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ICM Forum's Favourite Directors 2019 [RESULTS!]

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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blocho
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Re: ICM Forum's Favourite Directors 2019 [RESULTS!]

#401

Post by blocho » February 21st, 2020, 11:53 pm

Onderhond wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 10:42 pm
Top 10 stats:

1.75 - 12 seen || Kubrick
1.04 - 12 seen || Hitchcock
1.00 - 05 seen || Bergman
1.57 - 13 seen || Kurosawa
1.35 - 21 seen || Scorsese
1.58 - 06 seen || Tarkovsky
1.04 - 11 seen || Wilder
1.25 - 02 seen || Lang
3.35 - 13 seen || Lynch
2.75 - 20 seen || Coen

At least the top 10 doesn't end that badly.
So, you've seen 21 movies that Scorsese did, and you hated almost all of them? Why did you keep watching them?

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#402

Post by Cocoa » February 22nd, 2020, 12:22 am

Ingmar Bergman decreasing (u)

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#403

Post by Cocoa » February 22nd, 2020, 12:28 am

This year, there is only one director in the top 200 I've never seen any films by: Hal Hartley. It's never been this low before.

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#404

Post by cinewest » February 22nd, 2020, 12:38 am

Gershwin wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 7:03 pm
cinewest wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 1:19 am
Teproc wrote:
February 20th, 2020, 8:12 pm
Well, that's because it's not anything about France happening, but against artsy European filmmakers. Fassbinder dropped, the Italians dropped, etc. Melville is an auteur, but he made genre films, so he's fine.

On that note, I'd be surprised if Bergman retained the top spot.
Can't believe nobody else noticed this until you did. More than that, it is filmmakers who employ less conventional narrative structures that have suffered the most.
Could anyone who's saddened by the Decline of the Western European arthouse directors notify me when the voting begins next year?
I didn’t vote in this poll, myself, mainly because ranking my favorite filmmakers beyond my absolute favorites would take more time than I have at the moment.

That said, I was aware of it because I still check in regularly, and if that is the case next year I promise to vote and also send you a pm.

Miss your input around here, cheers

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#405

Post by cinewest » February 22nd, 2020, 12:40 am

St. Gloede wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 7:43 pm
PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 7:42 pm
#9 (⇧2, #11) David Lynch (ICM) Points: 330.75 (41 Votes)
Top 1–5–10: 2–8–12

History: 91198968←11
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Key Film: Mulholland Dr. (2001) [Mulholland Drive] – 25 Official Lists, also on IMdb
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List of Voters:Show
brokenface (1)
RedHawk10 (1)
Perception de Ambiguity (2)
russa03 (2)
mathiasa (3)
mightysparks (3)
maxwelldeux (4)
explorer95 (5)
zuma (8)
peeptoad (9)
Smoover (10)
Lonewolf2003 (10)
clemmetarey (12)
klaus78 (15)
blocho (NA)
OldAle1 (NA)
jeff_v (22)
Gorro (24)
perceval (24)
cinephage (29)
allisoncm (32)
St. Gloede (32)
tommy_leazaq (33)
Tarris1 (33)
sebby (35)
connordenney (36)
Gordon_Gekko (40)
1SO (41)
Ritesh (NA)
rnilsson19 (48)
tobias (50)
Onderhond (55)
Coryn (56)
psychotronicbeatnik (NA)
Caracortada (58)
Panunzio (72)
joachimt (99)
AB537 (NA)
Peaceful Anarchy (132)
Obgeoff (139)
Jimi Antiloop (179)
Lynch is up. Long live surrealism.
It’s the Americans and English language films that are up

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#406

Post by AB537 » February 22nd, 2020, 12:57 am

PeacefulAnarchy wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 3:31 pm
#14 (⇩2, #12) Orson Welles (ICM) Points: 251.83 (39 Votes)
Top 1–5–10: 0–1–3

History: 14121212201612←19
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Key Film: Citizen Kane (1941) – 36 Official Lists, also on IMdb
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List of Voters:Show
AB537 (4)
OldAle1 (NA)
Panunzio (6)
Opio (13)
connordenney (14)
klaus78 (14)
brokenface (15)
St. Gloede (15)
RedHawk10 (16)
jeff_v (18)
clemmetarey (19)
tommy_leazaq (21)
joachimt (26)
sol (27)
tobias (28)
Gorro (30)
Lonewolf2003 (38)
Jimi Antiloop (39)
Obgeoff (40)
Caracortada (43)
Perception de Ambiguity (47)
Ritesh (NA)
Coryn (48)
Smoover (49)
sebby (51)
blocho (NA)
ororama (55)
Carmel1379 (56)
psychotronicbeatnik (NA)
zuma (60)
Fergenaprido (69)
RogerTheMovieManiac88 (NA)
cinephage (78)
Tarris1 (NA)
maxwelldeux (81)
Peaceful Anarchy (83)
Gordon_Gekko (87)
perceval (150)
mathiasa (189)
Kind of surprised I was Welles' highest vote at #4.

