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Rankdown II - Best Picture Nominees ('09-'19) (Round 4, #61-#47)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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OldAle1
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Re: Rankdown II - Best Picture Nominees ('09-'19) (Round 1, #98-#84)

#81

Post by OldAle1 » June 25th, 2020, 3:15 pm

I like jazz a lot though I'm no expert. And perhaps Damien Chazelle, Justin Hurwitz and some of the other folks involved with Whiplash aren't either, though many of them studied it and played it professionally, so I think they know more than me, if probably a lot less than some more high profile jazz musicians, critics, etc. Don't much care - and I've read the article blocho links (more than once) and disagree pretty strongly with it, though I don't feel much like getting into it now as I haven't seen the film since it came out and didn't write anything about it then (or if I did, I can't find it easily now. Why haven't I bothered to retrieve that drive from my storage unit with a lot of writings backed up on it yet? Lazy fucker even when I have nothing else to do...)

But I digress. 3 of my probable top 10 have just been killed in this round and the more I think about it, the more likely it seems to me that overall my favorites aren't going to get much love, and the films I despise will probably go farther than I might have expected. But you never know, and I'm not very familiar with the tastes of a lot of people on this rankdown, so it's still all up in the air. As it should be I suppose.

So as much as I'd love to be able to veto Whiplash and Birdman, I know they both have some fans here as they've appeared (quite highly in the case of the former) on our 2010s list, and maybe somebody else will rescue one or both. Why save your vetos in a silly game? The third film though is pretty new, and I don't have the slightest idea if it has any fans besides me, so I'll stand up for it. Fuck all ya haters. :lol:

So I'll veto Little Women, my second-favorite of all the films here and my favorite film from 2019.

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#82

Post by sol » June 25th, 2020, 3:20 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 3:15 pm
So I'll veto Little Women, my second-favorite of all the films here and my favorite film from 2019.
Correctly predicted. B) Big question now is whether mighty will try to cut it next round (since I can't cut it twice in a row) or whether Ale will have to wait until the third round of this game to use his last veto to save it again. :P
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#83

Post by Onderhond » June 25th, 2020, 3:22 pm

shugs wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 3:11 pm
I'm cutting War Horse. It's one of those rare movies I haven't finished. Way too cheesy, even by Spielberg standards. :shrug:
This was high on my list for cutting, but I was pretty sure someone else would do the honors. I don't think that much of the Academy to begin with, but this was an all-time low, even for them.

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#84

Post by OldAle1 » June 25th, 2020, 3:31 pm

sol wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 3:20 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 3:15 pm
So I'll veto Little Women, my second-favorite of all the films here and my favorite film from 2019.
Correctly predicted. B) Big question now is whether mighty will try to cut it next round (since I can't cut it twice in a row) or whether Ale will have to wait until the third round of this game to use his last veto to save it again. :P
You think way too much about strategy, but maybe the gaming part of this is more important to you than me; I'm most interested in how people justify their dislikes frankly, because it gives me a better idea of peoples' tastes, especially those who don't typically write much about anything. I already know that my tastes - in this area at least - are as far removed from others' as anybody's; my next two cuts will likely be vetoed right away and are certainly better-liked generally than most (any?) of my own favorites. Although, again, I don't know everybody's taste within this particular group of 15. While it is nice to see other people liking some of the same films, it's not very meaningful when we're talking about a bunch of movies that will all live on because they were nominated for Oscars, regardless of whether or not we as a group approve.

If in fact it is your most-hated film, then by all means cut it again, but if you're just doing it to kill my veto, I wouldn't bother if I were you. I can't imagine it lasting to the last couple of rounds in any case, for a number of reasons.

