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World Cup, Season 4, Match 1F: Brazil vs Greece vs Japan vs Poland (Apr 5th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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World Cup, Season 4, Match 1F: Brazil vs Greece vs Japan vs Poland (Apr 5th)

#1

Post by joachimt »

This is match 1F of the fourth season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
BrazilA Alma do OssoThe Soul of the Bone2004beavislinklink
GreeceI fotografiaThe Photograph1986burneyfanlinklink
JapanTsigoineruwaizenZigeunerweisen1980Gordon_Gekkolinklink
PolandKorczak1990sebbylinklink

Screenshots
A Alma do Osso
Image

I fotografia
Image

Tsigoineruwaizen
Image

Korczak
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 4 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 4 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Apr 5th
Countdown till deadline

The countries that end at 1st and 2nd place proceed to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Ranked by highest average ranking (= lowest number).
- In case of a tie between two movies, head-to-head determines the winner (how many people thought A>B and how many thought B>A).
- In case there's still a tie after the previous rule or there is a tie between three or four movies, most #1-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? Fewest #4-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? The match will have a 3 day extension (except when the tie is only between #3 and #4).
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament works
We start with 32 films from 32 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 8 groups of 4. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 16 remaining countries will be divided into 8 matches of 2. The managers pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.
iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons
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#2

Post by 72aicm »

1. Korczak
2. I fotografia
3. A Alma do Osso
4. Tsigoineruwaizen
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#3

Post by Mario Gaborović »

1. Korczak
2. A Alma do Osso
3. I fotografia
4. Tsigoineruwaizen
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#4

Post by Armoreska »

What an OP group. Two previous winners, top of the ranks in all time success, #11 Greece and #19 Brazil.
Japan off into a hole from the start (again actually).
he or A. or Armo or any

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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#5

Post by Cocoa »

1. Tsigoineruwaizen 7/10
2. Korczak 6/10
3. I fotografia 4/10
4. A Alma do Osso 3/10

THE BOREDOM I felt watching most of these films (plus annoyance in the case of I fotografia). A Alma do Osso would have been ranked third or second if it was just scenery shots and no man. The film gave me no reason to care about the guy and I would have liked some narration at the beginning to give me a reason to care but then the man ends up rambling near the end and I end up disliking the film even more so maybe no sound at all would have been better. Tsigoineruwaizen was the only film I watched years ago out of this group and I remember the colors fondly. Korczak was decent but made me yawn frequently. I watched Korczak immediately after A Alma do Osso, so perhaps the first film made me sleepy from boredom while the second just had a bunch of slow moments that could have been cut without harming the film overall.
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#6

Post by pitchorneirda »

1. I Fotografia
2. Korczak
3. A Alma do Osso
4. Tsigoineruwaizen
"Art is like a fire, it is born from the very thing it burns" - Jean-Luc Godard
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#7

Post by jvv »

1. Korczak
2. Tsigoineruwaizen
3. I Fotografia
4. A Alma do Osso
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#8

Post by klaus78 »

1. A Alma do Osso (Brazil) 8/10
2. Korczak (Poland) 7/10
3. Tsigoineruwaizen (Japan) 7/10
4. I fotografia (Greece) 7/10
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#9

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Image Korczak 15-3
Image I fotografia 8-10
Image A Alma do Osso 7-11
Image Tsigoineruwaizen 6-12
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#10

Post by joachimt »

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#11

Post by Armoreska »

If Japan loses, Poland may become the #1 all time WC country
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#12

Post by sebby »

Armoreska wrote: March 16th, 2020, 9:20 am If Japan loses, Poland may become the #1 all time WC country
Finally, #1 in something other than vodka-fueled wedding outbursts.
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#13

Post by zhangalan »

1. I Fotografia
2. Tsigoineruwaizen
3. Korczak
4. A Alma do Osso
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#14

Post by joachimt »

Image

Image

Image

Image

Is he talking about the Covid-19 crisis?
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#15

Post by mjf314 »

I haven't seen the others, but I'm surprised that Tsigoineruwaizen is doing poorly. I thought it was very good.
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#16

Post by Smoover »

1. Korczak 8.0/10
2. A Alma do Osso 6.0/10
3. Tsigoineruwaizen 5.0/10
4. I Fotografia 5.0/10
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#17

Post by joachimt »

1. Korczak 8-
2. I Fotografia 7+
3. Tsigoineruwaizen 7-
4. A Alma do Osso 6
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#18

Post by Armoreska »

Korczak 7-
Zigeunerweisen 5-
I fotografia 4
A Alma do Osso 3+
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#19

Post by clemmetarey »

1. Tsigoineruwaizen (1980) 6/10
2. I fotografia (1986) 6/10
3. Korczak (1990) 5/10
4. A Alma do Osso (2004) 5/10
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#20

Post by beavis »

A Alma do Osso - 8.5
Zigeunerweisen - 8.5
Korczak - 8
I fotografia - 7

damn, pool of death for me here... :)
best round of the cup!!
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#21

