AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies Rankdown (Round 7, #46-#36)

[beasterne]

Hey there ICM Forum!

I'm proposing a forum game to breathe some new life into some of the most popular lists on ICM. The idea is that we run a rankdown of every film in a given list, to see if we can find the most universally beloved films.

What is a rankdown? A rankdown is a game where participants start with a given list, and then take turns knocking a film out of the running. They can base their decision to cut a film on whatever criteria they choose. The only rule is that when they knock a movie off the list, they have to explain their decision. The game proceeds in order, with each participant choosing a new film to cut, until we reach the final round. In the last round participants will submit a ranked ballot to determine the ultimate champion. That way the champion isn't decided purely by one participant.

In addition, each participant will have vetoes they can use along the way. If one of their favorites is knocked out, they can veto that choice and it goes back in the pool. The film will also be protected from being cut by the player who made the cut in the subsequent round. However, any other player can still cut a vetoed film at any time! To start, everyone will have two vetoes that can each be used once per game. Use them wisely!

What list should we start with? The list should be one that doesn't change often and that has lots of platinums so many different people can participate. I think either Best Picture Winners or the 100 Years...100 Movies would be good places to start, but we could also expand this to unofficial lists or anything else really.

How many people can participate? Somewhere between 5-15 usually works best. It's definitely subjective and arbitrary, but that's part of the quirkiness of a rankdown. If there are too many participants, it winds up becoming just another popularity contest. By keeping the pool of participants small, it allows for some truly surprising results.

So what's next? I'm posting this thread to start the discussion and to gauge interest. If there are enough interested players, we can decide on our first list and start the rankdown. Anyone who can't participate the first time around can go on the waitlist for round two!

Anything else? I think that's it! Who's interested in participating?

Edit3:

waitlist for Rankdown #2Show

1. OldAle1
2. PGonzalez
3. AB537
4. jeroeno
5.

Presenting...
ICM Forum's Rankdown of the AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies official list!

The ParticipantsShow

1. toromash (1 veto left)
2. sol (1 veto left)
3. Onderhond (2 vetoes left)
4. jeff_v (0 vetoes left)
5. jeroeno (1 veto left)
6. jvv (2 vetoes left)
7. brokenface (1 veto left)
8. beasterne (0 vetoes left)
9. blocho (2 vetoes left)
10. mightysparks (1 veto left)
11. mathiasa (0 vetoes left)

