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AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Rankdown (FINAL RESULTS, #10-#1)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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beasterne
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#681

Post by beasterne »

Onderhond wrote: June 19th, 2020, 6:28 pm :D

All that hard work ...
I think you did literally all you could, no shame in that :poshclap:
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#682

Post by beasterne »

#8 Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964)
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Directed by: Stanley Kubrick
Votes for first place:
(0)

Edit: Tie-breaker was handled incorrectly, Dr. Strangelove was 8th, not 9th...
Last edited by beasterne on June 20th, 2020, 1:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#683

Post by beasterne »

#7 Apocalypse Now (1979)
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Directed by: Francis Ford Coppola
Votes for first place:
(1): blocho

#6 Sunset Blvd. (1950)
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Directed by: Billy Wilder
Votes for first place:
(1): jvv
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#684

Post by beasterne »

Nobody saw that stealth edit probably :whistling:
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#685

Post by AB537 »

Dr. Strangelove 9th!!! That's a major surprise.
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#686

Post by pitchorneirda »

AB537 wrote: June 19th, 2020, 9:22 pm Dr. Strangelove 9th!!! That's a major surprise.
To me, it's not. I remember a few months ago it almost lost to Jaws in another game, the knockout competition. I'm sticking with my guess made earlier today.
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#687

Post by beasterne »

#5 Pulp Fiction (1994)
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Directed by: Quentin Tarantino
Votes for first place:
(1): jeroeno
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#688

Post by beasterne »

#4 Singin' in the Rain (1952)
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Directed by: Gene Kelly, Stanley Donen
Votes for first place:
(1): sol
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cinewest
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#689

Post by cinewest »

pitchorneirda wrote: June 19th, 2020, 9:25 pm
AB537 wrote: June 19th, 2020, 9:22 pm Dr. Strangelove 9th!!! That's a major surprise.
To me, it's not. I remember a few months ago it almost lost to Jaws in another game, the knockout competition. I'm sticking with my guess made earlier today.
Your guess might be better than mine. Never figured Sunrise into the top 3, though I thought both 2001 and Casablanca would be there. I also didn't figure Singing' in the Rain for top 5 (I thought Kubrick would get 2, though maybe having 2 hurt the chances of 1), but it looks like I got 3 of them.

When I was a wee lad (the 60's), Gone With the Wind was more popular than Casablanca, and pretty much for the same quotable reasons. Both are "failed" romances that "real men" can love, and even though a lot has changed since then, it doesn't seem to have hurt Casablanca, despite neither Bogart nor Bergman hardly resembling any men or women I know, nor the movie having none of the narrative and cinematic reach of a contemporary like Citizen Kane.

I have to admit that Bogart was always my favorite actor from the first wave of sound cinema (Brando took his place later), and mostly because he imbued his characters with a kind of existential individualism that is at the heart of Rick's appeal in Casablanca, but films like Casablanca are seriously dated to me, not only in terms of their scripts, but in terms of their cinema.
Last edited by cinewest on June 20th, 2020, 1:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#690

Post by AB537 »

cinewest wrote: June 19th, 2020, 11:22 pm
pitchorneirda wrote: June 19th, 2020, 9:25 pm
AB537 wrote: June 19th, 2020, 9:22 pm Dr. Strangelove 9th!!! That's a major surprise.
To me, it's not. I remember a few months ago it almost lost to Jaws in another game, the knockout competition. I'm sticking with my guess made earlier today.
Your guess might be better than mine. Never figured Sunrise into the top 3, though I thought both 2001 and Casablanca would be there. I also didn't figure Singing' in the Rain for top 5 (I thought Kubrick would get 2, though maybe having 2 hurt the chances of 1), but it looks like I got 3 of them.
Personally I would have had the top 3 ranked 4th-6th. My top three would have been: 1. Pulp Ficton, 2. Apocalypse Now, 3. Dr. Strangelove
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#691

Post by beasterne »

#3 Casablanca (1942)
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Directed by: Michael Curtiz
Votes for first place:
(2): beasterne, brokenface

What will take first place? Sunrise or 2001? We're about to find out!
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#692

