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Doubling the Canon 2020 Update - Results

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Doubling the Canon 2020 Update - Results

#1

Post by Angel Glez »

Welcome to our annual update. :cheers:

What is this?
Begun in 2007, Doubling the Canon is a yearly project which aims to expand the Film Canon as crafted by the They Shoot Pictures, Don't They? website. Originally it was a selection of 1000 movies to complement the TSPDT Top 1000, now it is a list of 1000-1250 which complements both the all time Top 1000 and the companion TSPDT Top 1000 of the 21st century.

Who can participate?
Anyone can join. Requirement for newbies: Please note that you will be requested to identify yourself, just to make sure that the poll is answered (only once) by cinephiles of good will.

Where?
In this thread.
In the SCFZ thread: https://scfzforum.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=458
Via e-mail: doublingthecanon@hotmail.com

What is new in this update?
Any film that is newly admitted to the Doubled Canon must be subjected to a revote after 5 years, so we're going to revote the 2015 entries.

2019 update:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4206

Phase I: Nominations for titles not on either the TSPDT lists or the Doubling list.
Deadline: March 27
Each participant can nominate a maximum of 12 films. Shorts, TV-movies, and TV mini-series are eligible. Every nominated movie goes onto the roster as a nominee. Films released in 2019-20 aren't allowed this year for our exercise.

Along with a list of the titles, please include the corresponding list of bare IMDb urls for the same films.

Please, don't edit your post! To change your ballot (undesirable) or add new titles you have to write a new reply.

Phase II: Ratings.
You're invited to rate the films you have seen (whether you have participated in the phase I or not). The nominees with the highest ratings make it into our list.
You can cast your votes anytime between now and Thursday, April 30. Only 'write-in' updates will be accepted after the deadline.
Please, sign your ballot. Example: This is Angel Glez.

Rating system:
6=All time top 600
5=All time top 601-1,200
4=All time top 1,201-1,800
3=All time top 1,801-2,400
2=It's a good movie, but not special enough to deserve placement in a 2,400-movie canon
1=It's an average movie, far from good enough to deserve placement on this list
0=I dislike this movie
Note: The cutoff was 3.91 last year. That means a 3 does not really help a film make the list.

Procedure 1: Just download the ballot (if you prefer I can send you the file) and email it back to me (doublingthecanon@hotmail.com)
DDL: https://we.tl/t-qZwrEA2V0n
Procedure 2: Online (PM me for details)

Don't remove anything, don't reorder. Untouched ballot with ratings, please.

After submitting your ballot, post a reply here to make sure I received the file. You can also add comments or statistics if you wish.

Early ballots would be appreciated. Then, if you watch new films or forgot to rate some, send me a 'write-in' ballot.

Thank you in advance for joining us in this game.

P.S.: If you know anyone adventurous enough (on or off the forum) that you think would also enjoy participating, feel free to invite them as well.

****************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

RESULTS from this point forward.

Full 2020 Update Results

DtC 2020 IMDB List

DtC 2020 ICM List
Last edited by Angel Glez on May 13th, 2020, 8:04 pm, edited 14 times in total.
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#2

Post by Angel Glez »

Last edited by Angel Glez on February 26th, 2020, 9:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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#3

Post by Angel Glez »

Last edited by Angel Glez on April 26th, 2020, 11:22 am, edited 7 times in total.
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#4

Post by rnilsson19 »

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#5

Post by Carmel1379 »

:imdb: Brouillard: Passage #14 (2014, Alexandre Larose)
:imdb: 2012 (2013, Takashi Makino)
:imdb: Still in Cosmos (2009, Takashi Makino)
:imdb: Ya Private Sky (2001, Stom Sogo)
:imdb: Deanimated: The Invisible Ghost (2002, Martin Arnold)
:imdb: Nirvana (1997, Gabriele Salvatores)
:imdb: This World, Then the Fireworks (1997, Michael Oblowitz)
:imdb: Finding Interest / Suicide Ride / Barney Barnaby (1994, Samer Daboul & Trevor Sands)
:imdb: Scissere (1982, Peter Mettler)
:imdb: Motion Painting No. 1 (1947, Oskar Fischinger)
:imdb: Hypnosis Display (2014, Paul Clipson)
:imdb: Ruke ljubicastih daljina / Hands of Purple Distances (1962, Sava Trifkovic)



backup:

:imdb: Light Work I (2007, Jennifer Todd Reeves)
:imdb: Ville Marie (2009, Alexandre Larose)
arittake no yume (nikki) o kaki atsume & I suppose I’ll have to add the force of gravity to my list of enemies

:imdb: IMDb Revolutions :letbxd: exwordpress blue :ICM:
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#6

Post by beavis »

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#7

Post by Ivan0716 »

1. Ai nu (Yuen Chor, 1972)
2. Beduino (Júlio Bressane, 2016)
3. Idö van (Péter Gothár, 1986)
4. Il demonio (Brunello Rondi, 1963)
5. La ragazza in vetrina (Luciano Emmer, 1961)
6. Napszállta (László Nemes, 2018)
7. Nastroyshchik (Kira Muratova, 2004)
8. Scacco alla regina (Pasquale Festa Campanile, 1969)
9. Todo modo (Elio Petri, 1976)
10. Vlyublyonnye (Elyer Ishmukhamedov, 1970)

Going with these 10 for now.

I have a question regarding Kôge/The Scent of Incense. It's listed as a single 203 minute film on letterboxd/TMDB, and I saw it as a single film. But on IMDb it's split into part 1 and part 2 (both have the same release date). So if I want to nominate it, can I just do the whole thing as one film, or do I have to put part 1 and 2 in two separate spots?
Last edited by Ivan0716 on February 23rd, 2020, 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#8

Post by Labraxas »

Posting the first half of my nominees here now, and will add the remaining six closer to the deadline.

Nuestro tiempo (Reygadas, 2018)
Vox Lux (Corbet, 2018)
La fille inconnue (J.P. & L. Dardenne, 2016)
Regi Andrej Tarkovskij (Leszczylowski, 1988)
I Call First (Scorsese, 1967)
Skepp till India land (Bergman, 1947)

EDIT: IMDb-links in one list, as per requested
Last edited by Labraxas on February 23rd, 2020, 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#9

Post by beavis »

Your number 6 is from 2019 Ivan...
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#10

Post by Ivan0716 »

beavis wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 12:24 pm Your number 6 is from 2019 Ivan...
Typo. It's 2018 on imdb and I saw it in 2018. :P
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#12

Post by joachimt »

Angel Glez wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 10:32 am Phase I: Nominations for titles not on either the TSPDT lists or the Doubling list.
Each year I'm asking the same questions to make things more clear:

Drop-offs from TSPDT and 21st are autonominated, right?

If yes, that means, you can nominate every movie that is:
...not on TSPDT.
...not on 21st.
...is a drop-off from TSPDT this year.
...is a drop-off from 21st this year.
...is a holdover from last year.
...is a revote from 2015.

Who's making an IMDb-list of all of these?
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#14

Post by Perception de Ambiguity »

:imdb: The Fall / 1969 / Peter Whitehead
:imdb: Sayonara CP (Goodbye CP) / 1972 / Kazuo Hara
:imdb: Die letzten Tage von Gomorrha (The Last Days of Gomorrah) / 1974 / Helma Sanders-Brahms
:imdb: Die linkshändige Frau (The Left-Handed Woman) / 1978 / Peter Handke
:imdb: Call It Sleep / 1982/ Giorgos Isaac Cronin, Tom Seltzer
:imdb: Mania / 1985 / Giorgos Panousopoulos
:imdb: Lord of the Dance/Destroyer of Illusion / 1985 / Richard Kohn
:imdb: L'autre rive / 1986 / Marc Hurtado
:imdb: Et Resurrectus Est / 1994 / R. Bruce Elder
:imdb: Safe Condition: Document in the Past Perfect / 1995 / Lars Mathisen
:imdb: Lucky People Center International / 1998 / Erik Pauser, Johan Söderberg
:imdb: Tableau noir / 2013 / Yves Yersin


