AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Rankdown (FINAL RESULTS, #10-#1)

[blocho]

It is puzzling. But I think I have it figured out. Here's my theory: different people have different tastes in movies.

This is a shocking and deeply offensive comment. I DEMAND that you retract it, or I will be forced to leave this forum. If I'm not objectively right about how good or bad a movie is, what is the point in trying to get my unassailably perfect taste to be shared by you lowly cretins?

Ahhhh, Oldy, you crack me up.

[beasterne]

This is tough. I really don't want to have to cut any of these, and I enjoy all of the remaining films for one reason or another. But this round I'm going to cut Double Indemnity

It's a well-executed film noir, definitely one of the classics of the genre. However, I find the relationship at the center of the film a bit too unbelievable. Thinking about it, for me it comes down to the juxtaposition between the cynical attitudes that all noir characters have with the supposed passion the two main characters have for each other. If everyone is so pessimistic and cynical, then it seems weird that you would stick your neck so far out to get involved in a murder plot based on a new relationship. If it was a crime of passion, sure. But I didn't get enough passion from the characters. So it seems a lot more believable to me that they would say, "I stick my neck out for nobody," to each other, and not go through with all the murdering.

A really close call here, but this is the cut I feel strongest about given the films that are left.

AFI List (what's left)

3. Casablanca
5. Singin' in the Rain
11. City Lights
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
18. The General
21. Chinatown
23. The Grapes of Wrath
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
61. Sullivan's Travels
64. Network
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
74. The Silence of the Lambs
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
94. Pulp Fiction
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner

Whose turn is it?

1. toromash (0 vetoes left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (1 veto left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (1 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (0 vetoes left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

[OldAle1]

I think you've hit at what my problem is with that film also - and I do like it a lot, like you, but it's not among my top 10 or maybe even 20 classic-era noir, and that might be why. You remind me of one of the (very many) criticisms of the psychology at work among characters in Atlas Shrugged - the protagonists are all uber-capitalists, they all believe in absolute cut-throat take-no-prisoners behavior in the real world, and yet when they end up in the paradise of Galt's Gulch they're all cooperating and not even trying to step on each others' toes or put each other out of business. It just doesn't work to utterly change characters' morality and ethics that have already been established just to fit your story.

[blocho]

I also think Double Indemnity is a little overrated. It probably makes my list of top 30 noirs but not top 20.

For the third time, I am cutting One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, though this time I feel a little more guilty about it. Even if I don't feel similarly, I appreciate Lauren's deep love for this movie. Perhaps she is not alone. Perhaps some other savior will emerge to ward off my merciless blade.

AFI List (what's left)

3. Casablanca
5. Singin' in the Rain
11. City Lights
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
18. The General
21. Chinatown
23. The Grapes of Wrath
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
61. Sullivan's Travels
64. Network
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
74. The Silence of the Lambs
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
94. Pulp Fiction
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner

Whose turn is it?

1. toromash (0 vetoes left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (1 veto left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (1 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (0 vetoes left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

[mightysparks]

I guess blocho is my enemy now Also lost a few more great films after the last few cuts...

Well, I thought I had rated this film 1/10 and I actually gave it a 2, but it's the worst film still left so... The General. Like other slapstick comedies, it's painfully unfunny and childish. The stunts are 'cool' for its time, but not something that really helps the film at all.

AFI List (what's left)

3. Casablanca
5. Singin' in the Rain
11. City Lights
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
18. The General
21. Chinatown
23. The Grapes of Wrath
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
61. Sullivan's Travels
64. Network
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
74. The Silence of the Lambs
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
94. Pulp Fiction
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner

Whose turn is it?

1. toromash (0 vetoes left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (1 veto left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (1 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (0 vetoes left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

[blocho]

I guess blocho is my enemy now Also lost a few more great films after the last few cuts...

Well, I thought I had rated this film 1/10 and I actually gave it a 2, but it's the worst film still left so... The General. Like other slapstick comedies, it's painfully unfunny and childish. The stunts are 'cool' for its time, but not something that really helps the film at all.

A mortal enemy!

What kind of comedies do you like?

[mightysparks]

I guess blocho is my enemy now Also lost a few more great films after the last few cuts...

Well, I thought I had rated this film 1/10 and I actually gave it a 2, but it's the worst film still left so... The General. Like other slapstick comedies, it's painfully unfunny and childish. The stunts are 'cool' for its time, but not something that really helps the film at all.

A mortal enemy!

What kind of comedies do you like?

Black, awkward, witty/dialogue based ones, I guess.

[sol]

The General. Like other slapstick comedies, it's painfully unfunny and childish. The stunts are 'cool' for its time, but not something that really helps the film at all.

Oh, yes. I approve of this cut. In fact, this is the film that I was planning to cut next round myself. While I actually think that The General is a pretty great film, it is far removed from Keaton's best stuff in my books. I have always found in his short films funnier in general; Keaton usually sets up great gags and set-pieces, but I don't think he carries a feature length film as well as his contemporaries (Lloyd, Chaplin, even Langdon perhaps).