Post by cinewest »

Had no idea Sunrise was this popular, and that is one I have yet to see.
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#693

Post by beasterne »

#2 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)
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Directed by: Stanley Kubrick
Votes for first place:
(2): mightysparks, toromash



#1 Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans (1927)
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Directed by: F.W. Murnau
Votes for first place:
(2): jeff_v, mathiasa


Congratulations to Sunrise, the ultimate champion of our AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Rankdown!
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#694

Post by mightysparks »

Wasn't expecting Sunrise to take it, but no complaints! Pretty sure my top 5 made the top 5 (Dr Strangelove was the only other film I liked that didn't do well) just in slightly different positions so overall good voting.
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#695

Post by beasterne »

Total scores:

Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans 79
2001: A Space Odyssey 71
Casablanca 70
Singin' in the Rain 64
Pulp Fiction 60
Sunset Blvd. 58
Apocalypse Now 54
Dr. Strangelove 52 (0 1st place votes, 2 2nd place votes)
Sullivan's Travels 52 (0 1st place votes, 1 2nd place vote)
Do the Right Thing 44 (45, if toromash gives it a 1 by default)

Average:

Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans 7.18
2001: A Space Odyssey 6.45
Casablanca 6.36
Singin' in the Rain 5.81
Pulp Fiction 5.45
Sunset Blvd. 5.27
Apocalypse Now 4.91
Dr. Strangelove 4.72
Sullivan's Travels 4.72
Do the Right Thing 4.40 (out of 10 rather than 11, since toromash hadn't seen it)

Standard Deviation:

Singin' in the Rain 3.13
2001: A Space Odyssey 3.11
Sullivan's Travels 2.93
Casablanca 2.84
Apocalypse Now 2.81
Do the Right Thing 2.76
Pulp Fiction 2.57
Sunset Blvd. 2.41
Dr. Strangelove 2.37
Sunrise 2.08
Last edited by beasterne on June 20th, 2020, 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#696

Post by jeff_v »

Sweet, my favorite film left, and one of my all-time top-ten, won!
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#697

Post by cinewest »

Well you can probably thank Onderhond for 2001 finishing second rather than first (I thought Casablanca would win, but I was spot on with 2001 and Pulp Fiction).

The exaggerated acting stye of silent cinema (exemplified in the still of Sunrise) is one of the things that has always put me off, some. I do like Chaplin a fair bit when I am in the right mood, but the vast majority of films I am drawn to were made in the late 50's onward when the awareness and sophistication of the medium became a lot more commonplace
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#698

Post by beasterne »

Oops! I realized I was reading my spreadsheet wrong and mixed up the tiebreaker for Dr. Strangelove and Sullivan's Travels. So those flip-flopped, with Sullivan's Travels at 9 and Dr. Strangelove at 8. But other than that small hiccup I think everything else is correct.

Thank you to all the players! Everyone was great about checking the thread and keeping the game moving, and I really enjoyed the discussions about the reasons for the cuts. Another thank you to all the observers who followed along and shared their own thoughts and opinions. Plus, shoutout to cinewest for tracking stats along the way. Running this game was a lot of fun, and I'm looking forward to starting our second rankdown soon!
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#699

Post by blocho »

I would call that an upset. I never thought of Sunrise as a serious contender. But perhaps it's appropriate as a movie that no one really dislikes.
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#700

Post by AB537 »

No complaints about Sunrise winning from me. While silent films are typically not really my thing - I actually find it tough to get into much pre-1940 content - Sunrise, to me, is one of the few standouts of that era of filmmaking. A fantastic movie that blew my away when I first saw it about 2.5 years ago, and one that I'd gladly rewatch. Nothing against 2001, it's also a great film, but I do enjoy when it's beaten out in one of ICM's polls/competitions, especially if the winner is a worthy contender and a bit of a surprise, like Sunrise here, or The Good, the Bad and the Ugly in our knockout poll last year.
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#701

Post by joachimt »

beasterne wrote: June 20th, 2020, 1:30 am Standard Deviation:
Sunset 2.08
Is this a sequel to Sunrise I haven't heard of? :rolleyes:
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#702

Post by Onderhond »

I admit to strategic voting this time around, although I don't think it would've made a big difference, because the only thing I did was move 2001 from 7 to 10. People ruined so many of my cuts that it simply couldn't win! I also had Sunrise at spot 2, so my list really made a big difference, but I feel Sunrise belonged there. Hadn't expected it to win though.

