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World Cup, Season 4, Match 1G: Germany vs Pakistan vs Ukraine vs USA (Apr 22nd)

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Re: World Cup, Season 4, Match 1G: Germany vs Pakistan vs Ukraine vs USA (Apr 22nd)

#41

Post by sacmersault » April 14th, 2020, 8:06 pm

Don't get me wrong. The movie is good enough and if it was accepted as Pakistani it's too late to change that, but I'm speaking for future’s sake.

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#42

Post by Mario Gaborović » April 15th, 2020, 3:21 pm

sacmersault wrote:
April 14th, 2020, 8:06 pm
Don't get me wrong. The movie is good enough and if it was accepted as Pakistani it's too late to change that, but I'm speaking for future’s sake.
I still think it's more Paki than Bangla, though.

As for USSR/YU/CZ, co-productions with other countries (or even with other republics within the state) were pretty rare thing until the fall of communism; also, film production was centralized so there were usually not more than 3 production companies within most states during that period, which makes it even easier to find out to which country a specific film belong. However those countries of the third world were much murkier, as (mostly) France was involved in majority of their cinematic output.

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#43

Post by joachimt » April 15th, 2020, 5:11 pm

It was submitted to the Academy Awards for Pakistan.
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#44

Post by Mario Gaborović » April 15th, 2020, 5:27 pm

joachimt wrote:
April 15th, 2020, 5:11 pm
It was submitted to the Academy Awards for Pakistan.
That's not argumental however, coz Bangladesh gained independence only in 1971. It couldn't have been submitted for BD in any case.

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#45

Post by joachimt » April 15th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Mario Gaborović wrote:
April 15th, 2020, 5:27 pm
joachimt wrote:
April 15th, 2020, 5:11 pm
It was submitted to the Academy Awards for Pakistan.
That's not argumental however, coz Bangladesh gained independence only in 1971. It couldn't have been submitted for BD in any case.
Ah, alright. I should have checked history before posting.
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#46

Post by Fergenaprido » April 16th, 2020, 5:47 am

sacmersault wrote:
April 14th, 2020, 8:04 pm
I know the director is from Lahore, but it was filmed in Bangladesh with locals and the whole theme of the movie is about Bangladeshi society. I, also, thought that we take the first country posted under IMDb as the country of origin.

I think just for future sake we should specify how countries can be assigned to a country. Otherwise you could choose an Indian film filmed while they were part of Britain, with a company from the UK and consider that a UK film. Same from Algerian films counting as French for a while. Or even the former Soviet, Czechoslovak and Yugoslav countries become muddy and can be used for any of the countries.
There's no strict rule, no; it's very easy to change the order of the countries on imdb. This is not the first film we've had that's been a co-production, or that some people have questioned the choice of it representing that particular country.

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#47

Post by clemmetarey » April 16th, 2020, 9:58 am

1. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern (1969) 6/10
2. Cockfighter (1974) 6/10
3. Nezabyvayemoye (1967) 5/10
4. Jago hua savera (1959) 5/10

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#48

Post by sacmersault » April 16th, 2020, 5:36 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 5:47 am
sacmersault wrote:
April 14th, 2020, 8:04 pm
I know the director is from Lahore, but it was filmed in Bangladesh with locals and the whole theme of the movie is about Bangladeshi society. I, also, thought that we take the first country posted under IMDb as the country of origin.

I think just for future sake we should specify how countries can be assigned to a country. Otherwise you could choose an Indian film filmed while they were part of Britain, with a company from the UK and consider that a UK film. Same from Algerian films counting as French for a while. Or even the former Soviet, Czechoslovak and Yugoslav countries become muddy and can be used for any of the countries.
There's no strict rule, no; it's very easy to change the order of the countries on imdb. This is not the first film we've had that's been a co-production, or that some people have questioned the choice of it representing that particular country.
Ok

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#49

Post by hurluberlu » April 16th, 2020, 6:19 pm

1. Jago hua savera (1959) 6
2. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern (1969) 6-
3. Nezabyvayemoye (1967) 5-
4. Cockfighter (1974) 4+
#JeSuisCharlie Liberté, Liberté chérie !

