58)
mightysparks (#208)

Image

#99 (#new) Shimotsuma monogatari [Kamikaze Girls] (2004, Tetsuya Nakashima), 262.85 points, 730 checks, 105 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 99, new, --
6 votesShow
Clemmetarey (#3)
Lonewolf2003 (unranked>110)
Perception de Ambiguity (#25)
OldAle1 (unranked>100)
Onderhond (#194)
jvv (unranked)

Image

#98 (-3, #95) Lesnaya pesnya. Mavka [Story of the Forest: Mavka] (1981, Yuri Ilyenko), 263.48 points, 65 checks, 6 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 98, 95, --
5 votesShow
Pretentious Hipster (#83)
sortile9io (#53)
joachimt (#1)
beavis (#80)
Gershwin (#52)

Image

#97 (+198, #295) Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning (2012, John Hyams), 264.03 points, 446 checks, 15 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 97, 295, 839
6 votesShow
GruesomeTwosome (unranked)
Perception de Ambiguity (#10)
Pretentious Hipster (#15)
matthewscott8 (#191)
outdoorcats (#107)
Cinephage (#99)

Image

#96 (#new) La antena [The Antenna] (2007, Esteban Sapir), 264.4 points, 417 checks, 59 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 96, new, 334
6 votesShow
JimiAntiloop (#191)
filmbantha (#8)
Gorro (#173)
Blocho (unranked)
joachimt (#29)
sol (#56)

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#172

Post by Fergenaprido » August 8th, 2020, 8:26 am

Image

#95 (+8, #103) Staplerfahrer Klaus - Der erste Arbeitstag [Forklift Driver Klaus: The First Day on the Job] (2000, Prehn & Wagner), 264.72 points, 1301 checks, 86 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 95, 103, 33
6 votesShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#507)
joachimt (#44)
Cinephage (#29)
mightysparks (#139)
mathiasa (#92)
ChrisReynolds (#2)

Image

#94 (#new) Mikres Afrodites [Young Aphrodites] (1963, Nikos Koundouros), 266.9 points, 125 checks, 12 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 94, new, --
4 votesShow
rnilsson19 (#141)
joachimt (#6)
zzzorf (#9)
Melvelet (#27)

Image

#93 (-42, #51) Notes on a Scandal (2006, Richard Eyre), 267.62 points, 3781 checks, 211 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 93, 51, 126
7 votesShow
Lonewolf2003 (unranked>110)
Fergenaprido (#194)
Gorro (#89)
Blocho (unranked)
cinewest (#58)
jvv (unranked)
sol (#35)

Image

#92 (+60, #152) The Doom Generation (1995, Gregg Araki), 267.93 points, 972 checks, 94 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 92, 152, 223
6 votesShow
nimimerkillinen (unranked)
Perception de Ambiguity (#121)
rnilsson19 (#16)
matthewscott8 (#66)
Y U M E (#68)
sol (#63)

Image

#91 (#new) The Man from Earth (2007, Richard Schenkman), 268.93 points, 11212 checks, 1470 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 91, new, --
7 votesShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#99)
AB537 (#25)
Gorro (#2)
joachimt (unranked>167)
OldAle1 (unranked>100)
mightysparks (#60)
sol (#113)

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#173

Post by Smoover » August 8th, 2020, 9:31 am

Damn me, I missed to add Sonagi and Mikres Afrodites
Also Thank you for Smoking and The from Earth.

