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iCM Forum's Favourite Films of the 2010s; 2020 edition; Results

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Re: iCM Forum's Favourite Films of the 2010s; 2020 edition; Results

#801

Post by St. Gloede » July 9th, 2020, 11:30 am

cinewest wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 3:03 pm
Is Denis Villeneuve the new Chris Nolan, or new David Fincher?
:lol:

I can see the comparisons to both, though I suppose the comparison to Nolan rings slightly more true as he is very interested in expressing a degree of artistic merit. I suppose if Interstellar is 2001, then Arrival is Solyaris - though both the films fell somewhat flat for me, unfortunately.

They also have more of a connection with their semi-new wave-inspired early work.

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#802

Post by cinewest » July 9th, 2020, 11:32 am

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 10:59 am
cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 5:31 am
So, if at least some people here agree that neither Villeneuve nor Scorsese were the best filmmakers of the 2010's, who was?

For me, it's easy to answer this question about the 2000's, as Michael Haneke made 5 outstanding movies that decade, and Von Trier followed closely with 4, but I can't think of anyone in the 2010's who made more than 3 stand outs, and some of them are not even on the list above.
Interesting question. My vote would go to;
Wes Anderson, every movie made this decade is a personal favorite and he produced his best work this decade.
Nicolas Winding Refn, he made two movies I really love (Drive and The Neon Demon) and one I liked a lot (Only God Forgives) and also he made his best work this decade.
And in lesser extent Alejandro González Iñárritu and Steve McQueen; both with a batting average of 2 out of 3, with the 3rd also being good, but not outstanding.

Others worth mentioning are Quentin Tarantino and in fact Martin Scorsese; most of their movies of this decade were favorites to me, but both made (much) better work in previous decades.
I have two by Wes Anderson in my top 100, and agree that he has been at the top of his game this past decade. His films are more like tasty deserts than main meals, though, and you have gone on to name two of the filmmakers that bother me more than any others this decade in Tarantino and Winding-refn. whose films I call hipster trash. Scorsese has mostly lost me, as well, though I did include one of his on my list, and probably the filmmaker I like most of this bunch is Inarritu, though he has been hit or miss for me his entire career (The Revenant being one of the big misses despite some spectacular cinematography).

As for McQueen, i like that he goes after meaningful subject matter. I just haven't been nearly as wowed as some with the results, though all are very solid.

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#803

Post by cinewest » July 9th, 2020, 11:36 am

St. Gloede wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 11:23 am
cinewest wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 7:25 am
The arthouse headscratcher so far for me is Cosmopolis.
It is not a 1 to 1 comparison, but try to see it in a similar context as Godard's 90s work (or later work in general). Essentially irreverent, comedic, absurdist satire interjecting poetry, quotes, a plethora of problems, and humbling them into a "cool" and "fun" mix that is essentially sarcastic about itself - essentially everything is and is not a joke, everything is and is not poetry. Add to that the filmmaking and visual concept itself and we have one hell of a ride.
Interesting, and quite possibly a very good comparison. I did;t like Godard's work in the 90's, either. Just not my thing. Neither are some of the movies by Jarmush that some people love
Last edited by cinewest on July 9th, 2020, 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#804

Post by Teproc » July 9th, 2020, 11:37 am

Villeneuve has nowhere near the cultural footprint of a Nolan though. Maybe he will if Dune ends up being a huge success.

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#805

Post by cinewest » July 9th, 2020, 11:38 am

St. Gloede wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 11:30 am
cinewest wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 3:03 pm
Is Denis Villeneuve the new Chris Nolan, or new David Fincher?
:lol:

I can see the comparisons to both, though I suppose the comparison to Nolan rings slightly more true as he is very interested in expressing a degree of artistic merit. I suppose if Interstellar is 2001, then Arrival is Solyaris - though both the films fell somewhat flat for me, unfortunately.

They also have more of a connection with their semi-new wave-inspired early work.
Was thinking more Nolan at first, until I began considering some of Fincher, as well. Agree with Teproc that DV hasn’t quite made the same cultural footprint as Nolan, and thus kinda fits between Nolan and Fincher.
Last edited by cinewest on July 9th, 2020, 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#806

Post by St. Gloede » July 9th, 2020, 11:42 am

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 5th, 2020, 4:00 pm
Image

#389 (-17 #372) Keyhole (Guy Maddin, 2011) 252.84 points
331 checks, official list(s): 1 :imdb:
History: 389, 372, 390, 570, 736, 412, 183, 91
6 votersShow
cinewest (#16)
Ebbywebby (#143)
Melvelet (#46)
OldAle1 (unranked>65)
St. Gloede (#11)
Traversetown (#364)
Need to find a way to boost Keyhole apparently. :shrug:

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#807

Post by St. Gloede » July 9th, 2020, 11:46 am

Thanks for hosting Peaceful, and interesting to see the dropouts. Especially surprised/sad about Goodbye to Language and Summer 1993 - and seeing just how many voters they had shows just how competitive this list is.

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#808

Post by mightysparks » July 9th, 2020, 11:47 am

The maximum amount of films I've loved from any one director this decade is 2, and surprisingly there were about 15 (I expected less than 5) but the only I ones I would say are noteworthy and that I pay attention to:

Adam Wingard (though hit and miss)
Safdie Brothers
Hélène Cattet & Bruno Forzani
Jay Duplass & Mark Duplass
Quentin Tarantino (but this decade included most of his weakest ones, including his first bad one)
S. Craig Zahler
Vincenzo Natali

So, mostly genre filmmakers. Safdie bros, Cattet & Forzani and Zahler are the ones currently on my 'directors to watch' list though, the Duplass brothers would be but they haven't done much that's interested me in a while. I'm not generally very director-oriented, so usually the last thing to draw me to a film is the director.
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#809

Post by St. Gloede » July 9th, 2020, 11:52 am

cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 11:38 am
St. Gloede wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 11:30 am
cinewest wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 3:03 pm
Is Denis Villeneuve the new Chris Nolan, or new David Fincher?
:lol:

I can see the comparisons to both, though I suppose the comparison to Nolan rings slightly more true as he is very interested in expressing a degree of artistic merit. I suppose if Interstellar is 2001, then Arrival is Solyaris - though both the films fell somewhat flat for me, unfortunately.

They also have more of a connection with their semi-new wave-inspired early work.
Was thinking more Nolan at first, until I began considering some of Fincher, as well
Yes, I think in terms of atmosphere, direction of actors, etc. he is much closer to Fincher - but I think he also brings with him certain sensibilities (an inclination towards minimalism) that both Fincher and Nolan typically lacks. I also personally love his slow-brooding and surreal Enemy.

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#810

Post by matthewscott8 » July 9th, 2020, 12:01 pm

3/3 of Wes Anderson's features are on the list, he's also got a 100% success rate for his career so far. Von Trier, Malick, and Coens also at the top.

