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AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Rankdown (Round 7, #46-#36)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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brokenface
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Re: AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Rankdown (Round 4, #72-#62)

#281

Post by brokenface » May 23rd, 2020, 9:32 am

Time to knock out Rocky. It's a perfectly passable sports drama shot in a 70s aesthetic that I like, indeed probably one of the better ones in the genre, but out of its league amongst most of the films remaining. And it still irks that it beat Network, All the President's Men and Taxi Driver to the Oscar that year. Barring a veto, at least it will be beaten by all three here (Bound for Glory is better too).
AFI listShow
1. Citizen Kane
2. The Godfather
3. Casablanca
4. Raging Bull
5. Singin' in the Rain
6. Gone with the Wind
7. Lawrence of Arabia
8. Schindler's List
9. Vertigo
10. The Wizard of Oz
11. City Lights
12. The Searchers
13. Star Wars
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
17. The Graduate
18. The General
19. On the Waterfront
20. It's a Wonderful Life
21. Chinatown
22. Some Like It Hot
23. The Grapes of Wrath
24. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
25. To Kill a Mockingbird
26. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
27. High Noon
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
31. The Maltese Falcon
32. The Godfather: Part II
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
34. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
35. Annie Hall
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
40. The Sound of Music
41. King Kong
42. Bonnie and Clyde
43. Midnight Cowboy
44. The Philadelphia Story
45. Shane
46. It Happened One Night
47. A Streetcar Named Desire
48. Rear Window
49. Intolerance: Love's Struggle throughout the Ages
50. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
51. West Side Story
52. Taxi Driver
53. The Deer Hunter
54. MASH
55. North by Northwest
56. Jaws
57. Rocky
58. The Gold Rush
59. Nashville
60. Duck Soup
61. Sullivan's Travels
62. American Graffiti
63. Cabaret
64. Network
65. The African Queen
66. Raiders of the Lost Ark
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
68. Unforgiven
69. Tootsie
70. A Clockwork Orange
71. Saving Private Ryan
72. The Shawshank Redemption
73. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
74. The Silence of the Lambs
75. In the Heat of the Night
76. Forrest Gump
77. All the President's Men
78. Modern Times
79. The Wild Bunch
80. The Apartment
81. Spartacus
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
83. Titanic
84. Easy Rider
85. A Night at the Opera
86. Platoon
87. 12 Angry Men
88. Bringing up Baby
89. The Sixth Sense
90. Swing Time
91. Sophie's Choice
92. Goodfellas
93. The French Connection
94. Pulp Fiction
95. The Last Picture Show
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
98. Yankee Doodle Dandy
99. Toy Story
100. Ben-Hur

Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash
2. sol
3. Onderhond
4. jeff_v
5. jeroeno
6. jvv
7. brokenface
8. beasterne
9. blocho
10. mightysparks
11. mathiasa

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#282

Post by blocho » May 23rd, 2020, 1:11 pm

Rocky is a pretty good sports drama (that deserves to get cut). Although I don't think it's as good as a sports drama as Rocky III is as an unintentional sports comedy. One of the best unintentional comedies I've ever seen, actually.

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#283

Post by OldAle1 » May 23rd, 2020, 1:40 pm

Never saw any of the Rocky sequels (except Creed if that counts); probably won't ever get to them unless I lose my mind and decide to try to complete the box-office lists or something. And I like the original film quite a bit actually though I wouldn't veto it's cutting if I were playing. Stallone...eh.

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#284

Post by AB537 » May 23rd, 2020, 1:42 pm

cinewest wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 8:27 am

Oh yeah, sappy Shane is a real doozy, in the same camp as Rocky, for me, and the very definition of "meh." I'm still trying to figure out how any of these are preferred to the Godfather.
Totally agree on this one. If I was in the game, the Godfather is one of two movies where I would have struggled not to use a veto - North by Northwest being the other. Shane is one of those films whose acclaim, both when it came out and now, mystifies me. For me, it wasn't really bad, but nor did it particularly stand out except as a disappointment after reading so many good things (and perhaps better than any other George Stevens film I've seen except A Place in the Sun, in my view his only good one). But this list thrives off sentimentality and intense nostalgia for a certain type of Golden Age Hollywood movie, and Shane is a perfect example of this.

More generally, I find the selection of westerns on this list to be fairly strange: if I was going to pick 5 American westerns, and assuming Leone's stuff wasn't eligible, the only ones on this list I'd even consider would be The Wild Bunch and Unforgiven, and neither would be likely to make the cut for me. High Noon is decent but nowhere near this level, I've said enough about Shane already, and The Searchers for me is one of the most inexplicably highly rated movies of all time. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and Rio Bravo are far superior to any of these, and I'd also be looking at some Anthony Mann stuff or some of Ford's other collaborations with Jimmy Stewart and/or John Wayne. Probably others I'm not currently thinking of too.

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#285

Post by OldAle1 » May 23rd, 2020, 2:34 pm

Good post AB. Count me as another non-fan of Shane - though I do remember it being rather nice-looking, and Ladd and Palance are both fine in it.

