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ICM Forum's Favourite Directors 2019 [RESULTS!]

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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Re: ICM Forum's Favourite Directors 2019 [RESULTS!]

#321

Post by Onderhond » February 20th, 2020, 2:29 pm

fori wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 1:52 pm
I think it’s a good thing if some francophone movies get purged from the canon
True!
fori wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 1:52 pm
and make space for previously neglected areas.
Many American directors seems to be rising, so :facepalm:

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#322

Post by albajos » February 20th, 2020, 2:34 pm

cinema is subjective, so it doesn't matter anyway.

France to pump out a lot of crappy mainstream movies as well, just as the US. But these don't get exported. It's hard to pass judgement on something when you just are served a small amount of evidence.

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#323

Post by St. Gloede » February 20th, 2020, 2:35 pm

fori wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 1:52 pm
Still one of the greatest nations for film, just not a top 5 contender.
What countries hold the top 5 spots in your opinion?

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#324

Post by St. Gloede » February 20th, 2020, 2:39 pm

cinephage wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 2:02 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 1:35 pm
To be fair, the largest quantity of their films (though likely not the majority) was made in Germany.
Indeed, but they shot many films in France and in Italy too... And they were very close to most members of the french Nouvelle Vague, Straub was a assistant to Rivette on one of his short film. They went to Germany because Straub didn't want to fight for France in Algeria during his military service, but mostly lived in Italy.

Most of their key films were shot in germany, that's for sure. But I would definitely not consider them as german directors, especially since they made so many appearances on the french scene, with critics or directors...
Not to mention that Straub wrote for Cahiers.

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#325

Post by cinewest » February 20th, 2020, 4:26 pm

fori wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 1:52 pm
And obviously they came up as core members of New German Cinema, and their most acclaimed is largely in German. Silly to even try to make that point really.

I don’t want to engage in interminable arguments with a brigade of francophiles, so this’ll be my last word here. I completely agree that France has had many important filmmakers and movements and is indisputably one of the most important nations in film history. However, due to a mixture of many things including elitist cultural biases, the influence of French theorists on film discourse, strong correlation between francophilic sentiments and film engagement in many English speaking countries etc etc etc, so many other things, France gets way too much credit. Still one of the greatest nations for film, just not a top 5 contender. I think it’s a good thing if some francophone movies get purged from the canon and make space for previously neglected areas.
You could make a much stronger ((need to purge some) case about the "rising" American filmmakers. In fact, I have probably made it before. I see way too many best film lists, even some by established film critics that are 75% or more made up of American (or at least English language) films as if the rest of the world is in the dark ages when it comes to making good movies. Interestingly enough, some of America's leading filmmakers are transplanted foreigners, just as with France.
If there is one thing we seem to agree on, it is that there are many very good filmmakers and different approaches to filmmaking in places that are largely marginalized by filmgoers, even avowed cinephiles.

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#326

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 4:37 pm

#32 (⇩4, #28) Ernst Lubitsch (ICM) Points: 191.96 (32 Votes)
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#327

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 5:02 pm

#31 (⇧1, #32) Wes Anderson (ICM) Points: 194.61 (32 Votes)
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#328

Post by tobias » February 20th, 2020, 5:30 pm

@fori I know all of them but Helma Sanders-Brahms, Peter Fleischmann, Daniel Schmid & Wolf Gremm. I might have heard of some of their films. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern is definitely on my watchlist but I don't know anything about Fleischmann's other films. Could you recommend one film by each of them?

I'm a big fan of Herzog, Wenders, Fassbinder, Kluge and Straub-Huillet. I've been meaning to watch Ottinger's Bildnis einer Trinkerin multiple times over the last few months but something always came inbetween because I made arrangements with other people. Maybe I'll just watch it alone. Syberberg and Reitz I've unfortunately not seen a film by yet but I'll do when I have more time. My parents have seen Heimat, it was a huge hit back then.

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#329

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 5:32 pm

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#330

Post by St. Gloede » February 20th, 2020, 5:46 pm

tobias wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 5:30 pm
@fori I know all of them but Helma Sanders-Brahms, Peter Fleischmann, Daniel Schmid & Wolf Gremm. I might have heard of some of their films. Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern is definitely on my watchlist but I don't know anything about Fleischmann's other films. Could you recommend one film by each of them?