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#811

Post by St. Gloede » July 9th, 2020, 12:08 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 5:31 am
So, if at least some people here agree that neither Villeneuve nor Scorsese were the best filmmakers of the 2010's, who was?

For me, it's easy to answer this question about the 2000's, as Michael Haneke made 5 outstanding movies that decade, and Von Trier followed closely with 4, but I can't think of anyone in the 2010's who made more than 3 stand outs, and some of them are not even on the list above.
I would agree that it is much harder to select the best director of the 10s, while Haneke is undoubtedly (for me anyways) the best of the 00s.

Personally I would make the case for Terrence Malick, but I realize that's a slightly unpopular take - I just low the way he took his style to its absolute purest and extreme form and brought a degree of passion to exploring the medium we haven't really seen elsewhere - of course with the more story-driven and generally preferred Tree of Life and A Hidden Life.

I could also make the case for Yorgos Lanthimos, who in my opinion has emerged as a new and well-established master director over the last decade. He has his own specific darkly comedic and bleak style, creates massive films you can keep discussing for a very long time and I generally don't think any other directors who debuted in the 2000s have arrived at his status (His two latest films are also contenders for my top 10 of the decade).

Beyond that I can only think of the two Andersons (both with 3 films) and maybe Sciamma as notable alternatives, though I'm sure some would also opt for Bong or perhaps Ceylan. There's also Tarantino, the Coens, the Dardennes and von Trier to consider.

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#812

Post by GruesomeTwosome » July 9th, 2020, 12:11 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 5:31 am
So, if at least some people here agree that neither Villeneuve nor Scorsese were the best filmmakers of the 2010's, who was?
I did a quick look through my best of the 2010s, and I think three favorites from a director is the most I could manage...with Celine Sciamma (Tomboy; Girlhood; Portrait of a Lady on Fire) and Kelly Reichardt (Meek’s Cutoff; Night Moves; Certain Women - and maybe First Cow once I watch it this weekend?) coming out on top.

EDIT: Looks like I should add Sion Sono, with 3 faves: Guilty of Romance, Tokyo Tribe, and The Forest of Love. And he's so prolific, that there's plenty more he made last decade that I haven't seen yet.
Last edited by GruesomeTwosome on July 9th, 2020, 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#813

Post by Pretentious Hipster » July 9th, 2020, 12:19 pm

Directors with multiple entries in my list:

Pedro Costa (2 are in the top 5)
Nikolaus Geyrhalter
James Gray
Paul Thomas Anderson
Harmony Korine
Gianfranco Rosi
Yorgos Lanthimos
Sang-soo Hong
Gan Bi
Terence Davies
Asghar Farhadi
Bill Morrison
Wes Anderson

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#814

Post by OldAle1 » July 9th, 2020, 12:22 pm

Well, I actually do have more films from Scorsese than from anyone else on my list - four (the one that's missing is The Wolf of Wall Street) so he'd be a strong contender for me, though the highest any of his films ranks is 46th. If really pushed to it I'd probably pick Jafar Panahi, who has three films on my list; but then his most recent film was *slightly* less impressive. Or Terence Davies who has only two; both rank very high, but his third film from the period, The Deep Blue Sea, I didn't much like (the only one of his films I had major issues with actually). Or Lav Diaz with only two seen but several more that look great out there.

No choice then is close to perfect. Probably the most sensible choice for me would be Damian Chazelle who made what is currently my favorite film period, and whose second-best of the decade provided a cinematic experience second only to his best film in the decade, even if it has slightly dimmed in memory. But you know his Neil Armstrong bio wasn't nearly as good so...

Yeah no easy choice here. But I don't think I'd have an easy or obvious choice for any previous decade either apart from maybe the 1910s (Feuillade).

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#815

Post by beavis » July 9th, 2020, 12:28 pm

analyzing my favorites and looking at the people who made multiple favorites for me, on top for this decade are most surely:

- Carlos Reygadas: master in making a scene last exactly as long as it needs to be, and making something very personal into something universal. With both Nuestro Tiempo and Post Tenebras Lux he has become a big favorite and modern master, overcoming the fact that I did not really like his early work! at all
- Pedro Costa: already established as a modern master, and an important voice for Portugese cultural heritage, but with Cavalo Dinheiro he made a monumental masterpiece in my eyes, it moved me profoundly like only seldom happens
- Apichatpong Weerasethakul: also well established for me before this decade, but he still made two absolute favorites in this time, and his major influence on young filmmakers across the world became so apparent, that his import cannot be overstated
- Sergey Loznitsa: very prolific in this decade, moving from documentary into fiction with impressive results and also not losing those documentary roots. I am not much of a documentary fan, but I love his work in that field almost as much as his fiction. He is always expressing art, besides expressing a message.
- Paolo Sorrentino: perfected his style. While I can understand that both Youth and Loro will seem like a bit too much style for some, or just a repeat of personal tropes, it has been called indulgent, I don't think that criticism would stick to La Grande Bellezza. There is such a beauty and such a layering of themes there, coming together so satisfyingly... perfect, that I even watched it twice in cinema... which is something I almost never do.

very honorable mentions:
-Athina Rachel Tsangari, hasn't been very prolific, but everything she does is amazing. When the "weird greeks" came into the picture, everybody praised Yorgos Lanthimos (who is not bad), but seem to forget this equally unique and complex voice.
-Nicolas Winding Refn, I agree with Lonewolf that he has made his best work this decade. And again an example of a director I did not previously like, but the mastery of Drive is undeniable. His focus can pull a bit too much towards style, or his subject matter isn't very profound, to put it another way, but when that fits the subject so well like in Drive it can become more than just the sum of its parts (very similar to the perfect fit of Noe's shallowness to the nihilism of his masterpiece Irréversible in the previous decade).
- Bruno Dumont did his absolute best work at the start of the decade with Hors Satan and Camille Claudel 1915 and after that started to reinvent himself a bit, which has been a fascinating, if uncertain, journey so far.
- Olivier Assayas, a stable factor in French cinema with multiple favorites for me in the decade, not every film is as challenging or refreshing as one could hope, but I always like what he has to say.
- Eskil Vogt and Joachim Trier bring such psychological depth to their movies, elevating them high above the genre/concept they often work from. Thelma and Blind are stunning, Oslo 31 August is a moving update of Malle's Le Feu Follet. For me it did not surpass the original, making it a bit unnecessary, but for a lot of people it is their best work, so I would recommend that as well.
- Terrence Malick. while I'll always hold the Thin Red Line in high regard as a masterpiece and was initially very impressed by the Tree of Life, Malick has become a bit of a challenge with each new work for me. This is a good thing in one regard. He always makes me think. But I haven't been able to embrace his work as much anymore. Not sure if the many fanboys and copycat-directors are playing a role in this... turning his style into an empty gimmick, but he certainly is pushing himself towards that edge too. I would praise Song to Song and To the Wonder without hesitation though, and would also gladly re-watch and reevaluate his work in the years ahead.
- Terry Gilliam. Well established of course, but when you make two masterpieces like Zero Theorem and the Man Who Killed Don Quixote, you deserve to be mentioned!

