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World Cup, Season 4, Match 1B: Italy vs Senegal vs Slovenia vs Taiwan (Jan 26th)

500<400, Favourite 1001 movies, Doubling the Canon, Film World Cup and many other votes
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World Cup, Season 4, Match 1B: Italy vs Senegal vs Slovenia vs Taiwan (Jan 26th)

#1

Post by joachimt » December 29th, 2019, 12:49 pm

This is match 1B of the fourth season of iCM Forum's Film World Cup.

CountryOriginal TitleEnglish TitleYearManagerIMDBICM
ItalyRespiro2002hurluberlulinklink
SenegalCamp de ThiaroyeThe Camp at Thiaroye1988Fergenapridolinklink
SloveniaSamorastnikiWild Growth1963Mario Gaborovićlinklink
TaiwanChun hua meng luA Drifting Life1996Mate_cosidolinklink

ScreenshotsShow
Respiro
Image

Camp de Thiaroye
Image

Samorastniki
Image

Chun hua meng lu
Image
Voting Rules:
- You must watch all 4 films before you vote.
- To vote, rank the 4 films from most favorite to least favorite. (note: you're ranking the individual films, not the countries)

Voting deadline = Jan 26th
Countdown till deadline

The countries that end at 1st and 2nd place proceed to the next round. The ranking of the match will be decided using these rules:
- Ranked by highest average ranking (= lowest number).
- In case of a tie between two movies, head-to-head determines the winner (how many people thought A>B and how many thought B>A).
- In case there's still a tie after the previous rule or there is a tie between three or four movies, most #1-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? Fewest #4-votes determines the winner.
- Still a tie? The match will have a 3 day extension (except when the tie is only between #3 and #4).
Here's a quick summary of how the tournament worksShow
We start with 32 films from 32 countries. Each country has a manager who determines which movie will be watched. In the first round the countries are divided into 8 groups of 4. From each group the countries that end up at #1 and #2 proceed to the next round. In the 2nd round the 16 remaining countries will be divided into 8 matches of 2. The managers pick a new movie. The winner of each match proceeds to the next round. This continues till the final.
iCM-list of all movies in this World Cup

List of all topics related to the World Cup including previous seasons
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#2

Post by 72aicm » December 30th, 2019, 9:10 am

1. Respiro
2. Camp de Thiaroye
3. Samorastniki
4. Chun hua meng lu

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#3

Post by Traveller » December 31st, 2019, 11:40 am

Good round. I liked all of them and it was close as well; had a hard time ranking them in the end.

1. Chun hua meng lu
2. Samorastniki
3. Camp de Thiaroye
4. Respiro
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But at the bottom, the immanent philosopher sees in the entire universe only the deepest longing for absolute annihilation, and it is as if he clearly hears the call that permeates all spheres of heaven: Redemption! Redemption! Death to our life! and the comforting answer: you will all find annihilation and be redeemed!

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#4

Post by beavis » January 2nd, 2020, 6:37 pm

interesting films... but still, not the strongest round for my taste, even a dislike in there... ah, well, I like to see more films from all these countries!

1 - Respiro - 7,5
2 - Camp de Thiaroye - 7,5
3 - Chun hua meng lu - 7
4 - Samorastniki - 5

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#5

Post by Cocoa » January 2nd, 2020, 10:27 pm

1. Camp de Thiaroye 7/10
2. Chun hua meng lu 5/10
3. Samorastniki 5/10
4. Respiro 4/10

I don't hold strong opinions on these films. I just watched Camp de Thiaroye today and the others are mostly forgettable films even though I watched them last month. What I recall from those three films are not positive feelings, but boredom and/or annoyance depending on the film.

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#6

Post by joachimt » January 3rd, 2020, 7:18 am

Senegal leading after four votes. I think this is going to be an unpredictable round. Respiro is going up and down so far: #1 #4 #1 #4
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#7

Post by joachimt » January 3rd, 2020, 9:48 am

1. Camp de Thiaroye 8/10
Seen it long ago, but no need to rewatch it, because the others don't come close.
2. Samorastniki 7/10
Beautiful B&W cinematography. A shame the story was too fragmented. I couldn't get into their love, because it all happened so sudden in the beginning.
3. Respiro 6/10
Vague story, but at least it had a very good performance.
4. Chun hua meng lu 5/10
Got a bit bored.
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#8

Post by Mario Gaborović » January 3rd, 2020, 10:07 am

1. Samorastniki
2. Respiro
3. Camp de Thiaroye
4. Chun hua meng lu

No tactical ranking for me, just plain impressions.
SpoilerShow
(I liked Respiro's first half quite a lot, but somehow I felt it led nowhere from the middle onwards.)