Backups/Wishlist (steal freely)
:imdb: Holding / 1971 / Coni Beeson
:imdb: A Alma do Osso (The Soul of the Bone) / 2004 / Cao Guimarães
:imdb: The Soundrel / 1935 / Ben Hecht, Charles MacArthur
:imdb: Sanrizuka: Heta buraku (Narita: Heta Village) / 1973 / Shinsuke Ogawa
:imdb: Episode 3: Enjoy Poverty / 2009 / Renzo Martens
:imdb: Ra: Path of the Sun God / 1990 / Lesley Keen
:imdb: Naked Spaces: Living Is Round / 1985 / T. Minh-ha Trinh
:imdb: Invisible / 2005 / Konstantin Bojanov
:imdb: (and any Mohsen Makhmalbaf film)
Last edited by Perception de Ambiguity on March 28th, 2020, 11:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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#15

Post by beavis »

A Alma do Osso will be in the World Cup soon!!
Group F: 2020-3-8 till 2020-4-5
Hope that one picks up some traction then!
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#16

Post by Perception de Ambiguity »

beavis wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 3:30 pm A Alma do Osso will be in the World Cup soon!!
Group F: 2020-3-8 till 2020-4-5
Hope that one picks up some traction then!
Thanks for telling. This means a lot of people on the forum will watch it anyway and also that it has a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. I replaced it now.
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#17

Post by 72aicm »

Like last year there is an unofficial challenge:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4793
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#18

Post by Teproc »

I'm new to this, so sorry if I missed something and this isn't the right format or if some of these are ineligible for some reason.

Astérix et Obélix: Mission Cléopâtre (Alain Chabat, 2002)
Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead (Tom Stoppard, 1990)
Invasion of the Body Snatchers (Philip Kaufman, 1978)
Les ogres (Léa Fehner, 2015)
Delicatessen (Jean-Pierre Jeunet & Marc Caro, 1991)
Mon roi (Maïwenn, 2015)
Ahlat Agaci (Nuri Bilge Ceylan, 2018)
Cyrano de Bergerac (Jean-Paul Rappeneau, 1990)
Mirai no Mirai (Mamoru Hosoda, 2018)
Ni juge, ni soumise (Yves Hinant & Jean LIbon, 2017)
La glace et le ciel (Luc Jacquet 2015)
The "High Sign" (Edward F. Cline & Buster Keaton, 1921)

IMDB links
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#19

Post by Angel Glez »

joachimt wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 12:56 pm
Angel Glez wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 10:32 am Phase I: Nominations for titles not on either the TSPDT lists or the Doubling list.
Each year I'm asking the same questions to make things more clear:

Drop-offs from TSPDT and 21st are autonominated, right?

If yes, that means, you can nominate every movie that is:
...not on TSPDT.
...not on 21st.
...is a drop-off from TSPDT this year.
...is a drop-off from 21st this year.
...is a holdover from last year.
...is a revote from 2015.
Yes, drop-offs from TSPDT and holdovers from last year's Doubling are automatically nominated, so they don't need to be nominated again.
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#20

Post by joachimt »

Angel Glez wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 7:43 pm
joachimt wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 12:56 pm
Angel Glez wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 10:32 am Phase I: Nominations for titles not on either the TSPDT lists or the Doubling list.
Each year I'm asking the same questions to make things more clear:

Drop-offs from TSPDT and 21st are autonominated, right?