[Onderhond]

Pfoe, I was certain sol was going to save The General. I think it's my favorite Keaton, have been watching some of his shorts these past few months but nothing that comes even close. Ah well, good riddance!

[sol]

Pfoe, I was certain sol was going to save The General. I think it's my favorite Keaton, have been watching some of his shorts these past few months but nothing that comes even close. Ah well, good riddance!

I'm pretty sure that we have had this conversation before on the weekly thread. That's why I predicted earlier on that The General would win this competition as a rare classic that you didn't dislike. I guess I have to place my money on Casablanca now. As far as Keaton goes, One Week is probably my single favourite narrative short film, and there are a bunch of others that aren't far behind. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess.

[Onderhond]

Pfoe, I was certain sol was going to save The General. I think it's my favorite Keaton, have been watching some of his shorts these past few months but nothing that comes even close. Ah well, good riddance!

I'm pretty sure that we have had this conversation before on the weekly thread. That's why I predicted earlier on that The General would win this competition as a rare classic that you didn't dislike. I guess I have to place my money on Casablanca now. As far as Keaton goes, One Week is probably my single favourite narrative short film, and there are a bunch of others that aren't far behind. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess.

I seem to have forgotten about One Week, because I have that rated higher than The General (3.0*). Shorts like The Haunted House, Neighbors and The 'High Sign' were pretty disappointing though. But I did remember you liking his shorts better, just thought you were a bigger Keaton fan in ... general.

[sol]

I did remember you liking his shorts better, just thought you were a bigger Keaton fan in ... general.

Love the pun in that sentence. For what it's worth, The General is an 8/10 for me, and to answer cinewest's question put forth earlier, I think all the remaining films are great... but some are greater than others. I think there's one more 8/10 that I am interested in cutting because I am tired of it topping certain polls, but beyond that it's going to be tough to choose.

[cinewest]

So Sunrise wins the 20’s
City Lights (a silent) wins the 30’s
Do the Right Thing wins the 80’s
Pulp Fiction wins the 90’s
and the other 4 decades have 3 or 4 films remaining.

I like the way this aspect of the game has worked out, where with less than 20 films left, every decade is still represented, and my only dispute might be which films have been chosen to represent.

[beasterne]

So Sunrise wins the 20’s
City Lights (a silent) wins the 30’s
Do the Right Thing wins the 80’s
Pulp Fiction wins the 90’s
and the other 4 decades have 3 or 4 films remaining.

I like the way this aspect of the game has worked out, where with less than 20 films left, every decade is still represented, and my only dispute might be which films have been chosen to represent.

Interesting stats! Thank you for tracking these.

Hopefully mathiasa can check the thread soon to make his cut, and then we’ll be ready for vetoes and round 10!

[cinewest]

Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? 12 Angry Men.

[mathiasa]

Sorry, had an infect and went to hospital. I've chosen Do the right thing. I hope I did.

AFI List (what's left)

3. Casablanca
5. Singin' in the Rain
11. City Lights
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
18. The General
21. Chinatown
23. The Grapes of Wrath
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
61. Sullivan's Travels
64. Network
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
74. The Silence of the Lambs
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
94. Pulp Fiction
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner

Whose turn is it?

1. toromash (0 vetoes left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (1 veto left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (1 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (0 vetoes left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

[cinewest]

And then there were 16.

One more elimination round? Is this the last chance to use vetoes, and can the remaining vetoes be used to resurrect movies that were cut earlier or only in whatever round is current?

[beasterne]

And then there were 16.

One more elimination round? Is this the last chance to use vetoes, and can the remaining vetoes be used to resurrect movies that were cut earlier or only in whatever round is current?

Round 9 is in the books! That is, until the vetoes start to fly.

I'm thinking that the vetoes will be very important right now, so we'll take a full 24 hours to give everyone a chance to use them.

Vetoes can still only resurrect movies cut in Round 9. My guess is that Round 10 will be the last "traditional" round, with Round 11 being the ballot round. But vetoes have a big role to play in how it all shakes out, so things could still change!

[blocho]

So you're saying we can't use vetoes next round? This is our last chance to use a veto?

[jeroeno]

So here are the movies that were cut this round and can be saved by a veto:

14. Psycho
18. The General
29. Double Indemnity
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
46. It Happened One Night
52. Taxi Driver
74. The Silence of the Lambs
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner

[jvv]

So you're saying we can't use vetoes next round? This is our last chance to use a veto?

No, as I understand it you can still use your vetoes next round.

[beasterne]

So you're saying we can't use vetoes next round? This is our last chance to use a veto?

No, as I understand it you can still use your vetoes next round.

Right, vetoes can be used next round as well. The last round to use them is the round before the ballot round.

I'm starting to see a potential strategy arising with the vetoes that may make the last couple of rounds particularly interesting. Not sure if I should say anything now, since people may have been planning their veto usage around this strategy. But it is something that we might need to address in future games if things turn out the way I think they might.