I'm a big fan of Herzog, Wenders, Fassbinder, Kluge and Straub-Huillet. I've been meaning to watch Ottinger's Bildnis einer Trinkerin multiple times over the last few months but something always came inbetween because I made arrangements with other people. Maybe I'll just watch it alone. Syberberg and Reitz I've unfortunately not seen a film by yet but I'll do when I have more time. My parents have seen Heimat, it was a huge hit back then.
Yes, you have to catch up on Jagdszenen aus Niederbayern!

Surprised you haven't heard of Helma Sanders-Brahms. I thought at least Germany Pale Mother had a solid reputation in Germany, though I much preferred Under the Pavement. Need to get around to watching Heinrich soon.

Not seen anything by Daniel Schmid or Wolf Gremm, and not previously heard of/noted the latter.

(Helke Sander was forgotten in the New German Cinema list above, but unfortunately I'm not a big fan of the 2.14 I have seen, she's like a Kluge/Harocki/Ottinger mix)

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#331

Post by OldAle1 » February 20th, 2020, 5:53 pm

Fleischmann's other somewhat well-known film besides Jagdszenen is Es ist nicht leicht ein Gott zu sein, an adaptation of a Strugatski brothers novel - "Hard to Be a God" in English - later adapted more famously by Aleksey German under the original Russian title Trudno byt bogom. It's the only Fleischmann I've seen - thought I might have seen Jagdszenen but no and it doesn't look like I have a copy (still looking). I like his take on the Strugatsky book more than German's but I'm sure I'm in the minority; have never really connected at all with German and don't feel like I've really gotten what he was doing in any of the three films I've seen. Werner Herzog appears as an actor - smallish role as I remember in Es ist nicht leicht....

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#332

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 5:54 pm

#29 (⇩2, #27) Paul Thomas Anderson (ICM) Points: 199.83 (30 Votes)
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#333

Post by blocho » February 20th, 2020, 6:18 pm

tobias wrote:
February 19th, 2020, 10:04 pm
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Early contender for funniest post of the year.

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#334

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 6:19 pm

#28 (⇧6, #34) Carl Theodor Dreyer (ICM) Points: 201.53 (29 Votes)
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#335

Post by blocho » February 20th, 2020, 6:20 pm

fori wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 9:04 am
all the money in domestic film there is in conceptually bankrupt dramas selling Frenchness to wine mums
As microgenres go, "conceptually bankrupt dramas selling Frenchness to wine mums" is my new favorite, joining a pantheon of icm forum microgenres such as "run of the mill hype movie" and "police action crime caper." I can't wait to see my first one.

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#336

Post by blocho » February 20th, 2020, 6:21 pm

cinephage wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 9:24 am
I feel I need to mention here that the best movie about penguins is La marche de l'empereur, another movie directed by a french director...
Those are fighting words. I'll take Encounters at the End of the World any day.

That being said, I wish penguin movies was as popular a genre as shark movies. We haven't really had a great killer penguin movie, have we? Or any killer penguin movie for that matter?

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#337

Post by blocho » February 20th, 2020, 6:33 pm

What's the source of Dreyer's steady rise? He was a fine director, but he hasn't made anything good in more than 50 years.

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#338

Post by Fergenaprido » February 20th, 2020, 6:34 pm

blocho wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 6:21 pm
cinephage wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 9:24 am
I feel I need to mention here that the best movie about penguins is La marche de l'empereur, another movie directed by a french director...
Those are fighting words. I'll take Encounters at the End of the World any day.

That being said, I wish penguin movies was as popular a genre as shark movies. We haven't really had a great killer penguin movie, have we? Or any killer penguin movie for that matter?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7176718/ and is about all I can come up with.

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#339

Post by tobias » February 20th, 2020, 6:34 pm

@St. Gloede - Well, I'm 23 and I think Germany Pale Mother is somewhat forgotten. I've heard about it before at some point and it's in my IMDB watchlist apparently but I don't really know a lot about it or about her. I think it had considerable success when it came out. People in my parents generation may be more likely to know it.

@blocho - yes, we need killer penguin films, please.

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#340

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 6:38 pm

blocho wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 6:33 pm
What's the source of Dreyer's steady rise? He was a fine director, but he hasn't made anything good in more than 50 years.
I assume it's increased availability of his earlier works, but yeah, I don't get it either.

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#341

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 6:41 pm

#27 (⇩8, #19) Rainer Werner Fassbinder (ICM) Points: 205.74 (33 Votes)
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#342

Post by Teproc » February 20th, 2020, 6:57 pm

Obviously the French debacle isn't going the way of German supremacists, this time around.

