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Rankdown II - Best Picture Nominees ('09-'19) (Round 8 starting soon!)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Re: Rankdown II - Best Picture Nominees ('09-'19) (Round 2, #88-#75)

#201

Post by cinewest » July 1st, 2020, 3:45 am

mightysparks wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 3:36 am
It’s not clear to me what attracts me, I’m constantly surprised. It’s often more obvious what I won’t like but I just never know. I might even like Tree of Life now. At the time I’d heard it compared to 2001, so it was entirely possible it could’ve been a masterpiece. I also tend to go into films quite blind so I don’t have any expectations.
Just look at your film ratings, and you should be able to recognize some uniform characteristics to what kinds of films you like and don't like.

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#202

Post by mightysparks » July 1st, 2020, 3:48 am

Not really. Probably 70% of films I think I’ll at least like, I don’t. And films I think I won’t like, I probably like 50% of the time. easier to just try and experience everything. Plus just coz I don’t love something doesn’t mean it was a waste of time. My tastes have also changed a bit over the last few years, whereas I watched the majority of films in my early 20s.
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#203

Post by brokenface » July 1st, 2020, 6:45 am

sol wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 11:20 pm
I have been wondering about Avatar. One of few unseen films from me on the list because I always thought it looked subpar. Guess it has more love than I imagined...
I am surprised that's made it this far (along with a few others) but not being axed yet doesn't mean loved. Just means most people have found 2 films they dislike more or they are playing tactical. I reckon plenty of stuff is still there out of sheer indifference

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#204

Post by Onderhond » July 1st, 2020, 8:13 am

blocho wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 2:04 am
Yeah, that leads to a good question. Ondy, I once asked you why you watched so many Scorsese movies when you disliked almost all of them, and you said that you thought it was worthwhile seeing movies even if you didn't anticipate a positive reaction. I admire that attitude, but how do you not end up kind of hating movies if you watch so many that you dislike?
Also a reply to cinewest's question:

The often unseen truth is that I also love a lot of films, but since they are rarely talked about the negative tends to dominate. I currently have around 1146 favorites, which isn't too bad I think. But only 417 (36.4%) are official and only 188 (16.4%) are in 3 official lists or more.

I'm also way more used to being subjected to media I don't like than most people. The world I live in doesn't really cater to my tastes, so from a very early age I've grown accustomed to listening to music I dislike and watching film/TV I dislike. When I'm hosting my own birthday party for example, I can't put on the music I like, because people would just run away. While my rating reflects what I feel about a film, it doesn't necessarily represents the same reaction most people have to things they dislike. I'm perfectly fine sitting through most of my 1* films or listening to music I don't give 2 cents about. Otherwise my life would be unbearable :D

I'm also not a very resentful person, which may explain why I still begin most films with the proper enthusiasm, even though all signs point to me ending up disliking a film. For example, I've been genuinely excited for the past 8 Star Wars films, but didn't like a single one of them. I honestly find this a bit weird myself, but I guess it might just be one of my coping mechanisms.

Sometimes it results in pleasant discoveries, but truth be told, they are quite rare. It does give me the necessary experience and knowledge to participate in film communities though, which is the other part of my film hobby that I really like. While it may not be worth it to others and while it may not be fair in theory, having seen certain films is a realistic requirement for acceptance in most film communities, even though I've long learned that there's no pleasing everyone.

Circling back to Tree of Life (because of a particular someone's hang-up), when I watched it I had only seen Malick's The Thin Red Line (3.0*), which I appreciated for its style (despite not being a big fan of war films). Tree of Life is also a film that could've just as well ended up in my 4* list, so people quick enough to judge that it's clearly not a film for me are probably unfamiliar with some of the films in my list of favorites. B)

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#205

Post by mightysparks » July 1st, 2020, 8:18 am

Onderhond wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 8:13 am
When I'm hosting my own birthday party for example, I can't put on the music I like, because people would just run away. While my rating reflects what I feel about a film, it doesn't necessarily represents the same reaction most people have to things they dislike. I'm perfectly fine sitting through most of my 1* films or listening to music I don't give 2 cents about. Otherwise my life would be unbearable :D
I don't even listen to anything 'weird' and EVERYONE complains about my music. Since I was 12 I've been teased for listening to 'old' music and no-one ever wants to play my playlists on a roadtrip or party or anything. I also gave someone a lift once and later I found that they complained to a friend of mine that they'd had to listen to stupid old music on the trip :( Generally now if I have someone in the car with me, we listen to silence.
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#206