the ranks so farShow

100. The Sound of Music (1965), cut by toromash
99. The French Connection (1971), cut by sol
98. North by Northwest (1959), cut by Onderhond
97. The Apartment (1960), cut by jeff_v
96. American Graffiti (1973), cut by jeroeno
95. Duck Soup (1933), cut by jvv
94. Forrest Gump (1994), cut by brokenface
The Wild Bunch (1969), cut by beasterne Vetoed by jeff_v!
93. Schindler's List (1993), cut by blocho
92. Nashville (1976), cut by mightysparks
91. Goodfellas (1990), cut by mathiasa
The Wizard of Oz (1939), cut by toromash Vetoed by beasterne!
90. King Kong (1933), cut by sol
2001: A Space Odyssey (1968), cut by Onderhond Vetoed by toromash!
89. The African Queen (1951), cut by jeff_v
88. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937), cut by jeroeno
87. Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942), cut by jvv
86. Tootsie (1982), cut by brokenface
85. High Noon (1952), cut by beasterne
84. Gone With the Wind (1939), cut by blocho
Sullivan's Travels (1941), cut by mightysparks Vetoed by mathiasa!
83. The Godfather (1972), cut by mathiasa
82. Unforgiven (1992), cut by toromash
81. The Sixth Sense (1999), cut by sol
12 Angry Men (1957), cut by Onderhond Vetoed by jeroeno!
80. Ben-Hur (1959), cut by jeff_v
79. Sophie's Choice (1982), cut by joroeno
78. Bringing Up Baby (1938), cut by jvv
77. Titanic (1997), cut by brokenface
76. Saving Private Ryan (1998), cut by beasterne
75. It’s a Wonderful Life (1946), cut by blocho
74. Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (1939), cut by mightysparks
73. The Wild Bunch (1969), cut by mathiasa
72. E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial (1982), cut by toromash
71. The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001), cut by sol
70. Toy Story (1995), cut by Onderhond
69. Easy Rider (1969), cut by jeff_v
68. Cabaret (1972), cut by joroeno
67. Intolerance: Love's Struggle throughout the Ages (1916), cut by jvv
66. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969), cut by brokenface
65. Annie Hall (1977), cut by beasterne
Star Wars (1977), cut by blocho Vetoed by beasterne!
64. MASH (1970), cut by mightysparks
63. A Streetcar Named Desire (1951), cut by mathiasa
62. Lawrence of Arabia (1962), cut by toromash
61. The Philadelphia Story (1940), cut by sol
60. Modern Times (1936), cut by Onderhond
59. The Shawshank Redemption (1994), cut by jeff_v
58. West Side Story (1961), cut by jeroeno
57. Bonnie and Clyde (1967), cut by jvv
56. Rocky (1976), cut by brokenface
55. The Graduate (1967), cut by beasterne
One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest (1975), cut by blocho vetoed by mightysparks!
The Gold Rush (1925), cut by mightysparks vetoed by mathiasa!
54. Shane (1953), cut by mathiasa
53. Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981), cut by toromash
The Godfather Part II (1974), cut by sol vetoed by jeff_v!
Casablanca (1942), cut by Onderhond vetoed by brokenface!
52. In the Heat of the Night (1967), cut by jeff_v
51. Swing Time (1936), cut by jeroeno
50. The Searchers (1956), cut by jvv
49. Spartacus (1960), cut by brokenface
48. Raging Bull (1980), cut by beasterne
48. Star Wars (1977), cut by blocho
47. Citizen Kane (1941), cut by mightysparks
The Last Picture Show (1971), cut by mathiasa vetoed by sol!
46. It Happened One Night (1934), cut by toromash
45. The Deer Hunter (1978), cut by sol
44. Jaws (1975), cut by Onderhond
43. Midnight Cowboy (1969), cut by jeff_v
42. Taxi Driver (1976), cut by jeroeno
41. On the Waterfront (1954), cut by jvv
40. To Kill a Mockingbird (1962), cut by brokenface
39. The Godfather Part II (1974), cut by beasterne
38. One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest (1975), cut by blocho
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[Onderhond]

Sound like fun

[blocho]

Definitely in

[jeff_v]

Yep, sounds good.

[toromash]

Alright

[mathiasa]

Love it!

[brokenface]

Sure, I'll play

[mightysparks]

I'll be in too

[jvv]

I'm in as well.

[sol]

I could play... but I see a whole lot of cyclic voting possible: expel/veto/expel again/veto again, etc.

[AdamH]

Great idea!

[brokenface]

I could play... but I see a whole lot of cyclic voting possible: expel/veto/expel again/veto again, etc.

there must be a limit to vetos?

[beasterne]

Thank you to everyone who signed up! I have added everyone who's said they're interested as participants for the first rankdown. Anyone else who is interested will go on the waitlist for Round 2.

Now we need to decide on the first list. For the participants, please vote on whether you would like to rank best picture winners, the AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies, or another list!

I'm voting for the 100 years list. That was the list I had in mind when I first posted.

Which list should we start with?

1. Oscar Best Picture Winners
2. AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies (1)
3. Something else?

I could play... but I see a whole lot of cyclic voting possible: expel/veto/expel again/veto again, etc.

there must be a limit to vetos?

Correct. Each participant will have two vetoes that they can use once throughout the entire game. It will only veto one cut, so if a movie is cut and you use your veto to save it, it could be cut the very next turn and would require your second veto to save it again. Use your vetoes wisely!

[brokenface]

AFI sounds a good starter, I'm happy with that.

[Onderhond]

Number of favorites: 1/93 (1%)
Number of dislikes: 53/93 (57%)

Gonna be easy cutting things/figuring out what veto votes to use

[jvv]

I've seen 99/100 from the AFI 100 list, so it's a good list for me for this game.

[beasterne]

Number of favorites: 1/93 (1%)
Number of dislikes: 53/93 (57%)

Gonna be easy cutting things/figuring out what veto votes to use

This is what I love about rankdowns. No film is safe I'm interpreting this as a vote for Best Picture Winners...if it's not, let me know.