Post by kingink »

1. I Fotografia
2. Korczak
3. Tsigoineruwaizen
4. A Alma do Osso
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#22

Post by joachimt »

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#23

Post by Mario Gaborović »

Image Korczak 29-10
Image I fotografia 19-20
Image Tsigoineruwaizen 17-22
Image A Alma do Osso 13-26

9.5 days left.
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#24

Post by joachimt »

Mario Gaborović wrote: March 27th, 2020, 8:08 pm Image Korczak 29-10
Image I fotografia 19-20
Image Tsigoineruwaizen 17-22
Image A Alma do Osso 13-26

9.5 days left.
Double check:

Image Korczak: 1.769 (29-10)
Image I fotografia: 2.538 (19-20)
Image Tsigoineruwaizen: 2.615 (18-21)
Image A Alma do Osso: 3.077 (12-27)

Let's both recount...
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#25

Post by joachimt »

I can't find mistakes in my count.
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#26

Post by Mario Gaborović »

joachimt wrote: March 28th, 2020, 6:51 am I can't find mistakes in my count.
That's possible, I often go wrong with these numbers. So we'll take your count.
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#27

Post by weirdboy »

1. Tsigoineruwaizen ツウィゴイネルワイゼン AKA Zigeunerweisen (1980) - Seijun Suzuki
2. Korczak (1990) - Andrzej Wajda
3. I fotografia (1986) - Nikos Papatakis
4. A Alma do Osso AKA The Soul of the Bone (2004) - Cao Guimarães
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#28

Post by filmbantha »

This was a mixed bag for me, quite a range of scores:

1. I Fotografia - 7/10
Spoiler
The Photograph is a gripping Greek tale of obsession and betrayal set during a time of political turmoil for the nation. It follows the exploits of Ilias, a young soldier who is forced to leave Greece due to his father's ties with communism, as he seeks refuge in France with a distant relative.

This is a simple yet fascinating story involving a lie that spirals rapidly out of control, which is handled incredibly well as the narrative tangles with comedy and tragedy in equal measure. The way in which Director Nikos Papatakis weaves these two aspects together creates an uncomfortable experience - but one that we cannot look away from - as Ilias finds himself in a predicament of his own making that there seems to be no escape from. Both a sombre meditation on the military dictatorship in 1970s Greece and a riveting exploration of human morality, The Photograph is a minor classic of Greek cinema that is deserving of far more exposure.
2. Korczak - 6/10
Spoiler
Based upon the moving account of a Jewish intellect who devoted his time to the children he cared for in his orphanage, Korczak is a troubling account of the atrocities that became commonplace during World War Two in Poland. This bleak film from Andrzej Wajda is shot in black and white and paints a poignant picture of a selfless and dedicated man as Korczak consistently puts his needs second to those of his children, providing the ultimate sacrifice during a time of great turmoil.

Life for these orphans proves extremely gruelling due to the onset of war and this despair takes its toll on Korczak as he does all that he can to protect them. The harrowing subject matter is alleviated somewhat by the inspirational actions of Korczak but this is at times a difficult picture to endure. The film delivers an important message of hope yet it feels like a minor work in comparison to some of Wajda's other outings, as it lacks the emotional impact you would come to expect from a talented filmmaker adapting a story of this magnitude
3. Tsigoineruwaizen - 4/10
Spoiler
My first encounter with the eccentric work of Director Seijun Suzuki was not a great experience. Zigeunerweisen overreaches with its surreal psychological melodrama that encapsulates geishas, ghosts and German records, in a meandering storyline that appears to ignore the conventions of logic and reason. Somehow this film was nominated for nine Japanese Academy awards and won a total of four; perhaps much of this film's supposed brilliance is lost in translation but this was, at times, a real struggle to persevere with.

I would never completely disregard the oeuvre of a film-maker based upon a single film but it may be a while before I muster up the energy to tackle another of Suzuki's films. If anyone can recommend a film of his that is likely to change my perception on the Director then please point me in its direction. He appears to be highly regarded in his native country but this largely incoherent mess does little to confirm such a status.
4. A Alma do Osso - 3/10 - Not to my taste sadly.

Thanks to the managers for their picks! Fingers crossed we get to see more from Greece.
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#29

Post by zuma »

01 - Tsigoineruwaizen

02 - A Alma do Osso

03 - Korczak

04 - I Fotografia
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#30

Post by Armoreska »

pitchorneirda and zuma have flipped rankings, either order is curious

13/24 possible combinations, 5 repeat combinations
all 6/6 combinations with Alma placing last taken
0/6 with Korczak placing last
Spoiler
Kor-Foto-Alma-Zig 2
Kor-Foto-Zig-Alma 2 (JT,Sac)
Kor-Alma-Foto-Zig 2
Kor-Alma-Zig-Foto 1
Kor-Zig-Foto-Alma 5 (JVV,me,zzz)
Foto-Kor-Alma-Zig 3 (Pit,Bur,Mue)
Foto-Kor-Zig-Alma 2 (Ink,FBa)
Foto-Zig-Kor-Alma 2
Zig-Kor-Foto-Alma 2 (Coc,Wei)
Zig-Foto-Kor-Alma 1
Zig-Alma-Kor-Foto 1
Alma-Kor-Zig-Foto 3
Alma-Zig-Kor-Foto 1
Last edited by Armoreska on April 6th, 2020, 9:01 am, edited 7 times in total.
he or A. or Armo or any

Image
currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#31

Post by joachimt »

Armoreska wrote: April 1st, 2020, 3:14 pm pitchorneirda and zuma have flipped rankings, either order is curious

Still waiting for someone to agree with the official situation as last posted.