Post by Onderhond » July 1st, 2020, 8:21 am

You should come to my birthday parties then, my girlfriend is a big fan of old music (from crooners and big band to 60s rock and 80s pop).
As for what I listen to, apparently the jury's still out about whether it actually is music :D

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#207

Post by mightysparks » July 1st, 2020, 8:27 am

Onderhond wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 8:21 am
You should come to my birthday parties then, my girlfriend is a big fan of old music (from crooners and big band to 60s rock and 80s pop).
As for what I listen to, apparently the jury's still out about whether it actually is music :D
Sounds like your girlfriend has very similar taste in music to me (even so far as skipping the 70s entirely lol rubbish decade), and I love me some big band. My boyfriend is the only person who will willingly listen to my stuff even though he hates it and only likes modern hip hop.
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#208

Post by cinewest » July 1st, 2020, 10:54 am

Onderhond wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 8:13 am
blocho wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 2:04 am
Yeah, that leads to a good question. Ondy, I once asked you why you watched so many Scorsese movies when you disliked almost all of them, and you said that you thought it was worthwhile seeing movies even if you didn't anticipate a positive reaction. I admire that attitude, but how do you not end up kind of hating movies if you watch so many that you dislike?
Also a reply to cinewest's question:

The often unseen truth is that I also love a lot of films, but since they are rarely talked about the negative tends to dominate. I currently have around 1146 favorites, which isn't too bad I think. But only 417 (36.4%) are official and only 188 (16.4%) are in 3 official lists or more.

I'm also way more used to being subjected to media I don't like than most people. The world I live in doesn't really cater to my tastes, so from a very early age I've grown accustomed to listening to music I dislike and watching film/TV I dislike. When I'm hosting my own birthday party for example, I can't put on the music I like, because people would just run away. While my rating reflects what I feel about a film, it doesn't necessarily represents the same reaction most people have to things they dislike. I'm perfectly fine sitting through most of my 1* films or listening to music I don't give 2 cents about. Otherwise my life would be unbearable :D

I'm also not a very resentful person, which may explain why I still begin most films with the proper enthusiasm, even though all signs point to me ending up disliking a film. For example, I've been genuinely excited for the past 8 Star Wars films, but didn't like a single one of them. I honestly find this a bit weird myself, but I guess it might just be one of my coping mechanisms.

Sometimes it results in pleasant discoveries, but truth be told, they are quite rare. It does give me the necessary experience and knowledge to participate in film communities though, which is the other part of my film hobby that I really like. While it may not be worth it to others and while it may not be fair in theory, having seen certain films is a realistic requirement for acceptance in most film communities, even though I've long learned that there's no pleasing everyone.

Circling back to Tree of Life (because of a particular someone's hang-up), when I watched it I had only seen Malick's The Thin Red Line (3.0*), which I appreciated for its style (despite not being a big fan of war films). Tree of Life is also a film that could've just as well ended up in my 4* list, so people quick enough to judge that it's clearly not a film for me are probably unfamiliar with some of the films in my list of favorites. B)
I can totally empathize with with the situation you describe of "living in a world that doesn't really cater to (your) tastes," but I can't relate to not seeing the "writing on the wall" when it comes to Star Wars movies, which strikes me more as a lack of awareness than anything else.

I can also relate to your desire to gain the necessary experience and knowledge to participate in film communities (though I might suggest reading a book or two about the art form and intentions of filmmakers, or taking a class or two on the same might be more worthwhile than watching a bunch of films you don't seem to be able to connect with).
As for "hang ups," I'm not the one vindictively trashing films that are trying to do something different and amazing, moreover push the boundaries of narrative cinema....