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#343

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 7:03 pm

#26 (⇩2, #24) Hayao Miyazaki (ICM) Points: 207.34 (36 Votes)
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#344

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 7:25 pm

#25 (⇧5, #30) Jean-Pierre Melville (ICM) Points: 212.24 (31 Votes)
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#345

Post by OldAle1 » February 20th, 2020, 7:33 pm

Not surprised that Melville is an exception to the Francogeddon, given his obvious influence on younger generations of directors - especially Americans like Tarantino.

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#346

Post by albajos » February 20th, 2020, 7:35 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 6:38 pm
blocho wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 6:33 pm
What's the source of Dreyer's steady rise? He was a fine director, but he hasn't made anything good in more than 50 years.
I assume it's increased availability of his earlier works, but yeah, I don't get it either.
He doesn't make anything that would worsen his legacy either

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#347

Post by blocho » February 20th, 2020, 7:43 pm

Fergenaprido wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 6:34 pm
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7176718/ and is about all I can come up with.
YEEESSSSSSS!!!!!

My life is complete now.

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#348

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 7:50 pm

#24 (⇩2, #22) F.W. Murnau (ICM) Points: 212.72 (34 Votes)
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#349

Post by St. Gloede » February 20th, 2020, 8:04 pm

tobias wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 6:34 pm
@St. Gloede - Well, I'm 23 and I think Germany Pale Mother is somewhat forgotten. I've heard about it before at some point and it's in my IMDB watchlist apparently but I don't really know a lot about it or about her. I think it had considerable success when it came out. People in my parents generation may be more likely to know it.
I somehow thought you were a lot older, take that as a compliment. ;)

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#350

Post by St. Gloede » February 20th, 2020, 8:06 pm

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 7:25 pm
#25 (⇧5, #30) Jean-Pierre Melville (ICM) Points: 212.24 (31 Votes)
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Highest ranking ever in the midst of a Francocide, impressed!

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#351

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 8:12 pm

#23 (⇧10, #33) Masaki Kobayashi (ICM) Points: 221.68 (26 Votes)
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#352

Post by Teproc » February 20th, 2020, 8:12 pm

Well, that's because it's not anything about France happening, but against artsy European filmmakers. Fassbinder dropped, the Italians dropped, etc. Melville is an auteur, but he made genre films, so he's fine.

On that note, I'd be surprised if Bergman retained the top spot.

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#353

Post by OldAle1 » February 20th, 2020, 8:18 pm

Teproc wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 8:12 pm
Well, that's because it's not anything about France happening, but against artsy European filmmakers. Fassbinder dropped, the Italians dropped, etc. Melville is an auteur, but he made genre films, so he's fine.

On that note, I'd be surprised if Bergman retained the top spot.
Yeah I'd probably bet on Kubrick, the old dead American guy who seems to fit most into the changing dynamic since last year. Has anybody besides Kubrick/Hitch/Bergman ever been in the top 3?

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#354

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 8:36 pm

#22 (⇧23, #45) Charles Chaplin (ICM) Points: 223.63 (34 Votes)
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#355

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 8:38 pm

OldAle1 wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 8:18 pm
Has anybody besides Kubrick/Hitch/Bergman ever been in the top 3?
Yes, Kurosawa. Also Wilder once in 2015. No one else has been in the top 4.

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#356

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 8:56 pm

#21 (⇧8, #29) Woody Allen (ICM) Points: 225.77 (31 Votes)
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#357

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 9:17 pm

#20 (⇩6, #14) Yasujirô Ozu (ICM) Points: 225.79 (31 Votes)
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#358

Post by Obgeoff » February 20th, 2020, 9:36 pm

Ozu down six. What the fuck? Philistines, all of you except perceval and Ritesh.
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#359

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 20th, 2020, 9:39 pm

#19 (⇧21, #40) Steven Spielberg (ICM) Points: 227.52 (34 Votes)
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#360

Post by fori » February 20th, 2020, 9:39 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 2:35 pm
fori wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 1:52 pm
Still one of the greatest nations for film, just not a top 5 contender.
What countries hold the top 5 spots in your opinion?
Would have to think about think more than I’m going to now but:
Germany, Japan, USA, China/HK/Taiwan, and I’ve not seen enough but I suspect India would ultimately be in there. There are 2 or 3 other contenders I might put ahead of France.

@blocho
https://www.icheckmovies.com/movies/ce+qui+nous+lie/
I’d say that one pretty much exemplifies it. Sydney has “the largest French film festival outside France” but I never go because 95% of the program is this sort of crap.

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