If yes, that means, you can nominate every movie that is:
...not on TSPDT.
...not on 21st.
...is a drop-off from TSPDT this year.
...is a drop-off from 21st this year.
...is a holdover from last year.
...is a revote from 2015.
Yes, drop-offs from TSPDT and holdovers from last year's Doubling are automatically nominated, so they don't need to be nominated again.
Okay, thanks.
And I forgot to mention DtC itself. Although it's allowed to nominate current movies for a revote, I don't think anyone really wants to do that.
So anyone willing to make an IMDb-list of all ineligible titles? Or at least a list of all autonominated movies (drop-offs, holdovers and revotes) and all nominated movies so far? Would be very helpful (again) to filter ratings/checks to find candidates for nomination. frbrown made it last year, right?
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#21

Post by 72aicm »

Apathy have created lists for holdovers and revotes:

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dtc+ ... thy420xxx/

https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dtc+ ... thy420xxx/ (The first entry are wrong though)
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#22

Post by Angel Glez »

72aicm wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 8:41 pm https://www.icheckmovies.com/lists/dtc+ ... thy420xxx/ (The first entry are wrong though)
That's because we agreed to link the 1979 version after the 2015 update and I posted the old list.
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#23

Post by sol »

Are films from TSP's 1001-2000 ineligible?

See: viewtopic.php?p=625711#p625711
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#24

Post by Dolwphin »

1. Rapsodia satanica - Oxilia, 1917
2. Old And New - Eisenstein, 1929
3. Anticipation of the Night - SB, 1958
4. The Flicker - Conrad, 1965
5. I, You, He, She - Akerman, 1974
6. First Name: Carmen - JLG, 1983
7. A Japanese Village - Ogawa, 1982
8. Magino Village: A Tale - Ogawa, 1987
9. The Dante Quartet - SB, 1987
10. Whispering Pages - Sokurov, 1994
11. Trees of Syntax, Leaves of Axis - Saito, 2009
12. Annabelle Serpentine Dance - Dickson, 1895
Top 100 | Top 250

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#25

Post by joachimt »

sol wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 10:42 pm Are films from TSP's 1001-2000 ineligible?

See: viewtopic.php?p=625711#p625711
We consulted Angel about this before posting the poll. He said they will be ineligible next year. So there might be some overlap this year once 1001-2000 has been adopted.
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#26

Post by joachimt »

joachimt wrote: February 24th, 2020, 7:37 am
sol wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 10:42 pm Are films from TSP's 1001-2000 ineligible?

See: viewtopic.php?p=625711#p625711
We consulted Angel about this before posting the poll. He said they will be ineligible next year. So there might be some overlap this year once 1001-2000 has been adopted.
Just did a comparison. Out of 1201 Dtc-titles 260 are also on TSPDT1001-2000.
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#27

Post by perceval »

I start with these,

Judaspengar (Victor Sjöström, 1915)
Angels Over Broadway (Lee Garmes & Ben Hecht, 1940)
Variations (Nathaniel Dorsky, 1998)
The Limey (Steven Soderbergh, 1999)
Oca (Vlado Skafar, 2010)
By the Time it Gets Dark (Anocha Suwichakornpong, 2016)

I have not made any research in regards to the DtC history of these films... hope it is not too bad.
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#28

Post by beavis »

Have you also seen Skafar's Mama? That is his real masterpiece so far to my mind, very interesting filmmaker that hasn't gotten any major critical attention yet!
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#29

Post by perceval »

beavis wrote: February 24th, 2020, 8:35 am Have you also seen Skafar's Mama? That is his real masterpiece so far to my mind, very interesting filmmaker that hasn't gotten any major critical attention yet!
No I haven't and didn't know about it. I will definitely watch it, thanks for the rec!
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#30

Post by rnilsson19 »

Dolwphin wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 11:28 pm 8. Magino Village: A Tale - Ogawa, 1987
That one's a holdover, I think.
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#31

Post by cinephage »

Last year, I managed to get 2 films adopted, and found 3 of my darlings to get terrible scores, so bad I won't try to defend them again , I don't see how their score could change much (Rozmarné léto had 28 votes for 3.15, Next of Kin 12 votes for 3 and I am a hero received 6 votes for a rating of 2.83).

So I'm keeping 7 of my previous titles, and adding 5 new suggestions.