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#85

Post by OldAle1 » June 25th, 2020, 3:33 pm

shugs wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 3:11 pm
I'm cutting War Horse. It's one of those rare movies I haven't finished. Way too cheesy, even by Spielberg standards. :shrug:
The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
The Blind Side
District 9
An Education
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
Inception
The Kids Are All Right
The King's Speech
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Midnight in Paris
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
War Horse
Amour
Argo
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Les Miserables
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Silver Linings Playbook
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dllas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Nebraska
Philomana
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Boyhood
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Whiplash
Selma
American Sniper
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Brooklyn
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hacksaw Ridge
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Lion
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
Phantom Thread
The Post
The Shape of Water
Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
BlacKkKlansman
Black Panther
Bohemian Rhapsody
The Favourite
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Vice
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Jojo Rabbit
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (2 vetoes left)
3. beasterne (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (2 vetoes left)
7. PGonzalez (2 vetoes left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (2 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (2 vetoes left)
Ooh, another one I haven't seen, cool. If there are only 1 or 2 left unseen by the time we get to the last 20-25 I'm gonna try to catch them, so the fewer choices of likely crappy films I have, the better. :cheers:

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#86

Post by sol » June 25th, 2020, 3:43 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 3:31 pm
If in fact it is your most-hated film, then by all means cut it again, but if you're just doing it to kill my veto, I wouldn't bother if I were you.
Well, as mentioned somewhere above, I don't have any 'dislikes' from this crop of Best Picture nominees, so I can't say that I really hate any of them. But yeah, Little Women is certainly among the four or five films in the competition that did the very least for me. I think I have one 5/10 left on the list, and I'll try to get rid of that next round; everything else including Little Women is a 6 or above for me. And it's not so much about killing your veto, but knowing that like Onderhond and 2001 last round, I'll need at least three tries if I want to exclude it.

That said, going on what you've said above, it is tempting to save Birdman if it wasn't so cautious about throwing vetos around so early into things. :unsure:
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#87

Post by beasterne » June 25th, 2020, 3:49 pm

The first veto is played! Little Women is back in the game (l)

There have been some really bold cuts already, and we're still in the first round. It just goes to show that the movies that make it deep in these sorts of games have to really be something special, because if even one player doesn't like a film it's in danger.

Unless a veto is played, RIP to Whiplash, Birdman, King's Speech, 1917, and Les Miserables (A favorite of mine for sentimental reasons)--gone too soon!

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#88

Post by cinewest » June 25th, 2020, 3:51 pm

The only way I can see how to play this game is as if it were Reality TV competition, especially if your taste varies too much from the mean (which means you may not have any allies). Consider your vetoes like immunity bracelets, and consider the best strategy to see something you really like to the final vote.

Some may not like the game to be played this way, but then I would suggest that they probably enjoy a lot more of the choices being made another way and don't have to fight tooth and nail to see a film they love make it to the vote.
Last edited by cinewest on June 25th, 2020, 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#89

Post by jeff_v » June 25th, 2020, 3:55 pm

Pretty good cuts so far. I like Little Women, so glad it got a reprieve. And Tree of Life is great, but last game I used my vetoes too early and regretted it. I have a couple other movies I need to protect.

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#90

Post by OldAle1 » June 25th, 2020, 3:56 pm

sol wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 3:43 pm


That said, going on what you've said above, it is tempting to save Birdman if it wasn't so cautious about throwing vetos around so early into things. :unsure:
See, this is where it gets tricky to me. Thing is, you might think that the film(s) you most want to save will get vetoed by somebody else if cut - and you might also think that a film that is a little-less favorite might not get vetoed, and you might have to do it yourself. It's this kind of judgement call that's the most fascinating to me; obviously if a film is somebody's clear favorite of the group they're likely going to try to save it - but what if it's the clear favorite of 3 people, and they each assume that one of the others will use a veto? In the case of Whiplash I'm pretty sure without bothering to look that it was in the top 25 or 50 of the decade poll last year, which is an indication that quite a lot of folks love it, and it's likely that some of them are in this rankdown, and there's at least a decent chance that it's a top favorite for 1 or 2 folks here - so it's got a moderate chance of getting saved this round. Birdman I would guess is slightly less-loved, though again I don't know for sure, so maybe not so likely. Maybe your veto is the key! And maybe whatever your favorite is will be safer than most because it has lots of fans, I don't know.

Anyway it's that part of the thinking about this that's interesting to me, though again I don't really care about playing strategically (probably why I was never good at Risk or other similar board games). I suppose the person that really knows the taste of everybody else would have an edge here, rather like knowing how everybody else plays poker.