This was fun, thanks for organizing beasterne!
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#703

Post by brokenface »

Nice, yeah I expected 2001 to win, as it usually does win anything here, so pleasant surprise for something else to take it. Sunrise successfully stayed under the radar and must not have had any strong dislikes amongst this group.
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#704

Post by brokenface »

cinewest wrote: June 20th, 2020, 1:34 amThe exaggerated acting stye of silent cinema (exemplified in the still of Sunrise) is one of the things that has always put me off, some. I do like Chaplin a fair bit when I am in the right mood, but the vast majority of films I am drawn to were made in the late 50's onward when the awareness and sophistication of the medium became a lot more commonplace
I will admit sometimes I struggle with that aspect too, but in the best examples of silent dramas (like Sunrise, or Napoleon), the visual inventiveness can more than make up for it. And the acting is something you can calibrate to the more silents you see, some are lot more naturalistic than others.
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#705

Post by cinewest »

brokenface wrote: June 20th, 2020, 9:06 am
cinewest wrote: June 20th, 2020, 1:34 amThe exaggerated acting stye of silent cinema (exemplified in the still of Sunrise) is one of the things that has always put me off, some. I do like Chaplin a fair bit when I am in the right mood, but the vast majority of films I am drawn to were made in the late 50's onward when the awareness and sophistication of the medium became a lot more commonplace
I will admit sometimes I struggle with that aspect too, but in the best examples of silent dramas (like Sunrise, or Napoleon), the visual inventiveness can more than make up for it. And the acting is something you can calibrate to the more silents you see, some are lot more naturalistic than others.
There are times when I can get in the mood for a silent film, and speaking of Napoleon, I can still remember seeing a remastered print at a classic old theater in San Francisco with a live music score to the film. No doubt I could find just the right moment to appreciate Sunrise, as well, but it is not what I am typically attracted to about cinema. Earlier today, I wrote in another thread that it is the audio-visual tapestry of cinema and a filmmakers ability to weave magic with it that I find most inspiring, though the film historian in me also steps out at times, as does the kind of nostalgia that still allows me to take pleasure in certain Hollywood classics.

I don't dislike any of the films in the top 10, and would only give a thumbs down to few from the list as a whole (At the same time, I only a few are really inspiring to me, even as I probably have dvd copies of about 1/3 of the list).

Fun exercise though, especially when adopting more of a "game player's perspective, and I liked that the top 5 featured films from different decades.
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#706

Post by Onderhond »

As someone who largely agree with your take on cinema, I actually think most silent are way more interesting in that aspect. The introduction of sound brought a much bigger focus on dialogue and characters, taking away from the visual expression.
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#707

Post by cinewest »

Onderhond wrote: June 20th, 2020, 10:02 am As someone who largely agree with your take on cinema, I actually think most silent are way more interesting in that aspect. The introduction of sound brought a much bigger focus on dialogue and characters, taking away from the visual expression.
That's true in a big way of Hollywood sound films (which borrowed heavily from the theater), but the most interesting sound films are not overly oriented toward dialogue, and not only make use of silence, but other aspects of the soundscape. This is particularly true of some Asian cinema which has turned the ambient sound track into an art form. I might reference Hou Hsiao Hsien's Three Times, here as evidence of what I am talking about. Music tracks can also be an art form in themselves, and I consider the sound mix a key aspect of more sophisticated cinema (and, here, I am not referring to the typical Hollywood high volume audio overload).
The visual narrative and technique is even more important, and is mostly supported by the audio track, but the majority of films are rather uninspired, mundane (simply supporting the script), or copycat, and the visuals tend to operate mostly on the surface layer without evoking nearly what they could.