1 - The Vikings (Richard Fleischer, 1958)
2 - The Blood on Satan's Claw (Piers Haggard, 1971)
3 - Merci la vie (Bertrand Blier, 1991)
4 - Liza, a rókatündér (Károly Ujj Mészáros, 2015) - I hope it gets a better exposition this year...
5 - Go do gaai bei (Ringo Lam, 1997) - For this one, I hope the new restauration will give a chance to more people to watch it in good conditions...
6 - Eldorado (Bouli Lanners, 2008)
7 - L'autre (Patrick-Mario Bernard & Pierre Trividic, 2008) - This could be the last time I defend this one, as I found out it's impossible to find it with english subtitles... So it's unlikely any one will like it, even though it has definitely a lynchian approach to the doppelganger theme.
8 - Omocha (Kinji Fukasaku, 1998) - My second darling with Liza the Fox Fairy... I hope more people get to watch it.
9 - Gunhamdo (Seung-wan Ryoo, 2017)
10 - Cowboy (Delmer Daves, 1958)
11 - Hanare goze Orin (Masahiro Shinoda, 1977)
12 - Five Star Final (Mervyn Meroy, 1931)
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#32

Post by matthewscott8 »

cinephage wrote: February 24th, 2020, 9:47 am 6 - Eldorado (Bouli Lanners, 2008)
7 - L'autre (Patrick-Mario Bernard & Pierre Trividic, 2008) - This could be the last time I defend this one, as I found out it's impossible to find it with english subtitles... So it's unlikely any one will like it, even though it has definitely a lynchian approach to the doppelganger theme.
On this point of whether anyone else will like it, I just looked into Eldorado and about half the reviews were from people saying they were disgusted by the animal cruelty in it, so seems like another non-starter. I am no expert though, I seem to get a maximum of 1 nomination through each year!!
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#33

Post by cinephage »

matthewscott8 wrote: February 24th, 2020, 11:41 am
cinephage wrote: February 24th, 2020, 9:47 am 6 - Eldorado (Bouli Lanners, 2008)
7 - L'autre (Patrick-Mario Bernard & Pierre Trividic, 2008) - This could be the last time I defend this one, as I found out it's impossible to find it with english subtitles... So it's unlikely any one will like it, even though it has definitely a lynchian approach to the doppelganger theme.
On this point of whether anyone else will like it, I just looked into Eldorado and about half the reviews were from people saying they were disgusted by the animal cruelty in it, so seems like another non-starter. I am no expert though, I seem to get a maximum of 1 nomination through each year!!
I don't expect stories and characters to go along with my worldview, I watch people getting abused, maimed of killed very often, and don't quite see how a scene depicting bad things happening to a dog, or any other pet, would be worse. For example, I certainly wouldn't hate Satantango for its cat scene, however painful to the viewer it can be. Bouli Lanners is a dog owner and lover, and his depiction of animal cruelty as a fact of life in certain social backgrounds looks rather realistic to me. I certainly don't feel the film advocates such violence, though...

But thanks for letting me know, I understand now why it doesn't work well in this game. I'll probably try another film next time, then...
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#34

Post by matthewscott8 »

cinephage wrote: February 24th, 2020, 12:40 pm
matthewscott8 wrote: February 24th, 2020, 11:41 am
cinephage wrote: February 24th, 2020, 9:47 am 6 - Eldorado (Bouli Lanners, 2008)
7 - L'autre (Patrick-Mario Bernard & Pierre Trividic, 2008) - This could be the last time I defend this one, as I found out it's impossible to find it with english subtitles... So it's unlikely any one will like it, even though it has definitely a lynchian approach to the doppelganger theme.
On this point of whether anyone else will like it, I just looked into Eldorado and about half the reviews were from people saying they were disgusted by the animal cruelty in it, so seems like another non-starter. I am no expert though, I seem to get a maximum of 1 nomination through each year!!
I don't expect stories and characters to go along with my worldview, I watch people getting abused, maimed of killed very often, and don't quite see how a scene depicting bad things happening to a dog, or any other pet, would be worse. For example, I certainly wouldn't hate Satantango for its cat scene, however painful to the viewer it can be. Bouli Lanners is a dog owner and lover, and his depiction of animal cruelty as a fact of life in certain social backgrounds looks rather realistic to me. I certainly don't feel the film advocates such violence, though...