[blocho]

So if we have only one more round before final balloting, that means that of the 17 current movies, 11 be cut and 7 will be saved by veto, leaving a total of 13 movies for the final vote? Of course, that assumes that people use all of their vetoes, which is not guaranteed.

[jeroeno]

If there's 13 films left we'll play another round and the final ballot will only have 3 films

[brokenface]

If there's 13 films left we'll play another round and the final ballot will only have 3 films

11 votes, so 2 films. but what about if we landed with 12 films left, we wouldn't get the ballot round?

[beasterne]

If there's 13 films left we'll play another round and the final ballot will only have 3 films

11 votes, so 2 films. but what about if we landed with 12 films left, we wouldn't get the ballot round?

Yes, with the current rules that's right. Maybe it's not fair, but I think it's probably too late to change things now.

For our next game we can definitely amend the rules to address these possibilities.

[Onderhond]

Guess it's time to start using my vetoes. There was only 1 film in the list that I gave 4*, which is Do the Right Thing. I've seen it long ago, so I'm not even sure the rating will uphold when seeing it again, but without it, I'd hardly have anything to protect, so you're not cutting that yet.

#icmsowhite

[cinewest]

@ Onderhond

Wow, you volunteered a lot of information late in the game for a man in such a position of power (someone with vetoes, who doesn't care at all for more than 95% of the list).

I liked Do the Right Thing most the first time I saw it, when Spike Lee was bringing something fresh to the table (before I started to tire of him), and really cracked through with this one. Alas, it didn't hold up nearly so well upon a second viewing. self-righteous but muddled thinking never leads to anything productive.

[Onderhond]

Did I? Maybe I misread some tactics of the game, but there's only 1 film I care for, which can't be cut next round and which has another 2 rounds of safety because I still hold another veto. Care to fill me in?

[AB537]

Did I? Maybe I misread some tactics of the game, but there's only 1 film I care for, which can't be cut next round and which has another 2 rounds of safety because I still hold another veto. Care to fill me in?

The only player who can't cut it next round is the player whose cut you vetoed.

[Onderhond]

Oh

Well yeah, people who want revenge their know what to do then!

[beasterne]

Round 10 will begin 8 hours from the time of this post (so approximately 9:00 PM GMT! Last call for vetoes this round.

[jeroeno]

Oh

Well yeah, people who want revenge their know what to do then!

Just wait with your veto until the end of the round. After that nobody else can cut it anymore

[jeroeno]

I won't use my veto this round. I love Blade Runner, Silence of the Lambs, Cuckoo's Nest and Double Indemnity but there are two other films I love more. Saving those is more important.

[jvv]

Oh

Well yeah, people who want revenge their know what to do then!

Just wait with your veto until the end of the round. After that nobody else can cut it anymore

That's the smart thing to do anyway.

[Onderhond]

Oh

Well yeah, people who want revenge their know what to do then!

Just wait with your veto until the end of the round. After that nobody else can cut it anymore

Depends on the details of the following rounds. If everyone uses his remaining veto next round, another cutting round may follow? Not entirely certain though, also not invested enough to do put in the effort and do the math

[blocho]

I think we did the math. If everyone uses their veto next round, there will be 13 movies left. If we then have another round, we'll go down to 2. So two movies will be on the final ballot.

Of course, maybe not everyone uses their veto next round. We might end the next round with 12 or 10 movies.

And that leads to an unresolved question: Which is the final round? There's nothing in the rules in the OP that gives an answer. We could simply say that next round is the last round for cutting, and however many movies are left go into the final round for voting.

My preference would be to have two more rounds of cutting, which would leave us a final round for voting of 2 movies. (This assumes that all vetoes will be used. If they aren't, we will have to adjust).

[Onderhond]

Yeah, but I'm not following the math or missing something.

There were 16 movies left. I vetoed, which makes it 17 going into next round. 11 will be cut, which leaves 6 remaining films. 6 people still hold vetoes next round, so we get to 12 movies max remaining?

In order to do an actual ballot though, we need at least 13 movies to do another cutting round, so at least 2 remain? So from where I'm standing, no matter what happens, if we want to do a ballot, next round will be the last cutting round no matter what happens.

Again, I could be missing something or glancing over something.

[blocho]

Yeah, but I'm not following the math or missing something.

There were 16 movies left. I vetoed, which makes it 17 going into next round. 11 will be cut, which leaves 6 remaining films. 6 people still hold vetoes next round, so we get to 12 movies max remaining?

In order to do an actual ballot though, we need at least 13 movies to do another cutting round, so at least 2 remain? So from where I'm standing, no matter what happens, if we want to do a ballot, next round will be the last cutting round no matter what happens.

Again, I could be missing something or glancing over something.

No, you're right. I'm missing something. I thought there were 17 before your cut, but there were actually 16. So next round is definitely the final cutting round. And then we'll vote on 11 movies.

[beasterne]

Round 10 has begun!