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#407

Post by AB537 » February 22nd, 2020, 1:00 am

Cocoa wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 12:28 am
This year, there is only one director in the top 200 I've never seen any films by: Hal Hartley. It's never been this low before.
13 for me. But only two in the top 100: Naruse and Sono. Will have to make a point of seeking out their stuff this year.

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#408

Post by OldAle1 » February 22nd, 2020, 1:08 am

AB537 wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 1:00 am
Cocoa wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 12:28 am
This year, there is only one director in the top 200 I've never seen any films by: Hal Hartley. It's never been this low before.
13 for me. But only two in the top 100: Naruse and Sono. Will have to make a point of seeking out their stuff this year.
One for me also - Takashi Miike, though like just about everybody (all but one person I suspect) I've only seen a film or two from several folks.

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#409

Post by AB537 » February 22nd, 2020, 2:32 am

OldAle1 wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 1:08 am
AB537 wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 1:00 am
Cocoa wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 12:28 am
This year, there is only one director in the top 200 I've never seen any films by: Hal Hartley. It's never been this low before.
13 for me. But only two in the top 100: Naruse and Sono. Will have to make a point of seeking out their stuff this year.
One for me also - Takashi Miike, though like just about everybody (all but one person I suspect) I've only seen a film or two from several folks.
No doubt. Miike is one of mine as well, but that might change for me soon as Audition is playing in Toronto in the next few weeks - hopefully I'll be available that night. Based on my personal taste and comments I've seen from others, Chabrol is probably the most egregious omission on my current list.

CORRECTION: I just connected my vague memory of seeing 13 Assassins years ago with Miike, so I guess he's off my "totally unwatched" list, which is down to 12.
Last edited by AB537 on February 23rd, 2020, 5:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#410

Post by fori » February 22nd, 2020, 2:33 am

blocho wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 11:53 pm
Onderhond wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 10:42 pm
Top 10 stats:

1.75 - 12 seen || Kubrick
1.04 - 12 seen || Hitchcock
1.00 - 05 seen || Bergman
1.57 - 13 seen || Kurosawa
1.35 - 21 seen || Scorsese
1.58 - 06 seen || Tarkovsky
1.04 - 11 seen || Wilder
1.25 - 02 seen || Lang
3.35 - 13 seen || Lynch
2.75 - 20 seen || Coen

At least the top 10 doesn't end that badly.
So, you've seen 21 movies that Scorsese did, and you hated almost all of them? Why did you keep watching them?
Presumably because of the unending praise for them.

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#411

Post by sebby » February 22nd, 2020, 6:23 am

Cocoa wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 12:28 am
This year, there is only one director in the top 200 I've never seen any films by: Hal Hartley. It's never been this low before.
WATCH TRUST NOW

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#412

Post by Onderhond » February 22nd, 2020, 8:40 am

blocho wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 11:53 pm
So, you've seen 21 movies that Scorsese did, and you hated almost all of them? Why did you keep watching them?
Well, I've done so over a period of roughly 20 years, so that's just over 1 movie each year. And I watch enough movies for there to be "gaps" in my schedule, which I tend to fill with widely loved films. It helps to know what other film fans are talking about, no?

Here's a more detailed list of my Scorsese ratings, which shows there were at least 3 of his films I didn't find all that bad.

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#413

Post by PGonzalez » February 22nd, 2020, 1:02 pm

Thank you very much for your work Peaceful, I had a great time following the results!

I particularly enjoyed reading the discussion about the merits of French cinema (I somehow understand fori's point of view, one which I share regarding the UK and above all Australia, whose contribution to world cinema seems to consist mainly of sharing the same language with the US) and the yearly tradition of discussing Fellini (who would have been my number 1 or 2 if I submitted a list, and whose drop is a bit saddening).