and I'll close it of with debuting directors that haven't gotten many films under their belt yet, but everything they did shows great promise, great style and great originality:
- Aditya Vikram Sengupta, for Labour of Love and Jonaki
- Bas Devos for Violet, Hellhole and Ghost Tropic
Last edited by beavis on July 9th, 2020, 1:42 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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#816

Post by Onderhond » July 9th, 2020, 12:35 pm

Crawled through my database and got this list back:

(total 4*+/total 4.5*)
11/8 Sion Sono
09/3 Takashi Miike
05/3 Hiroyuki Tanaka
04/2 Mong-Hong Chung
04/2 Hiroyuki Seshita
04/2 Akiyuki Shinbo
04/2 Makoto Shinkai
05/0 Ho-Cheung Pang
05/0 Quentin Dupieux
04/0 Ryuichi Hiroki
04/0 Wilson Yip

That makes Sono the simple stand-outs of the 2010s for me. Miike a prolific 2nd (though not so many truly outstanding films, Tanaka an honorable third.
Seshita & Shinbo are anime directors who managed to land a spot because of some trilogy work. Shinkai is the third anime director, he definitely had his break-out period this decade.
Yip and Dupieux are clear genre directors.
Hiroki and Chung should be arthouse favorites, no idea why nobody is picking them up (anymore).
Pang is somewhat of a special case, jumping between different genres and sometimes making more serious dramas too.

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#817

Post by outdoorcats » July 9th, 2020, 1:57 pm

Overall the most impressive "auteur" directors to either emerge or become more prominent this decade were Barry Jenkins, Trey Edward Shutlz, Bi Gan, Céline Sciamma, Xavier Dolan, Ari Aster, Alice Rohrwacher and Kleber Mendonça Filho. And, almost wholly on the basis of The Wild Goose Lake, Yi'nan Diao.

Some already established directors that continued their winning streak were Paul Thomas Anderson, Jia Zhangke, Arnaud Desplechin, Apichatpong Weerasethakul, James Gray, Miguel Gomes, Olivier Assayas, and, yes, Quentin Tarantino. :P Sorry cinewest, but Django Unchained was a masterful revenge epic with one of the best patchwork soundtracks I've ever heard. I watched it twice in theaters.

re: OldAle1, it might have something to do with how personal he makes all his films, for example in Waves he based Ronald and Tyler's relationship on his own relationship with his father. I think he's good at working with actors to channel that. In Krisha he cast his own family in nearly all of the roles and got great performances out of all of them.
Last edited by outdoorcats on July 9th, 2020, 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#818

Post by blocho » July 9th, 2020, 2:14 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 7:45 am
blocho wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 5:52 am
I would put the Coens near the top, but I'm guessing most people would not. I think some people would mention Bong, though he's not my favorite.

And, of course, some people would argue for Nolan or Tarantino.
What are the films you would cite as outstanding by any of them in the 2010’s?

I like the Coen’s a lot, but only consider Llewyn Davis as outstanding in the past decade.
I wouldn't describe the Coens' work in the 2010s as outstanding when compared to their previous work. I think their entire career has been consistently excellent, and that includes their four features from the 2010s: True Grit, Inside Llewyn Davis, Hail Caesar, and The Ballad of Buster Scruggs.

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#819

Post by cinewest » July 9th, 2020, 2:19 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 12:08 pm
cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 5:31 am
So, if at least some people here agree that neither Villeneuve nor Scorsese were the best filmmakers of the 2010's, who was?

For me, it's easy to answer this question about the 2000's, as Michael Haneke made 5 outstanding movies that decade, and Von Trier followed closely with 4, but I can't think of anyone in the 2010's who made more than 3 stand outs, and some of them are not even on the list above.
I would agree that it is much harder to select the best director of the 10s, while Haneke is undoubtedly (for me anyways) the best of the 00s.

Personally I would make the case for Terrence Malick, but I realize that's a slightly unpopular take - I just low the way he took his style to its absolute purest and extreme form and brought a degree of passion to exploring the medium we haven't really seen elsewhere - of course with the more story-driven and generally preferred Tree of Life and A Hidden Life.

I could also make the case for Yorgos Lanthimos, who in my opinion has emerged as a new and well-established master director over the last decade. He has his own specific darkly comedic and bleak style, creates massive films you can keep discussing for a very long time and I generally don't think any other directors who debuted in the 2000s have arrived at his status (His two latest films are also contenders for my top 10 of the decade).

Beyond that I can only think of the two Andersons (both with 3 films) and maybe Sciamma as notable alternatives, though I'm sure some would also opt for Bong or perhaps Ceylan. There's also Tarantino, the Coens, the Dardennes and von Trier to consider.
I like what you say about Malick, though I didn't feel his films after Tree of Life fully worked, as very little stayed with me apart from flashes, which is what most of those films seemed like to me: memory flashes, more than substantive stories. That said, I have yet to see Hidden Life, which you ha been so keen on, and I absolutely love some of Malick's earlier films.

With Lanthimos, i haven't yet seen the last two, and though I thought Dogtooth was brilliant, I didn't think Alpes or The Lobster came close to that level. In terms of filmmakers who began in the 2000's and strike me as in their primes, I might add Lucretia Martel, though she only made one in the 2010's, and Andrey Zvyagintsev (though I haven't seen his latest), maybe Sergey Loznitsa, Sorrentino, maybe Carlos Reygades... and why not Guy Maddin?

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#820

Post by Lonewolf2003 » July 9th, 2020, 2:22 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 11:46 am
Thanks for hosting Peaceful, and interesting to see the dropouts. Especially surprised/sad about Goodbye to Language and Summer 1993 - and seeing just how many voters they had shows just how competitive this list is.
I'm honored to be mistaken for Peaceful :lol:

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#821

Post by cinewest » July 9th, 2020, 2:27 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 1:57 pm
Overall the most impressive "auteur" directors to either emerge or become more prominent this decade were Barry Jenkins, Trey Edward Shutlz, Bi Gan, Céline Sciamma, Xavier Dolan, Ari Aster, Alice Rohrwacher and Kleber Mendonça Filho. And, almost wholly on the basis of The Wild Goose Lake, Yi'nan Diao.