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#209

Post by Onderhond » July 1st, 2020, 11:26 am

cinewest wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 10:54 am
I can totally empathize with with the situation you describe of "living in a world that doesn't really cater to (your) tastes," but I can't relate to not seeing the "writing on the wall" when it comes to Star Wars movies, which strikes me more as a lack of awareness than anything else.
Awareness of what though? These films have all the potential to be fun, entertaining blockbusters. On paper, these are film I could definitely end up liking (though probably not loving). Take for example a film like Valerian, which I did like. I don't see why Star Wars couldn't be that? A film like Solo (SW spin-offs) was a step in the right direction.
cinewest wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 10:54 am
I can also relate to your desire to gain the necessary experience and knowledge to participate in film communities (though I might suggest reading a book or two about the art form and intentions of filmmakers, or taking a class or two on the same might be more worthwhile than watching a bunch of films you don't seem to be able to connect with).
I think that's rather bad advise for me personally. I have a couple of film books at home (about directors I like - Shinya Tsukamoto and Takashi Miike), but this kind of writing just doesn't connect with me. Classic critiques or academic writing just isn't about how I experience the medium, which again ties in with living in a world that doesn't cater to my taste. I've also watched some documentaries on films I didn't like (Psycho for example) or films I did like (The Shining - Room 237), and they annoy me no end. To be clear, I don't mind people who enjoy film in that way, but it just isn't for me :)
cinewest wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 10:54 am
I'm not the one vindictively trashing films that are trying to do something different and amazing, moreover push the boundaries of narrative cinema....
Neither am I. Do I do dislike some films in that category and won't pull any punches when that happens.

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#210

Post by AB537 » July 1st, 2020, 1:53 pm

I guess it's time to start the next round of cuts. This time, I'm going with The Artist. This is a strange case to me of a decent, but by no means great, movie that was massively overhyped in its time, only to be promptly forgotten as soon as it dominated the Oscars. Why this was is an open question, but I suspect it appealed to a sense of novelty and/or nostalgia, depending on the viewer, and of course Hollywood's narcissistic obsession with itself that leads to movies about movies being vastly overrepresented at the Oscars. At the time, 2013 or so, the novelty angle did appeal to me somewhat, although this factor has dissipated over time, perhaps because I've become much more familiar with films and film history than I was then. The Artist does feature good performances, but the story is quite thin and insufficiently gripping to sustain an award-winning film.
The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
Inception
The Kids Are All Right
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Midnight in Paris
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
Amour
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Silver Linings Playbook
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dallas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Nebraska
Philomena
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Boyhood
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Selma
American Sniper
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Brooklyn
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hacksaw Ridge
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Lion
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
Phantom Thread
The Post
The Shape of Water
BlacKkKlansman
Black Panther
The Favourite
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Jojo Rabbit
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (1 veto left)
3. beasterne (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (1 veto left)
7. PGonzalez (1 veto left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (1 veto left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (1 veto left)

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#211

Post by cinewest » July 1st, 2020, 2:03 pm

Onderhond wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 11:26 am
cinewest wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 10:54 am
I can totally empathize with with the situation you describe of "living in a world that doesn't really cater to (your) tastes," but I can't relate to not seeing the "writing on the wall" when it comes to Star Wars movies, which strikes me more as a lack of awareness than anything else.
Awareness of what though? These films have all the potential to be fun, entertaining blockbusters. On paper, these are film I could definitely end up liking (though probably not loving). Take for example a film like Valerian, which I did like. I don't see why Star Wars couldn't be that? A film like Solo (SW spin-offs) was a step in the right direction.
cinewest wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 10:54 am
I can also relate to your desire to gain the necessary experience and knowledge to participate in film communities (though I might suggest reading a book or two about the art form and intentions of filmmakers, or taking a class or two on the same might be more worthwhile than watching a bunch of films you don't seem to be able to connect with).
I think that's rather bad advise for me personally. I have a couple of film books at home (about directors I like - Shinya Tsukamoto and Takashi Miike), but this kind of writing just doesn't connect with me. Classic critiques or academic writing just isn't about how I experience the medium, which again ties in with living in a world that doesn't cater to my taste. I've also watched some documentaries on films I didn't like (Psycho for example) or films I did like (The Shining - Room 237), and they annoy me no end. To be clear, I don't mind people who enjoy film in that way, but it just isn't for me :)
cinewest wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 10:54 am
I'm not the one vindictively trashing films that are trying to do something different and amazing, moreover push the boundaries of narrative cinema....
Neither am I. Do I do dislike some films in that category and won't pull any punches when that happens.
Well, ambitious films like Tree of Life aren't for everyone, no doubt, and I don't think it was problem free, myself (it definitely needs / merits a rewatch). When I saw it the first time in the theater, at least a dozen people walked out during the screening, and as I was entering the theater, a lady who was leaving after the previous showing "warned" me not to go in. I guess I just get tired of these kinds of reactions, when it is so clear to me that Malick accomplished something extraordinary in the balance.