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#174

Post by Fergenaprido » August 8th, 2020, 10:12 am

Image

#90 (+1425, #1515) Mean Creek (2004, Jacob Aaron Estes), 270.59 points, 1714 checks, 106 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 90, 1515, 3732
6 votesShow
nimimerkillinen (unranked)
Fergenaprido (#334)
outdoorcats (#8)
Gorro (#367)
Lakigigar (#8)
Nathan Treadway (unranked)

Image

#89 (+101, #190) The Thirteenth Floor (1999, Josef Rusnak), 273.8 points, 3053 checks, 169 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 89, 190, 665
4 votesShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#45)
JimiAntiloop (#7)
Blocho (unranked)
mightysparks (#13)

Image

#88 (-53, #35) Jesus Christ Superstar (1973, Norman Jewison), 273.86 points, 3113 checks, 233 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 88, 35, 46
7 votesShow
Fergenaprido (#299)
sortile9io (#42)
Gorro (#343)
lineuphere (#67)
joachimt (#8)
Ebbywebby (#64)
Nathan Treadway (unranked)

Image

#87 (+324, #411) Crimson Peak (2015, Guillermo del Toro), 273.91 points, 4541 checks, 205 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 87, 411, --
6 votesShow
GruesomeTwosome (unranked)
AB537 (#12)
Lakigigar (#16)
Ebbywebby (#76)
mightysparks (#175)
brokenface (#101)

Image

#86 (-45, #41) La tortue rouge [The Red Turtle] (2016, Michaël Dudok de Wit), 274.17 points, 1785 checks, 200 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 86, 41, --
8 votesShow
Lonewolf2003 (#11)
GruesomeTwosome (unranked)
Fergenaprido (#109)
matthewscott8 (#216)
Gorro (#161)
joachimt (unranked>167)
Gershwin (#5)
ChrisReynolds (unranked>67)

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#175

Post by cinewest » August 8th, 2020, 10:39 am

A second Loznitsa has appeared (on the strength to 3 high placements this time), and that is very gratifying. This is an outstanding, small war film with big themes, backstory woven in. Very well written, acted, and directed.
Last edited by cinewest on August 8th, 2020, 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#176

Post by Fergenaprido » August 8th, 2020, 11:31 am

Image

#85 (#new) So Is This (1982, Michael Snow), 274.43 points, 119 checks, 10 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 85, new, --
4 votesShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#118)
OldAle1 (#41)
Lilarcor (#2)
sol (#2)

Image

#84 (+470, #554) Sin nombre (2009, Cary Joji Fukunaga), 275.06 points, 1901 checks, 162 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 84, 554, 5123
7 votesShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#905)
Gordon_Gekko (#116)
filmbantha (#13)
Gorro (#123)
peeptoad (#46)
Lakigigar (#49)
Smoover (#56)

Image

#83 (+73, #156) Un homme de tetes [Four Heads Are Better Than One/The Four Troublesome Heads] (1898, Georges Méliès), 276.32 points, 997 checks, 70 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 83, 156, 6
9 votesShow
OBgeoff (#85)
Perception de Ambiguity (#609)
maxwelldeux (#64)
joachimt (#98)
Nathan Treadway (unranked)
mightysparks (#342)
Smoover (#191)
mathiasa (#65)
ChrisReynolds (#12)

Image

#82 (+286, #368) End of Watch (2012, David Ayer), 277.1 points, 7677 checks, 549 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 82, 368, 625
5 votesShow
Lonewolf2003 (#92)
Gordon_Gekko (#111)
filmbantha (#1)
Gorro (#63)
beasterne (#13)

Image

#81 (#new) V tumane [In the Fog] (2012, Sergei Loznitsa), 279.02 points, 237 checks, 20 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 81, new, --
4 votesShow
matthewscott8 (#214)
pitchorneirda (#7)
cinewest (#12)
beavis (#4)

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#177

Post by Onderhond » August 8th, 2020, 11:35 am

How could it be that Jesus Christ Superstar isn't in any list at all? Not that I'm a big fan, but that's a pretty big/famous film, should've been picked up somewhere, no?

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#178

Post by cinewest » August 8th, 2020, 11:45 am

cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 10:39 am
outdoorcats wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 5:32 am
cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:35 am


Somehow I have my doubts that the filmmakers had any intention of being “deconstructionist,” or if so whether their notions went very far.... which brings me to a question I often think about when reading post modern critics. Does an artist’s intention matter, or is value and meaning solely up to the viewer?
Flip it around and consider some of what passes for museum worthy art solely based on an extensive explanation of everything it is about even if it is a scrap of paper on the floor.