Some already established directors that continued their winning streak were Paul Thomas Anderson, Jia Zhangke, Arnaud Desplechin, Apichatpong Weerasethakul, James Gray, Miguel Gomes, Olivier Assayas, and, yes, Quentin Tarantino. :P Sorry cinewest, but Django Unchained was a masterful revenge epic with one of the best patchwork soundtracks I've ever heard. I watched it twice in theaters.

re: OldAle1, it might have something to do with how personal he makes all his films, for example in Waves he based Ronald and Tyler's relationship on his own relationship with his father. I think he's good at working with actors to channel that. In Krisha he cast his own family in nearly all of the roles and got great performances out of all of them.
A lot of interesting names, but the young auteurs haven't yet done enough to qualify as filmmaker of the decade, and none of the others (all likable to various extents apart from Tarantino) has made more than a couple this decade that really stand out for me.

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#822

Post by cinewest » July 9th, 2020, 3:00 pm

beavis wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 12:28 pm
analyzing my favorites and looking at the people who made multiple favorites for me, on top for this decade are most surely:

- Carlos Reygadas: master in making a scene last exactly as long as it needs to be, and making something very personal into something universal. With both Nuestro Tiempo and Post Tenebras Lux he has become a big favorite and modern master, overcoming the fact that I did not really like his early work! at all
- Pedro Costa: already established as a modern master, and an important voice for Portugese cultural heritage, but with Cavalo Dinheiro he made a monumental masterpiece in my eyes, it moved me profoundly like only seldom happens
- Apichatpong Weerasethakul: also well established for me before this decade, but he still made two absolute favorites in this time, and his major influence on young filmmakers across the world became so apparent, that his import cannot be overstated
- Sergey Loznitsa: very prolific in this decade, moving from documentary into fiction with impressive results and also not losing those documentary roots. I am not much of a documentary fan, but I love his work in that field almost as much as his fiction. He is always expressing art, besides expressing a message.
- Paolo Sorrentino: perfected his style. While I can understand that both Youth and Loro will seem like a bit too much style for some, or just a repeat of personal tropes, it has been called indulgent, I don't think that criticism would stick to La Grande Bellezza. There is such a beauty and such a layering of themes there, coming together so satisfyingly... perfect, that I even watched it twice in cinema... which is something I almost never do.

very honorable mentions:
-Athina Rachel Tsangari, hasn't been very prolific, but everything she does is amazing. When the "weird greeks" came into the picture, everybody praised Yorgos Lanthimos (who is not bad), but seem to forget this equally unique and complex voice.
-Nicolas Winding Refn, I agree with Lonewolf that he has made his best work this decade. And again an example of a director I did not previously like, but the mastery of Drive is undeniable. His focus can pull a bit too much towards style, or his subject matter isn't very profound, to put it another way, but when that fits the subject so well like in Drive it can become more than just the sum of its parts (very similar to the perfect fit of Noe's shallowness to the nihilism of his masterpiece Irréversible in the previous decade).
- Bruno Dumont did his absolute best work at the start of the decade with Hors Satan and Camille Claudel 1915 and after that started to reinvent himself a bit, which has been a fascinating, if uncertain, journey so far.
- Olivier Assayas, a stable factor in French cinema with multiple favorites for me in the decade, not every film is as challenging or refreshing as one could hope, but I always like what he has to say.
- Eskil Vogt and Joachim Trier bring such psychological depth to their movies, elevating them high above the genre/concept they often work from. Thelma and Blind are stunning, Oslo 31 August is a moving update of Malle's Le Feu Follet. For me it did not surpass the original, making it a bit unnecessary, but for a lot of people it is their best work, so I would recommend that as well.
- Terrence Malick. while I'll always hold the Thin Red Line in high regard as a masterpiece and was initially very impressed by the Tree of Life, Malick has become a bit of a challenge with each new work for me. This is a good thing in one regard. He always makes me think. But I haven't been able to embrace his work as much anymore. Not sure if the many fanboys and copycat-directors are playing a role in this... turning his style into an empty gimmick, but he certainly is pushing himself towards that edge too. I would praise Song to Song and To the Wonder without hesitation though, and would also gladly re-watch and reevaluate his work in the years ahead.
- Terry Gilliam. Well established of course, but when you make two masterpieces like Zero Theorem and the Man Who Killed Don Quixote, you deserve to be mentioned!

and I'll close it of with debuting directors that haven't gotten many films under their belt yet, but everything they did shows great promise, great style and great originality:
- Aditya Vikram Sengupta, for Labour of Love and Jonaki
- Bas Devos for Violet, Hellhole and Ghost Tropic
I concur with your top group, but don't like Winding-Refn's films (despite his obvious talent as an image maker) which strike me as sick0-perverse, minsogynst, and inauthentic, almost like a trashy version of David Lynch.

Here's what I wrote about Drive, which is tame compared to the 2 he has made since:

While Nils-Winding Refn clearly has "artistic ambitions," I don't find his films all that interesting in the long run. Both the story and characters in Drive are nothing more than sketches that have been utilized countless times before, and the only thing that made the film different, and the slightest bit interesting to me, was the director's cinematic style, which tapped into techniques (including a dash of subtle sensation) that are uncommon to films of this type.

Refn prefers using minimalist storytelling and slick styling to make superficial associations without providing anything of real substance to sink into or explore, opting instead for typical Hollywood action pathways in the end.

People have called the driver "enigmatic" and "mysterious," but the truth is, he only seems so because virtually no information is provided about him beyond a few hints, and his strength is only demonstrated in his superhuman ability to out-think and out perform everyone else with the chips on the line just like John Wayne.

The entire movie actually resembled a template for a video game or contemporary action comic book. Just consider what is given import in the film, as well as where, and through what it aspires to take us, moreover how it ends up: Neither story nor character development stray very far from a basic plot, and there is a long, violent conclusion (actually a series of violent incidents, one after another, that end up nihilistically leaving no man standing).

If you want to see a movie with some similarities that actually develops an authentic story and character, with a real sense of place, try Bullhead, from Belgium. In fact, I would argue that the most interesting cinema these days is not being made in English, though it is only seen and appreciated by tiny minority.

...Drive does work in several ways:

1) because Refn creates his own brand of stylish cinema by crossing in elements of mainstream cinema, combining "realism" and the "potboiler" with touches of Bergman, using an artsy technique that mixes long takes and silence with quick edits, sound, and fetishist action/violence in a way that titillates a movie goer who has never seen anything like it, much less in the context of a genre film.

2) as a post modern, deconstructionist take on the genre film, a la Jarmush (think Ghost Dog, or the more deconstructionist Limits Of Control, which I couldn't stand), Cronenberg (Eastern Promises and History Of Violence), even early Tarantino and the later-day Scorsese. References to films like Mann's, Thief, are spot on, but there are also numerous references to Peckinpah (and Steve McQueen) in particular (The Getaway), as well as to Sergio Leone, which not only give it support, but make its contemporary take/styling more than just derivative.