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#91

Post by jeroeno » June 25th, 2020, 4:23 pm

Quick cut from my phone: The Irishman

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#92

Post by Smoover » June 25th, 2020, 4:51 pm

I am Using my Veto for The Tree of Life. Maybe its wasted, but its my favourite movie of the whole bunch.

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#93

Post by PGonzalez » June 25th, 2020, 4:52 pm

I was trying to save my vetoes for later, but I'll go ahead and use the first to save The Irishman. Elia Suleiman, when he chose it as one of his favorite films of the decade, said that The Irishman "touched him deeply due to its sincerity", and films with a modicum of sincerity are pretty rare in this list.

P.S.: And Smoover saved The Tree of Life! That's pretty cool, I'm willing to use my second veto to save it again two rounds from now since it's also probably my favorite from the whole list.

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#94

Post by jeff_v » June 25th, 2020, 4:55 pm

Good job, guys.

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#95

Post by Nathan Treadway » June 25th, 2020, 5:00 pm

I'm vetoing 1917. This is way too early in the game for that masterpiece.

I'll cut An Education. Not that I disliked it (there really isn't any I dislike here) but because it was forgettable, and I remember nothing about it.

(Posting from my phone, so I'll edit everything else in later)

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#96

Post by OldAle1 » June 25th, 2020, 5:17 pm

Didn't love 1917 but don't quite agree with the comment above that it's another "war is like a videogame" thing. Well, maybe you can argue that about the visuals, but content-wise I can think of at least two other WWII films among this group that are more juvenile and "isn't war cool" than that one.

Glad to see Tree of Life and The Irishman come back though I'd be surprised if the latter sticks around that long, I remember several fairly negative comments about it from folks here when it came out.

I liked An Education but...yeah, I don't remember much about it either, and there are several other films of that vintage that I saw just once that I do remember quite well. I'm sure a lot of my potential cuts later will be in that "mm, it was ok but I just don't give a shit about keeping it and why was it up for awards?" category.

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#97

Post by blocho » June 25th, 2020, 5:41 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 5:17 pm
I'm sure a lot of my potential cuts later will be in that "mm, it was ok but I just don't give a shit about keeping it and why was it up for awards?" category.
That's my reaction to most of the movies on this list. There are probably about 20-30 movies I really like, and maybe 10-15 I really dislike. But most of them are just a big shrug.

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#98

Post by beasterne » June 25th, 2020, 5:51 pm

All of the cuts have been made for Round 1! And 4 vetoes have already been played, including 3 for 2019 films, very interesting.

We'll take a 24 hour break to give everyone a chance to veto any of the other cut films from this round. Round 2 will begin tomorrow, 6/26 at 5:00 pm GMT.

I've updated the lists below:

The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
The Blind Side
District 9
An Education
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
Inception
The Kids Are All Right
The King's Speech
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Midnight in Paris
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
War Horse
Amour
Argo
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Les Miserables
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Silver Linings Playbook
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dallas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Nebraska
Philomena
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Boyhood
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Whiplash
Selma
American Sniper
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Brooklyn
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hacksaw Ridge
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Lion
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
Phantom Thread
The Post
The Shape of Water
Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri
BlacKkKlansman
Black Panther
Bohemian Rhapsody
The Favourite
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Vice
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Jojo Rabbit
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (1 veto left)
3. beasterne (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (1 veto left)
7. PGonzalez (1 veto left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (2 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (1 veto left)

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#99

Post by AB537 » June 25th, 2020, 6:00 pm

I'm also in the camp of not really disliking much that's available in this pool, so am mostly cutting things that were just okay for me rather than really painful to watch. And am also glad to see 1917 and The Irishman revived.