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#414

Post by Obgeoff » February 22nd, 2020, 1:35 pm

Thank you to Peaceful Anarchy for a wonderful countdown.
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#415

Post by Gershwin » February 22nd, 2020, 6:34 pm

cinewest wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 12:38 am
Gershwin wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 7:03 pm
cinewest wrote:
February 21st, 2020, 1:19 am


Can't believe nobody else noticed this until you did. More than that, it is filmmakers who employ less conventional narrative structures that have suffered the most.
Could anyone who's saddened by the Decline of the Western European arthouse directors notify me when the voting begins next year?
I didn’t vote in this poll, myself, mainly because ranking my favorite filmmakers beyond my absolute favorites would take more time than I have at the moment.

That said, I was aware of it because I still check in regularly, and if that is the case next year I promise to vote and also send you a pm.

Miss your input around here, cheers
Thanks, Cinewest! I've been too busy doing other things the last half year or so, my movie watching has got so scarce I often don't feel like I can add anything meaningful to the conversation.
The good thing about that is that my list of favourite directors rarely changes anymore. :)
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#416

Post by blocho » February 22nd, 2020, 9:56 pm

Onderhond wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 8:40 am
It helps to know what other film fans are talking about, no?
I genuinely admire your commitment to seeing movies that are admired even if you don't like them. It shows a very ecumenical spirit. It's not something I could do.

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#417

Post by mightysparks » February 22nd, 2020, 11:45 pm

blocho wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 9:56 pm
Onderhond wrote:
February 22nd, 2020, 8:40 am
It helps to know what other film fans are talking about, no?
I genuinely admire your commitment to seeing movies that are admired even if you don't like them. It shows a very ecumenical spirit. It's not something I could do.
You can’t know if you like them until you watch them :P
"I do not always know what I want, but I do know what I don't want." - Stanley Kubrick

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#418

Post by cinewest » February 23rd, 2020, 2:27 am

Have to say, I also have trouble understanding why people would want to keep watching stuff they don’t like.

I’m all for having an open mind, even trying certain kinds of things more than once before I make up my mind, as well as revisiting every now and then to see whether my own perceptions have changed, and I guess there is some value to having a few common cultural reference points... but it seems like a huge waste of time to keep choosing to watch things you don’t like, even a bit dim witted, or masochistic, whether you are repeating the same thing out of ignorance or not.
Last edited by cinewest on February 23rd, 2020, 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#419

Post by mightysparks » February 23rd, 2020, 3:11 am

Well, I don't choose to watch things I don't like since I don't know if I'll like them until I've watched them, and I assume that goes for most people. I'm sure no-one is sitting around rewatching their 1/10s on repeat, we're choosing a film looking for a new experience. I watch film because I love film and the experience of film and learning about film, not because I'm looking for some quick fix that will meet my exact expectations and desires (well, maybe sometimes). I find very few directors consistent so if I watch 1 or 5 films by a single director and dislike all of them, that means nothing to me. I might love the next 1 or 5. Sometimes it takes a while to get to know a film movement or genre or director and the only way to improve this connection is by participating actively in it. Avoiding it completely or just basing everything off other people's opinions would be pointless.

People seem to really hate it if people watch films entirely for fun or not entirely for fun, I don't get it. Not every likes everything or does everything the same way.
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#420

Post by fori » February 23rd, 2020, 8:10 am

I’m surprised by this reaction. Isn’t this exactly what list completionism entails? For instance many on this forum (myself included) have finished TSPDT, and I’m pretty certain we all watched things we wouldn’t want to otherwise.

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#421

Post by Onderhond » February 23rd, 2020, 11:53 am

cinewest wrote:
February 23rd, 2020, 2:27 am
Have to say, I also have trouble understanding why people would want to keep watching stuff they don’t like.
Some people learn to deal with "undergoing" stuff they don't like. It's actually a pretty good characteristic to have and it puts a whole new perspective on the "whiney child" mode some people tend to get into when they have to eat/watch/listen to something they don't like.

From the age of 12 or so, I've gotten used to going out of my way to find things I like. Mainstream radio/tv/cinemas/bookstores have never really catered to my tastes. That also means you'll be unwillingly confronted with crap all year through. Evening with the parents in laws and the TV is on, outing with the girlfriend to the cinema, the radio on New Years eve, ... but you get used to that and you learn how to deal with it in order to avoid becoming a total social pariah.

Furthermore, this is the internet so there's always going to be some people who "don"t get it". If you don't watch these films there are people who find you can't have an opinion of them, if you do watch them some people won't understand why you do so. I've stopped worrying about that years ago.