I wonder what Godard would think of it? After all, Breathless was the first deconstructed "cool, hard guy" film to be made, more than 50 years ago.

Problem is, there was not one thing about Drive that I have not already seen dozens of times in American movies, beginning with the method-actor characterizations of the 50's and 60's (Brando comes first to mind, but carries right on down through Clint Eastwood, and just about every Hollywood action anti-hero).

The driver with no name, who rarely speaks: A toothpick in his mouth tough guy (with a sensitive soul) who looks like a GQ model, and whose only expression other than stone face is a glib smile that's supposed to mean everything he doesn't express... I already said that Gosling borrows a lot from McQueen, but he also uses James Dean and the young Mickey Rourke, who, of course tapped the young Brando.

Problem is, with each reincarnation of this archetype the meaning gets diluted, until it becomes only a posture and nothing more, effective only in how it conjures up these other actors and their movies, while contributing nothing to the archetype it is alluding to.

Driver actually has no character of his own, only mannerisms, and there is nothing substantial about the film. It's only interesting in terms of all the movies and characters it references from Hollywood past, trimmed down and reliant upon familiar archetypes and stories, done up with a contemporary styling that blends art house cinema and Hollywood.

At times Refn's postmodern, playful stew works wonders, but there are also times when it backfires completely, such as when the Driver boards the elevator and kisses the object of his courtly love (who's nothing more than the object of a fairytale knight's devotion) for the first time before pushing her aside and not only murdering the hit man standing next to him but stomping him repeatedly as we hear his bones crack. How dashing! How manly! Cut to the loving face of his Madonna as she backs safely into the garage.

Bottom line is that there was just not enough "new material" to really captivate me much less enrich the bare-bones' story, and it ended up being not much different from all of the other movies built around dysfunctional males who can only find their way (and know how to survive) as warriors, by means of repeated acts of violence against whatever "bad guys" are threatening them, or some innocent member of society.

The only thing I really wondered about in Drive is what made Driver the way he was, or why everyone in the movie had to die except for the girl? Talk about self-defeating.... Half way into the film (once I fully understood what the director was doing) I could pretty much intuit everything that was going to happen scene by scene, moreover how it would be portrayed.

For me, despite a few moments of genuine brilliance, this film was ultimately not very satisfying, even somewhat pretentious.

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#823

Post by St. Gloede » July 9th, 2020, 3:08 pm

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 2:22 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 11:46 am
Thanks for hosting Peaceful, and interesting to see the dropouts. Especially surprised/sad about Goodbye to Language and Summer 1993 - and seeing just how many voters they had shows just how competitive this list is.
I'm honored to be mistaken for Peaceful :lol:
Oh FFS, I even checked ad make sure you were Lonewolf .... :facepalm:

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#824

Post by OldAle1 » July 9th, 2020, 3:20 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 1:57 pm
Overall the most impressive "auteur" directors to either emerge or become more prominent this decade were Barry Jenkins, Trey Edward Shutlz, Bi Gan, Céline Sciamma, Xavier Dolan, Ari Aster, Alice Rohrwacher and Kleber Mendonça Filho. And, almost wholly on the basis of The Wild Goose Lake, Yi'nan Diao.

Some already established directors that continued their winning streak were Paul Thomas Anderson, Jia Zhangke, Arnaud Desplechin, Apichatpong Weerasethakul, James Gray, Miguel Gomes, Olivier Assayas, and, yes, Quentin Tarantino. :P Sorry cinewest, but Django Unchained was a masterful revenge epic with one of the best patchwork soundtracks I've ever heard. I watched it twice in theaters.

re: OldAle1, it might have something to do with how personal he makes all his films, for example in Waves he based Ronald and Tyler's relationship on his own relationship with his father. I think he's good at working with actors to channel that. In Krisha he cast his own family in nearly all of the roles and got great performances out of all of them.
That's good, that last thing about Shults. Makes sense. I will have to prioritize his earlier films, sigh, so much to see...

Like most of the other names on your list - I've just seen the most recent films from Rohrwacher and Filho but they were impressive, especially the Rohrwacher. Can't say that Ari Aster does a whole lot for me so far but his films have at least been interesting and somewhat unusual genre takes if not wholly successful. Wasn't crazy about The Wild Goose Lake overall though I did like the look of it a lot and the almost total immersion in a slum sort of atmosphere for the purposes of a noir chase story - love it when American films do that sort of thing also and it doesn't happen often. Haven't seen any Miguel Gomes yet, or enough from Weerasthakul, and can't agree on QT though Django Unchained is definitely my favorite of his films since his first three. Probably my major priority from your list though should be to catch up on all the Jia films I haven't seen yet.

Beavis' list is cool as well - I'm glad to see his comment on Reygadas, that he likes the newer ones while not liking the earlier career. Only seen Stellet Licht myself and not much liked it, but have wondered for sure about his other work. Have seen very little from Costa and Loznitsa, definitely interested in seeing more. But can't say much positive about Refn on the basis of the two films I've seen. Several on that list that I haven't seen anything from including Trier, probably the best-known really contemporary European director that I've missed entirely so far.

And Onderhond's list is probably interesting also, but having only seen a significant amount from Shinkai, and a few from Sono including one from the past decade, I can't really say more.

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#825

Post by Lonewolf2003 » July 9th, 2020, 3:27 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 3:00 pm
beavis wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 12:28 pm
analyzing my favorites and looking at the people who made multiple favorites for me, on top for this decade are most surely:

- Carlos Reygadas: master in making a scene last exactly as long as it needs to be, and making something very personal into something universal. With both Nuestro Tiempo and Post Tenebras Lux he has become a big favorite and modern master, overcoming the fact that I did not really like his early work! at all
- Pedro Costa: already established as a modern master, and an important voice for Portugese cultural heritage, but with Cavalo Dinheiro he made a monumental masterpiece in my eyes, it moved me profoundly like only seldom happens
- Apichatpong Weerasethakul: also well established for me before this decade, but he still made two absolute favorites in this time, and his major influence on young filmmakers across the world became so apparent, that his import cannot be overstated
- Sergey Loznitsa: very prolific in this decade, moving from documentary into fiction with impressive results and also not losing those documentary roots. I am not much of a documentary fan, but I love his work in that field almost as much as his fiction. He is always expressing art, besides expressing a message.
- Paolo Sorrentino: perfected his style. While I can understand that both Youth and Loro will seem like a bit too much style for some, or just a repeat of personal tropes, it has been called indulgent, I don't think that criticism would stick to La Grande Bellezza. There is such a beauty and such a layering of themes there, coming together so satisfyingly... perfect, that I even watched it twice in cinema... which is something I almost never do.