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#100

Post by OldAle1 » June 25th, 2020, 6:14 pm

I don't dislike many either and only the one I chose this round counts as something I suffered a really visceral and completely negative reaction to - though a couple of others are close, and one of them I suspect I'll really hate if I ever watch it again. But I do have loads of films I love here, and many others that I like a lot. I think in my case seeing everything in the cinema - all but 3 of the films I've seen from the list - makes a big difference, I have always tended to rate stuff higher if seen on the big screen. It's a tendency I've been aware of for a long time but don't seem to be able to correct; I think a good chunk of the films in the 7-9 rating range would probably rate a point lower had I seen them on video first; this is also why I try to re-watch a fair number of films in the cinema - to see if my initial judgements were right. Given how rarely I re-rate something down after a second theatrical viewing though, maybe I'm right to give out all those high ratings? Then again I only see maybe 2-4 films more than once per year so I guess I"m just a lot more choosy in that area.

It's funny because I feel a lot of folks have the opposite experience - they are more harsh towards something that have to pay money and drag themselves out of the house to see. Capitalism wins!

But it's all just in our fucking minds when it comes right down to it.

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#101

Post by blocho » June 25th, 2020, 7:32 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 6:14 pm
But it's all just in our fucking minds when it comes right down to it.
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#102

Post by toromash » June 25th, 2020, 8:03 pm

I will try to do the right thing and veto Batman. The only thing i know is not to veto anything Onderhond attacks (sorry tToL). should change his name to Onderhaunt. Every film is haunted until it gives its last breath

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#103

Post by AB537 » June 25th, 2020, 11:12 pm

toromash wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 8:03 pm
I will try to do the right thing and veto Batman. The only thing i know is not to veto anything Onderhond attacks (sorry tToL). should change his name to Onderhaunt. Every film is haunted until it gives its last breath
Are you vetoing Birdman?

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#104

Post by blocho » June 25th, 2020, 11:14 pm

Toro wrote Batman. I, for one, appreciate the dadaist sensibility behind vetoing a movie that's not on the list. :D

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#105

Post by OldAle1 » June 25th, 2020, 11:40 pm

blocho wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 11:14 pm
Toro wrote Batman. I, for one, appreciate the dadaist sensibility behind vetoing a movie that's not on the list. :D
:banana:

This is the perfect comment to first see on coming back here after watching a Buñuel film.

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#106

Post by mightysparks » June 25th, 2020, 11:44 pm

The Tree of Life is my most hated movie on this list so you don’t just have to worry about Onderhond on that one...
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#107

Post by matthewscott8 » June 25th, 2020, 11:48 pm

Heh, just saw his. I am the anti-Oscars guy. The only film nominated between 2009-2019 that I actually like is The Tree of Life, after that it's a whole load of ordinary for me. Worse than a random selection of movies. Whatever the Oscar formula is, it's ipecac to me.

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#108

Post by cinewest » June 26th, 2020, 12:01 am

toromash wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 8:03 pm
I will try to do the right thing and veto Batman. The only thing i know is not to veto anything Onderhond attacks (sorry tToL). should change his name to Onderhaunt. Every film is haunted until it gives its last breath
I like the way Onderhond always converts to "underhand" on my automatic spell-check, and wonder if he meant it that way.

So are you really bringing Birdman back, or is that another wordplay?

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#109

Post by cinewest » June 26th, 2020, 12:04 am

It would be awesome if both Tree of Life and Birdman escape round one cuts and I really can't figure how two of the most ambitious and unique works of cinema on the list have attracted such disdain from cinephiles.

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#110

Post by toromash » June 26th, 2020, 12:12 am

I of course meant Birdman given that Keaton played Batman before. Bad joke apparently.

On a side note regarding the video game argument. I haven't seen 1917, but i disagree with the statement. If 1917 is a video game then Saving Private Ryan is also a videogame. I have played the intro various times. Then Inception could also be considered a videogame, or any other action film for that matter. Seems like an empty argument for not liking a film, and disrespectful to video games as an artform

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#111

Post by blocho » June 26th, 2020, 12:18 am

Was there a video game tie-in for any movie on this list? I remember those video games appearing regularly for every expensive studio movie back in the day. I'm not sure if it still happens. Certainly, I would expect every Spielberg movie to have as many commercial tie-ins as possible. There must have been Lincoln and War Horse video games, right?