As to why those particular westerns are there, I think it's clear that the AFI is trying very hard to build lists that are as mainstream and populist and average-Joe-friendly as possible; nearly everything is an Oscar nominee or winner, or a box office hit that is still popular today and generally acclaimed. There are very few exceptions - Vertigo and Blade Runner, not much else. And those are films that obviously have developed enormous critical cachet over the decades, to the point where the average casual renter at Blockbuster (when the list was first made) or Netflix viewer today probably would be surprised that they weren't big hits or Best Pic nominees. If I had to pick one word to use for the AFI lists - a word which I wouldn't be surprised to find was used by those in charge of the lists - it'd be "unsurprising". Which is probably a good thing for a person who hasn't seen all the classics yet but mostly likes them, but equates to bland for most of us seasoned viewers (those that don't find it downright awful, that is).

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#286

Post by Onderhond » May 23rd, 2020, 3:48 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 2:34 pm
as mainstream and populist and average-Joe-friendly as possible
I honestly don't think many mainstream viewers/average Joes are going to find much to like here. Oscar winners are already pretty "arthouse" for the average Joe. Looks more like a list for the average-joe-turned-novice-film-fan who doesn't want to try international films just yet.

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#287

Post by OldAle1 » May 23rd, 2020, 4:01 pm

Onderhond wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:48 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 2:34 pm
as mainstream and populist and average-Joe-friendly as possible
I honestly don't think many mainstream viewers/average Joes are going to find much to like here. Oscar winners are already pretty "arthouse" for the average Joe. Looks more like a list for the average-joe-turned-novice-film-fan who doesn't want to try international films just yet.
Well, yeah. I guess the truly "average" movie watcher doesn't really look at lists like the AFI - or any lists, really, except maybe the current box office and RT or Metacritic scores. My brother for example.

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#288

Post by beasterne » May 23rd, 2020, 4:29 pm

It seems like this is the round to cut good-not-great movies. So I'll continue that trend by cutting The Graduate. Other than the soundtrack, which is excellent (although it doesn't fit with the rest of the film in my opinion) there is nothing of note in this movie. This is the American Beauty of the 1960s--it probably felt very important and relevant at the time, but hasn't really held up in the years since.


AFI listShow
1. Citizen Kane
2. The Godfather
3. Casablanca
4. Raging Bull
5. Singin' in the Rain
6. Gone with the Wind
7. Lawrence of Arabia
8. Schindler's List
9. Vertigo
10. The Wizard of Oz
11. City Lights
12. The Searchers
13. Star Wars
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
17. The Graduate
18. The General
19. On the Waterfront
20. It's a Wonderful Life
21. Chinatown
22. Some Like It Hot
23. The Grapes of Wrath
24. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
25. To Kill a Mockingbird
26. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
27. High Noon
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
31. The Maltese Falcon
32. The Godfather: Part II
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
34. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
35. Annie Hall
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
40. The Sound of Music
41. King Kong
42. Bonnie and Clyde
43. Midnight Cowboy
44. The Philadelphia Story
45. Shane
46. It Happened One Night
47. A Streetcar Named Desire
48. Rear Window
49. Intolerance: Love's Struggle throughout the Ages
50. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
51. West Side Story
52. Taxi Driver
53. The Deer Hunter
54. MASH
55. North by Northwest
56. Jaws
57. Rocky
58. The Gold Rush
59. Nashville
60. Duck Soup
61. Sullivan's Travels
62. American Graffiti
63. Cabaret
64. Network
65. The African Queen
66. Raiders of the Lost Ark
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
68. Unforgiven
69. Tootsie
70. A Clockwork Orange
71. Saving Private Ryan
72. The Shawshank Redemption
73. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
74. The Silence of the Lambs
75. In the Heat of the Night
76. Forrest Gump
77. All the President's Men
78. Modern Times
79. The Wild Bunch
80. The Apartment
81. Spartacus
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
83. Titanic
84. Easy Rider
85. A Night at the Opera
86. Platoon
87. 12 Angry Men
88. Bringing up Baby
89. The Sixth Sense
90. Swing Time
91. Sophie's Choice
92. Goodfellas
93. The French Connection
94. Pulp Fiction
95. The Last Picture Show
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
98. Yankee Doodle Dandy
99. Toy Story
100. Ben-Hur

Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash
2. sol
3. Onderhond
4. jeff_v
5. jeroeno
6. jvv
7. brokenface
8. beasterne
9. blocho
10. mightysparks
11. mathiasa

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#289

Post by OldAle1 » May 23rd, 2020, 4:30 pm

beasterne wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:29 pm
This is the American Beauty of the 1960s

:thumbsup:

Exactly my feelings (about both films).

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#290

Post by sol » May 23rd, 2020, 4:36 pm

beasterne wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:29 pm
It seems like this is the round to cut good-not-great movies. So I'll continue that trend by cutting The Graduate.
THANK YOU. :poshclap: That was one of the half-dozen films that I was considering cutting next, so glad that I'm not the only person who did not find it to be the bee's knees. I actually think it is a quite well directed and edited film, with some top notch framing and scene transitions, but the second half of the film (where he pursues the daughter) has always been a big letdown for me and I have never really understood all the praise.
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#291

Post by jeroeno » May 23rd, 2020, 4:38 pm

Yup, excellent choice.

