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AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Rankdown (FINAL RESULTS, #10-#1)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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blocho
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Re: AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Rankdown (Round 9, #27-#17)

#521

Post by blocho » June 8th, 2020, 8:43 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
June 8th, 2020, 8:17 pm
blocho wrote:
June 8th, 2020, 5:22 am
It is puzzling. But I think I have it figured out. Here's my theory: different people have different tastes in movies.
This is a shocking and deeply offensive comment. I DEMAND that you retract it, or I will be forced to leave this forum. If I'm not objectively right about how good or bad a movie is, what is the point in trying to get my unassailably perfect taste to be shared by you lowly cretins?
Ahhhh, Oldy, you crack me up.

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#522

Post by beasterne » June 8th, 2020, 9:08 pm

This is tough. I really don't want to have to cut any of these, and I enjoy all of the remaining films for one reason or another. But this round I'm going to cut Double Indemnity

It's a well-executed film noir, definitely one of the classics of the genre. However, I find the relationship at the center of the film a bit too unbelievable. Thinking about it, for me it comes down to the juxtaposition between the cynical attitudes that all noir characters have with the supposed passion the two main characters have for each other. If everyone is so pessimistic and cynical, then it seems weird that you would stick your neck so far out to get involved in a murder plot based on a new relationship. If it was a crime of passion, sure. But I didn't get enough passion from the characters. So it seems a lot more believable to me that they would say, "I stick my neck out for nobody," to each other, and not go through with all the murdering.

A really close call here, but this is the cut I feel strongest about given the films that are left.

AFI List (what's left)Show
3. Casablanca
5. Singin' in the Rain
11. City Lights
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
18. The General
21. Chinatown
23. The Grapes of Wrath
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
61. Sullivan's Travels
64. Network
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
74. The Silence of the Lambs
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
94. Pulp Fiction
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash (0 vetoes left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (1 veto left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (1 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (0 vetoes left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

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#523

Post by OldAle1 » June 8th, 2020, 9:21 pm

I think you've hit at what my problem is with that film also - and I do like it a lot, like you, but it's not among my top 10 or maybe even 20 classic-era noir, and that might be why. You remind me of one of the (very many) criticisms of the psychology at work among characters in Atlas Shrugged - the protagonists are all uber-capitalists, they all believe in absolute cut-throat take-no-prisoners behavior in the real world, and yet when they end up in the paradise of Galt's Gulch they're all cooperating and not even trying to step on each others' toes or put each other out of business. It just doesn't work to utterly change characters' morality and ethics that have already been established just to fit your story.

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#524

Post by blocho » June 8th, 2020, 10:57 pm

I also think Double Indemnity is a little overrated. It probably makes my list of top 30 noirs but not top 20.

For the third time, I am cutting One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, though this time I feel a little more guilty about it. Even if I don't feel similarly, I appreciate Lauren's deep love for this movie. Perhaps she is not alone. Perhaps some other savior will emerge to ward off my merciless blade.

AFI List (what's left)Show
3. Casablanca
5. Singin' in the Rain
11. City Lights
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
18. The General
21. Chinatown
23. The Grapes of Wrath
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
61. Sullivan's Travels
64. Network
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
74. The Silence of the Lambs
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
94. Pulp Fiction
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash (0 vetoes left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (1 veto left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (1 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (0 vetoes left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

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#525

Post by mightysparks » June 9th, 2020, 1:16 am

I guess blocho is my enemy now :angry: :P Also lost a few more great films after the last few cuts...

Well, I thought I had rated this film 1/10 and I actually gave it a 2, but it's the worst film still left so... The General. Like other slapstick comedies, it's painfully unfunny and childish. The stunts are 'cool' for its time, but not something that really helps the film at all.
AFI List (what's left)Show
3. Casablanca
5. Singin' in the Rain
11. City Lights
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
18. The General
21. Chinatown
23. The Grapes of Wrath
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
61. Sullivan's Travels
64. Network
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
74. The Silence of the Lambs
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
94. Pulp Fiction
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash (0 vetoes left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (1 veto left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (1 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (0 vetoes left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#526

Post by blocho » June 9th, 2020, 4:24 am

mightysparks wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 1:16 am
I guess blocho is my enemy now :angry: :P Also lost a few more great films after the last few cuts...

Well, I thought I had rated this film 1/10 and I actually gave it a 2, but it's the worst film still left so... The General. Like other slapstick comedies, it's painfully unfunny and childish. The stunts are 'cool' for its time, but not something that really helps the film at all.
A mortal enemy! :D

What kind of comedies do you like?