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#422

Post by OldAle1 » February 23rd, 2020, 2:05 pm

fori wrote:
February 23rd, 2020, 8:10 am
I’m surprised by this reaction. Isn’t this exactly what list completionism entails? For instance many on this forum (myself included) have finished TSPDT, and I’m pretty certain we all watched things we wouldn’t want to otherwise.
Yeah but I don't know that mighty is that much of a completionist or list-follower apart from horror, and Onderhond certainly isn't an official check whore. I think their negativity - or the perception of it by some of us - comes from elsewhere.

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#423

Post by mightysparks » February 23rd, 2020, 2:34 pm

I am a pretty big completionist though I haven’t really followed any lists for a few years now (I finished TSPDT in 2014 and I haven’t focused on any since). Only started getting back into it recently.

Onderhond seems to love more stuff than me overall, but hates more of the mainstream stuff. I don’t hate much stuff, but feel meh about most things and rarely connect strongly to anything. I just hate a handful of popular things that caught people’s attention in the early days of the forum.
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#424

Post by Onderhond » February 23rd, 2020, 4:52 pm

mightysparks wrote:
February 23rd, 2020, 2:34 pm
Onderhond seems to love more stuff than me overall, but hates more of the mainstream stuff. I don’t hate much stuff, but feel meh about most things and rarely connect strongly to anything.
Going by the week-listings, that seems like a fair summary.

I do think I am a completist though, but not the kind that works very hard on specific lists. I'm more the "steady wins the race" type B)

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#425

Post by St. Gloede » February 23rd, 2020, 4:58 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
February 16th, 2020, 4:46 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
February 16th, 2020, 2:52 pm
The most interesting (and to me unfortunate) trend to note so far is that every single French-born or primarily French-speaking director has lost ground. Most of the big moves upward have been from Americans or English speakers, with a few notable exceptions like Bong. I'm guessing this is mostly the result of who voted compared to last year as opposed to anything really meaningful, but it's still a bit depressing.
Really interesting note OldAle, and as I love stats I decided to do a tally:

Directors listed so far: 76, of which 34 went up, 31 went down and 1 stayed put

English Language Directors:
37 made the list, of which 26 went up and 11 went down

All non-EN Directors:
29 made the list of which 8 went up and 20 went down, 1 stayed put.

French Language Directors:
10 made the list of which 1 went up and 9 went down.

Asian Directors:
10 made the list of which 2 went up and 8 went down.

US Directors:
27 made the list of which 20 went up and 7 went down.

*Yorgos Lanthimos was counted as EN as his biggest films, sans Dogtooth, are EN
*Paul Verhoeven was counted as EN/US
*Ang Lee was not counted as EN, he went down
-
*The only French language director to move up was Ousmane Sembene
*Refn is the non-EN director staying put, he could be considered EN

-

And yes, these are pretty extreme trends. It is also interesting that of the extremely few (8) directors who did not primarily work producing English language films, less than half were French speaking or from an Asian country...

The 5 others were:

Emir Kusturica (Yugoslavia, Serbia)
Thomas Vinterberg (Denmark)
*Nuri Bilge Ceylan (Turkey, partially in Asia)
Mario Bava (Italy)
Dario Argento (Italy)
Directors counted so far: 108, of which 61 went up, 44 went down and 3 stayed put, will count out the rest later.

English Language Directors:
57 made the list, of which 40 went up and 15 went down, and 2 stayed put.

All non-EN Directors:
51 made the list of which 21 went up and 29 went down, 1 stayed put.

French Language Directors:
15 made the list of which 2 went up and 13 went down.

Asian Directors:
20 made the list of which 10 went up and 10 went down.

US Directors:
43 made the list of which 31 went up and 10 went down and 2 stayed put.

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#426

Post by St. Gloede » February 23rd, 2020, 8:45 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
February 23rd, 2020, 4:58 pm
St. Gloede wrote:
February 16th, 2020, 4:46 pm
OldAle1 wrote:
February 16th, 2020, 2:52 pm
The most interesting (and to me unfortunate) trend to note so far is that every single French-born or primarily French-speaking director has lost ground. Most of the big moves upward have been from Americans or English speakers, with a few notable exceptions like Bong. I'm guessing this is mostly the result of who voted compared to last year as opposed to anything really meaningful, but it's still a bit depressing.
Really interesting note OldAle, and as I love stats I decided to do a tally:

Directors listed so far: 76, of which 34 went up, 31 went down and 1 stayed put

English Language Directors:
37 made the list, of which 26 went up and 11 went down

All non-EN Directors:
29 made the list of which 8 went up and 20 went down, 1 stayed put.