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#292

Post by blocho » May 23rd, 2020, 4:40 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:30 pm
beasterne wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:29 pm
This is the American Beauty of the 1960s
:thumbsup:

Exactly my feelings (about both films).
Yeah, you nailed that comparison. Never thought of the two together before, but they're both trying to gesture towards a rebellious attitude to American society without actually having any strong convictions.

The Graduate had the "plastics" conversation. That was amusing, but that's it. There's nothing else interesting in that movie. There are certain highly praised movies that I hate, but I understand why some people love them (Gone with the Wind, The Sound of Music). Then there are movies that are a bit fat nothing. I watch them, find them instantly forgettable, and I just don't see what others see in them. The Graduate is one of those.

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#293

Post by beasterne » May 23rd, 2020, 4:45 pm

Wow, this is one of the most praised cuts of this whole exercise. Now I'm just amused at how long it lasted :D

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#294

Post by blocho » May 23rd, 2020, 4:52 pm

Well, we've reached the stage where there are no movies left that I dislike. But there are still several that I find boring, unremarkable, or overrated. In the last category falls One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, which is my next cut. I can't say much more about this movie than that it left me very underwhelmed. And it shouldn't have. I love 70s Jack Nicholson. I love young Danny DeVito. And I am firmly anti-psychiatry. But it doesn't help that I saw the stage version, with Gary Sinise in the lead (he nailed it). I thought that show crackled with energy and tension. I thought this one didn't.

AFI listShow
1. Citizen Kane
2. The Godfather
3. Casablanca
4. Raging Bull
5. Singin' in the Rain
6. Gone with the Wind
7. Lawrence of Arabia
8. Schindler's List
9. Vertigo
10. The Wizard of Oz
11. City Lights
12. The Searchers
13. Star Wars
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
17. The Graduate
18. The General
19. On the Waterfront
20. It's a Wonderful Life
21. Chinatown
22. Some Like It Hot
23. The Grapes of Wrath
24. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
25. To Kill a Mockingbird
26. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
27. High Noon
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
31. The Maltese Falcon
32. The Godfather: Part II
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
34. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
35. Annie Hall
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
40. The Sound of Music
41. King Kong
42. Bonnie and Clyde
43. Midnight Cowboy
44. The Philadelphia Story
45. Shane
46. It Happened One Night
47. A Streetcar Named Desire
48. Rear Window
49. Intolerance: Love's Struggle throughout the Ages
50. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
51. West Side Story
52. Taxi Driver
53. The Deer Hunter
54. MASH
55. North by Northwest
56. Jaws
57. Rocky
58. The Gold Rush
59. Nashville
60. Duck Soup
61. Sullivan's Travels
62. American Graffiti
63. Cabaret
64. Network
65. The African Queen
66. Raiders of the Lost Ark
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
68. Unforgiven
69. Tootsie
70. A Clockwork Orange
71. Saving Private Ryan
72. The Shawshank Redemption
73. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
74. The Silence of the Lambs
75. In the Heat of the Night
76. Forrest Gump
77. All the President's Men
78. Modern Times
79. The Wild Bunch
80. The Apartment
81. Spartacus
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
83. Titanic
84. Easy Rider
85. A Night at the Opera
86. Platoon
87. 12 Angry Men
88. Bringing up Baby
89. The Sixth Sense
90. Swing Time
91. Sophie's Choice
92. Goodfellas
93. The French Connection
94. Pulp Fiction
95. The Last Picture Show
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
98. Yankee Doodle Dandy
99. Toy Story
100. Ben-Hur

Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash
2. sol
3. Onderhond
4. jeff_v
5. jeroeno
6. jvv
7. brokenface
8. beasterne
9. blocho
10. mightysparks
11. mathiasa

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#295

Post by brokenface » May 23rd, 2020, 6:59 pm

ooh that's a testing one, I do like Cuckoo's Nest a lot. not going to veto though.

The Graduate, yeah I'm with the general 'good not great'.

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#296

Post by PGonzalez » May 23rd, 2020, 7:34 pm

beasterne wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:29 pm
It seems like this is the round to cut good-not-great movies. So I'll continue that trend by cutting The Graduate. Other than the soundtrack, which is excellent (although it doesn't fit with the rest of the film in my opinion) there is nothing of note in this movie. This is the American Beauty of the 1960s--it probably felt very important and relevant at the time, but hasn't really held up in the years since.
Not sure if you saw it, but Elaine May's The Heartbreak Kid felt like a much better treatment of The Graduate's bourgeoisie satire and themes of loneliness and fear of settling down, albeit with diameterally opposed main characters.