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#527

Post by mightysparks » June 9th, 2020, 5:18 am

blocho wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 4:24 am
mightysparks wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 1:16 am
I guess blocho is my enemy now :angry: :P Also lost a few more great films after the last few cuts...

Well, I thought I had rated this film 1/10 and I actually gave it a 2, but it's the worst film still left so... The General. Like other slapstick comedies, it's painfully unfunny and childish. The stunts are 'cool' for its time, but not something that really helps the film at all.
A mortal enemy! :D

What kind of comedies do you like?
Black, awkward, witty/dialogue based ones, I guess.
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#528

Post by sol » June 9th, 2020, 9:24 am

mightysparks wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 1:16 am
The General. Like other slapstick comedies, it's painfully unfunny and childish. The stunts are 'cool' for its time, but not something that really helps the film at all.
Oh, yes. I approve of this cut. :poshclap: In fact, this is the film that I was planning to cut next round myself. While I actually think that The General is a pretty great film, it is far removed from Keaton's best stuff in my books. I have always found in his short films funnier in general; Keaton usually sets up great gags and set-pieces, but I don't think he carries a feature length film as well as his contemporaries (Lloyd, Chaplin, even Langdon perhaps).
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#529

Post by Onderhond » June 9th, 2020, 9:27 am

Pfoe, I was certain sol was going to save The General. I think it's my favorite Keaton, have been watching some of his shorts these past few months but nothing that comes even close. Ah well, good riddance!

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#530

Post by sol » June 9th, 2020, 9:32 am

Onderhond wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 9:27 am
Pfoe, I was certain sol was going to save The General. I think it's my favorite Keaton, have been watching some of his shorts these past few months but nothing that comes even close. Ah well, good riddance!
I'm pretty sure that we have had this conversation before on the weekly thread. :D That's why I predicted earlier on that The General would win this competition as a rare classic that you didn't dislike. I guess I have to place my money on Casablanca now. As far as Keaton goes, One Week is probably my single favourite narrative short film, and there are a bunch of others that aren't far behind. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess.
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#531

Post by Onderhond » June 9th, 2020, 9:39 am

sol wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 9:32 am
Onderhond wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 9:27 am
Pfoe, I was certain sol was going to save The General. I think it's my favorite Keaton, have been watching some of his shorts these past few months but nothing that comes even close. Ah well, good riddance!
I'm pretty sure that we have had this conversation before on the weekly thread. :D That's why I predicted earlier on that The General would win this competition as a rare classic that you didn't dislike. I guess I have to place my money on Casablanca now. As far as Keaton goes, One Week is probably my single favourite narrative short film, and there are a bunch of others that aren't far behind. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess.
I seem to have forgotten about One Week, because I have that rated higher than The General (3.0*). Shorts like The Haunted House, Neighbors and The 'High Sign' were pretty disappointing though. But I did remember you liking his shorts better, just thought you were a bigger Keaton fan in ... general.

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#532

Post by sol » June 9th, 2020, 9:59 am

Onderhond wrote:
June 9th, 2020, 9:39 am
I did remember you liking his shorts better, just thought you were a bigger Keaton fan in ... general.
Love the pun in that sentence. :D For what it's worth, The General is an 8/10 for me, and to answer cinewest's question put forth earlier, I think all the remaining films are great... but some are greater than others. I think there's one more 8/10 that I am interested in cutting because I am tired of it topping certain polls, but beyond that it's going to be tough to choose.
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#533

Post by cinewest » June 10th, 2020, 11:28 pm

So Sunrise wins the 20’s
City Lights (a silent) wins the 30’s
Do the Right Thing wins the 80’s
Pulp Fiction wins the 90’s
and the other 4 decades have 3 or 4 films remaining.

I like the way this aspect of the game has worked out, where with less than 20 films left, every decade is still represented, and my only dispute might be which films have been chosen to represent.

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#534

Post by beasterne » June 11th, 2020, 12:40 am

cinewest wrote:
June 10th, 2020, 11:28 pm
So Sunrise wins the 20’s
City Lights (a silent) wins the 30’s
Do the Right Thing wins the 80’s
Pulp Fiction wins the 90’s
and the other 4 decades have 3 or 4 films remaining.

I like the way this aspect of the game has worked out, where with less than 20 films left, every decade is still represented, and my only dispute might be which films have been chosen to represent.
Interesting stats! Thank you for tracking these.

Hopefully mathiasa can check the thread soon to make his cut, and then we’ll be ready for vetoes and round 10!