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#9

Post by Mario Gaborović » January 3rd, 2020, 10:30 am

I couldn't get into their love, because it all happened so sudden in the beginning.
The focus is actually a strong pro-leftist commentary, yet devoid of all kinds of commie pamphlet one would expect from a socialist cinema. The writer himself (Prežihov Voranc) was an active Marxist who spread these ideas all across Europe and fought against right-wing order even before they seized power. Romance is only the most usual motif when it comes to who-the-f*ck-are-you-not-to-let-us-mix-with-your-noble-kind.

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#10

Post by Armoreska » January 3rd, 2020, 11:52 am

First two votes cancelled out, funny
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currently working towards a vegan/low waste world + thru such film lists (besides TV): 2010s bests, RW Fassbinder, Luis Bunuel, Yasujiro Ozu, Eric Rohmer, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#11

Post by zuma » January 4th, 2020, 4:12 am

01 - Camp de Thiaroye

02 - Chun hua meng lu

03 - Respiro

04 - Samorastniki

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#12

Post by Fergenaprido » January 4th, 2020, 11:22 am

Armoreska wrote:
January 3rd, 2020, 11:52 am
First two votes cancelled out, funny
I noticed that too, which got me to thinking: What if those two votes were the only two votes? Then as best as I can tell from the tiebreaker rules, Italy and Taiwan would move on since they have the most #1 votes

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#13

Post by kingink » January 4th, 2020, 6:12 pm

This was a very good round for me! I had a very hard time ranking them.

01 - Respiro 8/10 This was a surprise! I expected another Tornatore influenced mediocre film, but instead I got the beautiful Golino giving a great performance in a solid family drama.

02 - Samorastniki 8/10 I am such a sucker for these kind of melodramas... Very well shot, with beautiful cinematography and a strong feminist/social meaning.

03 - Camp de Thiaroye 8/10 I like the story etc, but Sembene's direction gave it the third place. Not the most impressive I have to say.

04 - Chun hua meng lu 7/10 A better editing could have made this much better. The slow pace didn't work very well throughout the film. Too bad...

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#14

Post by Mario Gaborović » January 4th, 2020, 6:29 pm

Much more even group than the previous one. So far the rankings are:

1. Image Camp de Thiaroye 16-8
2. Image Respiro 13-11
3. Image Samorastniki 11-13
4. Image Chun hua meng lu 8-16

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#15

Post by joachimt » January 5th, 2020, 8:06 pm

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#16

Post by filmbantha » January 7th, 2020, 7:11 pm

1. Respiro - An enchanting slice of life film with fascinating characters in a beautiful setting. This made me long to revisit the Italian coastline and I came very close to hitting the favourite button. 7/10

2. A Drifting Life - The precise framing and captivating imagery made this a delight to sit through. I can see why its measured and contemplative pace may not be for everyone but I was engrossed from very early on and found the poignant storyline affecting. A very close second place. 7/10

3. Camp De Thiaroye - I watched this a couple of years ago and it was a film that I appreciated more than I enjoyed. It is no doubt an accomplished effort but one that I have no great urge to revisit at present. 7/10

4. Wild Growth - This came close to being yet another 7 but I was underwhelmed by the film's resolution. It certainly has its moments and I am glad to have seen it though it left less of an impression on me than the others in the group. 6/10

Great selections all round. I would be happy to watch more choices from any of these countries/managers based on the calibre of the first round picks. :cheers:

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#17

Post by Smoover » January 11th, 2020, 1:48 pm

1. Camp de Thiaroye 9/10

2. Chun hua meng lu 7/10

3. Samorastniki 7/10

4. Respiro 7/10

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#18

Post by Mate_cosido » January 11th, 2020, 2:18 pm

1. Camp de Thiaroye
2. Chun hua meng lu
3. Samorastniki
4. Respiro

I knew my pick will probably not make it, but i ended up choosing the one with less checks out of my candidates, i do wonder how the others would have fared

Also, i couldn't put mine first cause thiaroye is one of my all time favourites, but all movies were very good, thanks to all the managers and players!
Last edited by Mate_cosido on January 12th, 2020, 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#19

Post by joachimt » January 11th, 2020, 4:03 pm

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#20

Post by Muellwind » January 12th, 2020, 12:21 am

1. Respiro
2. Samorastniki
3. Camp de Thiaroye
4. Chun hua meng lu

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#21

Post by jvv » January 12th, 2020, 2:43 pm

1. Camp de Thiaroye
2. Respiro
3. Samorastniki
4. Chun hua meng lu

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#22

Post by Angel Glez » January 16th, 2020, 10:06 am

1.Camp de Thiaroye
2.Samorastniki
3.Respiro
4.Chun hua meng lu

Good round. Special thanks to Mario for my favorite first WC viewing.