List votes through post #16:

1. Oscar Best Picture Winners (1)
2. AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies (3)
3. Something else?

[Onderhond]

This is what I love about rankdowns. No film is safe I'm interpreting this as a vote for Best Picture Winners...if it's not, let me know.

No, AFI is fine with me. The Oscar list isn't that much better for me, stat-wise, and I've seen more from the AFI list.

[jeff_v]

I'm good with AFI.

[toromash]

AFI

[blocho]

AFI

[beasterne]

List votes through post #20:

1. Oscar Best Picture Winners
2. AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies (7)
3. Something else?

That's a majority! Our first rankdown will be of the AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies list (just for clarity, the 2007 version that's official on ICM: link).

With that being the case, we'll need to decide the order for our game. I'm using trusty random.org to put the participants in a random order. That will be the order of cuts until we get to the final round. And without further ado, the order for this rankdown is:

1. toromash
2. sol
3. Onderhond
4. jeff_v
5. AdamH replaced by jeroeno
6. jvv
7. brokenface
8. beasterne
9. blocho
10. mightysparks
11. mathiasa

random.org screenshotShow

So that means first up is toromash! Which film will be the first one cut from the list, and why? And will anyone choose to use their veto? We're about to find out!

[toromash]

I will go with The sound of music (placement 40). Perhaps the only film on the list that i don't like at all. This film has the disadvantage that musical is my least preferred genre, and being so long doesn't help it at all. The story is the famous WW2, but compared to other films in that period, this seems like it was a wonderful time with joy and music. Some would probably appreciate this, but as im concerned with realism (when dealing with history), then this is not my type of film.

5/10

[brokenface]

Okay question about the game: if you want to veto do you do that on your turn instead of cutting, or can you just jump in at any time? (Hypothetical, i definitely do not want to veto the Sound of Music!)

[jeroeno]

I'll play too, this sounds like fun. Can I play with this list or have to wait until you guys finish this one?

[AdamH]

I'll play too, this sounds like fun. Can I play with this list or have to wait until you guys finish this one?

Feel free to take my spot in the list of people taking part. I was really just praising the idea.

[sol]

Sol's turn, quoting myself from the Favourite Movies result thread and this exchange with OldAle, let's ditch The French Connection.

Look at that long slide for The French Connection - is that indicative of a trend anywhere but on this forum I wonder? I don't feel like I see it mentioned as much as I used to, but it is on 20 lists and certainly remains very well known. Not really a favorite of mine but I really would have thought it would rank higher here.

I don't know. I think it's only logical. I know the film was very big in its day due to its chase scenes and that whole getting on/off the train sequence, but most of it is pretty routine by standards today and the film doesn't exactly have tons to offer beyond the chase/action sequences. I mean, I wasn't very impressed when I first watched the film nearly 20 years ago, and I was even less impressed when I gave the film another spin 2 or 3 years ago.

[Onderhond]

Okay, I'll go with North by Northwest then.

Not a big Hitchcock fan to begin with, but this seemed to be a bit lighter compared to his other work. It's still incredibly stiff and awkward though. Terrible use of projections, Grant feels completely lost and has troubles making even the most simple actions convincing. And there's one shot near the end, where he's eavesdropping a conversation and he's in plain sight for all to see, but that's the power of a script I guess, you can just write down whatever. The add insult to injury, this contraption is more than two hours long. One of the worst films I've ever seen.

[beasterne]

Okay question about the game: if you want to veto do you do that on your turn instead of cutting, or can you just jump in at any time? (Hypothetical, i definitely do not want to veto the Sound of Music!)

For vetoes you can jump in at any time, you don't have to wait until your turn. The deadline to use a veto is the end of the round. If you don't veto a cut by the end of the round, then you can't go back later on to veto something from multiple rounds ago.

I'll play too, this sounds like fun. Can I play with this list or have to wait until you guys finish this one?

Feel free to take my spot in the list of people taking part. I was really just praising the idea.

Hey jeroeno, good to have your aboard! And AdamH, thank you for graciously giving up your spot I'll update the first post, and then jeroeno you will take AdamH's position in the participant list.

The Sound of Music, The French Connection, and North by Northwest are the first three gone. Not sure I ever would have predicted that! I'm tempted to use one of my vetoes on The Sound of Music because I really respond to the joy and warmth that movie puts out. But I'm going to be patient and save my vetoes...