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#212

Post by cinewest » July 1st, 2020, 2:04 pm

AB537 wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 1:53 pm
I guess it's time to start the next round of cuts. This time, I'm going with The Artist. This is a strange case to me of a decent, but by no means great, movie that was massively overhyped in its time, only to be promptly forgotten as soon as it dominated the Oscars. Why this was is an open question, but I suspect it appealed to a sense of novelty and/or nostalgia, depending on the viewer, and of course Hollywood's narcissistic obsession with itself that leads to movies about movies being vastly overrepresented at the Oscars. At the time, 2013 or so, the novelty angle did appeal to me somewhat, although this factor has dissipated over time, perhaps because I've become much more familiar with films and film history than I was then. The Artist does feature good performances, but the story is quite thin and insufficiently gripping to sustain an award-winning film.
The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
Inception
The Kids Are All Right
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Midnight in Paris
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
Amour
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Silver Linings Playbook
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dallas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Nebraska
Philomena
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Boyhood
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Selma
American Sniper
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Brooklyn
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hacksaw Ridge
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Lion
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
Phantom Thread
The Post
The Shape of Water
BlacKkKlansman
Black Panther
The Favourite
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Jojo Rabbit
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (1 veto left)
3. beasterne (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (1 veto left)
7. PGonzalez (1 veto left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (1 veto left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (1 veto left)
Couldn't agree more, though I expect you will flush out a veto on this one.

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#213

Post by jeff_v » July 1st, 2020, 2:28 pm

sol wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 11:20 pm
I have been wondering about Avatar. One of few unseen films from me on the list because I always thought it looked subpar. Guess it has more love than I imagined...
I wouldn't draw any conclusions about whether a film is liked by virtue of surviving the first two rounds without being nominated. Half the people nominating are going after 'big game' and ignoring mediocrities like The Help.

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#214

Post by OldAle1 » July 1st, 2020, 2:35 pm

Unless cinewest knows something about somebody here that I don't, I'd have to disagree that The Artist is that likely to get a veto. I don't really recall it being treated with that much affection, and back in IMDb days it really wasn't that beloved either. Remember that that year had three films that were paeans to both the silent era and France in certain respects - Midnight in Paris, Hugo and this film, and as I remember most people liked the Scorsese film the most and maybe the Allen one more than this as well. I dunno, I could be misremembering, and I haven't exactly looked for threads about it here, but I just don't get the sense that it's a film that many people are super-passionate about. I liked it fine myself but not enough that I've ever considered watching it again, or that I thought it deserved any major awards apart from (maybe) acting.

Avatar is a film I liked less than I hoped/expected, The Help I actually liked more - maybe because I didn't see it until a couple of years ago, and was prepared to hate it by that time. Ultimately both are in the "OK movie but I don't care to bother eliminating it" category for me, which I guess is the largest group.

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#215

Post by Onderhond » July 1st, 2020, 2:51 pm

cinewest wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 2:03 pm
and as I was entering the theater, a lady who was leaving after the previous showing "warned" me not to go in. I guess I just get tired of these kinds of reactions, when it is so clear to me that Malick accomplished something extraordinary in the balance.
Well yes, that's why I only tend to give recommendations, I'll never persuade people not to see a film (unless they're taking my opinion directly as a reason not to watch it of course). Tree of Life is a divisive film and it would be crazy to try and stop people from watching it. I'm also not lumping the film into the same category as lazy blockbusters, but in the end my rating represents my own experience (not skill, ambition, artistry, ...) and that simply wasn't any good.

I've seen a lot of love for it too though, so it's hardly underrated, it's just rather divisive :)

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#216

Post by mightysparks » July 1st, 2020, 2:56 pm

It also seems to be more of a man’s film, or more specifically an old man’s film based on conversations I had with others, and being a 20 year old girl at the time I definitely found little to relate to (especially having never experienced the death of anyone close to me, and I still haven’t). Plus it was way too religious and preachy and unsubtle. Just found it gross. Maybe I’ll try it again when I’m an old man.
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#217

Post by cinewest » July 1st, 2020, 3:06 pm

So what are you chopping, Ale?