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#535

Post by cinewest » June 11th, 2020, 4:58 am

Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? 12 Angry Men.

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#536

Post by mathiasa » June 11th, 2020, 2:14 pm

Sorry, had an infect and went to hospital. I've chosen Do the right thing. I hope I did.
AFI List (what's left)Show
3. Casablanca
5. Singin' in the Rain
11. City Lights
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
18. The General
21. Chinatown
23. The Grapes of Wrath
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
61. Sullivan's Travels
64. Network
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
74. The Silence of the Lambs
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
94. Pulp Fiction
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash (0 vetoes left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (1 veto left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (1 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (0 vetoes left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

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#537

Post by cinewest » June 11th, 2020, 2:49 pm

And then there were 16.

One more elimination round? Is this the last chance to use vetoes, and can the remaining vetoes be used to resurrect movies that were cut earlier or only in whatever round is current?

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#538

Post by beasterne » June 11th, 2020, 4:02 pm

cinewest wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 2:49 pm
And then there were 16.

One more elimination round? Is this the last chance to use vetoes, and can the remaining vetoes be used to resurrect movies that were cut earlier or only in whatever round is current?
Round 9 is in the books! That is, until the vetoes start to fly.

I'm thinking that the vetoes will be very important right now, so we'll take a full 24 hours to give everyone a chance to use them.

Vetoes can still only resurrect movies cut in Round 9. My guess is that Round 10 will be the last "traditional" round, with Round 11 being the ballot round. But vetoes have a big role to play in how it all shakes out, so things could still change!

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#539

Post by blocho » June 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm

So you're saying we can't use vetoes next round? This is our last chance to use a veto?

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#540

Post by jeroeno » June 11th, 2020, 6:30 pm

So here are the movies that were cut this round and can be saved by a veto:

14. Psycho
18. The General
29. Double Indemnity
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
74. The Silence of the Lambs
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner

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#541

Post by jvv » June 11th, 2020, 6:34 pm

blocho wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm
So you're saying we can't use vetoes next round? This is our last chance to use a veto?
No, as I understand it you can still use your vetoes next round.

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#542

Post by beasterne » June 11th, 2020, 6:49 pm

jvv wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 6:34 pm
blocho wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 6:29 pm
So you're saying we can't use vetoes next round? This is our last chance to use a veto?
No, as I understand it you can still use your vetoes next round.
Right, vetoes can be used next round as well. The last round to use them is the round before the ballot round.

I'm starting to see a potential strategy arising with the vetoes that may make the last couple of rounds particularly interesting. Not sure if I should say anything now, since people may have been planning their veto usage around this strategy. But it is something that we might need to address in future games if things turn out the way I think they might.

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#543

Post by blocho » June 11th, 2020, 7:11 pm

So if we have only one more round before final balloting, that means that of the 17 current movies, 11 be cut and 7 will be saved by veto, leaving a total of 13 movies for the final vote? Of course, that assumes that people use all of their vetoes, which is not guaranteed.

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#544

Post by jeroeno » June 11th, 2020, 7:20 pm

If there's 13 films left we'll play another round and the final ballot will only have 3 films :blink: :huh:

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#545

Post by brokenface » June 11th, 2020, 7:23 pm

jeroeno wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 7:20 pm
If there's 13 films left we'll play another round and the final ballot will only have 3 films :blink: :huh:
11 votes, so 2 films. but what about if we landed with 12 films left, we wouldn't get the ballot round?

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#546

Post by beasterne » June 11th, 2020, 7:45 pm

brokenface wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 7:23 pm
jeroeno wrote:
June 11th, 2020, 7:20 pm
If there's 13 films left we'll play another round and the final ballot will only have 3 films :blink: :huh:
11 votes, so 2 films. but what about if we landed with 12 films left, we wouldn't get the ballot round?
Yes, with the current rules that's right. Maybe it's not fair, but I think it's probably too late to change things now.

For our next game we can definitely amend the rules to address these possibilities.

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#547

Post by Onderhond » June 12th, 2020, 10:05 am

Guess it's time to start using my vetoes. There was only 1 film in the list that I gave 4*, which is Do the Right Thing. I've seen it long ago, so I'm not even sure the rating will uphold when seeing it again, but without it, I'd hardly have anything to protect, so you're not cutting that yet.

#icmsowhite

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#548

Post by cinewest » June 12th, 2020, 12:01 pm

@ Onderhond

Wow, you volunteered a lot of information late in the game for a man in such a position of power (someone with vetoes, who doesn't care at all for more than 95% of the list).