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#50

Post by Armoreska » April 16th, 2020, 8:16 pm

hurluberlu wrote:
April 16th, 2020, 6:19 pm
1. Jago hua savera (1959) 6
2. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern (1969) 6-
3. Nezabyvayemoye (1967) 5-
4. Cockfighter (1974) 4+
:wub: (l)
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#51

Post by Nathan Treadway » April 18th, 2020, 2:21 am

1 Nezabyvayemoye
2 Jago hua savera
3 Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern
4 Cockfighter

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#52

Post by joachimt » April 18th, 2020, 7:32 am

Battle for second place!

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#53

Post by cayado-coro » April 18th, 2020, 12:08 pm

1. Ukraine - The Unforgettable
2. USA - Cockfighter
3. Germany - Hunting Scenes from Bavaria
4. Pakistan - The Day Shall Dawn

I had not seen and really liked THE DAY SHALL DAWN (reminiscent of LA TERRA TREMA), but the other three are very good films.

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#54

Post by Mario Gaborović » April 18th, 2020, 12:23 pm

cayado-coro wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:08 pm
I had not seen and really liked THE DAY SHALL DAWN (reminiscent of LA TERRA TREMA), but the other three are very good films.
HAD seen or HAD NOT seen?? :unsure:

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#55

Post by Armoreska » April 18th, 2020, 3:34 pm

Mario Gaborović wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:23 pm
cayado-coro wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:08 pm
I had not seen and really liked THE DAY SHALL DAWN (reminiscent of LA TERRA TREMA), but the other three are very good films.
HAD seen or HAD NOT seen?? :unsure:
Had not seen before the tournament I think, and now he has
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#56

Post by cayado-coro » April 18th, 2020, 4:21 pm

Armoreska wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 3:34 pm
Mario Gaborović wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:23 pm
cayado-coro wrote:
April 18th, 2020, 12:08 pm
I had not seen and really liked THE DAY SHALL DAWN (reminiscent of LA TERRA TREMA), but the other three are very good films.
HAD seen or HAD NOT seen?? :unsure:
Had not seen before the tournament I think, and now he has
This. Groups of 4 movies are usually problematic for me, but one -just one- pending movie encourages to be watched.

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#57

Post by Mario Gaborović » April 19th, 2020, 8:15 pm

Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern 46-20
Image Cockfighter 30-36
Image Jago Hua Savera 28-38
Image Nezabyvaemoe 28-38

3.5 days left.

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#58

Post by kongs_speech » April 21st, 2020, 12:59 am

How long is the Ukrainian film supposed to be? Every source I can find online says 118 mins, but the copy I have is 87.
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#59

Post by Armoreska » April 21st, 2020, 1:38 am

That's it. Unlikely that that runtime is correct even if everyones posting it.
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
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#60

Post by edward5 » April 21st, 2020, 5:29 am

1. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern 8/10
2. Cockfighter 7/10
3. Jago Hua Savera 4/10
4. Nezabyvaemoe 3/10

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#61

Post by burneyfan » April 21st, 2020, 8:01 pm

1. Cockfighter (USA)
2. Jago hua savera (Pakistan)
3. Nezabyvayemoye (Ukraine)
4. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern (Germany)

Tough round, all good films. Thank you, klaus, zhangalan, Angel, and monty!

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#62

Post by sacmersault » April 22nd, 2020, 6:53 am

1.- Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern (I could not believe the level of misogyny, racism and/or worst of all homophobia, yet it was the best constructed and best film of all 4) I still can't get over the fact of the homophobia. This forum has been a haven of acceptance and diversity since I found it yet this film is beyond crazy homophobic. I do however believe in separating artist from art and the artistic merits grant it 1st place.