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#23

Post by hurluberlu » January 16th, 2020, 7:06 pm

1. Respiro (l)

2. A Drifting Life 8-

3. Camp De Thiaroye 7

4. Wild Growth 6+
#JeSuisCharlie Liberté, Liberté chérie !

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#24

Post by Armoreska » January 17th, 2020, 6:47 pm

Camp De Thiaroye 7
Samorastniki (Wild Growth) 6
Respiro 5-
Chun hua meng lu (A Drifting Life) 3

Come on. Taiwan and Italy can do better. It's not WC #13 yet. 2nd round voting against the top countries while underdog countries bring their A game.
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viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#25

Post by Mario Gaborović » January 18th, 2020, 10:13 am

1. Image Camp de Thiaroye 34-14
2. Image Respiro 26-22
3. Image Samorastniki 20-28
4. Image Chun hua meng lu 16-32

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#26

Post by maxwelldeux » January 19th, 2020, 4:09 am

1. Camp de Thiaroye (l)
2. Respiro
3. Chun hua meng lu
4. Samorastniki
SpoilerShow
Well, Camp de Thiaroye is my first favorite of the WC; I thought it did a great job at telling an important story about racism from WW2. Probably needed some editing, as it was paced quite slowly, but the personal story and tension build more than made up for that. Respiro and Chun hua meng lu were really close, with Valeria Golino's performance being the deciding factor for me. Samorastniki was not a bad film by any means, just stacked a few too many things up that I didn't connect with.
Thanks to all the managers! With the exception of Thiaroye (*cough5listscough*), I probably wouldn't have explored these films on my own, but I'm very glad I did. :cheers:

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#27

Post by zhangalan » January 19th, 2020, 1:03 pm

1.Camp de Thiaroye
2.Chun hua meng lu
3.Samorastniki
4.Respiro

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#28

Post by Nathan Treadway » January 19th, 2020, 8:21 pm

1. Samorastniki
2. Respiro
3. Camp de Thiaroye
4. Chun hua meng lu

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#29

Post by joachimt » January 19th, 2020, 8:37 pm

Compared to the exciting graph in 1C, this graph is pretty boring:

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#30

Post by Fergenaprido » January 20th, 2020, 4:18 pm

1. SEN - Camp de Thiaroye - 7.6
2. TWN - A Drifting Life - 6.5-7ish
3. SVN - Wild Growth - 5.5-6ish
4. ITA - Respiro - 5.5ish (borderline dislike)

Thiaroye was my pick, so I'm glad I ended up liking it the most and didn't have to vote against it. Glad that it's getting some more love, as I thought this film was more well-known that it is; was surprised to find out it had so few checks despite it being from a well-known director and on a number of lists. The film is on the long side, but overall I think it really works, and the amateurish acting only detracted a little from my enjoyment of the film. Also, made me much more interested in the actual historical incident. Saw this last November when I was deciding on my pick.

Watched the other three yesterday and today, and none of them came close, but there was a clear pecking order (Smoover, Mate, and zhangalan all got it right :P ).

Since "cancel culture" has become such a big thing lately, can we just cancel Italy, their films, and Italian machismo?
I'm only half serious - mini-rant plus minor spoilersShow
I jest, yes, but frankly I'm getting tired of being spoonfed the same boring male-dominated experience on screen that they've been giving us since at least the 1940s. They seem to want to hold on to their sexism no matter what (this is the same country lead by philandering Berlusconi for a spell and the one that featured bikini-clad young women as eye candy on their daytime talk shows {and game shows?} for no good reason) and I'm not here for it.
But back to the film. It didn't know if it wanted to be an episodic slice of life on a small Italians island, or a compelling narrative about one women's struggles with mental illness. Maybe if it had stuck to one or the other, I would have enjoyed it more. Everywhere I saw a summary, it promoted the film about the main lead running away and hiding in a cave after her family want to send her to Milan. That only happens after 2/3 of the film is over, so the rest of the scenes felt superfluous and distracting from the narrative. Perhaps I would have enjoyed it more if it had presented itself more honestly from the start. Still, aside from the obvious puberty Pasquale was going through (the film takes places over a week or two, but he clearly grew by a few months, so much that at one point I thought it was a new actor... clearly not his/anyone's fault, but still distracting), no character had any development, purpose, or even real impetus to exist (maybe that was the point? commentary on the idleness of island life?). Yes, the lead actress was pretty great, and the island was pretty... but that's about it. And the bullshit about men of all ages having control over women... I refuse to believe that's actually a component of modern Italian society. Can you really convince me that a 12 year old boy is able to boss around and physically manhandle his mother and older sister?
Next.