I tend to like art and movies where the Depth of the creator’s consciousness and sensibility is transmitted in their work and not simply “posing” or being constructed after the fact.
Pretentious Hipster is referring to Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning which actually is an arthouse, surreal horror film that presumably is only a straight-to-DVD Universal Soldier sequel because that's the only way director John Hyams could get funding for his ideas. (Here's the first five minutes. Of course, there is action and martial arts, but done through a very surreal lens. So actually it is a perfect example of the type of film you're talking about where the depth of creator's consciousness is transmitted through his work. :cheers:
Sounds like one of those cult action / sci-fi movies like Starship Troopers or Robocop. The mix of excessive violence and horror is not really my thing, though there could be exceptions when they come as part of a compelling story.

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#179

Post by OldAle1 » August 8th, 2020, 12:01 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 11:35 am
How could it be that Jesus Christ Superstar isn't in any list at all? Not that I'm a big fan, but that's a pretty big/famous film, should've been picked up somewhere, no?
I guess it didn't make enough money to hit the domestic box office list - and by that point American musicals weren't really doing well worldwide either, so there goes the second box office list. No major awards obviously. I dunno, I haven't seen it (or the similar Godspell, also pretty famous but on 0 lists) because as much as I love musicals, the 70s rock and/or hippie examples are pretty much not my thing - don't like Grease or Hair, haven't bothered with The Wiz, etc. I think this is an area in film history that has pretty much fallen out of favor overall. But yeah, it certainly is more generally known than most of the films that have appeared on this list so far.

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#180

Post by Fergenaprido » August 8th, 2020, 12:28 pm

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#80 (+97, #177) Hanna (2011, Joe Wright), 279.48 points, 11925 checks, 607 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 80, 177, 97
9 votesShow
Lonewolf2003 (#62)
OBgeoff (#52)
Perception de Ambiguity (#123)
TraverseTown (#268)
JimiAntiloop (unranked>255)
Fergenaprido (#347)
Gorro (#34)
Cinephage (#7)
Smoover (#179)

Image

#79 (+72, #151) Djävulens öga [The Devil's Eye] (1960, Ingmar Bergman), 280.53 points, 455 checks, 30 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 79, 151, 140
6 votesShow
Opio (#24)
Perception de Ambiguity (#233)
JimiAntiloop (#17)
lineuphere (#55)
Ebbywebby (#164)
sol (#31)

Image

#78 (+438, #516) Le monde vivant [The Living World (2003, Eugène Green), 282.86 points, 75 checks, 13 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 78, 516, 2017
4 votesShow
Pretentious Hipster (#41)
lineuphere (#6)
72aicm (unranked)
RBG (unranked)

Image

#77 (+2549, #2626) Asha Jaoar Majhe [Labour of Love] (2014, Sengupta, Aditya Vikram), 285.3 points, 32 checks, 8 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 77, 2626, --
4 votesShow
Perception de Ambiguity (#104)
beavis (#11)
Melvelet (#8)
Y U M E (#14)

Image

#76 (+531, #607) Histoire de Marie et Julien [The Story of Marie and Julien] (2003, Jacques Rivette), 285.94 points, 184 checks, 12 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 76, 607, 415
5 votesShow
Opio (#21)
sortile9io (#11)
pitchorneirda (#3)
OldAle1 (unranked>100)
brokenface (#119)

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#181

Post by Lammetje » August 8th, 2020, 1:44 pm

Carmel1379 wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 7:26 pm
lynchs wrote:
August 7th, 2020, 2:06 pm
Carmel1379 wrote:
August 6th, 2020, 7:07 pm
SpoilerShow
Image
Can't see the pic m8 :rolleyes:
SpoilerShow
Hmmm, it was just
SpoilerShow
Image