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#297

Post by joachimt » May 23rd, 2020, 7:53 pm

blocho wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:52 pm
Well, we've reached the stage where there are no movies left that I dislike.
You still had movies you dislike?
I thought most people were only removing movies they didn't feel they belong to the canon, don't consider top tier, etc......
I don't have any dislikes on this list. I have 52 favorites though. I'm glad I'm not participating in this game. I probably shouldn't even read this topic. It can be depressing......
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#298

Post by beasterne » May 23rd, 2020, 8:00 pm

PGonzalez wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 7:34 pm
beasterne wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:29 pm
It seems like this is the round to cut good-not-great movies. So I'll continue that trend by cutting The Graduate. Other than the soundtrack, which is excellent (although it doesn't fit with the rest of the film in my opinion) there is nothing of note in this movie. This is the American Beauty of the 1960s--it probably felt very important and relevant at the time, but hasn't really held up in the years since.
Not sure if you saw it, but Elaine May's The Heartbreak Kid felt like a much better treatment of The Graduate's bourgeoisie satire and themes of loneliness and fear of settling down, albeit with diameterally opposed main characters.
Thanks for the recommendation! I think I’ve heard the title of this movie before, but I don’t know anything else about it. I’ll be sure to check it out.

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#299

Post by OldAle1 » May 23rd, 2020, 8:00 pm

joachimt wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 7:53 pm
blocho wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:52 pm
Well, we've reached the stage where there are no movies left that I dislike.
You still had movies you dislike?
I thought most people were only removing movies they didn't feel they belong to the canon, don't consider top tier, etc......
I don't have any dislikes on this list. I have 52 favorites though. I'm glad I'm not participating in this game. I probably shouldn't even read this topic. It can be depressing......
Heh. I'm exactly where you are - actually, a bit more generous with 60 favorites. But of the other 40 there are plenty that while not in the "dislike" category (1-4) are in the "mediocre" or "ok" (5-6) area, and those that I'd rate 7-8 are all fine but... top 100 all-time American films? Naaahhh. So to me there would have been 40 easy cuts, even if I actually like most of those.

I often feel the same way and get tired of reading all the negativity about stuff I love, but I figure it's good for me to see the other side sometimes. I just hope that the next rankdown gives us a list that's a little more interesting, though I guess if a major criterion is that most people will have seen most of the films, there's a limit to how interesting it can be.

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#300

Post by OldAle1 » May 23rd, 2020, 8:03 pm

beasterne wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 8:00 pm
PGonzalez wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 7:34 pm
beasterne wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:29 pm
It seems like this is the round to cut good-not-great movies. So I'll continue that trend by cutting The Graduate. Other than the soundtrack, which is excellent (although it doesn't fit with the rest of the film in my opinion) there is nothing of note in this movie. This is the American Beauty of the 1960s--it probably felt very important and relevant at the time, but hasn't really held up in the years since.
Not sure if you saw it, but Elaine May's The Heartbreak Kid felt like a much better treatment of The Graduate's bourgeoisie satire and themes of loneliness and fear of settling down, albeit with diameterally opposed main characters.
Thanks for the recommendation! I think I’ve heard the title of this movie before, but I don’t know anything else about it. I’ll be sure to check it out.
I second that rec, very enthusiastically. I love the three of May's four films I've seen (still haven't gotten to Ishtar) but I think The Heartbreak Kid might be the best. I wonder if Ricky Gervais thinks highly of it as well...some of the uncomfortable ways it's designed to make us feel and some elements in Charles Grodin's character definitely remind me of things in The Office.

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#301

Post by blocho » May 23rd, 2020, 8:06 pm

joachimt wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 7:53 pm
blocho wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:52 pm
Well, we've reached the stage where there are no movies left that I dislike.
You still had movies you dislike?
I thought most people were only removing movies they didn't feel they belong to the canon, don't consider top tier, etc......
I don't have any dislikes on this list. I have 52 favorites though. I'm glad I'm not participating in this game. I probably shouldn't even read this topic. It can be depressing......
I think I'm more positive than most here. Of the 100 on the list, I think about 60 are good to great movies. I would say I only dislike 17 of the movies. But please note, those are general descriptions. I don't rate movies on a scale like many fellow forum members.

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#302

Post by AB537 » May 23rd, 2020, 8:46 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:01 pm
Onderhond wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:48 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 2:34 pm
as mainstream and populist and average-Joe-friendly as possible
I honestly don't think many mainstream viewers/average Joes are going to find much to like here. Oscar winners are already pretty "arthouse" for the average Joe. Looks more like a list for the average-joe-turned-novice-film-fan who doesn't want to try international films just yet.
Well, yeah. I guess the truly "average" movie watcher doesn't really look at lists like the AFI - or any lists, really, except maybe the current box office and RT or Metacritic scores. My brother for example.
Ultimately I think this list is best viewed as a gateway into classic American films. There are a bunch of great ones, a bunch of good ones, and some that don't really work for me - based on this thread I suspect several others on ICM would view the list similarly, although which films each of us would slot into which category would probably vary a lot. At this point I've seen all but Intolerance from the list, and the only ones the existence of this list may have nudged me into seeing, at least earlier than I otherwise would have, are Yankee Doodle Dandy and Swing Time. Ironically, I think those are probably two of the weakest films on the list. Perhaps this is the result of musicals generally not really being my thing, or maybe it's something else.