An example of top tier filmmaking on an audio-visual level is something like Kieslowski's Blue. Here's a short review I wrote a few years back:

The "beauty" of Kieslowski's later works has little to do with "pretty pictures," but everything to do with his cinematic imagination, as well as his ability to tap into and enrich the emotional, spiritual, and aesthetic content of his work.

The opening sequence to "Blue," involving the family car passing through a tunnel, as we are immersed in the ambient sounds (hearing bits of familial conversation, viewing the swish of vehicles and splash of lights through the window), followed by the passage into late afternoon light (and the silvery blue balloon being sucked out the side window flapping in the breeze), just before the accident, is as astounding in its beauty as it is penetrating in its content....

This film is resplendent with cinematic sequences as unique and profound as its opening, and, throughout," Kieslowski's use of sound as a way to access Binoche's interior process is absolutely brilliant. Witness the sequence, when she finally feels able to step out into the world again and move into the city after the accident. She rents an apartment on an upper floor of a large, strange vacuous building, and there, that first night, through her window, witnesses the beating of a man on the street, who escapes and runs into her building, the fear on her face, as she listens to him climb the long metal escape stairway, floor by floor, still followed by his assailants, as he comes closer to her....

But it is not only the imagery (Binoche blurry through window, staring vacantly somewhere as she experiences intimate relations for the first time since the accident), or ambient sound (the sudden clamor and echo of the indoor swimming pool as she comes up for air from under water) that reflects the nature of her psyche, but Preisner's haunting music that simultaneously takes us back to her husband and her tragedy, as much as towards her recovery of self as she engages her creative process.

She is a woman who has lived in the shadow of her husband, while yet participating in the creation of the very music he is famous for, and as the music enters the film, each time, it is her reflecting on and coming to terms with all that it represents to her, including, finally, the bridge to her salvation....

This is not a typical Hollywood redemption tale handing us the standard prescription for such a tale of woe, no "how to reclaim your power as a woman course 101." This is a tale of truth, and we believe Binoche every time she makes a decision because we are not only privy to her experience, but fully involved in the process of transformation that becomes her liberation.
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#708

Post by brokenface »

cinewest wrote: June 20th, 2020, 9:58 am
brokenface wrote: June 20th, 2020, 9:06 am
cinewest wrote: June 20th, 2020, 1:34 amThe exaggerated acting stye of silent cinema (exemplified in the still of Sunrise) is one of the things that has always put me off, some. I do like Chaplin a fair bit when I am in the right mood, but the vast majority of films I am drawn to were made in the late 50's onward when the awareness and sophistication of the medium became a lot more commonplace
I will admit sometimes I struggle with that aspect too, but in the best examples of silent dramas (like Sunrise, or Napoleon), the visual inventiveness can more than make up for it. And the acting is something you can calibrate to the more silents you see, some are lot more naturalistic than others.
There are times when I can get in the mood for a silent film, and speaking of Napoleon, I can still remember seeing a remastered print at a classic old theater in San Francisco with a live music score to the film.
:cheers: we had an ICM forum trip to see it in London at the Royal Festival hall ~2013 w/ Carl Davis conducting, was it same sort of time when they were touring that restoration?
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#709

Post by cinewest »

brokenface wrote: June 20th, 2020, 12:29 pm
cinewest wrote: June 20th, 2020, 9:58 am
brokenface wrote: June 20th, 2020, 9:06 am

I will admit sometimes I struggle with that aspect too, but in the best examples of silent dramas (like Sunrise, or Napoleon), the visual inventiveness can more than make up for it. And the acting is something you can calibrate to the more silents you see, some are lot more naturalistic than others.
There are times when I can get in the mood for a silent film, and speaking of Napoleon, I can still remember seeing a remastered print at a classic old theater in San Francisco with a live music score to the film.
:cheers: we had an ICM forum trip to see it in London at the Royal Festival hall ~2013 w/ Carl Davis conducting, was it same sort of time when they were touring that restoration?
The restoration I saw was at least 10 years earlier, but these kinds of projects tend to make the rounds, passing between cinematheques, and museums until they wind up in a film archive until requisitioned by some astute programmer
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#710