I liked Do the Right Thing most the first time I saw it, when Spike Lee was bringing something fresh to the table (before I started to tire of him), and really cracked through with this one. Alas, it didn't hold up nearly so well upon a second viewing. self-righteous but muddled thinking never leads to anything productive.
Last edited by cinewest on June 12th, 2020, 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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#549

Post by Onderhond » June 12th, 2020, 12:07 pm

Did I? Maybe I misread some tactics of the game, but there's only 1 film I care for, which can't be cut next round and which has another 2 rounds of safety because I still hold another veto. Care to fill me in? :)

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#550

Post by AB537 » June 12th, 2020, 12:35 pm

Onderhond wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 12:07 pm
Did I? Maybe I misread some tactics of the game, but there's only 1 film I care for, which can't be cut next round and which has another 2 rounds of safety because I still hold another veto. Care to fill me in? :)
The only player who can't cut it next round is the player whose cut you vetoed.

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#551

Post by Onderhond » June 12th, 2020, 12:38 pm

Oh :D

Well yeah, people who want revenge their know what to do then!

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#552

Post by beasterne » June 12th, 2020, 1:10 pm

Round 10 will begin 8 hours from the time of this post (so approximately 9:00 PM GMT! Last call for vetoes this round.

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#553

Post by jeroeno » June 12th, 2020, 3:49 pm

Onderhond wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 12:38 pm
Oh :D

Well yeah, people who want revenge their know what to do then!
Just wait with your veto until the end of the round. After that nobody else can cut it anymore :thumbsup:

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#554

Post by jeroeno » June 12th, 2020, 3:53 pm

I won't use my veto this round. I love Blade Runner, Silence of the Lambs, Cuckoo's Nest and Double Indemnity but there are two other films I love more. Saving those is more important.

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#555

Post by jvv » June 12th, 2020, 5:34 pm

jeroeno wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 3:49 pm
Onderhond wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 12:38 pm
Oh :D

Well yeah, people who want revenge their know what to do then!
Just wait with your veto until the end of the round. After that nobody else can cut it anymore :thumbsup:
That's the smart thing to do anyway.

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#556

Post by Onderhond » June 12th, 2020, 5:40 pm

jeroeno wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 3:49 pm
Onderhond wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 12:38 pm
Oh :D

Well yeah, people who want revenge their know what to do then!
Just wait with your veto until the end of the round. After that nobody else can cut it anymore :thumbsup:
Depends on the details of the following rounds. If everyone uses his remaining veto next round, another cutting round may follow? Not entirely certain though, also not invested enough to do put in the effort and do the math 😁

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#557

Post by blocho » June 12th, 2020, 6:18 pm

I think we did the math. If everyone uses their veto next round, there will be 13 movies left. If we then have another round, we'll go down to 2. So two movies will be on the final ballot.

Of course, maybe not everyone uses their veto next round. We might end the next round with 12 or 10 movies.

And that leads to an unresolved question: Which is the final round? There's nothing in the rules in the OP that gives an answer. We could simply say that next round is the last round for cutting, and however many movies are left go into the final round for voting.

My preference would be to have two more rounds of cutting, which would leave us a final round for voting of 2 movies. (This assumes that all vetoes will be used. If they aren't, we will have to adjust).

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#558

Post by Onderhond » June 12th, 2020, 6:39 pm

Yeah, but I'm not following the math or missing something.

There were 16 movies left. I vetoed, which makes it 17 going into next round. 11 will be cut, which leaves 6 remaining films. 6 people still hold vetoes next round, so we get to 12 movies max remaining?

In order to do an actual ballot though, we need at least 13 movies to do another cutting round, so at least 2 remain? So from where I'm standing, no matter what happens, if we want to do a ballot, next round will be the last cutting round no matter what happens.

Again, I could be missing something or glancing over something.

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#559

Post by blocho » June 12th, 2020, 7:23 pm

Onderhond wrote:
June 12th, 2020, 6:39 pm
Yeah, but I'm not following the math or missing something.

There were 16 movies left. I vetoed, which makes it 17 going into next round. 11 will be cut, which leaves 6 remaining films. 6 people still hold vetoes next round, so we get to 12 movies max remaining?

In order to do an actual ballot though, we need at least 13 movies to do another cutting round, so at least 2 remain? So from where I'm standing, no matter what happens, if we want to do a ballot, next round will be the last cutting round no matter what happens.

Again, I could be missing something or glancing over something.
No, you're right. I'm missing something. I thought there were 17 before your cut, but there were actually 16. So next round is definitely the final cutting round. And then we'll vote on 11 movies.


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