French Language Directors:
10 made the list of which 1 went up and 9 went down.

Asian Directors:
10 made the list of which 2 went up and 8 went down.

US Directors:
27 made the list of which 20 went up and 7 went down.

*Yorgos Lanthimos was counted as EN as his biggest films, sans Dogtooth, are EN
*Paul Verhoeven was counted as EN/US
*Ang Lee was not counted as EN, he went down
-
*The only French language director to move up was Ousmane Sembene
*Refn is the non-EN director staying put, he could be considered EN

-

And yes, these are pretty extreme trends. It is also interesting that of the extremely few (8) directors who did not primarily work producing English language films, less than half were French speaking or from an Asian country...

The 5 others were:

Emir Kusturica (Yugoslavia, Serbia)
Thomas Vinterberg (Denmark)
*Nuri Bilge Ceylan (Turkey, partially in Asia)
Mario Bava (Italy)
Dario Argento (Italy)
Directors counted so far: 108, of which 61 went up, 44 went down and 3 stayed put, will count out the rest later.

English Language Directors:
57 made the list, of which 40 went up and 15 went down, and 2 stayed put.

All non-EN Directors:
51 made the list of which 21 went up and 29 went down, 1 stayed put.

French Language Directors:
15 made the list of which 2 went up and 13 went down.

Asian Directors:
20 made the list of which 10 went up and 10 went down.

US Directors:
43 made the list of which 31 went up and 10 went down and 2 stayed put.
Finally finished tallying all 200. Overall 107 went up, 84 went down and 7 stayed put, will count out the rest later.

English Language Directors:
100 made the list, of which 72 went up and 25 went down, and 2 stayed put.

All non-EN Directors:
100 made the list of which 35 went up and 59 went down, 5 stayed put.

French Language Directors:
29 made the list of which 5 went up and 22 went down, 2 stayed put.

Asian Directors:
32 made the list of which 14 went up and 17 went down, 1 stayed put.

US Directors:
81 made the list of which 59 went up and 20 went down and 2 stayed put.

*A few directors can be argued to belong in multiple categories, I made the call in favor of quantity and importance.

Interesting to see the exact 50/50 split, though of course many of the 100 counted as English language directors made several films in other languages.

The trend held strong, ie.

1. US directors soared, almost 3 times as many directors went up than down
2. Reverse stats for French Language directors, over 4 times as many went down as up
3. Asia almost bucked the trend and kept a solid balance between ups and downs

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#427

Post by peeptoad » February 24th, 2020, 1:48 pm

3 out of my top 5 made it (big loss is no Jodorowsky, unless I missed him somewhere), but not bad... usually I am way worse with these polls.

THANK YOU, PA!! :cheers:

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#428

Post by blocho » February 24th, 2020, 4:02 pm

Will there be a list of all results or some runners-up?

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#429

Post by PeacefulAnarchy » February 24th, 2020, 5:07 pm

Yeah, tomorrow.
I'll do runners up and drop offs and update the first post.

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#430

Post by OldAle1 » February 24th, 2020, 5:10 pm

St. Gloede wrote:
February 23rd, 2020, 8:45 pm


Finally finished tallying all 200. Overall 107 went up, 84 went down and 7 stayed put, will count out the rest later.

English Language Directors:
100 made the list, of which 72 went up and 25 went down, and 2 stayed put.

All non-EN Directors:
100 made the list of which 35 went up and 59 went down, 5 stayed put.

French Language Directors:
29 made the list of which 5 went up and 22 went down, 2 stayed put.

Asian Directors:
32 made the list of which 14 went up and 17 went down, 1 stayed put.

US Directors:
81 made the list of which 59 went up and 20 went down and 2 stayed put.

*A few directors can be argued to belong in multiple categories, I made the call in favor of quantity and importance.

Interesting to see the exact 50/50 split, though of course many of the 100 counted as English language directors made several films in other languages.

The trend held strong, ie.

1. US directors soared, almost 3 times as many directors went up than down
2. Reverse stats for French Language directors, over 4 times as many went down as up
3. Asia almost bucked the trend and kept a solid balance between ups and downs
Interesting stuff, thanks. I think a pretty large portion of the change is due to different voters, but I do think the trends towards Asian and American directors, younger directors, and away from France and to a lesser extent the rest of Europe are something reflected in larger film culture - though not on for example TSP.

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