very honorable mentions:
-Athina Rachel Tsangari, hasn't been very prolific, but everything she does is amazing. When the "weird greeks" came into the picture, everybody praised Yorgos Lanthimos (who is not bad), but seem to forget this equally unique and complex voice.
-Nicolas Winding Refn, I agree with Lonewolf that he has made his best work this decade. And again an example of a director I did not previously like, but the mastery of Drive is undeniable. His focus can pull a bit too much towards style, or his subject matter isn't very profound, to put it another way, but when that fits the subject so well like in Drive it can become more than just the sum of its parts (very similar to the perfect fit of Noe's shallowness to the nihilism of his masterpiece Irréversible in the previous decade).
- Bruno Dumont did his absolute best work at the start of the decade with Hors Satan and Camille Claudel 1915 and after that started to reinvent himself a bit, which has been a fascinating, if uncertain, journey so far.
- Olivier Assayas, a stable factor in French cinema with multiple favorites for me in the decade, not every film is as challenging or refreshing as one could hope, but I always like what he has to say.
- Eskil Vogt and Joachim Trier bring such psychological depth to their movies, elevating them high above the genre/concept they often work from. Thelma and Blind are stunning, Oslo 31 August is a moving update of Malle's Le Feu Follet. For me it did not surpass the original, making it a bit unnecessary, but for a lot of people it is their best work, so I would recommend that as well.
- Terrence Malick. while I'll always hold the Thin Red Line in high regard as a masterpiece and was initially very impressed by the Tree of Life, Malick has become a bit of a challenge with each new work for me. This is a good thing in one regard. He always makes me think. But I haven't been able to embrace his work as much anymore. Not sure if the many fanboys and copycat-directors are playing a role in this... turning his style into an empty gimmick, but he certainly is pushing himself towards that edge too. I would praise Song to Song and To the Wonder without hesitation though, and would also gladly re-watch and reevaluate his work in the years ahead.
- Terry Gilliam. Well established of course, but when you make two masterpieces like Zero Theorem and the Man Who Killed Don Quixote, you deserve to be mentioned!

and I'll close it of with debuting directors that haven't gotten many films under their belt yet, but everything they did shows great promise, great style and great originality:
- Aditya Vikram Sengupta, for Labour of Love and Jonaki
- Bas Devos for Violet, Hellhole and Ghost Tropic
I concur with your top group, but don't like Winding-Refn's films (despite his obvious talent as an image maker) which strike me as sick0-perverse, minsogynst, and inauthentic, almost like a trashy version of David Lynch.

Here's what I wrote about Drive, which is tame compared to the 2 he has made since:

While Nils-Winding Refn clearly has "artistic ambitions," I don't find his films all that interesting in the long run. Both the story and characters in Drive are nothing more than sketches that have been utilized countless times before, and the only thing that made the film different, and the slightest bit interesting to me, was the director's cinematic style, which tapped into techniques (including a dash of subtle sensation) that are uncommon to films of this type.

Refn prefers using minimalist storytelling and slick styling to make superficial associations without providing anything of real substance to sink into or explore, opting instead for typical Hollywood action pathways in the end.

People have called the driver "enigmatic" and "mysterious," but the truth is, he only seems so because virtually no information is provided about him beyond a few hints, and his strength is only demonstrated in his superhuman ability to out-think and out perform everyone else with the chips on the line just like John Wayne.

The entire movie actually resembled a template for a video game or contemporary action comic book. Just consider what is given import in the film, as well as where, and through what it aspires to take us, moreover how it ends up: Neither story nor character development stray very far from a basic plot, and there is a long, violent conclusion (actually a series of violent incidents, one after another, that end up nihilistically leaving no man standing).

If you want to see a movie with some similarities that actually develops an authentic story and character, with a real sense of place, try Bullhead, from Belgium. In fact, I would argue that the most interesting cinema these days is not being made in English, though it is only seen and appreciated by tiny minority.

...Drive does work in several ways:

1) because Refn creates his own brand of stylish cinema by crossing in elements of mainstream cinema, combining "realism" and the "potboiler" with touches of Bergman, using an artsy technique that mixes long takes and silence with quick edits, sound, and fetishist action/violence in a way that titillates a movie goer who has never seen anything like it, much less in the context of a genre film.

2) as a post modern, deconstructionist take on the genre film, a la Jarmush (think Ghost Dog, or the more deconstructionist Limits Of Control, which I couldn't stand), Cronenberg (Eastern Promises and History Of Violence), even early Tarantino and the later-day Scorsese. References to films like Mann's, Thief, are spot on, but there are also numerous references to Peckinpah (and Steve McQueen) in particular (The Getaway), as well as to Sergio Leone, which not only give it support, but make its contemporary take/styling more than just derivative.

I wonder what Godard would think of it? After all, Breathless was the first deconstructed "cool, hard guy" film to be made, more than 50 years ago.

Problem is, there was not one thing about Drive that I have not already seen dozens of times in American movies, beginning with the method-actor characterizations of the 50's and 60's (Brando comes first to mind, but carries right on down through Clint Eastwood, and just about every Hollywood action anti-hero).

The driver with no name, who rarely speaks: A toothpick in his mouth tough guy (with a sensitive soul) who looks like a GQ model, and whose only expression other than stone face is a glib smile that's supposed to mean everything he doesn't express... I already said that Gosling borrows a lot from McQueen, but he also uses James Dean and the young Mickey Rourke, who, of course tapped the young Brando.

Problem is, with each reincarnation of this archetype the meaning gets diluted, until it becomes only a posture and nothing more, effective only in how it conjures up these other actors and their movies, while contributing nothing to the archetype it is alluding to.

Driver actually has no character of his own, only mannerisms, and there is nothing substantial about the film. It's only interesting in terms of all the movies and characters it references from Hollywood past, trimmed down and reliant upon familiar archetypes and stories, done up with a contemporary styling that blends art house cinema and Hollywood.

At times Refn's postmodern, playful stew works wonders, but there are also times when it backfires completely, such as when the Driver boards the elevator and kisses the object of his courtly love (who's nothing more than the object of a fairytale knight's devotion) for the first time before pushing her aside and not only murdering the hit man standing next to him but stomping him repeatedly as we hear his bones crack. How dashing! How manly! Cut to the loving face of his Madonna as she backs safely into the garage.

Bottom line is that there was just not enough "new material" to really captivate me much less enrich the bare-bones' story, and it ended up being not much different from all of the other movies built around dysfunctional males who can only find their way (and know how to survive) as warriors, by means of repeated acts of violence against whatever "bad guys" are threatening them, or some innocent member of society.

The only thing I really wondered about in Drive is what made Driver the way he was, or why everyone in the movie had to die except for the girl? Talk about self-defeating.... Half way into the film (once I fully understood what the director was doing) I could pretty much intuit everything that was going to happen scene by scene, moreover how it would be portrayed.