But thanks for letting me know, I understand now why it doesn't work well in this game. I'll probably try another film next time, then...
I stopped watching Satantango when it got to the cat torture bit. A big waste of time given it's something like 2 and a half hours in!!! I can't comment on a film I haven't seen though, just thought I'd point out how many unhappy reviews there were.
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#35

Post by cinephage »

I can understand that to be a cause to stop watching a movie. An ex girlfriend couldn't stand a rape scene in a movie, and another hated violence altogether so I had to chose carefully the films we watched together...
I don't have issues with any such elements, provided they are fictional and make sense within the movie they are in. However, the intent behind the film will easily get to me (any pro-war propaganda, or similar contents...).
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#36

Post by sol »

joachimt wrote: February 24th, 2020, 7:44 am
joachimt wrote: February 24th, 2020, 7:37 am
sol wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 10:42 pm Are films from TSP's 1001-2000 ineligible?

See: viewtopic.php?p=625711#p625711
We consulted Angel about this before posting the poll. He said they will be ineligible next year. So there might be some overlap this year once 1001-2000 has been adopted.
Just did a comparison. Out of 1201 Dtc-titles 260 are also on TSPDT1001-2000.
260 out of 1201 is pretty massive; that is close to quarter of the DTC - 21.6% of films to be exact. I would much rather that the 1001-2000 titles be excluded this year too given the significant number of slots it would open up in the DTC as opposed to simply doubling up. :shrug:
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joachimt
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#37

Post by joachimt »

sol wrote: February 24th, 2020, 2:06 pm
joachimt wrote: February 24th, 2020, 7:44 am
joachimt wrote: February 24th, 2020, 7:37 am
We consulted Angel about this before posting the poll. He said they will be ineligible next year. So there might be some overlap this year once 1001-2000 has been adopted.
Just did a comparison. Out of 1201 Dtc-titles 260 are also on TSPDT1001-2000.
260 out of 1201 is pretty massive; that is close to quarter of the DTC - 21.6% of films to be exact. I would much rather that the 1001-2000 titles be excluded this year too given the significant number of slots it would open up in the DTC as opposed to simply doubling up. :shrug:
I'd prefer that as well, but that's up to Angel to decide.
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#38

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cinephage wrote: February 24th, 2020, 1:47 pm I can understand that to be a cause to stop watching a movie. An ex girlfriend couldn't stand a rape scene in a movie, and another hated violence altogether so I had to chose carefully the films we watched together...
I don't have issues with any such elements, provided they are fictional and make sense within the movie they are in. However, the intent behind the film will easily get to me (any pro-war propaganda, or similar contents...).
So it wasn't really any fictional context that got to me. It's that the cat actually looked like it was having a horrible time, and obviously couldn't consent. I've seen the scene, and I've read Tarr's response, and I'm not happy about it. I watched a movie last night (Harlequin - 1980) where 2 dogs were shot (you see the guns being fired and hear some foley work but the dogs are offscreen). It didn't really raise an eyebrow from me as no dogs were hurt or even seen to be hurt in a fictional context.

With rape, I think you have to use that as a fictional motif pretty sparingly. Enough people have PTSD from it that you're retraumatising some people in the cinema by having it in a movie. A frenemy of mine who doesn't like the fact that I watch a lot of movies, and particularly "foreign" and arthouse movies frequently stabs at me by pointing out how often rape is used as a motif in those movies. It's kind of become a go to pick for filmmakers looking to create drama the lazy way. The other easy target is that the movie industry in general does a massive halo effect thing, intelligent characters are by and large pretty and thin, and then fatness and ugliness associated with stupidity.
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Angel Glez
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#40

Post by Angel Glez »

Ivan0716 wrote: February 23rd, 2020, 12:21 pm I have a question regarding Kôge/The Scent of Incense. It's listed as a single 203 minute film on letterboxd/TMDB, and I saw it as a single film. But on IMDb it's split into part 1 and part 2 (both have the same release date). So if I want to nominate it, can I just do the whole thing as one film, or do I have to put part 1 and 2 in two separate spots?
Don't worry, one nomination covers both parts.
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