13/24 possible combinations, only 3 repeat combinations
all 6/6 combinations with Alma placing last taken
0/6 with Korczak placing last
Spoiler
Kor-Foto-Alma-Zig 1
Kor-Foto-Zig-Alma 1
Kor-Alma-Foto-Zig 1
Kor-Alma-Zig-Foto 1
Kor-Zig-Foto-Alma 2 (JVV,me)
Foto-Kor-Alma-Zig 1
Foto-Kor-Zig-Alma 2 (Ink,FBa)
Foto-Zig-Kor-Alma 1
Zig-Kor-Foto-Alma 2 (Coc,Wei)
Zig-Foto-Kor-Alma 1
Zig-Alma-Kor-Foto 1
Alma-Kor-Zig-Foto 1
Alma-Zig-Kor-Foto 1
Do you keep track of this every match? Manually or automated? My spreadsheet calculates this as well.

It has become a nice battle between Greece and Japan!

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#32

Post by kingink »

Aaaaaa can I revote? Pleaseeeee.... :circle: :D
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#33

Post by pitchorneirda »

kingink wrote: April 1st, 2020, 7:48 pm Aaaaaa can I revote? Pleaseeeee.... :circle: :D
If you want to put Tsigoineruwaizen in 4th position, yes please let him revote ^^'
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#34

Post by PGonzalez »

kingink wrote: April 1st, 2020, 7:48 pm Aaaaaa can I revote? Pleaseeeee.... :circle: :D
Honest question, is this still allowed? I remember this happened in the first season, but I'm not sure if there's anything against it now.
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#35

Post by kingink »

pitchorneirda wrote: April 1st, 2020, 8:35 pm
kingink wrote: April 1st, 2020, 7:48 pm Aaaaaa can I revote? Pleaseeeee.... :circle: :D
If you want to put Tsigoineruwaizen in 4th position, yes please let him revote ^^'
I would still save that position for A Alma do Osso I'm afraid. B) It didn't work for me.
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#36

Post by kingink »

PGonzalez wrote: April 1st, 2020, 9:25 pm
kingink wrote: April 1st, 2020, 7:48 pm Aaaaaa can I revote? Pleaseeeee.... :circle: :D
Honest question, is this still allowed? I remember this happened in the first season, but I'm not sure if there's anything against it now.
Was it really allowed? :blink:
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#37

Post by Armoreska »

My understanding is you can still revote at any time until deadline, why not? :blink:
As long as you don't do this repeatedly, ofc.

@ JT
No, I noticed how all over the place the rankings were and looked into it. You've got the data - you should tweet about it.

Now the situation is as me & JVV predicted. We're so mainstream <_<
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currently working towards a vegan/free world + thru such film lists: GODARD, r/antinatalism recommends,..
the rest
ANARCHISTS, ANIMAL RIGHTS, Assisted suicide, Existential films, SOCIALIST CINEMA (an amalgamation of lists), Feminist lists, various GSSRM lists (aka LGBTQ+), 2010s bests, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, mah huge sci-fi list, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
/forum.icmforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo
imaginary awards | youtube channels | complaint lounge | explain how big a fan of slavery you are here, ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1535 and here: ..viewtopic.php?f=12&t=4484
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#38

Post by jvv »

I didn't predict anything, I just gave my preferences.

And yes, I am rather mainstream. :P
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#39

Post by sacmersault »

The Top 3 were very good. Each had it's own thing. Korczak resonated more with me though. Tsigoineruwaizen in my opinion was the best made, but it's not my style of movie at all. And A Alma do Osso, I have no idea what others are seeing. It was torture watching it; I know there are people who like experimental films, but I truly didn't get it. Maybe someone can share with me their thoughts on why they thought it was so positive. On the other hand, WTF! He kept pouring water from one can to another for no reason!

1.- Korczak
2. - I Fotografia
3.- Tsigoineruwaizen
4.- A Alma do Osso
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#40

Post by joachimt »

I don't want to make a set rule about not changing your vote, but I just want to trust people to be honest. I mean, if we want to disallow changing votes, we should also disallow opening the thread before making your vote. Late voters can do strategic votes without changing their vote. I just hope they don't.

The only way to avoid strategic votes is to have silent votes: everyone submits their vote to me and the result will be posted at once after the deadline. But where's the fun in that?
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