For me, despite a few moments of genuine brilliance, this film was ultimately not very satisfying, even somewhat pretentious.
Your critisms aren't unwarranted. I can understand your points... But it still is the best movie of the decade. They just mattered very little to me, and in fact some of them are inherent to the kind of movie Refn wanted to make: a stylish post modern, deconstructionist take on the genre. So yes, it's not deep, it's not original and it does has stereotypical one-dimensional characters, but that all is part of the movie it is. While I've seen most of the elements of his cinematic style before I rarely seen it combined and executed as near to perfection as in Drive.

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#826

Post by OldAle1 » July 9th, 2020, 3:40 pm

Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 3:27 pm

Your critisms aren't unwarranted. I can understand your points... But it still is the best movie of the decade. They just mattered very little to me, and in fact some of them are inherent to the kind of movie Refn wanted to make: a stylish post modern, deconstructionist take on the genre. So yes, it's not deep, it's not original and it does has stereotypical one-dimensional characters, but that all is part of the movie it is.
That's really nicely put; even if I agree with cinewest's assessment of the film more than yours overall, what's important here is that it hits the spots that you care about, and I think that's true for (almost) all of us with our favorites, however much we might try to analyze them. Art is above all an emotional response and even if a person loves Stan Brakhage or Straub-Huillet more than Frank Capra or Giuseppe Tornatore, s/he probably is still getting some kind of personal, emotional experience out of these cold, rigorous experimentalists, along with the more academic and intellectual valuations that are probably being made. And many of us have films that on the surface wouldn't seem to fit into our personal criteria for what "great" is but that nonetheless do, in ways we might not always be able to articulate. I always love seeing a top list that has a few weird choices that don't seem to quite fit with the rest - tells me there's something very personal and specific going on, not just "these are the greatest and I love TSPDT or the Oscars", etc.

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#827

Post by beavis » July 9th, 2020, 3:42 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 3:20 pm
Beavis' list is cool as well - I'm glad to see his comment on Reygadas, that he likes the newer ones while not liking the earlier career. Only seen Stellet Licht myself and not much liked it, but have wondered for sure about his other work. Have seen very little from Costa and Loznitsa, definitely interested in seeing more. But can't say much positive about Refn on the basis of the two films I've seen. Several on that list that I haven't seen anything from including Trier, probably the best-known really contemporary European director that I've missed entirely so far.
hey, thanks!

Let's not get hang up on Refn. I obviously stand on the side of Lonewolf on this, that I can appreciate the mastery of Drive while not ignoring the fact that this is a genre exercise that won't do much for people without inclination towards that mode of cinema. I do have my reservations about other stuff he's done, but I can't deny I love a bit of genre and "sicko" stuff myself. I appreciate how Refn has championed both Jodorowski and Milligan. And there is a great potential for him to get even better I think.

Mostly though, I like my style to come with a lot of substance. So I can only hope some of the unknowns from my lists will lead you to interesting discoveries!


edit: regarding Reygadas. I gave Japon, Batalla en el Cielo and Stellet Licht all 3 out of 5 stars (PTL 5 and NT 4,5) which is a mark that can be described as "disappointing but showing some talent". I felt he was referencing Tarkovsky and Dreyer too much, without reaching the genuine spirituality of these masters... almost like he was only emulating the things he liked. At least that is what I remember as the main feeling I had on them, I would need to rewatch them... maybe... I had almost given up on him after Stellet Licht. But the unique look of Post Tenebras Lux made me curious, and needles to say I was bowled over with the originality and the personality he had poored into that!
Last edited by beavis on July 9th, 2020, 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#828

Post by OldAle1 » July 9th, 2020, 3:47 pm

Oh yeah, I'm not making any deeply anti-Refn statement here - merely that he's not very interesting to me, so far. I will probably give him another chance or two and of course if we get films in the cinema again (and I really think that is an "if" at least here in the US) and he makes something that looks up my alley, sure. I do appreciate heavily stylized films, even empty ones sometimes, just not his so much - he's sort of in the same category as Besson for me I guess. And my own interests certainly run towards crime/noir stuff as well, so Drive in particular is actually the kind of film that is made for me - just didn't quite work. But I've also gotten much more serious about the modern noir style over the last decade so it's certainly possible I'd get more out of it on a re-watch, or just appreciate the style more. Dunno.

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#829

Post by Fergenaprido » July 9th, 2020, 3:54 pm

For me, my current preferred directors of the decade are as follows (by average rating):

8.55 Christopher Nolan (4/4 seen)
8.25 Denis Villeneuve (4/6 seen)
8.08 Xavier Dolan (5/7 seen)
7.90 Taika Waititi (4/5 seen)

8.20 Sarah Polley (2/2 seen)
8.07 Jean-Marc Vallée (3/4 seen)
8.00 Pedro Almodóvar (3/4 seen)
8.00 Sam Mendes (3/3 seen)
7.93 Andrey Zvyagintsev (3/3 seen)

I left out some directors I rated highly but had only seen their franchise or Pixar films. Those top three are pretty solid for me, though, and I doubt any of the other directors will catch up to them for this decade (well, maybe Haigh will). I really wish Polley had the opportunity to make more films. :wub:

And there are a few I've only seen two of, but could make my list if the rest turn out to be just as good.

8.30 Andrew Haigh (2/4 seen)
8.30 Richard Linklater (2/6 seen)
8.10 Damien Chazelle (2/3 seen)
8.10 Toledano & Nakache (2/4 seen)
8.00 Cédric Klapisch (2/4 seen)
8.00 Steve McQueen (2/3 seen)
8.00 Céline Sciamma (2/3 seen)
7.90 Rian Johnson (2/3 seen)
7.90 Kim Nguyen (2/6 seen)
7.90 Ira Sachs (2/4 seen)
7.60 Alejandro González Iñárritu (2/3 seen, but I also need to rewatch Birdman)

That took way more time than I expected to figure out.

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#830

Post by mightysparks » July 9th, 2020, 3:59 pm

Drive looked pretty and was ok but the script was so laughably cringey and bad I couldn’t really get past its awfulness. Still don’t understand how it’s so popular.
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#831

Post by outdoorcats » July 9th, 2020, 4:23 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 2:27 pm
outdoorcats wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 1:57 pm
Overall the most impressive "auteur" directors to either emerge or become more prominent this decade were Barry Jenkins, Trey Edward Shutlz, Bi Gan, Céline Sciamma, Xavier Dolan, Ari Aster, Alice Rohrwacher and Kleber Mendonça Filho. And, almost wholly on the basis of The Wild Goose Lake, Yi'nan Diao.