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#303

Post by OldAle1 » May 23rd, 2020, 10:41 pm

AB537 wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 8:46 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 4:01 pm
Onderhond wrote:
May 23rd, 2020, 3:48 pm

I honestly don't think many mainstream viewers/average Joes are going to find much to like here. Oscar winners are already pretty "arthouse" for the average Joe. Looks more like a list for the average-joe-turned-novice-film-fan who doesn't want to try international films just yet.
Well, yeah. I guess the truly "average" movie watcher doesn't really look at lists like the AFI - or any lists, really, except maybe the current box office and RT or Metacritic scores. My brother for example.
Ultimately I think this list is best viewed as a gateway into classic American films. There are a bunch of great ones, a bunch of good ones, and some that don't really work for me - based on this thread I suspect several others on ICM would view the list similarly, although which films each of us would slot into which category would probably vary a lot. At this point I've seen all but Intolerance from the list, and the only ones the existence of this list may have nudged me into seeing, at least earlier than I otherwise would have, are Yankee Doodle Dandy and Swing Time. Ironically, I think those are probably two of the weakest films on the list. Perhaps this is the result of musicals generally not really being my thing, or maybe it's something else.
Ehh, I think Yankee Doodle Dandy has aged poorly for most people, including musical-lovers like me. Want a great Cagney musical? Footlight Parade is your ticket. Swing Time I like a lot, but I like all the Astaire-Rogers films; they do tend to kind of blur if I haven't seen them recently though.

Yeah the list overall is exactly what you suggest, and for someone like me who had already seen thousands of American films before the lists originally came out, it's pretty useless, but I suppose for someone brand-new to classic Hollywood there are worse lists out there.

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#304

Post by mightysparks » May 23rd, 2020, 11:54 pm

Well I’m definitely using a veto for Cuckoo’s Nest since it’s the best movie ever made...

The Graduate is another film that I loved the first time (I gave it a 10!) and was really disappointed with on a rewatch a few years ago. I don’t even know what I liked about it initially. I didn’t find any of it funny and it felt stale. The relationship between Hoffman and everyone else was just creepy and not amusing or interesting. Some nice shots and a great soundtrack but not enough to hold the whole thing together.
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#305

Post by mightysparks » May 24th, 2020, 12:39 am

Also re the above discussion..

I have 36 favourites and 5 dislikes on the AFI list. The only dislike I've removed so far was also the last film I saw on the list and I checked it in 2010. I've rewatched a couple of favourites and previous favourites on the list within the last few years, but it's really difficult to make decisions on films I saw ten or more years ago before I was even twenty. I feel like I'd probably dislike more films now, but it's also possible I'd like a few a bit more.


As for my next choice.. The Gold Rush. I think this was possibly the first Chaplin film I saw and has left me confused ever since as to what people find good about Chaplin (though Modern Times is ok and Monsieur Verdoux is brilliant). Slapstick is not funny and the film is just too silly, childish and not at all charming.
AFI listShow
1. Citizen Kane
2. The Godfather
3. Casablanca
4. Raging Bull
5. Singin' in the Rain
6. Gone with the Wind
7. Lawrence of Arabia
8. Schindler's List
9. Vertigo
10. The Wizard of Oz
11. City Lights
12. The Searchers
13. Star Wars
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
17. The Graduate
18. The General
19. On the Waterfront
20. It's a Wonderful Life
21. Chinatown
22. Some Like It Hot
23. The Grapes of Wrath
24. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
25. To Kill a Mockingbird
26. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
27. High Noon
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
31. The Maltese Falcon
32. The Godfather: Part II
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
34. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
35. Annie Hall
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
40. The Sound of Music
41. King Kong
42. Bonnie and Clyde
43. Midnight Cowboy
44. The Philadelphia Story
45. Shane
46. It Happened One Night
47. A Streetcar Named Desire
48. Rear Window
49. Intolerance: Love's Struggle throughout the Ages
50. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
51. West Side Story
52. Taxi Driver
53. The Deer Hunter
54. MASH
55. North by Northwest
56. Jaws
57. Rocky
58. The Gold Rush
59. Nashville
60. Duck Soup
61. Sullivan's Travels
62. American Graffiti
63. Cabaret
64. Network
65. The African Queen
66. Raiders of the Lost Ark
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
68. Unforgiven
69. Tootsie
70. A Clockwork Orange
71. Saving Private Ryan
72. The Shawshank Redemption
73. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
74. The Silence of the Lambs
75. In the Heat of the Night
76. Forrest Gump
77. All the President's Men
78. Modern Times
79. The Wild Bunch
80. The Apartment
81. Spartacus
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
83. Titanic
84. Easy Rider
85. A Night at the Opera
86. Platoon
87. 12 Angry Men
88. Bringing up Baby
89. The Sixth Sense
90. Swing Time
91. Sophie's Choice
92. Goodfellas
93. The French Connection
94. Pulp Fiction
95. The Last Picture Show
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
98. Yankee Doodle Dandy
99. Toy Story
100. Ben-Hur

Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash
2. sol
3. Onderhond
4. jeff_v
5. jeroeno
6. jvv
7. brokenface
8. beasterne
9. blocho
10. mightysparks
11. mathiasa
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#306

Post by cinewest » May 24th, 2020, 12:59 am

I saw The Graduate again a couple of years ago, and thought it was pretty good, certainly better than quite a few of the films still in play.