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#218

Post by cinewest » July 1st, 2020, 3:12 pm

mightysparks wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 2:56 pm
It also seems to be more of a man’s film, or more specifically an old man’s film based on conversations I had with others, and being a 20 year old girl at the time I definitely found little to relate to (especially having never experienced the death of anyone close to me, and I still haven’t). Plus it was way too religious and preachy and unsubtle. Just found it gross. Maybe I’ll try it again when I’m an old man.
It's certainly true that some films require a certain amount of maturity to appreciate, whereas others tend to appeal more to more juvenile sensibilities.
Last edited by cinewest on July 1st, 2020, 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#219

Post by AB537 » July 1st, 2020, 3:24 pm

mightysparks wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 2:56 pm
It also seems to be more of a man’s film, or more specifically an old man’s film based on conversations I had with others, and being a 20 year old girl at the time I definitely found little to relate to (especially having never experienced the death of anyone close to me, and I still haven’t). Plus it was way too religious and preachy and unsubtle. Just found it gross. Maybe I’ll try it again when I’m an old man.
Interesting take, hadn't considered this perspective before and it's at least plausible I'd enjoy this one more in 20-30 years. As it is, I've seen the film twice and, while I didn't particularly enjoy it either time, I also didn't hate it. This one strikes me as the transition movie where Malick's idiosyncrasies start to become too dominant, leading to his unbearable later films, e.g. To the Wonder and Knight of Cups, in which any semblance of a coherent narrative is abandoned and pretentious voiceovers rule the day, albeit with some stunning shots dropped in here and there. I've heard A Hidden Life shifts the balance back towards his earlier work, so will probably check that one out sooner or later.

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#220

Post by mightysparks » July 1st, 2020, 3:25 pm

Well I wouldn’t call it maturity, but life experience. The film was pretty simplistic, but having experiences that you can relate to would probably make it easier to connect to on a different level.
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#221

Post by cinewest » July 1st, 2020, 3:44 pm

mightysparks wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 3:25 pm
Well I wouldn’t call it maturity, but life experience. The film was pretty simplistic, but having experiences that you can relate to would probably make it easier to connect to on a different level.
Well, nobody in my core family died unexpectedly during my youth, but that doesn't mean that I can't empathize with a family that goes through such an experience, nor do I find it odd that a shocking experience like that could really tear into a family and challenge people's spiritual faith. More than the story line, however is the way the film is conceived, as well as the way it plays. I made a short comment earlier that the film struck me as "symphonic" (probably more "old man" stuff, for you), and believe that it is carried out in "movements."

Don't see anything on this list that compares in terms of artistic intention, and there is enough that succeeds that is so unique that it ends up as something very special, even for many who haven't yet reached 30

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#222

Post by mightysparks » July 1st, 2020, 3:51 pm

I’m not saying it’s impossible, but since I probably have aspergers I struggle with empathy a lot and it’s only since having depression and PTSD that I’ve been able to experience it at all. So having experiences I can relate to generally helps especially when it’s not a strictly narrative film. I hated Hiroshima mon amour, for example, the first time I watched it because I all saw was a stupid wooden stilted pointless romance about nothing. But after having PTSD it was a whole new film. All I remember about Tree of Life was the preachy narration being shoved down my throat and probably would’ve found it more symphonic if there hadn’t been any.

Some of the people I talked to at the time said they felt it was an old man’s film because they related strongly to the way childhood and the parent/child relationship was portrayed, which helped them connect more with it. Most of the women I talked to didn’t like it or connect with it strongly.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#223

Post by PGonzalez » July 1st, 2020, 4:00 pm

mightysparks wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 2:56 pm
(especially having never experienced the death of anyone close to me, and I still haven’t).
I do agree that this kind of experience greatly influenced how I reacted to this film (and to The Irishman as well), and I always saw that kind of life experience disconnection to be one of the main reasons for the treatment those films receive online as opposed to 'in real life'. Unfortunately, I don't think either of them will survive until the end, but I already pledged my next veto to The Tree of Life and I hope they survive as long as possible.