;) :$

Are the powers that be deterring a possible return of Carmedonna? Whomst keeps a rein on this prima donna's unwieldy puny homecoming? Maybe it's myself, the swelling insecurities resulting in one's own repression... The time might not yet be ripe :ph43r:



Stay gold, my Portuguese m8

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What's all this Madge business about? :)
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#182

Post by blocho » August 8th, 2020, 1:51 pm

cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:35 am
which brings me to a question I often think about when reading post modern critics. Does an artist’s intention matter, or is value and meaning solely up to the viewer?
Such an essential question. I tend to think that it's worthwhile trying to understand authorial intention but that to give this intention primacy when it comes to interpretation is to make a bid for objectivity when the experience of all art is subjective. Once art is shared, understanding is no longer under the control of the person who created it.

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#183

Post by Onderhond » August 8th, 2020, 2:07 pm

blocho wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 1:51 pm
Once art is shared, understanding is no longer under the control of the person who created it.
I agree with this a lot. Art is a special kind of communication, but also very random and haphazard, and probably one of the worst way to try and communicate something specific, because it is so susceptible to interpretation.

So forgoing intent is fine by me. After all, I'm a fan of the artwork, not the artist.

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#184

Post by matthewscott8 » August 8th, 2020, 2:09 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 10:12 am
#87 (+324, #411) Crimson Peak (2015, Guillermo del Toro), 273.91 points, 4541 checks, 205 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 87, 411, --
6 votesShow
GruesomeTwosome (unranked)
AB537 (#12)
Lakigigar (#16)
Ebbywebby (#76)
mightysparks (#175)
brokenface (#101)
The editing in this one is laughably bad, perhaps the worst I can think of. Such a same as the production design is magnifique.

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#185

Post by Onderhond » August 8th, 2020, 2:10 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 12:01 pm
I guess it didn't make enough money to hit the domestic box office list - and by that point American musicals weren't really doing well worldwide either, so there goes the second box office list. No major awards obviously. I dunno, I haven't seen it (or the similar Godspell, also pretty famous but on 0 lists) because as much as I love musicals, the 70s rock and/or hippie examples are pretty much not my thing - don't like Grease or Hair, haven't bothered with The Wiz, etc. I think this is an area in film history that has pretty much fallen out of favor overall. But yeah, it certainly is more generally known than most of the films that have appeared on this list so far.
We have 200 lists, from cult to weird to a couple of 1000 this and that lists. It's such a well-known film (knew about it long before I watched it and it's definitely something outside of my comfort zone), so I just find it odd it slipped through the cracks. Never heard of Godspell before, but something like Grease is in 11 lists :)

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#186

Post by cinewest » August 8th, 2020, 2:46 pm

blocho wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 1:51 pm
cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:35 am
which brings me to a question I often think about when reading post modern critics. Does an artist’s intention matter, or is value and meaning solely up to the viewer?
Such an essential question. I tend to think that it's worthwhile trying to understand authorial intention but that to give this intention primacy when it comes to interpretation is to make a bid for objectivity when the experience of all art is subjective. Once art is shared, understanding is no longer under the control of the person who created it.
So, if I can see something amazing in that little scrap of paper on the floor, it becomes amazing, at least to me, and if I can sell the idea to the right people, it can become as valuable as my ability to sell it.

Of course, it's not easy to interest a great many in a scrap of paper, no matter how you try to convince people to imagine it, but it is fairly easy to captivate an audience by stimulating certain neuro-receptors, and you don't even need much creativity, imagination, or skill to do so.
Last edited by cinewest on August 8th, 2020, 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#187

Post by Onderhond » August 8th, 2020, 2:55 pm

cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:46 pm
So, if I can see something amazing in that little scrap of paper on the floor, it becomes amazing, at least to me, and if I can sell the idea to the right people, it can become as valuable as my ability to sell it.
I've seen some structural film shorts ... that scrap of paper sounds quite appealing compared to that. And you wouldn't believe the expensive words dug up to describe these shorts.