Post by brokenface »

Well Napoleon is a particular case, with the different cuts out there, don't think Brownlow's version with full triptych got shown in US before 2012 due to the rights issues with Coppola
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#711

Post by cinewest »

brokenface wrote: June 20th, 2020, 1:35 pm Well Napoleon is a particular case, with the different cuts out there, don't think Brownlow's version with full triptych got shown in US before 2012 due to the rights issues with Coppola
You're right. I had to look it up, and found it was presented in March 2012, despite what my memory was saying:

https://www.in70mm.com/news/2011/oakland/index.htm
Last edited by cinewest on June 20th, 2020, 3:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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#712

Post by beasterne »

joachimt wrote: June 20th, 2020, 7:24 am
beasterne wrote: June 20th, 2020, 1:30 am Standard Deviation:
Sunset 2.08
Is this a sequel to Sunrise I haven't heard of? :rolleyes:
Haha, oops! Thanks for catching that :lol:
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#713

Post by Onderhond »

cinewest wrote: June 20th, 2020, 11:41 am That's true in a big way of Hollywood sound films (which borrowed heavily from the theater)
Well yes, I was mostly talking in reference to classics from the 30s-50s. I generally love films that do something unique with their soundtrack and think it's one of the worst explored or most underrated elements of cinema. No need to convince me :)
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#714

Post by mathiasa »

It was a fantastic game, I liked it a lot. Sorry, for the health-related delays I caused.

I'm actually not surprised that Sunrise did win this game, I expected it as it has won some polls before (the awards game and I guess the silent poll at one time or maybe the 20s poll) and as I had great trust in you guys. But I didn't say anything beforehand because I didn't want it to suffer from strategic voting. I somehow felt people weren't giving it the respect it deserved and I wanted to stay things at that.

It's not true that underhound is responsible for sunrise being #1, just look at that point difference, 2001 got literally crushed. And rightly so, these two movie are not in the same league. Though I like 2001. I also highly doubt that it won because "nobody had something against it": it's one of my all time favorites and jeff_v also had it on the top of his list. It's a movie that is loved by a lot of people. What I'm surprised about is that Sullivan's Travel made it only to #8, it got a veto from jvv and myself and it's a really good entertaining movie. Also happy that my cut ended up #10, though I liked this movie as well, it's sympathetic. Wonderful, how all ended up my way. We need more games like this!!
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#715

Post by prodigalgodson »

cinewest wrote: June 20th, 2020, 3:02 pm
brokenface wrote: June 20th, 2020, 1:35 pm Well Napoleon is a particular case, with the different cuts out there, don't think Brownlow's version with full triptych got shown in US before 2012 due to the rights issues with Coppola
You're right. I had to look it up, and found it was presented in March 2012, despite what my memory was saying:

https://www.in70mm.com/news/2011/oakland/index.htm
Hey, we may've been at the same showing!
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#716

Post by cinewest »

prodigalgodson wrote: June 22nd, 2020, 2:12 am
cinewest wrote: June 20th, 2020, 3:02 pm
brokenface wrote: June 20th, 2020, 1:35 pm Well Napoleon is a particular case, with the different cuts out there, don't think Brownlow's version with full triptych got shown in US before 2012 due to the rights issues with Coppola
You're right. I had to look it up, and found it was presented in March 2012, despite what my memory was saying:

https://www.in70mm.com/news/2011/oakland/index.htm
Hey, we may've been at the same showing!
We had to have crossed paths at least once at a Bay Area screening, even though most of my SF / East Bay attendance was during the 80's and early 90's, and I was living in the North Bay from the late 90's through 2010, where The Rafael was my "go to" theater (used to attend the Mill Valley Film Festival every year, as well as the SF Intenational). I still made it out to the PFA and to SF on occasion for other special screenings like Napoleon. :cheers:
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#717

Post by jeroeno »

So when is the next game?
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#718

Post by beasterne »

jeroeno wrote: June 22nd, 2020, 7:32 am So when is the next game?
I'm kicking it off today! Check out the new topic I just created :)
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