Wild Growth was better, but just bland. Agreed about Joachim's comment about the film being too fragmented. I was put off by the jarring editing and lack of any character development aside from the obvious fact that the film takes place over several years. A treasured national story it may be (and I recognize and acknowledge the leftist leanings and the context of Yugoslav life in the '60s when this was made), but that wasn't enough to make this interesting. The triumph of getting the cart over the hill, and the about-face by the villagers after all that time were so over the top as to be ridiculous. The only saving grace for me was the cinematography, which was not only beautiful (was this restored recently? I wish so many other films received the same treatment), but did a better job telling the story than any of the actors did. The scene with the chandelier, for example, was quite stunning.

Just finished A Drifting Life, and I think it benefits from the poor viewing experiences of the other two films. Normally I wouldn't really enjoy slow-moving (boring) films like this, but perhaps my mood, or perhaps my expectations, affected my viewing and this was all right. I think the English title sums up the film quite well; the lead character kind of just drifts through life after his wife dies. Some nice shots of the Taiwanese countryside, and at least some of the characters grew as the film progressed. One downside was the subtitles were pretty shitty. Is there any Mandarin-speaker who could fix them? I think it would definitely improve viewing pleasure/comprehension (one hilarious example: it said "I can't brief" instead of "I can't breathe" at one point). And thanks to Mate for picking this one; it's definitely a film I never would have encountered on my own without the WC, and I think that's a large part of what makes this enjoyable for me (No disrespect intended to hurlu & Mario... just not my cup of tea this time).
Last edited by Fergenaprido on January 23rd, 2020, 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#31

Post by weirdboy » January 21st, 2020, 11:37 am

1. Camp de Thiaroye
2. Samorastniki
3. Chun hua meng lu
4. Respiro

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#32

Post by weirdboy » January 21st, 2020, 11:50 am

I agreed with Fergenaprido's comments about Respiro, although I disagree about Wild Growth. It did not feel disconnected to me, although it did remind me of some other 60's/70's films floating around about persecution and high level power plays (e.g. Witchhammer, The Devils, Witchmaster General, Pharoah).

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#33

Post by zhangalan » January 21st, 2020, 12:45 pm

weirdboy wrote:
January 21st, 2020, 11:50 am
I agreed with Fergenaprido's comments about Respiro, although I disagree about Wild Growth. It did not feel disconnected to me, although it did remind me of some other 60's/70's films floating around about persecution and high level power plays (e.g. Witchhammer, The Devils, Witchmaster General, Pharoah).
Interesting.
I thought about Witchhammer too when I watched Wild Growth.

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#34

Post by Fergenaprido » January 21st, 2020, 2:58 pm

zhangalan wrote:
January 21st, 2020, 12:45 pm
weirdboy wrote:
January 21st, 2020, 11:50 am
I agreed with Fergenaprido's comments about Respiro, although I disagree about Wild Growth. It did not feel disconnected to me, although it did remind me of some other 60's/70's films floating around about persecution and high level power plays (e.g. Witchhammer, The Devils, Witchmaster General, Pharoah).
Interesting.
I thought about Witchhammer too when I watched Wild Growth.
Hmm, haven't seen Witchhammer, maybe I'll give that one a whirl.

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#35

Post by joachimt » January 21st, 2020, 6:39 pm

Italy isn't safe yet:

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5.5 days left.
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#36

Post by klaus78 » January 21st, 2020, 7:39 pm

1. Camp de Thiaroye (Senegal) 7/10
2. Chun hua meng lu (Taiwan) 7/10
3. Samorastniki (Slovenia) 7/10
4. Respiro (Italy) 6/10
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#37

Post by Armoreska » January 23rd, 2020, 1:06 pm

Votes for Slovenia (vs Italy) in a row: 5

2 pts apart with 4 days to go
Last edited by Armoreska on January 24th, 2020, 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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currently working towards a vegan/low waste world + thru such film lists (besides TV): 2010s bests, RW Fassbinder, Luis Bunuel, Yasujiro Ozu, Eric Rohmer, Visual Effects nominees, kid-related stuff, great animes (mini-serie or feature), very 80s movies, 17+ sci-fi lists on watchlist, ENVIRO, remarkable Silent Films and Pre-Code (exploring 1925 atm) and every shorts and docu list I'm aware of and
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1434
and "Gordon" Liu Chia-Hui/Liu Chia-Liang and Yuen Woo-ping and "Sammo" Hung Kam-bo

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#38

Post by tommy_leazaq » January 23rd, 2020, 2:59 pm

1. Camp de Thiaroye 8/10
2. Wild Growth 7/10
3. Respiro 7/10
4. Drifting Life 7/10

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#39

Post by Gorro » January 23rd, 2020, 5:03 pm

1. Camp de Thiaroye
2. Respiro
3. Chun hua meng lu
4. Samorastiniki

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#40

Post by Mario Gaborović » January 23rd, 2020, 10:18 pm

1. Image Camp de Thiaroye 56-16
2. Image Respiro 33-39
3. Image Samorastniki 30-42
4. Image Chun hua meng lu 25-47

3.5 days left.

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