2.- Nezabyvayemoye (This is pure propaganda, however very well made and artistic propaganda. Another case of separating artist from art)

3. Jago hua savera (Good movie. However average film from the period around the world. It reminded me a lot of Mexican films from the Golden Age. Very melodramatic but very well made)

4. Cockfighter (Only film not up to the level of the others. Not only badly made, but also the subject matter was offensive)

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#63

Post by Fergenaprido » April 22nd, 2020, 11:31 am

Oof. Tough round to watch for me, but potentially also the shortest (excluding those with short films in them)? All films around 80-90 minutes long.

1. Pakistangladesh - 7.6
2. rUsskraine - 6.6
3. Germany - 6.0
4. United States - 5.6

Jago Hua Savera/Day Shall Dawn - I liked the style of the film, the way it was shot, and the way the story unfolded. Could definitely have benefitted from better production, but I think it pulled off something wonderful. Too bad there are so few quality films from this part of the world (India excluded) from this era.

Nezabyvayemoye/The Unforgettable - Blatantly propagandistic, which dragged the film down at times and ruined the flow of the film, but it had some genuinely good moments. It tried to cram so much into less than 90 minutes, though, and I felt some storylines got lost. I also lost track of which young man was which, so I was genuinely not sure if Ivan had survived or not. The constant switching between color and b&w was... a choice. Slightly better than her other film that I've seen (Enchanted Desna), but at least this one had more highs and lows to it.

Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern/Hunting Scenes from Bavaria - I'm most polarized about this film. I loathed the main plot about the hatred for the gay man. The constant teasing and innuendos brought back a lot of memories from my high school years. I did find some of the scenes fascinating in the depiction of village life, and I think that is where the film stood out (the pig slaughter scene was interesting for the process, but I hated the way the characters behaved). I hated everyone, actually. Except maybe the intellectually disabled boy.
major spoilers as I rant about each unlikeable characterShow
The gay man had to be turned into a predator preying on the boy, and then I have no idea why he pulled out a knife and stabbed the pregnant girl. The pregnant girl wasn't mentally retarded like the boy, but she was portrayed as dumb and unsympathetic; I didn't understand the motivation for her character being portrayed that way, and didn't care when she died (and it was so nonchalant they way they announced it, simply by stating that Abram may "kill again", as if even the film didn't care about her). Abram's mother was wicked, the main village lady who kept hitting her child and called the police on Abram for no apparent reason (because of what she thought she saw but didn't on the bridge? Because he was gay but they already knew that?), and her son was a brat who stupidly cried like a baby every time his mother hit him. The old man with the limp was pathetic, and Georg was an asshole in the first degree. I honestly feel like the writer/director depicted country folks as stereotypes instead of as actual people, especially since their behaviour wasn't because they were backwards rural folk; that kind of intolerance can be found everywhere. I also found it peculiar that they spoke about high morals and the old days, when WWII was a mere 25 years earlier and most of the adult characters would have lived through the thick of it and also remembered Nazism and the unjust persecutions that took place under that regime.It's almost like this was a fantasy film. At least the gay witch hunt didn't end in death for Abram; that was one small beacon of light, considering most films from that era fated their gays and lesbians to die horrendous deaths.
I also was surprised to see Turkish laborers in the film, including those that seemed to be staying year-round in the village and spoke German, as opposed to the migrant workers. I know Germany has a large Turkish population, but for some reason thought it didn't start until the 70s or 80s. And they weren't terribly mistreated (by comparison to Abram), and seemed to be reasonably accepted by the community, even if they were teased for their religion.

Cockfighter - Some well-known actors in this, but I just didn't care about the characters. I didn't care for cockfighting beforehand, and watching this movie still doesn't make me like it anymore. I was bored, and especially annoyed when they decided to show some of the fight scenes in slowmotion for no good reason. What a waste of life.
Last edited by Fergenaprido on April 22nd, 2020, 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#64

Post by Armoreska » April 22nd, 2020, 12:26 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 11:31 am
Cockfighter - Some well-known actors in this, but I just didn't care about the characters. I didn't care for cockfighting beforehand, and watching this move still doesn't make me like it anymore. I was bored, and especially annoyed when they decided to show some of the fight scenes in slowmotion for no good reason. What a waste of life.
Amen
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#65

Post by joachimt » April 22nd, 2020, 12:47 pm

Less than a day left. Germany is sure of the victory, but no idea which country will be 2nd.