Some already established directors that continued their winning streak were Paul Thomas Anderson, Jia Zhangke, Arnaud Desplechin, Apichatpong Weerasethakul, James Gray, Miguel Gomes, Olivier Assayas, and, yes, Quentin Tarantino. :P Sorry cinewest, but Django Unchained was a masterful revenge epic with one of the best patchwork soundtracks I've ever heard. I watched it twice in theaters.

re: OldAle1, it might have something to do with how personal he makes all his films, for example in Waves he based Ronald and Tyler's relationship on his own relationship with his father. I think he's good at working with actors to channel that. In Krisha he cast his own family in nearly all of the roles and got great performances out of all of them.
A lot of interesting names, but the young auteurs haven't yet done enough to qualify as filmmaker of the decade, and none of the others (all likable to various extents apart from Tarantino) has made more than a couple this decade that really stand out for me.
It's about quality, not quantity :D

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#832

Post by OldAle1 » July 9th, 2020, 4:32 pm

outdoorcats wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 4:23 pm


It's about quality, not quantity :D
And few can deliver both at the same time, though I'd note that many of Onderhond's faves are extremely productive, and Lav Diaz has made 11 solo-directed features clocking in at just over 47 hours total in the past decade...

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#833

Post by blocho » July 9th, 2020, 4:46 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 3:00 pm
I concur with your top group, but don't like Winding-Refn's films (despite his obvious talent as an image maker) which strike me as sick0-perverse, minsogynst, and inauthentic, almost like a trashy version of David Lynch.

Here's what I wrote about Drive, which is tame compared to the 2 he has made since:
That was an epic takedown of Drive, and I agreed with every point you made.

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#834

Post by Lonewolf2003 » July 9th, 2020, 4:48 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 3:40 pm
Lonewolf2003 wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 3:27 pm

Your critisms aren't unwarranted. I can understand your points... But it still is the best movie of the decade. They just mattered very little to me, and in fact some of them are inherent to the kind of movie Refn wanted to make: a stylish post modern, deconstructionist take on the genre. So yes, it's not deep, it's not original and it does has stereotypical one-dimensional characters, but that all is part of the movie it is.
That's really nicely put; even if I agree with cinewest's assessment of the film more than yours overall, what's important here is that it hits the spots that you care about, and I think that's true for (almost) all of us with our favorites, however much we might try to analyze them. Art is above all an emotional response and even if a person loves Stan Brakhage or Straub-Huillet more than Frank Capra or Giuseppe Tornatore, s/he probably is still getting some kind of personal, emotional experience out of these cold, rigorous experimentalists, along with the more academic and intellectual valuations that are probably being made. And many of us have films that on the surface wouldn't seem to fit into our personal criteria for what "great" is but that nonetheless do, in ways we might not always be able to articulate. I always love seeing a top list that has a few weird choices that don't seem to quite fit with the rest - tells me there's something very personal and specific going on, not just "these are the greatest and I love TSPDT or the Oscars", etc.
That's why I find Drive always a very difficult film to talk about. Cause when I rationally analyze the movie I can understand many of the criticism against it. But it's such an audiovisual emotional experience for me, that I can't put into written words why it works so near perfect for me. But like beavis said let's not get hang up on Refn (again).

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#835

Post by cinewest » July 9th, 2020, 4:59 pm

blocho wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 4:46 pm
cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 3:00 pm
I concur with your top group, but don't like Winding-Refn's films (despite his obvious talent as an image maker) which strike me as sick0-perverse, minsogynst, and inauthentic, almost like a trashy version of David Lynch.

Here's what I wrote about Drive, which is tame compared to the 2 he has made since:
That was an epic takedown of Drive, and I agreed with every point you made.
I appreciate the compliment and camaraderie :cheers:

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#836

Post by Lakigigar » July 9th, 2020, 5:33 pm

Asghar Farhadi, NWR, Sion Sono, Safdie brothers, Dardenne brothers, Adam Wingard, Russo brothers, González Iñárritu are highlights of the decade so far from what i've seen.

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#837

Post by Cocoa » July 9th, 2020, 6:03 pm

Christian Petzold is the best director of the 2010s for me with three films (Transit, Phoenix, Barbara). There are a bunch of directors with two films on my list and there are a few that have two films + a short in an anthology film. I'm assuming Céline Sciamma would probably have a good chance at tying for the top spot if I had seen Tomboy and Portrait of a Lady on Fire.

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#838

Post by matthewscott8 » July 9th, 2020, 7:07 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 4:32 pm
outdoorcats wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 4:23 pm


It's about quality, not quantity :D
And few can deliver both at the same time, though I'd note that many of Onderhond's faves are extremely productive, and Lav Diaz has made 11 solo-directed features clocking in at just over 47 hours total in the past decade...
Yeah this is the issue. I mean I'd love to say Shane Carruth was the best director of the 2010s but he only made 1 film. I've loved both the PTAs I've seen, but waiting to see Phantom Thread before I can throw his name in, only 3 films! Panos Cosmatos - 2 films. Lisandro Alonso - 1 film.

Another issue is Sion Sono, Whispering Star and Tokyo Tribe are 2 of my faves of the decade but some of his other stuff just makes me cringe.

I don't know any directors that I would say made lots of good films in the 10s. I like the passion projects that have been years in the making.

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#839

Post by mathiasa » July 9th, 2020, 9:07 pm

Great list. Will work a bit on it. Too bad I couldn‘t participate this time, I had/have a summer fever or something like that.

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#840

Post by cinewest » July 10th, 2020, 12:58 am

outdoorcats wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 4:23 pm
cinewest wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 2:27 pm
outdoorcats wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 1:57 pm
Overall the most impressive "auteur" directors to either emerge or become more prominent this decade were Barry Jenkins, Trey Edward Shutlz, Bi Gan, Céline Sciamma, Xavier Dolan, Ari Aster, Alice Rohrwacher and Kleber Mendonça Filho. And, almost wholly on the basis of The Wild Goose Lake, Yi'nan Diao.

Some already established directors that continued their winning streak were Paul Thomas Anderson, Jia Zhangke, Arnaud Desplechin, Apichatpong Weerasethakul, James Gray, Miguel Gomes, Olivier Assayas, and, yes, Quentin Tarantino. :P Sorry cinewest, but Django Unchained was a masterful revenge epic with one of the best patchwork soundtracks I've ever heard. I watched it twice in theaters.

re: OldAle1, it might have something to do with how personal he makes all his films, for example in Waves he based Ronald and Tyler's relationship on his own relationship with his father. I think he's good at working with actors to channel that. In Krisha he cast his own family in nearly all of the roles and got great performances out of all of them.
A lot of interesting names, but the young auteurs haven't yet done enough to qualify as filmmaker of the decade, and none of the others (all likable to various extents apart from Tarantino) has made more than a couple this decade that really stand out for me.
It's about quality, not quantity :D
I hear you, and I like the majority of the filmmakers you mentioned, but my question was, "who is the filmmaker of the decade?," and I spoke about last decade as reference. Your top group is a great short list for "emerging director of the decade," but did anyone in your second list make 3 or more top 100 films, for example?

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