So the next to make a cut is jeff_v!

[Onderhond]

For vetoes you can jump in at any time, you don't have to wait until your turn. The deadline to use a veto is the end of the round. If you don't veto a cut by the end of the round, then you can't go back later on to veto something from multiple rounds ago.

Not to be too serious about all of this, but will there be time between rounds to make sure people can veto the choice of the last player? Otherwise he has a major advantage

[beasterne]

We'll take a break of 24 hours between each round. That should give everyone a chance to check the thread and veto any choices, but it won't slow things down too much.

Hey, at least someone is taking this seriously

[jeff_v]

My choice to cut is Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. Like any Stanley Kramer film, it's heavy-handed moralizing and visually affectless. I'm sure I would have found it insultingly patronizing even back in 1967. Now it's just laughably bad, despite decent performances.

[jeff_v]

How many rounds will there be? How many films do we expect to be on the final ranked list? That will influence what my cut-off rating is for using the veto.

[OldAle1]

My choice to cut is Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. Like any Stanley Kramer film, it's heavy-handed moralizing and visually affectless. I'm sure I would have found it insultingly patronizing even back in 1967. Now it's just laughably bad, despite decent performances.

If I had participated, this probably would have been one of my first 2-3 choices. It astonishes me that this film still has a pretty high rating on IMDb and favorite-to-dislike ratio on icm, and mostly positive comments. Really? I'm not sure there's an outright brilliant American film dealing with racism from the 60s but without trying I can come up with 10 that are miles better than this piece of lead. Poitier is the only thing this film has going for it.

Kramer made my likely least-favorite film ever, but most of what I've seen from him is just as you say heavy-handed and moralistic, and dull rather than outright terrible. I mean, I guess he was a well-meaning liberal, but he suffers from trying so hard not to offend anybody, which you just can't do if you want to really hit your message home. I do think The Defiant Ones succeeded to some extent but maybe that's because it has an action/thriller plot going for it and a bit less time for the simplistic speechifying.

[jeroeno]

My choice will be American Graffiti.

I feel this movie, more than any other on the list, will probably only be great for Americans. It's extremely nostalgic to American society in the 50's and does next to nothing for me because I can't relate to any of it. It's not a bad movie but the best 100 movies ever? Not even close.

[jvv]

My choice to cut is Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. Like any Stanley Kramer film, it's heavy-handed moralizing and visually affectless. I'm sure I would have found it insultingly patronizing even back in 1967. Now it's just laughably bad, despite decent performances.

Erm.... Guess Who's Coming to Dinner is not on the AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies list. Or am I looking at the wrong AFI list for this game?

[jeroeno]

My choice to cut is Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. Like any Stanley Kramer film, it's heavy-handed moralizing and visually affectless. I'm sure I would have found it insultingly patronizing even back in 1967. Now it's just laughably bad, despite decent performances.

Erm.... Guess Who's Coming to Dinner is not on the AFI's 100 Years...100 Movies list. Or am I looking at the wrong AFI list for this game?

LOL you're right

[beasterne]

Looks like others caught it already--we're ranking the updated AFI list (link: https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/afis ... 00+movies/) Lucky for you, the American voting public has already cut Guess Who's Coming to Dinner from the updated list! Please make another choice

How many rounds will there be? How many films do we expect to be on the final ranked list? That will influence what my cut-off rating is for using the veto.

The final ballot phase will start in the round where there aren't enough films left for everyone to make a cut. So if no films are vetoed then the ballot phase would start in Round 9, when there are four films left. However, what makes it tricky is when a veto is used the rounds will all "shift". My guess is that if we see a fair number of vetoes then Round 8 will actually be the final round, and there will probably be somewhere between 5-11 films to rank. It's a bit of a moving target.

[jeff_v]

Oh, I didn't realize there was an updated list.

Then I will go with a more controversial choice. I vote to remove The Apartment. I've long agreed with Andrew Sarris' original assessment of Wilder's toxic combination of cynicism and sentimentality. There are a few Wilder films I like, but his string of 1960s comedies are not among them.

[jvv]

This is the only dislike I have on the list, so it has to go: Duck Soup.

I absolutely hate the stupid antics of Harpo.