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Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern: 1.962 (53-25)
Image Cockfighter: 2.654 (35-43)
Image Jago hua savera: 2.654 (35-43)
Image Nezabyvayemoye: 2.731 (33-45)

Image Jago hua savera - Image Cockfighter: 11 - 15
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#66

Post by Armoreska » April 22nd, 2020, 1:19 pm

I say let's watch another Pakistani movie
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#67

Post by Gorro » April 22nd, 2020, 9:35 pm

1. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern (1969)
2. Nezabyvayemoye (1967)
3. Jago hua savera (1959)
4. Cockfighter (1974)

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#68

Post by kongs_speech » April 23rd, 2020, 4:42 am

01. United States - 8/10
02. Germany - 7/10
03. Ukraine - 6/10
04. Pakistan - 5/10

This round definitely wasn't as strong as the last one for me, with the exception of Monte Hellman's film.
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#69

Post by zzzorf » April 23rd, 2020, 6:17 am

1. Nezabyvayemoye (1967) - 7/10 This movie started off really strong for me but was not able to keep the pace going all the way through. I loved the novelty of the movie jumping from Black and White to colour and in some places that jump worked really well to add impact to the scene. Some of the story arcs were a little confusing but in the end I did enjoy this one over all.
2. Cockfighter (1974) - 7/10 First thing I have to address is the actual Rooster fighting. This would turn a lot of people off this movie due to animal cruelty as the fights were actual staged fights. I am able to look past that so I was able to take the movie on its merits. For some reason I enjoyed this movie more than I thought while watching it. Warren Oates did a great job playing the silent Frank, even to the point where he wouldn't even make a sound laughing. Having the good lead meant the rest was able to fall in place. To be honest though there could have been a bit more padding of extra story content to make the movie better.
3. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern (1969) - 6/10 At the start of this movie I really didn't think it would really work for me but after letting it continue a bit it started to come around for me. This was a good look at the stereotypes of a small village where everyone knows everyone but are set in their traditional ways. Not the greatest of its kind but it had its charm.
4. Jago hua savera (1959) - 5/10 I was split on this movie. I enjoyed the story but at times had to go back just to make sure I didn't miss something. The in between shots of the fishermen boating up the river were beautifully shot but there seemed to be a bit much which would have allowed for more story development. In the end I think a further rewatch down the track will see this rise in my enjoyment.

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#70

Post by filmbantha » April 23rd, 2020, 6:49 am

I'm a bit behind on writing reviews of the most recent films I have watched, hence the late comment on this round and shorter feedback on films 2 and 3. This was incredibly close for me, in fact I rated each film with a 6/10, - I enjoyed them all to a degree but they were not without flaws:

1. Jago hua savera - Focusing on the lives of poverty-stricken fisherman along the banks of the Meghna river in East Pakistan, The Day Shall Dawn is a sombre drama about the tenacity of the human spirit in the face of abject hardship. Its storyline bathes in the neo-realism of auteurs such as Satyajit Ray and Vittorio De Sica to provide an authentic depiction of the cruel hold that loan sharks used to have over the less fortunate villagers in this region.

A tragic undercurrent makes this a bleak yet rewarding cinematic experience as we witness the tribulations of a young fisherman saving up for his own boat whilst also trying to provide for a growing family. The harsh reality of such an existence is a tough notion to digest as we wade through this subtle and compelling melodrama, which offers an undeniably fascinating glimpse into a unique way of life rarely portrayed on screen.

2. Nezabyvayemoye - For the first 15 minutes I thought I was in store for something similar to Ballad of a Soldier but the stirring opening sequences gave way to a fragmented story that had glimpses of brilliance but is inconsistent in its delivery.

3. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern - As many others have mentioned there are so many unlikeable characters in this film yet the depiction of rural life is still oddly fascinating.

4. Cockfighter - If you can look past the barbaric clips of chickens ripping shreds out of each other there is a half decent film here. Warren Oates is convincing as a self-imposed mute who makes a pact not to speak until he wins the coveted Cockfighter of the year award and there are a handful of comic moments that really connect.

It is enlightening to learn more about this bloodthirsty sport (that is thankfully now illegal in the USA) but the scenes of animal cruelty make it hard to digest and leave a foul taste. This detracts from what could have otherwise been an eye-opening insight into the life of an unusual drifter who doesn't know when to quit.

Thanks to all of the managers for their picks!

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#71

Post by joachimt » April 23rd, 2020, 7:14 am

joachimt wrote:
April 22nd, 2020, 12:47 pm
Less than a day left. Germany is sure of the victory, but no idea which country will be 2nd.

Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern: 1.962 (53-25)
Image Cockfighter: 2.654 (35-43)
Image Jago hua savera: 2.654 (35-43)
Image Nezabyvayemoye: 2.731 (33-45)

Image Jago hua savera - Image Cockfighter: 11 - 15
Four votes later:

Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern: 2 (60-30)
Image Nezabyvayemoye: 2.633 (41-49)
Image Cockfighter: 2.667 (40-50)
Image Jago hua savera: 2.7 (39-51)

Mario, doublecheck, please?
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#72

Post by joachimt » April 23rd, 2020, 7:15 am

2 hours 45 min left
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#73

Post by joachimt » April 23rd, 2020, 10:00 am

Deadline is over. Because the difference is so close, I'm waiting for the doublecheck by Mario.
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#74

Post by Armoreska » April 23rd, 2020, 10:11 am

Thanks to all Ukraine voters for saving us from at least cockfighters. Too bad Pakistan was so close.
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo


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#76

Post by joachimt » April 23rd, 2020, 10:41 am

Thanks, Mario.

Germany and Ukraine proceed to the next round. Congratulations to klaus78 and Angel Glez. Also thanks to zhangalan and monty for their picks and to the 30 participants who voted in the match.

Final graph:

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#77

Post by joachimt » April 23rd, 2020, 10:48 am

Some more stats:

Most popular votes:
Germany-USA-Pakistan-Ukraine (5x)
Germany-Ukraine-Pakistan-USA (3x)
Germany-USA-Ukraine-Pakistan (3x)

Head-to-head counts:
Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern - Image Jago hua savera: 19 - 11
Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern - Image Nezabyvayemoye: 20 - 10
Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern - Image Cockfighter: 21 - 9
Image Jago hua savera - Image Nezabyvayemoye: 15 - 15
Image Jago hua savera - Image Cockfighter: 13 - 17
Image Nezabyvayemoye - Image Cockfighter: 16 - 14

Number of #1-votes
Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern: 14
Image Jago hua savera: 5
Image Nezabyvayemoye: 6
Image Cockfighter: 5

Number of #4-votes
Image Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern: 4
Image Jago hua savera: 8
Image Nezabyvayemoye: 8
Image Cockfighter: 10
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Fergenaprido
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#78

Post by Fergenaprido » April 23rd, 2020, 10:51 am

Is this the first time in a 3-way or 4-way match that a film started out in first place and never fell below that?

Also seems like the tightest cluster of 3 films in any match.

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#79

Post by joachimt » April 23rd, 2020, 10:53 am

Interesting to see in the graph that Ukraine has only been on 2nd place twice: at the first and at the last vote!
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#80

Post by joachimt » April 23rd, 2020, 10:55 am

Fergenaprido wrote:
April 23rd, 2020, 10:51 am
Is this the first time in a 3-way or 4-way match that a film started out in first place and never fell below that?
I never kept those stats in earlier seasons, but it happened this season in 1F as well with Poland.
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