Though I am from a later time, I think it caught my mom's / uncle's generation, especially that of their East Coast cousins. Movies come out of a certain context, or time period, and that often limits their appeal to subsequent generations who can't really relate to them except as cultural relics that appeal or don't appeal as such.

Voters will probably become most feisty with their vetos when someone attacks favorites that they have grown up with.

Surprisingly, nobody here is turned off by the schmaltz of Swing Time or Shane, or the rank attitudes promoted by The Searchers and Raiders of the Lost Ark, which basically recycled bad B-level adventure movies from previous generations, inclusive of their American imperialist propaganda.

As for my assessment of this list, several others have pretty much said it. It is a representation of what the AFI is proud of, historically. I wouldn't say any of these movies are bad, particularly not for their time, but there is a fair amount of mediocrity (at least 15), or stuff I wouldn't see if I hadn't already seen it, and the vast majority are decent to good, with about 15-20 major standouts on the other end, some of which have already been eliminated.
Last edited by cinewest on May 24th, 2020, 1:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

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#307

Post by AB537 » May 24th, 2020, 1:06 am

I have a similar number of favourites on the list - 37 or so - and reserve the "dislike" feature for extreme cases. So while there are a few on this list I don't particularly enjoy, none of them come anywhere near that level.

I also just refreshed my memory on the BBC Top 100 American Films list, which is a more recent (and I think better) list. At least one jarring omission that's on the AFI list (Rear Window!), but also some great films that don't appear on AFI: Barry Lyndon (this is American?), Rio Bravo, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, His Girl Friday, Touch of Evil, Back to the Future, Eyes Wide Shut, The Shining, The Night of the Hunter.

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#308

Post by Onderhond » May 24th, 2020, 8:15 am

cinewest wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 12:59 am
Surprisingly, nobody here is turned off by the schmaltz of Swing Time or Shane, or the rank attitudes promoted by The Searchers and Raiders of the Lost Ark, which basically recycled bad B-level adventure movies from previous generations, inclusive of their American imperialist propaganda.
It's pretty funny how you've evolved from "don't want to play this game on this board" to becoming your own little lobbying group in such a short amount of time :D

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#309

Post by cinewest » May 24th, 2020, 8:21 am

Onderhond wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 8:15 am
cinewest wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 12:59 am
Surprisingly, nobody here is turned off by the schmaltz of Swing Time or Shane, or the rank attitudes promoted by The Searchers and Raiders of the Lost Ark, which basically recycled bad B-level adventure movies from previous generations, inclusive of their American imperialist propaganda.
It's pretty funny how you've evolved from "don't want to play this game on this board" to becoming your own little lobbying group in such a short amount of time :D
Trying to have fun with it, pretty much the way I did when I watched a couple of seasons of Survivor. Any good game needs some fans to liven it up, wouldn't you say?
Some of the reasoning is as astounding as some of the choices, especially in light of what's still on the board.
Last edited by cinewest on May 24th, 2020, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#310

Post by Onderhond » May 24th, 2020, 9:05 am

cinewest wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 8:21 am
Any good game needs some fans to liven it up, wouldn't you say?
Oh definitely, didn't mean it in a bad way :)

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#311

Post by cinewest » May 24th, 2020, 9:27 am

Onderhond wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 9:05 am
cinewest wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 8:21 am
Any good game needs some fans to liven it up, wouldn't you say?
Oh definitely, didn't mean it in a bad way :)
I realize that. We have built a rapport in spite of our disagreements, and even often find ourselves on the same side of an argument, none of which is a life or death matter.

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#312

Post by cinewest » May 24th, 2020, 9:42 am

Retracted post
Last edited by cinewest on May 25th, 2020, 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#313

Post by mathiasa » May 24th, 2020, 5:21 pm

First, I use my veto on The Gold Rush. It's not something I wanna do. It's something I have to do. The achievements of Western civilization have to be defended. Sorry, it's my moral duty to act in this way even though I now have no more vetoes left.

My cut is Shane. It bothers me a bit that this movie is still available to cut. Well, it's my own fault as well. I will never forget the ending of this movie, where the
SpoilerShow
little boy cringe-worthily cries after the hero, even offering him his mom. Shane, Shaaane, Shaaaaaaaaaaane. Common on. You can't be serious.
Very peculiar, considering that Stevens has made very good movies as well.