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#224

Post by cinewest » July 1st, 2020, 4:02 pm

mightysparks wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 3:51 pm
I’m not saying it’s impossible, but since I probably have aspergers I struggle with empathy a lot and it’s only since having depression and PTSD that I’ve been able to experience it at all. So having experiences I can relate to generally helps especially when it’s not a strictly narrative film. I hated Hiroshima mon amour, for example, the first time I watched it because I all saw was a stupid wooden stilted pointless romance about nothing. But after having PTSD it was a whole new film. All I remember about Tree of Life was the preachy narration being shoved down my throat and probably would’ve found it more symphonic if there hadn’t been any.

Some of the people I talked to at the time said they felt it was an old man’s film because they related strongly to the way childhood and the parent/child relationship was portrayed, which helped them connect more with it. Most of the women I talked to didn’t like it or connect with it strongly.
Hiroshima Mon Amour is one of my favorite films of all time, ever since my college days. Have seen it several times since then, and find that it still holds up

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#225

Post by OldAle1 » July 1st, 2020, 4:46 pm

oh forgot it was my turn. Two films left that I rated 4 and as most know, I don't rate a lot of films low. I flipped a coin and the cut goes to The Darkest Hour which it turns out was written by the same person who wrote my first choice Bohemian Rhapsody. Two out of the four worst BP nominees in this challenge, same dude behind the words. I guess this is why I haven't made any effort to see The Two Popes yet...

Anyway apart from Oldman's very good (but hardly GOAT) central performance this was an utterly dull, by-the-numbers biopic, and it was terribly ugly visually as well. And the shots of bombers were among the weirdest and most fake-looking digital effects I've seen in any recent, presumably decent-budgeted film. I saw this in the cinema with my mom - must have been one of the last films she saw on the big screen, maybe the last, and she liked it much more than I did - the story was enough for her. And the theater I remember was filled with people who probably had some dim personal memory of WWII. I guess that was enough for the Academy.

Damn there sure have been plenty of WWII films nominated for these awards. Even now, 75 years after the end of the war.

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#226

Post by jeroeno » July 1st, 2020, 5:02 pm

Here's the updated list. 14 films were eliminated in Round 2. Only Call Me By Your Name was vetoed.
Next up is beasterne.
The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
The Kids Are All Right
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
Amour
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dallas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Philomena
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Selma
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
The Post
The Shape of Water
BlacKkKlansman
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (1 veto left)
3. beasterne (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (1 veto left)
7. PGonzalez (1 veto left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (1 veto left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (1 veto left)

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#227

Post by blocho » July 1st, 2020, 5:52 pm

I'm not sure I would call it a biopic, but I also thought Darkest Hour was very average. The scene on the train was laughable. It's not good when the key emotional and narrative hinge of a movie just makes you think, "Well, this never happened."

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#228

Post by beasterne » July 1st, 2020, 6:15 pm

My next cut is one that I'm honestly shocked made it this far in. Cut: Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. I remember at the time this film was nominated it was broadly decided to be the worst BP-nominated movie of all time. I'm not sure it goes that far for me, but it still is pretty bad. And it shouldn't be making it any farther in this game than it already has. The little kid is annoying, the story is pretty bad, and all of the characters are stereotypes and not fleshed out at all. Just, not a good movie. I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the Weinstein-backed film for that particular year, it just has that sheen to it.

The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
The Kids Are All Right
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
Amour
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dallas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Philomena
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Selma
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
The Post
The Shape of Water
BlacKkKlansman
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (1 veto left)
3. beasterne (1 veto left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (1 veto left)
7. PGonzalez (1 veto left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (1 veto left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (1 veto left)

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#229

Post by AB537 » July 1st, 2020, 6:16 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 4:46 pm
oh forgot it was my turn. Two films left that I rated 4 and as most know, I don't rate a lot of films low. I flipped a coin and the cut goes to The Darkest Hour which it turns out was written by the same person who wrote my first choice Bohemian Rhapsody. Two out of the four worst BP nominees in this challenge, same dude behind the words. I guess this is why I haven't made any effort to see The Two Popes yet...