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#188

Post by Fergenaprido » August 8th, 2020, 3:18 pm

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#75 (+70, #145) Super Troopers (2001, Jay Chandrasekhar), 286.21 points, 13384 checks, 650 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 75, 145, 290
6 votesShow
Gordon_Gekko (#186)
filmbantha (#15)
maxwelldeux (#13)
Blocho (unranked)
mightysparks (#176)
beasterne (#38)

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#74 (+100, #174) Phone Booth (2002, Joel Schumacher), 286.88 points, 16149 checks, 528 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 74, 174, 331
7 votesShow
Lonewolf2003 (unranked>110)
Perception de Ambiguity (#220)
explorer95 (#11)
Gorro (#26)
joachimt (#25)
beasterne (#84)
sol (#205)

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#73 (#new) Suspiria (2018, Luca Guadagnino), 287.95 points, 1693 checks, 133 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 73, new, --
10 votesShow
rnilsson19 (#120)
TraverseTown (#38)
JimiAntiloop (#155)
Gordon_Gekko (#178)
outdoorcats (#10)
Gorro (#174)
joachimt (unranked>167)
Y U M E (#31)
Smoover (#150)
brokenface (#159)

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#72 (+86, #158) The War Zone (1999, Tim Roth), 289.57 points, 444 checks, 37 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 72, 158, 899
4 votesShow
jeff_v (#17)
filmbantha (#16)
outdoorcats (#65)
cinewest (#11)

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#71 (+257, #328) The Negotiator (1998, F. Gary Gray), 290.92 points, 5669 checks, 203 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 71, 328, 178
7 votesShow
Gordon_Gekko (#76)
Gorro (#179)
Blocho (unranked)
joachimt (#33)
zzzorf (#21)
shugs (#47)
Smoover (#157)

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#189

Post by outdoorcats » August 8th, 2020, 3:44 pm

Sounds like one of those cult action / sci-fi movies like Starship Troopers or Robocop.
It's closer to something like Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.

Peter...is your social worker in that horse?

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#190

Post by mightysparks » August 8th, 2020, 3:53 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:07 pm
blocho wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 1:51 pm
Once art is shared, understanding is no longer under the control of the person who created it.
I agree with this a lot. Art is a special kind of communication, but also very random and haphazard, and probably one of the worst way to try and communicate something specific, because it is so susceptible to interpretation.

So forgoing intent is fine by me. After all, I'm a fan of the artwork, not the artist.
Agreed. I really like the Ursula K. Le Guin quote that can be applied to film as well ‘ The unread story is not a story; it is little black marks on wood pulp. The reader, reading it, makes it live: a live thing, a story.’.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#191

Post by cinewest » August 8th, 2020, 3:56 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:44 pm
Sounds like one of those cult action / sci-fi movies like Starship Troopers or Robocop.
It's closer to something like Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.
That was a pretty horrific and violent first 5 minutes, thanks. Is that what Fire Walk With me is like?

Another scene with a showdown fight between Van Dam and Dolph Lundgren wowed me with it's dialogue and performances. Were they tipping their hat to Rocky, there?

Sorry, not what inspires me about cinema, though I do connect with many of your other movie likes.

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#192

Post by OldAle1 » August 8th, 2020, 4:30 pm

mightysparks wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:53 pm
Onderhond wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:07 pm
blocho wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 1:51 pm
Once art is shared, understanding is no longer under the control of the person who created it.
I agree with this a lot. Art is a special kind of communication, but also very random and haphazard, and probably one of the worst way to try and communicate something specific, because it is so susceptible to interpretation.