By the way, I have 7 dislikes on this list. But more likes.
AFI listShow
1. Citizen Kane
2. The Godfather
3. Casablanca
4. Raging Bull
5. Singin' in the Rain
6. Gone with the Wind
7. Lawrence of Arabia
8. Schindler's List
9. Vertigo
10. The Wizard of Oz
11. City Lights
12. The Searchers
13. Star Wars
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
17. The Graduate
18. The General
19. On the Waterfront
20. It's a Wonderful Life
21. Chinatown
22. Some Like It Hot
23. The Grapes of Wrath
24. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
25. To Kill a Mockingbird
26. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
27. High Noon
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
31. The Maltese Falcon
32. The Godfather: Part II
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
34. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
35. Annie Hall
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
40. The Sound of Music
41. King Kong
42. Bonnie and Clyde
43. Midnight Cowboy
44. The Philadelphia Story
45. Shane
46. It Happened One Night
47. A Streetcar Named Desire
48. Rear Window
49. Intolerance: Love's Struggle throughout the Ages
50. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
51. West Side Story
52. Taxi Driver
53. The Deer Hunter
54. MASH
55. North by Northwest
56. Jaws
57. Rocky
58. The Gold Rush
59. Nashville
60. Duck Soup
61. Sullivan's Travels
62. American Graffiti
63. Cabaret
64. Network
65. The African Queen
66. Raiders of the Lost Ark
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
68. Unforgiven
69. Tootsie
70. A Clockwork Orange
71. Saving Private Ryan
72. The Shawshank Redemption
73. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
74. The Silence of the Lambs
75. In the Heat of the Night
76. Forrest Gump
77. All the President's Men
78. Modern Times
79. The Wild Bunch
80. The Apartment
81. Spartacus
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
83. Titanic
84. Easy Rider
85. A Night at the Opera
86. Platoon
87. 12 Angry Men
88. Bringing up Baby
89. The Sixth Sense
90. Swing Time
91. Sophie's Choice
92. Goodfellas
93. The French Connection
94. Pulp Fiction
95. The Last Picture Show
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
98. Yankee Doodle Dandy
99. Toy Story
100. Ben-Hur

Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash
2. sol
3. Onderhond
4. jeff_v
5. jeroeno
6. jvv
7. brokenface
8. beasterne
9. blocho
10. mightysparks
11. mathiasa

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#314

Post by OldAle1 » May 24th, 2020, 5:51 pm

Stevens, like David Lean, has a neatly bisected career - the first half is pretty much all light comedy, the second half more serious, sometimes epic. Not sure why Lean's career had a similar divide, but Stevens was profoundly affected by the war and it made him want to focus on more dramatic "meaningful" work. IMO he should have stuck with what he was good at, as his pre-war stuff is vastly better than his post-war efforts, with maybe an exception for 1948's I Remember Mama - though that film feels like it almost could belong to the earlier films even if it is more dramatic than most of them.

At least Shane is better than Giant or the unbelievably dull Greatest Story Ever Slept To.

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#315

Post by beasterne » May 24th, 2020, 6:02 pm

That’s a wrap on Round 5! Round 6 will start at 5:00 pm GMT on 5/25.

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#316

Post by mathiasa » May 24th, 2020, 7:08 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
May 24th, 2020, 5:51 pm
Stevens, like David Lean, has a neatly bisected career - the first half is pretty much all light comedy, the second half more serious, sometimes epic. Not sure why Lean's career had a similar divide, but Stevens was profoundly affected by the war and it made him want to focus on more dramatic "meaningful" work. IMO he should have stuck with what he was good at, as his pre-war stuff is vastly better than his post-war efforts, with maybe an exception for 1948's I Remember Mama - though that film feels like it almost could belong to the earlier films even if it is more dramatic than most of them.

At least Shane is better than Giant or the unbelievably dull Greatest Story Ever Slept To.
He made one dramatic meaningful work that is a masterpiece - Penny Serenade. Of his pre-war movies I've only seen Swing Time and Alice Adams. Both are indeed very good. Can't agree about Giant. It's a slow start but it becomes quite good with time. Not a masterpiece, and not as good as the two pre-wars I've seen. But waaaaaaaaay (I'm crying like the Shane boy) better than Shane.


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#318

Post by toromash » May 25th, 2020, 11:39 pm

Well, Raiders of the Lost Ark is still here. I think that would be a nice one to cut. I'm surprised there are so many of these genre blockbusters on the list. This must be the last one alive (if we assume that blade runner is not a blockbuster). The film itself is very entertaining, i like Indiana Jones as a character. He has that perfect balance between serious and witty, so it gets an approval from me. The problem with these blockbusters films is that they never rise beyond great. Raiders of the Lost Ark isn't much of a difference between the better Marvels films of today. Perhaps only marginal better. Then there is the second movie, which i actually prefer, but that one is not on the list at all.

I should probably have cut this one before LoA, but well. If no one else will cut it, i will act as the executioner.

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#319

Post by blocho » May 25th, 2020, 11:55 pm

Updated list below.
AFI listShow
1. Citizen Kane
2. The Godfather
3. Casablanca
4. Raging Bull
5. Singin' in the Rain
6. Gone with the Wind
7. Lawrence of Arabia
8. Schindler's List
9. Vertigo
10. The Wizard of Oz
11. City Lights
12. The Searchers
13. Star Wars
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
17. The Graduate
18. The General
19. On the Waterfront
20. It's a Wonderful Life
21. Chinatown
22. Some Like It Hot
23. The Grapes of Wrath
24. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
25. To Kill a Mockingbird
26. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
27. High Noon
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
31. The Maltese Falcon
32. The Godfather: Part II
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
34. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
35. Annie Hall
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
40. The Sound of Music
41. King Kong
42. Bonnie and Clyde
43. Midnight Cowboy
44. The Philadelphia Story
45. Shane
46. It Happened One Night
47. A Streetcar Named Desire
48. Rear Window
49. Intolerance: Love's Struggle throughout the Ages
50. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
51. West Side Story
52. Taxi Driver
53. The Deer Hunter
54. MASH
55. North by Northwest
56. Jaws
57. Rocky
58. The Gold Rush
59. Nashville
60. Duck Soup
61. Sullivan's Travels
62. American Graffiti
63. Cabaret
64. Network
65. The African Queen
66. Raiders of the Lost Ark
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
68. Unforgiven
69. Tootsie
70. A Clockwork Orange
71. Saving Private Ryan
72. The Shawshank Redemption
73. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
74. The Silence of the Lambs
75. In the Heat of the Night
76. Forrest Gump
77. All the President's Men
78. Modern Times
79. The Wild Bunch
80. The Apartment
81. Spartacus
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
83. Titanic
84. Easy Rider
85. A Night at the Opera
86. Platoon
87. 12 Angry Men
88. Bringing up Baby
89. The Sixth Sense
90. Swing Time
91. Sophie's Choice
92. Goodfellas
93. The French Connection
94. Pulp Fiction
95. The Last Picture Show
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
98. Yankee Doodle Dandy
99. Toy Story
100. Ben-Hur

Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash (1 veto left)
2. sol (2 vetoes left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (1 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (2 vetoes left)
7. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (2 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (1 veto left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

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#320

Post by sol » May 26th, 2020, 9:23 am

Very pleased to Raiders of the Lost Ark cut. :poshclap: It is an enjoyable film for sure, but its placement in the IMDb Top 50 has always mystified me; Spielberg has made at least ten superior films for my money. Anyway...

Sorry guys - get your vetoes ready because I am going for axing The Godfather Part II next. It's a good film for sure, but with no more mediocre films left in the list, it is now time for me to separate the films I like from the films that I consider to be all-time favourites. Obviously, there is a lot that it is great in the second Godfather film: John Cazale and Talia Shire's performances in particular.

The first Godfather film though is one of few movies out there that I regard as perfect - and the closing doors at the end, what a great way to conclude the film and complete the character arc. It is such a perfect film that I have actually always wondered whether the second film was ever necessary, and my conclusion upon rewatching both films 10+ years ago was that it was not. With that in mind, it really tears me up to see the first Godfather film eliminated so early on while this follow-up that I liked a lot less remains in our list.

Is this a totally valid reason for removing the film? Possibly not, and maybe I should go with something that I have seen more recently and for which I am more confident of its shortcomings. Is this any less valid a reason than complaining about the length of Lawrence of Arabia? No, it is no less valid a reason than that, but feel free to use your vetoes as you see fit.

AFI listShow
1. Citizen Kane
2. The Godfather
3. Casablanca
4. Raging Bull
5. Singin' in the Rain
6. Gone with the Wind
7. Lawrence of Arabia
8. Schindler's List
9. Vertigo
10. The Wizard of Oz
11. City Lights
12. The Searchers
13. Star Wars
14. Psycho
15. 2001: A Space Odyssey
16. Sunset Blvd.
17. The Graduate
18. The General
19. On the Waterfront
20. It's a Wonderful Life
21. Chinatown
22. Some Like It Hot
23. The Grapes of Wrath
24. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial
25. To Kill a Mockingbird
26. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
27. High Noon
28. All About Eve
29. Double Indemnity
30. Apocalypse Now
31. The Maltese Falcon
32. The Godfather: Part II
33. One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest
34. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs
35. Annie Hall
36. The Bridge on the River Kwai
37. The Best Years of Our Lives
38. The Treasure of the Sierra Madre
39. Dr. Strangelove: or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb
40. The Sound of Music
41. King Kong
42. Bonnie and Clyde
43. Midnight Cowboy
44. The Philadelphia Story
45. Shane
46. It Happened One Night
47. A Streetcar Named Desire
48. Rear Window
49. Intolerance: Love's Struggle throughout the Ages
50. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring
51. West Side Story
52. Taxi Driver
53. The Deer Hunter
54. MASH
55. North by Northwest
56. Jaws
57. Rocky
58. The Gold Rush
59. Nashville
60. Duck Soup
61. Sullivan's Travels
62. American Graffiti
63. Cabaret
64. Network
65. The African Queen
66. Raiders of the Lost Ark
67. Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?
68. Unforgiven
69. Tootsie
70. A Clockwork Orange
71. Saving Private Ryan
72. The Shawshank Redemption
73. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
74. The Silence of the Lambs
75. In the Heat of the Night
76. Forrest Gump
77. All the President's Men
78. Modern Times
79. The Wild Bunch
80. The Apartment
81. Spartacus
82. Sunrise: A Song of Two Human
83. Titanic
84. Easy Rider
85. A Night at the Opera
86. Platoon
87. 12 Angry Men
88. Bringing up Baby
89. The Sixth Sense
90. Swing Time
91. Sophie's Choice
92. Goodfellas
93. The French Connection
94. Pulp Fiction
95. The Last Picture Show
96. Do the Right Thing
97. Blade Runner
98. Yankee Doodle Dandy
99. Toy Story
100. Ben-Hur

Whose turn is it?Show
1. toromash (1 veto left)
2. sol (2 vetoes left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (1 veto left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (2 vetoes left)
7. brokenface (2 vetoes left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (2 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (1 veto left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)
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