Anyway apart from Oldman's very good (but hardly GOAT) central performance this was an utterly dull, by-the-numbers biopic, and it was terribly ugly visually as well. And the shots of bombers were among the weirdest and most fake-looking digital effects I've seen in any recent, presumably decent-budgeted film. I saw this in the cinema with my mom - must have been one of the last films she saw on the big screen, maybe the last, and she liked it much more than I did - the story was enough for her. And the theater I remember was filled with people who probably had some dim personal memory of WWII. I guess that was enough for the Academy.

Damn there sure have been plenty of WWII films nominated for these awards. Even now, 75 years after the end of the war.
For what it's worth, I highly doubt my grandmother, who passed last year, ever saw this film, but I have no doubt she would have enjoyed it greatly. Although fairly apolitical for her entire life, as far as I know, she was born in England, lived there during the war, and admired Churchill greatly for the remainder of her long life as a result of what he did during those five years, especially the events of 1940 in which this film was set.

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#230

Post by OldAle1 » July 1st, 2020, 6:19 pm

blocho wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 5:52 pm
I'm not sure I would call it a biopic, but I also thought Darkest Hour was very average. The scene on the train was laughable. It's not good when the key emotional and narrative hinge of a movie just makes you think, "Well, this never happened."
Yeah, OK, not really a biopic by my definition either - but it certainly falls into the Oscar category as such. Forgot about the train scene, oh my god, one of the worst scenes in any BP nominee ever. Really Andrew McCarten rivals Akiva Goldsman for the title of Worst Oscar-Nominated Screenwriter Ever. At least he hasn't won any...yet.

As for Extremely Loud, another one I didn't see. I remember the jokes over the title and the preview for that one, though I also remember somebody whose opinions I trusted to some extent who really really loved it and defended it. Don't think it was anybody on this forum - would have been an IMDb user and I don't think it's one who migrated here - but speak up and tell us why it's great if you're here :lol:

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#231

Post by jeroeno » July 1st, 2020, 6:21 pm

The (Ret)Artist, Dullest Hour and Extremely Shit & Incredibly Boring. I love these choices so far.

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#232

Post by AB537 » July 1st, 2020, 6:30 pm

beasterne wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 6:15 pm
My next cut is one that I'm honestly shocked made it this far in. Cut: Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close. I remember at the time this film was nominated it was broadly decided to be the worst BP-nominated movie of all time. I'm not sure it goes that far for me, but it still is pretty bad. And it shouldn't be making it any farther in this game than it already has. The little kid is annoying, the story is pretty bad, and all of the characters are stereotypes and not fleshed out at all. Just, not a good movie. I haven't checked, but I wouldn't be surprised if this was the Weinstein-backed film for that particular year, it just has that sheen to it.

The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
The Kids Are All Right
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
Amour
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dallas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Philomena
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Selma
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
The Post
The Shape of Water
BlacKkKlansman
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (1 veto left)
3. beasterne (1 veto left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (1 veto left)
7. PGonzalez (1 veto left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (1 veto left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (1 veto left)
I greatly appreciate this cut, not because I've seen it, but because it saves me the trouble of hunting this movie down and watching it, despite having no interest whatsoever in it. That leaves me with 4 BP nominees to watch, and am starting on that list now - Philomena is up first. Fortunately, my wife's interest in watching Fences and rewatching The Help will make this far less painful than it might otherwise have been.

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#233

Post by jeff_v » July 1st, 2020, 6:45 pm

Since I brought it up already, let's make it official: I'm cutting The Help, another in a long line of films that cast a smug eye backwards at history, with a protagonist to root for whose worldview is more advanced. A must-see for those who enjoy being condescended to.

The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
The Kids Are All Right
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
Amour
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dallas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Philomena
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Selma
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
The Post
The Shape of Water
BlacKkKlansman
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (1 veto left)
3. beasterne (1 veto left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (1 veto left)
7. PGonzalez (1 veto left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (1 veto left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (1 veto left)

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Location: Valkenswaard, The Netherlands
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#234

Post by jeroeno » July 1st, 2020, 6:51 pm

I'm sure Mighty will be happy with that cut. Another Emma Stone movie gone. Octavia Spencer was good in it but a nomination for best picture is ridiculous. Another great cut. Now for my favorite time of the day : time for Onderhond to cut a movie.