So forgoing intent is fine by me. After all, I'm a fan of the artwork, not the artist.
Agreed. I really like the Ursula K. Le Guin quote that can be applied to film as well ‘ The unread story is not a story; it is little black marks on wood pulp. The reader, reading it, makes it live: a live thing, a story.’.
That's a good one. I basically agree with most of what you guys have been saying, although there are certainly some very self-conscious and precise artists who give you a great amount of guidance in how you're supposed to read their work. At least how THEY think you're supposed to read it / view it / hear it. But just as common is somebody like the famously inarticulate John Ford who was rarely interested in providing more than a couple of words or two when asked anything about his work. And a lot of times we just have no idea how the artists felt - what did Shakespeare think about Hamlet's motivations? He has succeeded over four centuries precisely because we have as many interpretations as there are readers and viewers.

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#193

Post by OldAle1 » August 8th, 2020, 4:34 pm

Hmm I really should prioritize Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning, shouldn't I? As someone who loves "arthouse" and "braindead action" pretty much equally it ought to be right up my alley. But do I need to see all the previous films in the franchise first to really understand it? :woot:

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#194

Post by outdoorcats » August 8th, 2020, 4:44 pm

cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:56 pm
outdoorcats wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:44 pm
Sounds like one of those cult action / sci-fi movies like Starship Troopers or Robocop.
It's closer to something like Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.
That was a pretty horrific and violent first 5 minutes, thanks. Is that what Fire Walk With me is like?

Another scene with a showdown fight between Van Dam and Dolph Lundgren wowed me with it's dialogue and performances. Were they tipping their hat to Rocky, there?

Sorry, not what inspires me about cinema, though I do connect with many of your other movie likes.
Sexual abuse is one of the main themes of Fire Walk With Me so, yes, but I meant in terms of sheer surreality and the dream-like nature of it. I definitely agree you wouldn't like it either way, just pointing out it's actually definitely an auteur piece that happens to be called Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning.

Peter...is your social worker in that horse?

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#195

Post by Lonewolf2003 » August 8th, 2020, 4:48 pm

Onderhond wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 11:35 am
How could it be that Jesus Christ Superstar isn't in any list at all? Not that I'm a big fan, but that's a pretty big/famous film, should've been picked up somewhere, no?
Very surprised about that also. Figured it would be in one of those “have to see” lists.

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#196

Post by Lonewolf2003 » August 8th, 2020, 4:55 pm

blocho wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 1:51 pm
cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 2:35 am
which brings me to a question I often think about when reading post modern critics. Does an artist’s intention matter, or is value and meaning solely up to the viewer?
Such an essential question. I tend to think that it's worthwhile trying to understand authorial intention but that to give this intention primacy when it comes to interpretation is to make a bid for objectivity when the experience of all art is subjective. Once art is shared, understanding is no longer under the control of the person who created it.
A very interesting and difficult question to me. While I agree with others above that once art is shared the consumer can interpret how they want, I also believe it goes to far to completely ignore the intention of an artist. So I think I agree with you. Also because if there’s absolutely no artist intent it also works the other way around, an artist could never be blamed for making a racist etc art.

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#197

Post by outdoorcats » August 8th, 2020, 4:55 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 4:34 pm
Hmm I really should prioritize Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning, shouldn't I? As someone who loves "arthouse" and "braindead action" pretty much equally it ought to be right up my alley. But do I need to see all the previous films in the franchise first to really understand it? :woot:
It's the only one of the franchise I've seen personally. It's my understanding there's pretty much zero continuity between them anyway.

Peter...is your social worker in that horse?

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#198

Post by blocho » August 8th, 2020, 4:56 pm

cinewest wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:56 pm
outdoorcats wrote:
August 8th, 2020, 3:44 pm
Sounds like one of those cult action / sci-fi movies like Starship Troopers or Robocop.
It's closer to something like Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me.
That was a pretty horrific and violent first 5 minutes, thanks. Is that what Fire Walk With me is like?
Not at all. It's just that Twin Peaks Fire Walk with Me also stars Dolph Lundgren and JCVD. Dolph plays a high school student who is murdered, and JCVD is the quirky FBI agent who must solve the murder, which he does through a series of splits and spinning back kicks.