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#112

Post by mightysparks » June 26th, 2020, 12:24 am

I liked 1917 well enough but it felt like a video game because of the way the story and dialogue flowed, the camera placement, and particularly the way certain things conveniently happened. Saving Private Ryan and Inception have problems but they feel and work like films. I think the ‘one shot’ trick is partly what makes it feel video gamey. There were so many times when I felt like it was coming out a cutscene and I needed to react but then it was followed by another cutscene etc. I don’t think it’s disrespectful to video games, I love them too, but they do have a very different feel and structure to films.
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#113

Post by OldAle1 » June 26th, 2020, 12:55 am

cinewest wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 12:04 am
I really can't figure how two of the most ambitious and unique works of cinema on the list have attracted such disdain from cinephiles.
Maybe you need to use the new maths.

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#114

Post by cinewest » June 26th, 2020, 12:56 am

matthewscott8 wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 11:48 pm
Heh, just saw his. I am the anti-Oscars guy. The only film nominated between 2009-2019 that I actually like is The Tree of Life, after that it's a whole load of ordinary for me. Worse than a random selection of movies. Whatever the Oscar formula is, it's ipecac to me.
I pretty much agree, Mathew. This list is full of very ordinary movies, slightly above mediocre at best, yet some of the ones being put on the fire from the get go are among the only ones differentiating themselves from the pack by reaching for something atypical.
Last edited by cinewest on June 26th, 2020, 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#115

Post by cinewest » June 26th, 2020, 2:24 am

OldAle1 wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 12:55 am
cinewest wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 12:04 am
I really can't figure how two of the most ambitious and unique works of cinema on the list have attracted such disdain from cinephiles.
Maybe you need to use the new maths.
Seems more like old fashioned, pre-calculator math being used by people probably considerably younger than I am

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#116

Post by blocho » June 26th, 2020, 3:47 am

OldAle1 wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 12:55 am
Maybe you need to use the new maths.
Image

Sorry. I'll stop.

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Onderhond
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#117

Post by Onderhond » June 26th, 2020, 4:46 am

mightysparks wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 11:44 pm
The Tree of Life is my most hated movie on this list so you don’t just have to worry about Onderhond on that one...
I'm prohibited from cutting it the next round, so you know what to do :ph43r:
cinewest wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 12:01 am
I like the way Onderhond always converts to "underhand" on my automatic spell-check, and wonder if he meant it that way.
It's in fact a rather literal translation from Underdog in Dutch. Under = onder, dog = hond. If I'd been born a bit more to the south, I'd probably be Souschien. I've had it for more than 20 years now. Apart from the fact that I liked the wordplay, it's also a perfect handle as it's usually always available when signing up for an online service :D

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cinewest
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#118

Post by cinewest » June 26th, 2020, 5:07 am

Onderhond wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 4:46 am
mightysparks wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 11:44 pm
The Tree of Life is my most hated movie on this list so you don’t just have to worry about Onderhond on that one...
I'm prohibited from cutting it the next round, so you know what to do :ph43r:
cinewest wrote:
June 26th, 2020, 12:01 am
I like the way Onderhond always converts to "underhand" on my automatic spell-check, and wonder if he meant it that way.
It's in fact a rather literal translation from Underdog in Dutch. Under = onder, dog = hond. If I'd been born a bit more to the south, I'd probably be Souschien. I've had it for more than 20 years now. Apart from the fact that I liked the wordplay, it's also a perfect handle as it's usually always available when signing up for an online service :D
I like it too, and it fits you to a T.

As for the collective persecution of films operating outside the box, it strikes me as a bit Taliban like.

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cinewest
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#119

Post by cinewest » June 26th, 2020, 6:21 am

Smoover wrote:
June 25th, 2020, 4:51 pm
I am Using my Veto for The Tree of Life. Maybe its wasted, but its my favourite movie of the whole bunch.
My faith in the players of this game has just been reinstated, if only for the moment

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jeroeno
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#120

Post by jeroeno » June 26th, 2020, 3:02 pm

I liked Billboards and Whiplash a lot but not enough to veto their cuts. The rest of the remaining cuts this round are fine with me.

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