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#235

Post by brokenface » July 1st, 2020, 6:55 pm

Well done people. Some early upsets of big hitters are alright but there's a lot of middling-to-bad films that needed culling. The last three i thought would be amongst the very first cuts, i would've been getting onto them next

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#236

Post by Onderhond » July 1st, 2020, 7:06 pm

Well, I'm back to The Tree of Life for this round. Hopefully most Stone films are gone by now, because I feel I'll need Mighty's help for this one.

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#237

Post by OldAle1 » July 1st, 2020, 7:07 pm

AB537 wrote:
July 1st, 2020, 6:16 pm


For what it's worth, I highly doubt my grandmother, who passed last year, ever saw this film, but I have no doubt she would have enjoyed it greatly. Although fairly apolitical for her entire life, as far as I know, she was born in England, lived there during the war, and admired Churchill greatly for the remainder of her long life as a result of what he did during those five years, especially the events of 1940 in which this film was set.
Oh yeah, sounds very similar to my mom in some ways (apart from nationality). And even though most of the people here probably don't like Churchill's politics - especially his attitude towards India - there's no doubt that he had the kind of personality and spirit that was necessary for the times in 1940; it's no wonder Agent Orange is getting compared so often to him and to FDR :lol:

It's also the case that a great many people watch movies almost entirely for the story and characters, and so if they want a film about heroism in war, and the film isn't totally incompetent, they're going to appreciate it no matter what, and not really think too much about either the political stance it takes or the filmmaking. I'm sure most of us started off that way as viewers, but we for whatever reason ending up joining the thin ranks of those who look at film as something more than instantly forgettable shallow entertainment (some of it, anyway).

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#238

Post by Smoover » July 1st, 2020, 7:59 pm

I Cut "Zero Dark Thirty". This movie is a double-edged sword for me. The whole story how they get rid of Osama is lazy enough, why did we need a movie about this? I dont know serious documentary about this, but we have this movie. At least it was technically well done and it was Jessica Chestain's best Performance since The Tree of Life .
The List of FilmsShow
Avatar
District 9
The Hurt Locker
Inglourious Basterds
Precious
A Serious Man
Up
Up in the Air
Black Swan
The Fighter
The Kids Are All Right
127 Hours
The Social Network
Toy Story 3
True Grit
Winter's Bone
The Artist
The Descendants
Extremely Loud & Incredibly Close
The Help
Hugo
Moneyball
The Tree of Life
Amour
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Django Unchained
Life of Pi
Lincoln
Zero Dark Thirty
American Hustle
Captain Phillips
Dallas Buyers Club
Gravity
Her
Philomena
12 Years a Slave
The Wolf of Wall Street
Birdman or (The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)
The Grand Budapest Hotel
Selma
The Imitation Game
The Theory of Everything
The Big Short
Bridge of Spies
Mad Max: Fury Road
The Martian
The Revenant
Room
Spotlight
Arrival
Fences
Hell or High Water
Hidden Figures
La La Land
Manchester by the Sea
Moonlight
Call Me by Your Name
Darkest Hour
Dunkirk
Get Out
Lady Bird
The Post
The Shape of Water
BlacKkKlansman
Green Book
Roma
A Star Is Born
Ford v Ferrari
The Irishman
Joker
Little Women
Marriage Story
1917
Once Upon a Time… in Hollywood
Parasite (Gisaengchung)
The ParticipantsShow
1. AB537 (2 vetoes left)
2. OldAle1 (1 veto left)
3. beasterne (1 veto left)
4. jeff_v (2 vetoes left)
5. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
6. Smoover (1 veto left)
7. PGonzalez (1 veto left)
8. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
9. toromash (1 veto left)
10. mightysparks (2 vetoes left)
11. sol (2 vetoes left)
12. blocho (2 vetoes left)
13. shugs (2 vetoes left)
14. jeroeno (2 vetoes left)
15. NathanTreadway (1 veto left)
Last edited by Smoover on July 1st, 2020, 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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#240

Post by beasterne » July 1st, 2020, 8:05 pm

2011 finally getting the cuts it deserves. In my opinion it's the weakest year as far as nominees go since the Academy expanded beyond 5 nominees, with 2018 as a close-ish 2nd.

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