:lol:

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#199

Post by Fergenaprido » August 8th, 2020, 5:40 pm

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#70 (#new) The Snowman (1982, Dianne Jackson), 292.16 points, 7300 checks, 303 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 70, new, --
6 votesShow
Panunzio (#76)
GruesomeTwosome (unranked)
Fergenaprido (#15)
joachimt (unranked>167)
OldAle1 (#70)
ChrisReynolds (#3)

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#69 (+555, #624) The Edge of Seventeen (2016, Kelly Fremon Craig), 292.63 points, 2835 checks, 189 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 69, 624, --
7 votesShow
Panunzio (#30)
Gordon_Gekko (#103)
Caracortada (#78)
Gorro (#137)
Lakigigar (#44)
shugs (#31)
sol (#86)

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#68 (+161, #229) The Ides of March (2011, George Clooney), 294.41 points, 10682 checks, 363 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 68, 229, 409
7 votesShow
Lonewolf2003 (#96)
Panunzio (#41)
OBgeoff (#203)
Gordon_Gekko (#181)
AB537 (#16)
Gorro (#117)
shugs (#5)

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#67 (-22, #45) Ronin (1998, John Frankenheimer), 296.91 points, 7467 checks, 334 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 67, 45, 17
8 votesShow
Lonewolf2003 (#32)
OBgeoff (#170)
Lammetje (unranked>7)
filmbantha (#56)
burneyfan (#58)
Blocho (unranked)
Smoover (#149)
ChrisReynolds (unranked>67)

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#66 (-26, #40) Den brysomme mannen [The Bothersome Man] (2006, Jens Lien), 298.25 points, 1441 checks, 162 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 66, 40, 40
5 votesShow
Ebbywebby (#7)
cinewest (#20)
Gershwin (#11)
Smoover (#102)
brokenface (#126)

Hmm, seems I forgot to tell my formula what to do if a rank didn't change between editions. I need to figure out a simpler formula for next time.

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#200

Post by Fergenaprido » August 8th, 2020, 6:25 pm

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#65 (+21, #86) A Charlie Brown Christmas (1965, Bill Melendez), 301.56 points, 15648 checks, 492 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 65, 86, 95
7 votesShow
Gordon_Gekko (#192)
AB537 (unranked>40)
sortile9io (#16)
lineuphere (#79)
OldAle1 (unranked>100)
gromit82 (#34)
beasterne (#33)

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#64 (-52, #12) Rejected (2000, Don Hertzfeldt), 303.04 points, 5319 checks, 508 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 64, 12, --
7 votesShow
Lonewolf2003 (#37)
Perception de Ambiguity (#449)
Fergenaprido (#14)
sortile9io (#104)
mightysparks (#64)
Cocoa (#138)
ChrisReynolds (#19)

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#63 (#new) Utøya 22. juli [Utøya: July 22] (2018, Erik Poppe), 303.66 points, 434 checks, 31 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 63, new, --
5 votesShow
Gordon_Gekko (#55)
Caracortada (#10)
Gorro (#345)
Lakigigar (#5)
72aicm (unranked)

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#62 (#new) Mutter Küsters' Fahrt zum Himmel [Mother Küsters Goes to Heaven] (1975, Rainer Werner Fassbinder), 305.01 points, 241 checks, 25 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 62, new, 87
8 votesShow
rnilsson19 (#167)
TraverseTown (#135)
burneyfan (#53)
Ebbywebby (#24)
3eyes (unranked>25)
Melvelet (#14)
Smoover (#98)
sol (#172)

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#61 (+4946, #5007) Hjartasteinn [Heartstone] (2016, Guðmundur Arnar Guðmundsson), 306.6 points, 183 checks, 17 favourites (IMDb)
Poll History: 61, 5007, --
5 votesShow
Fergenaprido (#37)
Gorro (#187)
lineuphere (#27)
Lakigigar (#4)
72aicm (unranked)

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